All need to watch the movie Concusion. I just watched it. It has changed my perspective on football. My son will focus on basketball, baseball and golf. It is a must see. It will open up a lot of eyes. I have lost interest in watching football- especially the NFL. I think this film will have a big effect on the game.

Be wary of letting them ride a bike too. That's the top cause of concussions that I found. Among organized sports: football, ice hockey, soccer, the boys and girls lacrosse. Getting whacked by the basket I guess. Rugby concussions are soring too. I imagine it's like most bad things, the numbers or soring because more or being recognized and reported.

Pretty much any physical activity risks an injury of some sort. Everyone has to draw their line. When I pulled a muscle getting out of bed I knew I'd made "middle age."

Had head trauma twice as a player. Had a 45 minute blackout about 10 minutes after the hit. The second time I saw stars and was knocked out. A guy on my team was a RB that was Ohio POY. His only concussion occurred not in FB, but playing BB. He was going up on a fast break layup and had his legs cut out from underneath resulting in his head slamming on the wooden floor. I also saw a friend fracture his skull during an college intramural soccer match. Saw plenty of guys get beaned in the head playing baseball. There is an associated risk with just about any sport. X games anybody?

Believe me guys - this is a hard pill for me to swallow. I am one of the biggest football fans around - especially UT. My son and I recently went to the Boca bowl, I have been a season ticket holder for about 15 years. before seeing this movie - UT football was my number one hobby. The arguments from the few posters are not an apples to apples comparison. I think we have all suffered a concussion at some point in our life - from sports, screwing around, etc.. I know I have. There is a major difference between playing football over many years and an occasional concussion or head trauma from other sports or incidents. Football by its nature is a repetitive impact sport - that produces cumulative head trauma. Much of this trauma goes undetected and is not classified as a concussion. The film showcases the many NFL players that have died early in life and many committing suicide because of CTE. This is a serious issue. Would anyone like to talk to the widows and children of these families that have been devastated by CTE and say, "well that could have been caused by falling off their bike when they were 10 - its not the football." Science has proven that it is caused by football. It is estimated that 28% of NFL players will have cognitive impairment, including CTE after playing football. The movie showcased the heartbreaking death of Mike Webster - lineman for the Steelers, who died at 50. It was estimated, in the film, that over his playing career he sustained over 70,000 impacts to his head. these were not all concussions. Like I said earlier, these create a cumulative impairment to the brain that overwhelms the body/s natural healing ability. Linemen are likely most susceptible, since they are engaged on every play. So the arguments about falling off a bike is not even in the same universe. If your child had the potential to induce 70,000 traumas to his brain over a 20 year period doing something would you let him do it? I know my answer.

I talked with another person who watched the film. This person considers NFL players gladiators and almost as dispensable - only out there for our entertainment. Well as a father, I can assure you...that shocked me and makes me very sad. These players are sons, they are fathers, cousins, uncles and grandsons. I don't ever want to hear that again. I hope you all have the opportunity to see the film, get educated, and make your own decision. I wish you all well. I love our Rockets as much as all of you. I just feel a different today about football than I did yesterday. I am ready to play some Golf with my son!

Golf Digest reported in 2010, 40,000 golfers were admitted to ER's annually for injuries while playing. Most of these injuries were head trauma due to golf balls and flying club heads.(I'm sure with golf being less popular six years later the numbers are down).

I have not seen the movie, but I would caution you two things.........first don't take what is portrayed in the movie and think that is still the way it is, and second don't mistake the NFL with, youth, high school, or even college football.

One of the biggest issues right now is that the players in the NFL are bigger, faster, and stronger than ever before. Their collisions are monsterous. (sp?) The players in the NFL are the top 1.6% of college players make it to the NFL, so we are talking the absolute biggest, fastest, and strongest players from college. That is why you rarely see the same kind of hits in college that you do on Sundays in the NFL.

It is true that many concussions were going undetected or ignored for a long time. That day is over. Coaches have to go through a lot of training on concussion awareness and it is stressed to always error on the side of caution.

In five years of coaching at the youth level I have not had a player on my team receive a concussion. It is stressed to keep the head out of the play and they are taught how. They must master this before they are allowed to do any contact drills, PERIOD! In that 5 year time I had one kid that I did hold out of the rest of practice just because he hit his head on the ground a bit hard and I didn't want to take any chances. Just one time this has happened in 5 years.

You mention that playing football is different from an occasional concussion or head trauma in other sports or incidents. Well, what sports are you talking about? Football is not the sport with the most injuries.....not even second. If you only look at youth, high school, and college (taking the NFL out of the picture), football does not have the most concussions of any sport anymore either. In the last 3 years, sports that have more include cheerleading (no joke) and boxing.

I can assure you that a concussion in any sport or other type of incident is a serious matter. Once you have a concussion, no matter how it happened, you are more prone to have another one. Obviously, the severity of the concussion plays into that. Where the NFL got into trouble, and I suspect that is what is being portrayed in this movie as well, is that they did not take it serious enough and they let players play with concussions, and when they sat them out they did not sit them out long enough before coming back. Things are different now. Whether a player actually had a concussion or not, if one was suspected there is a certain protocol that you have to go through to get back to playing. That includes a time period of activity with no contact. Depending on the severity of the concussion, it could take a week to as long as a year or more. And in some rare cases doctor's will tell players they should no longer play again......especially if they have had 2 or more concussions.

Another thought to consider. In five years of coaching at the youth level I have only seen two bad injuries. My first year a kid broke his wrist when he landed awkwardly on his hand. This year a kid broke his ankle while making a tackle. Youth football is not even close to being the sport with the most injuries at the youth level. Cheerleading has the most severe injuries at the youth level.

Yes, the NFL is a violent sport. I'm not sure how to fix it to be honest. We're not just talking about head trauma with the NFL. These are the top athletes and they cause major collisions. But remember that much less than 1% of all kids playing youth football make it to the NFL. Less than 1% of high school football players make it to the NFL. Only 1.6% of college football players make it to the NFL. My son plays youth football. I know he's not good enough to play in the NFL, but his chances of making it there would be very, very slim anyway. And to be honest, I don't think he would want to play in the NFL. He knows how violent it is at that level. But I'm not going to keep my son out of youth football because of the NFL. Heck, he also plays baseball and got hit in the head by a pitch this last season. That was the most terrifying event I've had to witness in his youth sports days to this point. A fastball coming in at 65-70 mph and hitting you in the head (baseball helmets do less to cushion a blow than football helmets) is no joke. Let me tell you.

The one thing that has surprised me is that football gets a bad rap about head trauma, but no one talks about head trauma in boxing, professional wrestling, or MMA. Head trauma is a more serious issue in those sports.

First of all, don't make your decisions on something that's been embellished in Hollywood. Yes, there's factual information in the movie, but with most movies, there's a lot of information that's made up.

Here's a very interesting read from the perspective of a man that's been around football all his life, including here in NW Ohio.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/article/201.../160109758

I actually disagree with Nehlen though. Pee-wee football has the least amount of injuries per player involved then any level of football. Also, at the pee-wee age is when you want to start the good habits with the kids. Keeping the head completely out of the game on both offense and defense. Proper tackling fundamentals, etc. And it is scientifically known that younger kids learn faster than older kids. Many people underestimate how much an 8 or 9 year old can learn. Fact is, an 8 or 9 year old can learn the same concepts that a 12 or 13 year old can, and they usually learn the same concepts faster. I'm talking about things like pulling guards and tackles, running the option, etc. If they can learn those things, they can learn how to play the game of football safely.....and then it is etched in their memory by the time they are playing freshman ball. Instead of trying to learn proper break down, head placement, hip placement, etc. as a freshman in high school.

I hear the arguments. The facts are the facts - it is science. It is proven and it can't be argued. Excessive head trauma caused by playing football causes CTE and other cognitive impairments to football players. Remember that CTE is not detected until death and only when an autopsy is performed. The fact is that the traumas do not start in the NFL - they are perpetuated at that level. The effects are cumulative over the course of a career. We are not arguing the number of accidents, as some posters have stated that other sports may have more injuries, etc... The effects of CTE and other neurological issues will not show up statistically. The game is violent and the brain is the recipient of the trauma. One only need to apply physics and look at the anatomy of the brain. The human body was not designed for the high speed and forceful, repetitive impacts that are sustained and absorbed in football. Some species of animals have support "safety belts" built into their craniums to protect the movement of the brain - not humans. In a roller coaster or fighter jet, a person withstands about 4.5g. In a car crash at 25 miles per hour, a test dummy hits the windshield at 100g. In football the majority of impacts fall between 20g and 25g. But hits of 50g to 120g are common, and some approach 200g.


From a Pop Warner Football Study: The average player in the study sustained 107 head impacts during the course of 9.4 practices and 4.7 games. Most of those hits were modest in force, as measured by sensors installed in the padding of helmets. But some topped 80 g's, similar to "some of the more severe impacts that college players experience, even though the youth players have less body mass and play at slower speeds," the authors wrote. Boys of grade-school and middle-school age often lack the neck strength of teenagers, among other factors that can make them vulnerable to injury.


I appreciate emotions and disagreements from fellow posters, but it really is not a subject of opinion. It is a fact and matter of science and physics.

Go Rockets!!!

Well, with the money you make in the NFL you don't need cognitive abilities, you can hire them.

I totally understand where you are coming from Rocket Man, but the facts can be skewed to either side of the arguments. Fact or science, things can be skewed. And don't forget that science is not always fact. As a matter of fact, no pun intended, the basis of science is theory....not fact.

That said, there should not be that kind of head impact! You do need to do your research and make sure your child is playing in the right league and for the right team and coaches. But seriously, there is no friggin' reason for head impacts and as a youth coach that cares about the kids it pisses me off when coaches are letting kids keep their heads in the play.....causing the head impact.

Fact is, CTE is a non-factor if there is no head impact. And there should not be head impact. Rugby is very similar to american football, except they don't wear all of the padding. They tackle and there is plenty of contact. But they know how to keep the head out of the play and therefore there is no head impact. There are plenty of football coaches adopting rugby style tackling techniques now because they really do get it right with the head out of the play. I teach rugby style tackling too, and I learned it from former USC HC and current Seattle Seahawks HC Pete Carroll. He teaches rugby style tackling and it really does keep the head out of the play. In fact, his players do plenty of tackling drills with no pads (nor helmet) on because it is a very safe tackling style.

(01-07-2016 11:11 PM)Rocket Man Wrote:  I hear the arguments. The facts are the facts - it is science. It is proven and it can't be argued. Excessive head trauma caused by playing football causes CTE and other cognitive impairments to football players. Remember that CTE is not detected until death and only when an autopsy is performed. The fact is that the traumas do not start in the NFL - they are perpetuated at that level. The effects are cumulative over the course of a career. We are not arguing the number of accidents, as some posters have stated that other sports may have more injuries, etc... The effects of CTE and other neurological issues will not show up statistically. The game is violent and the brain is the recipient of the trauma. One only need to apply physics and look at the anatomy of the brain. The human body was not designed for the high speed and forceful, repetitive impacts that are sustained and absorbed in football. Some species of animals have support "safety belts" built into their craniums to protect the movement of the brain - not humans. In a roller coaster or fighter jet, a person withstands about 4.5g. In a car crash at 25 miles per hour, a test dummy hits the windshield at 100g. In football the majority of impacts fall between 20g and 25g. But hits of 50g to 120g are common, and some approach 200g.


From a Pop Warner Football Study: The average player in the study sustained 107 head impacts during the course of 9.4 practices and 4.7 games. Most of those hits were modest in force, as measured by sensors installed in the padding of helmets. But some topped 80 g's, similar to "some of the more severe impacts that college players experience, even though the youth players have less body mass and play at slower speeds," the authors wrote. Boys of grade-school and middle-school age often lack the neck strength of teenagers, among other factors that can make them vulnerable to injury.


I appreciate emotions and disagreements from fellow posters, but it really is not a subject of opinion. It is a fact and matter of science and physics.

Go Rockets!!!

Interesting enough, long term anabolic steroid usage causes the depletion of syllo-inositol which leads to the build up of beta-amyloid protein in the brain. Beta-amyloid protein plays a role in the development of Alzheimers and other dementias. Approximately 3 million males in the US have used
anabolic steroids, about 1/3 with some type of long term dependence.

All science studies agree? There's a new one. Of course the results of studies can be debated. Studies result in evidence, they are not "proofs."


I think this is good science, don't get me wrong but everything is still about degrees. I don't think we're to the point where we are going to ban football at any level but it's good information to use when looking at training and playing methods. I means, seriously, we used to play as kids without pads and there was no pulling up on the hits. A mis-hit, the wrong hit, even the right hit to the wrong person can cause damage. It's not about absolutes, it's about degrees.

It's good information to use for making personal choices. Everyone has to determine their own line inthe sand but there's even more evidense that kids and adults make it through years and years of football without these injuries. Why some and not others, is where the research should be looking.

Football, especially public HS football, may well be extinct in 15 years due to litigation and insurance issues. I am bracing for this eventuality and I see it as more likely than not. This scenario then endangers college football and the NFL is then dead. Anyone who thinks that this cannot happen is naive.

(01-08-2016 03:24 PM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  Football, especially public HS football, may well be extinct in 15 years due to litigation and insurance issues. I am bracing for this eventuality and I see it as more likely than not. This scenario then endangers college football and the NFL is then dead. Anyone who thinks that this cannot happen is naive.

Maybe, especially at the high school level like you said. But in it's place would be a bunch of club or AAU teams that competed to 18u.

I don't see college football or the NFL going away.....certainly not in 15 years. There is too much money being made at those two levels, and sadly this world is obsessed with money.

Right now there is a really big push in this country against American football, yet American style football is becoming more and more popular in other countries. Our American society is one that wants to sue someone at the first chance they get, and there is a lot of political correctness. Can't have a Christmas party in a public elementary school anymore....have to call it a Holiday party and can't sing any Christmas songs that mention Christmas or Jesus. Can't have a Halloween party and dress up in a costume at a public elementary school anymore. Everyone gets a trophy just for participating, even if they went 0-10. And the list goes on and on.

What's interesting is that the "soccer moms" are attacking football but not other sports that are even more violent. Take boxing for instance. In boxing you are actually encouraged to hit the other guy in the face. Last time I checked, the face is part of the head. In MMA, you hit and kick the opponent in the head.

And let's not forget that Australian football and rugby are similar to American football in the type of contact, yet those sports don't have all of the padding/equipment that American football uses, and they have less injuries. Those sports have figured out what American football has to, and will eventually figure out.