I have never given even one thought on game day to the academic ranking or religious preference of my school's opponent. I think both are exaggerated fodder for off-season discussion.

Liberty is positioning itself as a de facto FBS program playing FCS with the move to pay COA across the board and I suspect not many will follow suit at the FCS level. They will keep spending hundreds of millions on facilities and will use the COA advantage to eventually convince an FBS conference to admit them.

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Dont know who your referring to but thats been my argument, although I havent been in this discussion much.

To answer the question about recruiting..........I dont doubt that Liberty can get players good enough to be competitive in FCS, and I dont doubt that Liberty has signed some quality players in the past. My concern would be that Liberty is a school that many of the football players that are FBS caliber just wont want to go to a Religious private type of school. You will find some. Like Furman, they have to recruit a certain kind of kid that in Furmans case is academic enough and wants to go for academic purposes much of the time. Furman does a good job getting those guys but probably would have a hard time doing it at the FBS level. Liberty will have to find players that want to come to their school for reasons, much of the time, because of their christian belief or religious purpose. It is just a harder sell. You will get some, but can you get enough good players to be competitive at the FBS level. I dont think they can. Maybe Im wrong.

(04-14-2015 10:33 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Dont know who your referring to but thats been my argument, although I havent been in this discussion much.

To answer the question about recruiting..........I dont doubt that Liberty can get players good enough to be competitive in FCS, and I dont doubt that Liberty has signed some quality players in the past. My concern would be that Liberty is a school that many of the football players that are FBS caliber just wont want to go to a Religious private type of school. You will find some. Like Furman, they have to recruit a certain kind of kid that in Furmans case is academic enough and wants to go for academic purposes much of the time. Furman does a good job getting those guys but probably would have a hard time doing it at the FBS level. Liberty will have to find players that want to come to their school for reasons, much of the time, because of their christian belief or religious purpose. It is just a harder sell. You will get some, but can you get enough good players to be competitive at the FBS level. I dont think they can. Maybe Im wrong.

Exactly, what has Liberty done in the Big South? A few first round crash outs in the NCAA basketball tournament. One FCS playoff appearance.

If Liberty is an appropriate expansion candidate, why not Sam Houston State or Stephen F Austin? Both of them are in the footprint and have shown more competitiveness than LU.

(04-14-2015 10:33 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Dont know who your referring to but thats been my argument, although I havent been in this discussion much.

To answer the question about recruiting..........I dont doubt that Liberty can get players good enough to be competitive in FCS, and I dont doubt that Liberty has signed some quality players in the past. My concern would be that Liberty is a school that many of the football players that are FBS caliber just wont want to go to a Religious private type of school. You will find some. Like Furman, they have to recruit a certain kind of kid that in Furmans case is academic enough and wants to go for academic purposes much of the time. Furman does a good job getting those guys but probably would have a hard time doing it at the FBS level. Liberty will have to find players that want to come to their school for reasons, much of the time, because of their christian belief or religious purpose. It is just a harder sell. You will get some, but can you get enough good players to be competitive at the FBS level. I dont think they can. Maybe Im wrong.

You made the comment that you don't think Liberty will be able to recruit well enough which is fine on its own. Others make the same comments but also voice their displeasure about Liberty out spending everyone and buying wins. They want their cake and to eat it too.

I can understand some arguments against Liberty and there are plenty of legitimate points but once people start to contradict themselves and make up things then it just devolves into hate. I am not accusing you of going down that road, just it usually doesn't take long with the people on both sides of the argument for it to get to that point.

(04-14-2015 10:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 10:33 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Dont know who your referring to but thats been my argument, although I havent been in this discussion much.

To answer the question about recruiting..........I dont doubt that Liberty can get players good enough to be competitive in FCS, and I dont doubt that Liberty has signed some quality players in the past. My concern would be that Liberty is a school that many of the football players that are FBS caliber just wont want to go to a Religious private type of school. You will find some. Like Furman, they have to recruit a certain kind of kid that in Furmans case is academic enough and wants to go for academic purposes much of the time. Furman does a good job getting those guys but probably would have a hard time doing it at the FBS level. Liberty will have to find players that want to come to their school for reasons, much of the time, because of their christian belief or religious purpose. It is just a harder sell. You will get some, but can you get enough good players to be competitive at the FBS level. I dont think they can. Maybe Im wrong.

Exactly, what has Liberty done in the Big South? A few first round crash outs in the NCAA basketball tournament. One FCS playoff appearance.

If Liberty is an appropriate expansion candidate, why not Sam Houston State or Stephen F Austin? Both of them are in the footprint and have shown more competitiveness than LU.

Because neither Sam Houston or SF Austin put butts in the seats. I've watched both play in the FCS playoffs with less then 15,000 in the stands. Sorry, but some of you guys need to stop pushing programs that can't get enough people buying into their football programs to suggest they should be FBS candidates.

(04-14-2015 10:21 AM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  And that's a sound argument. An issue Liberty will have to overcome. Possibly be making concessions to cap spending at a certain amount.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

I think some effort to make sure Liberty remains in a similar budgetary universe as the publics....and agreement to voluntarily release info that the publics have to release under FOIA would remove my objections.

That's reasonable. Liberty will bend over backwards to be good conference mates.

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(04-14-2015 11:15 AM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  That's reasonable. Liberty will bend over backwards to be good conference mates.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

heh....SBC should ask your Big South mates about that.

(04-14-2015 10:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 10:33 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Dont know who your referring to but thats been my argument, although I havent been in this discussion much.

To answer the question about recruiting..........I dont doubt that Liberty can get players good enough to be competitive in FCS, and I dont doubt that Liberty has signed some quality players in the past. My concern would be that Liberty is a school that many of the football players that are FBS caliber just wont want to go to a Religious private type of school. You will find some. Like Furman, they have to recruit a certain kind of kid that in Furmans case is academic enough and wants to go for academic purposes much of the time. Furman does a good job getting those guys but probably would have a hard time doing it at the FBS level. Liberty will have to find players that want to come to their school for reasons, much of the time, because of their christian belief or religious purpose. It is just a harder sell. You will get some, but can you get enough good players to be competitive at the FBS level. I dont think they can. Maybe Im wrong.

Exactly, what has Liberty done in the Big South? A few first round crash outs in the NCAA basketball tournament. One FCS playoff appearance.

If Liberty is an appropriate expansion candidate, why not Sam Houston State or Stephen F Austin? Both of them are in the footprint and have shown more competitiveness than LU.

Been champion or co champion in the Big South every year since 07 I believe, just beat App, and that playoff appearance was last years playoffs where they won a game. Like it or not they are trending up and will have a great shot at back to back Sun Belt wins after this season. The Big South was ranked #2 as well. Folks may not like them but they are a legit candidate and have been getting better. They are not my #1 pick but I would not be concerned with adding them.

(04-14-2015 11:01 AM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 10:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 10:33 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Dont know who your referring to but thats been my argument, although I havent been in this discussion much.

To answer the question about recruiting..........I dont doubt that Liberty can get players good enough to be competitive in FCS, and I dont doubt that Liberty has signed some quality players in the past. My concern would be that Liberty is a school that many of the football players that are FBS caliber just wont want to go to a Religious private type of school. You will find some. Like Furman, they have to recruit a certain kind of kid that in Furmans case is academic enough and wants to go for academic purposes much of the time. Furman does a good job getting those guys but probably would have a hard time doing it at the FBS level. Liberty will have to find players that want to come to their school for reasons, much of the time, because of their christian belief or religious purpose. It is just a harder sell. You will get some, but can you get enough good players to be competitive at the FBS level. I dont think they can. Maybe Im wrong.

Exactly, what has Liberty done in the Big South? A few first round crash outs in the NCAA basketball tournament. One FCS playoff appearance.

If Liberty is an appropriate expansion candidate, why not Sam Houston State or Stephen F Austin? Both of them are in the footprint and have shown more competitiveness than LU.

Because neither Sam Houston or SF Austin put butts in the seats. I've watched both play in the FCS playoffs with less then 15,000 in the stands. Sorry, but some of you guys need to stop pushing programs that can't get enough people buying into their football programs to suggest they should be FBS candidates.

unless it is a semi final game, playoff games for the most part have low attendance numbers, especially depending on which round. Especially if you get to a point in the playoffs where school has been let out for the semester, sometimes you only get 1 week to plan on your next game visit.

Now I say that, not knowing their regular season attendance, but I would weigh that much more than I would with playoff attendance numbers.

(04-14-2015 11:53 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 11:01 AM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 10:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 10:33 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Dont know who your referring to but thats been my argument, although I havent been in this discussion much.

To answer the question about recruiting..........I dont doubt that Liberty can get players good enough to be competitive in FCS, and I dont doubt that Liberty has signed some quality players in the past. My concern would be that Liberty is a school that many of the football players that are FBS caliber just wont want to go to a Religious private type of school. You will find some. Like Furman, they have to recruit a certain kind of kid that in Furmans case is academic enough and wants to go for academic purposes much of the time. Furman does a good job getting those guys but probably would have a hard time doing it at the FBS level. Liberty will have to find players that want to come to their school for reasons, much of the time, because of their christian belief or religious purpose. It is just a harder sell. You will get some, but can you get enough good players to be competitive at the FBS level. I dont think they can. Maybe Im wrong.

Exactly, what has Liberty done in the Big South? A few first round crash outs in the NCAA basketball tournament. One FCS playoff appearance.

If Liberty is an appropriate expansion candidate, why not Sam Houston State or Stephen F Austin? Both of them are in the footprint and have shown more competitiveness than LU.

Because neither Sam Houston or SF Austin put butts in the seats. I've watched both play in the FCS playoffs with less then 15,000 in the stands. Sorry, but some of you guys need to stop pushing programs that can't get enough people buying into their football programs to suggest they should be FBS candidates.

unless it is a semi final game, playoff games for the most part have low attendance numbers, especially depending on which round. Especially if you get to a point in the playoffs where school has been let out for the semester, sometimes you only get 1 week to plan on your next game visit.

Now I say that, not knowing their regular season attendance, but I would weigh that much more than I would with playoff attendance numbers.

SHSU has problems putting fans in the stands period. I remember reading a lot of those complaints when they were making their first title run.

gotcha. As I said, I have no clue what their normal attendance numbers are. IMO, we shouldn't be considering anybody who averages less than 17k on a regular basis.

(04-14-2015 11:49 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 10:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 10:33 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Dont know who your referring to but thats been my argument, although I havent been in this discussion much.

To answer the question about recruiting..........I dont doubt that Liberty can get players good enough to be competitive in FCS, and I dont doubt that Liberty has signed some quality players in the past. My concern would be that Liberty is a school that many of the football players that are FBS caliber just wont want to go to a Religious private type of school. You will find some. Like Furman, they have to recruit a certain kind of kid that in Furmans case is academic enough and wants to go for academic purposes much of the time. Furman does a good job getting those guys but probably would have a hard time doing it at the FBS level. Liberty will have to find players that want to come to their school for reasons, much of the time, because of their christian belief or religious purpose. It is just a harder sell. You will get some, but can you get enough good players to be competitive at the FBS level. I dont think they can. Maybe Im wrong.

Exactly, what has Liberty done in the Big South? A few first round crash outs in the NCAA basketball tournament. One FCS playoff appearance.

If Liberty is an appropriate expansion candidate, why not Sam Houston State or Stephen F Austin? Both of them are in the footprint and have shown more competitiveness than LU.

Been champion or co champion in the Big South every year since 07 I believe, just beat App, and that playoff appearance was last years playoffs where they won a game. Like it or not they are trending up and will have a great shot at back to back Sun Belt wins after this season. The Big South was ranked #2 as well. Folks may not like them but they are a legit candidate and have been getting better. They are not my #1 pick but I would not be concerned with adding them.

Everyone trends up and down in college football. Look at Florida right now. I have no personal issue with Liberty. To be honest I dont really care who they put in, I just want GS to win. Yes they did beat an App team that was finding itself and probably wasnt very prepared for that particular game. Yes they have made some improvements over the past few seasons, but it still remains to be seen whether they can recruit successfully enough to be a consistent contender each year. Moving to FBS creates a whole different level of recruitment issues for them.

(04-14-2015 08:52 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:36 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

The thought process here does chase its own tail a bit.

The head scratcher is the question of how it hasn't translated to winning a lot at the FCS level.

Money will help you build facilities, but most of us have really nice facilities, so I'm not so concerned with your recruiting of players. I mean, Money can't buy you a past tradition of Winning - which imop, trumps $ on recruiting unless you are going to go SEC on us and pay your players (with cars, etc) under the table. And I'd hope your belief system holds you in check from actually cheating like that.

My concern on your $ stock pile is the ability to hire away our coaching staffs should any of them beat you over and over. "If you can't beat them, buy them" sort of thing. A well known coaching staff with a tradition of winning CAN give you a recruiting advantage.

For now, with the FCOA being offered - You should now have a recruiting advantage over a lot of FCS programs. With the right coaching staff, you should be able to dominate at that level. Let's see it! Go Flames! I wish you luck.

For what it's worth, I can't remember Liberty ever buying a coach from a conference rival or a Sun Belt coach. I wouldn't expect them to hire away a current coach of a conference member. I could happen under a perfect storm of circumstances.

Agreed... No offense to anyone, but if a school could "buy a coach" from another school I doubt it would be from a G5 school. Now a P5 school?! Definitely!

I think the fact that people keep using the can't recruit or compete card in reference to LU is interesting to me. There are so many FBS Conferences with existing schools that can't do this, and yet no one cares.

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Wait, we're limited to only one reason to be against admitting LU?!?

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

Tell App State that!

(04-14-2015 12:49 PM)ASUMountaineer Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

Wait, we're limited to only one reason to be against admitting LU?!?

You can have as many reasons as you want but if they contradict each other then you'll be the one who looks bad.

(04-14-2015 11:22 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 11:15 AM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  That's reasonable. Liberty will bend over backwards to be good conference mates.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

heh....SBC should ask your Big South mates about that.

Enlighten us all as to the problems the Big South has with us.

Do share.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App