(04-27-2015 09:38 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  The issue is with marginal development of talent.

If a player has any inner drive to them whatsoever and they play 3-4 years of DI ball then obviously they will develop/improve mentally and physically. That's just common sense.

But are their talents being maximized? Are they being pushed to be better than they are? Etc.

To me, the effort should be 50/50 - the players should have work ethic, but the coach should be the one pushing their improvement.

From what I've read over the course of the past few years though, it seems there is a contingent that wants to lay the full 100% at the feet of the players.

I just don't believe in that. Some do.

It is what it is.

The smug one has arrived.

(04-27-2015 10:47 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The smug one has arrived.

Introducing yourself in a thread?

Definitely a mix of both. We need to recruit better players and develop the ones we get.
The first is solely on the coach. Development IMO is a shared responsibility between player and coach.

(04-27-2015 10:32 AM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 09:38 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  The issue is with marginal development of talent.

If a player has any inner drive to them whatsoever and they play 3-4 years of DI ball then obviously they will develop/improve mentally and physically. That's just common sense.

But are their talents being maximized? Are they being pushed to be better than they are? Etc.

To me, the effort should be 50/50 - the players should have work ethic, but the coach should be the one pushing their improvement.

From what I've read over the course of the past few years though, it seems there is a contingent that wants to lay the full 100% at the feet of the players.

I just don't believe in that. Some do.

It is what it is.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. There are many here who look at a kid in high school and see his rank on the national level and think that will translate to excellence at the college level. When that doesn't happen the only other deciding factor in their minds is that the coach is crap. There are so many other factors that determine whether a kid will shine in college. We've talked about this a bunch but one of the reasons is being "the man" on your high school or AAU team won't necessarily translate to being "the man" on your college team. Many kids are disillusioned into thinking they will waltz right into college and be a lottery pick in the next NBA draft. They don't care that there are already upperclassmen who have college level game experience that already puts them ahead of freshmen.

Another problem is having so many "friends/family" in your head telling you what you need to do to get paid. All teams have this problem to some degree. Memphis has to deal with two parts of this however:

1) a young coach who is inexperienced with handling player personalities (as much as some of us want to believe that a player has to listen to the coach, a coach also has to be a psychologist and listen to his players and then get them to do what he wants. Calipari is a genius at this.)

2) a lot more local players who go back to their neighborhoods every weekend, or every day. The kids have literally dozens of people giving them advice. That would confuse anybody.

I don't think any of us believe that Pastner is on the level of Izzo, K, Williams, or Brown, but he does understand the game very well and knows X's and O's but is too arrogant to admit point #1 above.

Some here have said that he needs an enforcer on his staff - that he coddles his players too much. I believe there is a lot of truth to that... both points. He needs to figure that out. All the great coaches know how to do that.

I think he also judges his players too quickly IN GAME SITUATIONS. If they showed the chutzpah in practice, give them a little longer leash in the games.

^^^^BOOM^^^^^very nice convo guys! It's gr8 to see the nuances /idiosyncrasies about the game being discussed here.....those intangibles, I believe will come to CJP through sheer experience. ....I just think he needs 6-8 more years of ojt before the caliber of job like Memphis & where we need to be to compete for P5 status. ......

(04-27-2015 09:38 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  The issue is with marginal development of talent.

If a player has any inner drive to them whatsoever and they play 3-4 years of DI ball then obviously they will develop/improve mentally and physically. That's just common sense.

But are their talents being maximized? Are they being pushed to be better than they are? Etc.

To me, the effort should be 50/50 - the players should have work ethic, but the coach should be the one pushing their improvement.

From what I've read over the course of the past few years though, it seems there is a contingent that wants to lay the full 100% at the feet of the players.

I just don't believe in that. Some do.

It is what it is.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(04-27-2015 11:03 AM)Mick Light Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 10:47 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The smug one has arrived.

Introducing yourself in a thread?

Buuuuuuuaaaaaahhhhhhhhaaaaaaaa

so the Warriors might win the D-League and the NBA?

That'd get somebody a raise!

(04-27-2015 10:32 AM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 09:38 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  The issue is with marginal development of talent.

If a player has any inner drive to them whatsoever and they play 3-4 years of DI ball then obviously they will develop/improve mentally and physically. That's just common sense.

But are their talents being maximized? Are they being pushed to be better than they are? Etc.

To me, the effort should be 50/50 - the players should have work ethic, but the coach should be the one pushing their improvement.

From what I've read over the course of the past few years though, it seems there is a contingent that wants to lay the full 100% at the feet of the players.

I just don't believe in that. Some do.

It is what it is.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. There are many here who look at a kid in high school and see his rank on the national level and think that will translate to excellence at the college level. When that doesn't happen the only other deciding factor in their minds is that the coach is crap. There are so many other factors that determine whether a kid will shine in college. We've talked about this a bunch but one of the reasons is being "the man" on your high school or AAU team won't necessarily translate to being "the man" on your college team. Many kids are disillusioned into thinking they will waltz right into college and be a lottery pick in the next NBA draft. They don't care that there are already upperclassmen who have college level game experience that already puts them ahead of freshmen.

Another problem is having so many "friends/family" in your head telling you what you need to do to get paid. All teams have this problem to some degree. Memphis has to deal with two parts of this however:

1) a young coach who is inexperienced with handling player personalities (as much as some of us want to believe that a player has to listen to the coach, a coach also has to be a psychologist and listen to his players and then get them to do what he wants. Calipari is a genius at this.)

2) a lot more local players who go back to their neighborhoods every weekend, or every day. The kids have literally dozens of people giving them advice. That would confuse anybody.

I don't think any of us believe that Pastner is on the level of Izzo, K, Williams, or Brown, but he does understand the game very well and knows X's and O's but is too arrogant to admit point #1 above.

Some here have said that he needs an enforcer on his staff - that he coddles his players too much. I believe there is a lot of truth to that... both points. He needs to figure that out. All the great coaches know how to do that.

I think he also judges his players too quickly IN GAME SITUATIONS. If they showed the chutzpah in practice, give them a little longer leash in the games.

Agreed the way Pastner substitutes it doesn't instill confidence in his players.

Again for someone who is supremely positive it sure doesn't come across in his actions during a game. You screw up you sit...If you are truly supremely positive you talk to a kid tell him you believe in him and you put your BEST players in the game (He should have a feeling who they are).

Seems at times he thinks everyone ,except 1 or 2, guys are interchangeable.

(04-27-2015 02:29 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 10:32 AM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 09:38 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  The issue is with marginal development of talent.

If a player has any inner drive to them whatsoever and they play 3-4 years of DI ball then obviously they will develop/improve mentally and physically. That's just common sense.

But are their talents being maximized? Are they being pushed to be better than they are? Etc.

To me, the effort should be 50/50 - the players should have work ethic, but the coach should be the one pushing their improvement.

From what I've read over the course of the past few years though, it seems there is a contingent that wants to lay the full 100% at the feet of the players.

I just don't believe in that. Some do.

It is what it is.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. There are many here who look at a kid in high school and see his rank on the national level and think that will translate to excellence at the college level. When that doesn't happen the only other deciding factor in their minds is that the coach is crap. There are so many other factors that determine whether a kid will shine in college. We've talked about this a bunch but one of the reasons is being "the man" on your high school or AAU team won't necessarily translate to being "the man" on your college team. Many kids are disillusioned into thinking they will waltz right into college and be a lottery pick in the next NBA draft. They don't care that there are already upperclassmen who have college level game experience that already puts them ahead of freshmen.

Another problem is having so many "friends/family" in your head telling you what you need to do to get paid. All teams have this problem to some degree. Memphis has to deal with two parts of this however:

1) a young coach who is inexperienced with handling player personalities (as much as some of us want to believe that a player has to listen to the coach, a coach also has to be a psychologist and listen to his players and then get them to do what he wants. Calipari is a genius at this.)

2) a lot more local players who go back to their neighborhoods every weekend, or every day. The kids have literally dozens of people giving them advice. That would confuse anybody.

I don't think any of us believe that Pastner is on the level of Izzo, K, Williams, or Brown, but he does understand the game very well and knows X's and O's but is too arrogant to admit point #1 above.

Some here have said that he needs an enforcer on his staff - that he coddles his players too much. I believe there is a lot of truth to that... both points. He needs to figure that out. All the great coaches know how to do that.

I think he also judges his players too quickly IN GAME SITUATIONS. If they showed the chutzpah in practice, give them a little longer leash in the games.

Agreed the way Pastner substitutes it doesn't instill confidence in his players.

Again for someone who is supremely positive it sure doesn't come across in his actions during a game. You screw up you sit...If you are truly supremely positive you talk to a kid tell him you believe in him and you put your BEST players in the game (He should have a feeling who they are).

Seems at times he thinks everyone ,except 1 or 2, guys are interchangeable.

Let me simplify it for you. We weren't very good last year. Coach K might have missed the tourney with last year's team.

(04-27-2015 02:40 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Let me simplify it for you. We weren't very good last year. Coach K might have missed the tourney with last year's team.

I wouldn't got that far, amigo.

Izzo lost to Texas Southern at home in December, at Nebraska in January, and was in the Final Four a few months later.

Congrats to EWill. Let's keep this on how awesome Elliott Williams is.

Not everything is a referendum on the HC.

Thanks all!

(04-27-2015 02:52 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 02:40 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Let me simplify it for you. We weren't very good last year. Coach K might have missed the tourney with last year's team.

I wouldn't got that far, amigo.

Izzo lost to Texas Southern at home in December, at Nebraska in January, and was in the Final Four a few months later.

The team last year as assembled could never meet the expectations of our fan base regardless of the coach. JP put the team together so he has to take the heat for that.

There's a whole lotta Tiger in that feller!
http://santacruz.dleague.nba.com/

(04-27-2015 12:59 PM)fsquid Wrote:  so the Warriors might win the D-League and the NBA?

The Warriors aren't winning it this year.

(04-27-2015 03:04 PM)tigerpride96 Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 12:59 PM)fsquid Wrote:  so the Warriors might win the D-League and the NBA?

The Warriors aren't winning it this year.

they have a shot

The intellectual dishonesty in this thread is frustrating, but not unexpected.

(04-26-2015 10:39 PM)SFB Tiger Wrote:  Woot woot.

#freeJamammy

(04-27-2015 07:13 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Williams had more potential on his Tiger team than anyone . It was so disappointing seeing his digression into a D- League player. It happens with player after player. Yet some outsider from The U of Arizona, who had only been with our program for one year before becoming the HC & continues to fail with superior talent.

Not to burst everyone's bubble but he had no business declaring early. Now he is where he is. This is going to kill all but the elite programs.

(04-26-2015 10:39 PM)SFB Tiger Wrote:  Woot woot.

#freejamammy

(05-01-2015 09:17 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 10:39 PM)SFB Tiger Wrote:  Woot woot.

#freejamammy

#snitchesgetstitches