(04-08-2015 10:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The biggest bowl problem for the ACC is the Orange Bowl. I still don't understand why the league had to pay the SEC and B1G any more than Notre Dame - or more than $5 million, for that matter!

I think it is the other way around. The amount paid tot he SEC and B1G were market value, the amount to be paid to ND was a discounted value, since it all goes to one team. Similar to how ND did not receive the same amount as a conference champion under the old BCS system.

(04-08-2015 10:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Pod A: BC, Cuse, Pitt, ND

Pod B: UVA, Vtech, UNC, Duke

Pod C: NC state, Wake, Cincy, Lville

Pod D: Clem, Gtech, FSU, Miami

Format 7-1, rotate the pods every year, i.e. A/b, A/c, A/d for a 3 year cycle. For ND, you could strike a deal where the play the 7 division games and bring in army/navy or byu to play the 1 the miss.

Why do people bother making suggestions that include ND joining as a full member? Even worse, you throw in UC.

There is already a general consensus on a divisionless format with 3 permanent rivals and two 5-team rotating "pods" of sorts.

(04-08-2015 10:56 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 10:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The biggest bowl problem for the ACC is the Orange Bowl. I still don't understand why the league had to pay the SEC and B1G any more than Notre Dame - or more than $5 million, for that matter!

I think it is the other way around. The amount paid tot he SEC and B1G were market value, the amount to be paid to ND was a discounted value, since it all goes to one team. Similar to how ND did not receive the same amount as a conference champion under the old BCS system.

Why wasn't "market value" $1 more than the next highest paying bowl - i.e. the access bowls, which pay $4 million? Perhaps the ACC didn't know how much the access bowls were going to pay, but surely they could've estimated better than $27.5 million? Or is someone suggesting that the 3rd best SEC team would rather play in the Peach bowl for $4 million instead of taking $5M to play in the Orange? Yo, I don't think so!

(04-08-2015 12:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 10:56 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 10:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The biggest bowl problem for the ACC is the Orange Bowl. I still don't understand why the league had to pay the SEC and B1G any more than Notre Dame - or more than $5 million, for that matter!

I think it is the other way around. The amount paid tot he SEC and B1G were market value, the amount to be paid to ND was a discounted value, since it all goes to one team. Similar to how ND did not receive the same amount as a conference champion under the old BCS system.

Why wasn't "market value" $1 more than the next highest paying bowl - i.e. the access bowls, which pay $4 million? Perhaps the ACC didn't know how much the access bowls were going to pay, but surely they could've estimated better than $27.5 million? Or is someone suggesting that the 3rd best SEC team would rather play in the Peach bowl for $4 million instead of taking $5M to play in the Orange? Yo, I don't think so!

Mark is on the mark.

(04-07-2015 10:50 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Notre Dame is a big asset.

1. Notre Dame is not taking bowls anymore than Florida State is taking bowls from other members. These bowl contracts were done with the knowledge that Notre Dame would be available in the pool. That means the ACC (as long as it negotiated properly) either got better bowls and/or more money from the bowls specifically because the Irish are involved. Some years they'll take one of those bowls and some years they won't. In the end, it will likely balance out.

I know that feels a little counter-intuitive, but you can play it out with anyone else as well. Imagine Florida State negotiated it's own bowl deals and was not part of the ACC deal. Do you think everyone else would be better off as Florida State usually gets a good bowl?

A. Which bowls did Notre Dame bring into the fold that weren't already there and wouldn't have signed with the ACC anyway? The only bowls added to the fold were the Pinstripe, Bitcoin, and Quick Lane. Bitcoin is not a full time slot.

B. Unlike Notre Dame Florida State is a football playing member of this conference. They play a minimum of eight conference games and gets assigned to bowls based upon their conference record.

Quote:2. The 5 home and home games are a big asset. Notre Dame is not playing Michigan, the series with Purdue looks to be ending, and Michigan State is probably going to eventually go away too, but Notre Dame is playing almost half it's schedule with ACC home and home games. Some of those are teams it never would have scheduled those type of games with.

A big asset to who? And why do I care who Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State are playing? Do you honestly think that Michigan and Michigan State are not going to find high profile games to replace the ND games? Do you honestly think that Clemson needs ND to have a high profile OOC game? We originally had Ole Miss at home on 10/3/2015 before our stupid conference made us drop the game....sitting right here, right now which matchup would be more beneficial for a playoff resume? Both would be sellouts, both would be premium priced tickets, but only one is coming off a Top 20 season.

http://www.theclemsoninsider.com/2015/04...to-change/

Quote:The Atlantic Coast Conference has no intention of changing the current way it runs its football championship.

Despite reports on Tuesday citing the ACC is looking at a three-division league should deregulation occur, the conference is staying steadfast it plans to keep things as it is. Multiple sources told The Clemson Insider.com Wednesday the ACC just wants to have the option in place.

Quote:The ACC has been out in front of deregulation of the championship game, and last year publically announced it supported the idea and was pushing for it. However, the league has no desire to change its parameters at this time. Sources say deregulation is not on the agenda when the conference’s coaches and athletic administrators gather for its annual spring meetings next Tuesday and Wednesday.

On Tuesday, CBSsports.com reported chairman of the new NCAA Football Oversight Committee, Bob Bowlsby, said, “There’s some belief that the ACC would play three divisions, have two highest-ranked teams play in postseason.”

“I have no idea where these comments came from,” a spokesman for the ACC said. “We have not talked about breaking into three divisions.”

Thanks for that link Kap!

My favorite quote from the link about the ACC and its current state regarding football:

Quote:“They have the best of both worlds right now. It doesn’t make sense to mess that up,”

(04-08-2015 07:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 10:50 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Notre Dame is a big asset.

1. Notre Dame is not taking bowls anymore than Florida State is taking bowls from other members. These bowl contracts were done with the knowledge that Notre Dame would be available in the pool. That means the ACC (as long as it negotiated properly) either got better bowls and/or more money from the bowls specifically because the Irish are involved. Some years they'll take one of those bowls and some years they won't. In the end, it will likely balance out.

I know that feels a little counter-intuitive, but you can play it out with anyone else as well. Imagine Florida State negotiated it's own bowl deals and was not part of the ACC deal. Do you think everyone else would be better off as Florida State usually gets a good bowl?

A. Which bowls did Notre Dame bring into the fold that weren't already there and wouldn't have signed with the ACC anyway? The only bowls added to the fold were the Pinstripe, Bitcoin, and Quick Lane. Bitcoin is not a full time slot.

B. Unlike Notre Dame Florida State is a football playing member of this conference. They play a minimum of eight conference games and gets assigned to bowls based upon their conference record.

Quote:2. The 5 home and home games are a big asset. Notre Dame is not playing Michigan, the series with Purdue looks to be ending, and Michigan State is probably going to eventually go away too, but Notre Dame is playing almost half it's schedule with ACC home and home games. Some of those are teams it never would have scheduled those type of games with.

A big asset to who? And why do I care who Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State are playing? Do you honestly think that Michigan and Michigan State are not going to find high profile games to replace the ND games? Do you honestly think that Clemson needs ND to have a high profile OOC game? We originally had Ole Miss at home on 10/3/2015 before our stupid conference made us drop the game....sitting right here, right now which matchup would be more beneficial for a playoff resume? Both would be sellouts, both would be premium priced tickets, but only one is coming off a Top 20 season.

Maybe to most of the other schools in the ACC? ND means sellouts and national TV appearances for them.

Maybe they wanted this and that was more important to them than what Kaplony or maybe even Clemson thought about it.

Wait. Clemson voted FOR ND's partial membership.

I guess that just leaves you?

(04-08-2015 09:49 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 07:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 10:50 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Notre Dame is a big asset.

1. Notre Dame is not taking bowls anymore than Florida State is taking bowls from other members. These bowl contracts were done with the knowledge that Notre Dame would be available in the pool. That means the ACC (as long as it negotiated properly) either got better bowls and/or more money from the bowls specifically because the Irish are involved. Some years they'll take one of those bowls and some years they won't. In the end, it will likely balance out.

I know that feels a little counter-intuitive, but you can play it out with anyone else as well. Imagine Florida State negotiated it's own bowl deals and was not part of the ACC deal. Do you think everyone else would be better off as Florida State usually gets a good bowl?

A. Which bowls did Notre Dame bring into the fold that weren't already there and wouldn't have signed with the ACC anyway? The only bowls added to the fold were the Pinstripe, Bitcoin, and Quick Lane. Bitcoin is not a full time slot.

B. Unlike Notre Dame Florida State is a football playing member of this conference. They play a minimum of eight conference games and gets assigned to bowls based upon their conference record.

Quote:2. The 5 home and home games are a big asset. Notre Dame is not playing Michigan, the series with Purdue looks to be ending, and Michigan State is probably going to eventually go away too, but Notre Dame is playing almost half it's schedule with ACC home and home games. Some of those are teams it never would have scheduled those type of games with.

A big asset to who? And why do I care who Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State are playing? Do you honestly think that Michigan and Michigan State are not going to find high profile games to replace the ND games? Do you honestly think that Clemson needs ND to have a high profile OOC game? We originally had Ole Miss at home on 10/3/2015 before our stupid conference made us drop the game....sitting right here, right now which matchup would be more beneficial for a playoff resume? Both would be sellouts, both would be premium priced tickets, but only one is coming off a Top 20 season.

Maybe to most of the other schools in the ACC? ND means sellouts and national TV appearances for them.

Maybe they wanted this and that was more important to them than what Kaplony or maybe even Clemson thought about it.

Wait. Clemson voted FOR ND's partial membership.

I guess that just leaves you?

And the anti-athletics president that did vote to voluntarily add a parasite retired shortly thereafter, as did the puppet AD who went along with it. Coincidence? Hmmm.

There's a new sheriff and deputy in town now. President Clements has been to more non-revenue athletic events to show support than Barker went to total athletic events in his entire term.

(04-07-2015 02:35 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  SB Nation already has a 3 division concept setup:

SB Nation

BC, Cuse, The U, ND and Pitt - that works for me.

(04-08-2015 10:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 09:49 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 07:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 10:50 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Notre Dame is a big asset.

1. Notre Dame is not taking bowls anymore than Florida State is taking bowls from other members. These bowl contracts were done with the knowledge that Notre Dame would be available in the pool. That means the ACC (as long as it negotiated properly) either got better bowls and/or more money from the bowls specifically because the Irish are involved. Some years they'll take one of those bowls and some years they won't. In the end, it will likely balance out.

I know that feels a little counter-intuitive, but you can play it out with anyone else as well. Imagine Florida State negotiated it's own bowl deals and was not part of the ACC deal. Do you think everyone else would be better off as Florida State usually gets a good bowl?

A. Which bowls did Notre Dame bring into the fold that weren't already there and wouldn't have signed with the ACC anyway? The only bowls added to the fold were the Pinstripe, Bitcoin, and Quick Lane. Bitcoin is not a full time slot.

B. Unlike Notre Dame Florida State is a football playing member of this conference. They play a minimum of eight conference games and gets assigned to bowls based upon their conference record.

Quote:2. The 5 home and home games are a big asset. Notre Dame is not playing Michigan, the series with Purdue looks to be ending, and Michigan State is probably going to eventually go away too, but Notre Dame is playing almost half it's schedule with ACC home and home games. Some of those are teams it never would have scheduled those type of games with.

A big asset to who? And why do I care who Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State are playing? Do you honestly think that Michigan and Michigan State are not going to find high profile games to replace the ND games? Do you honestly think that Clemson needs ND to have a high profile OOC game? We originally had Ole Miss at home on 10/3/2015 before our stupid conference made us drop the game....sitting right here, right now which matchup would be more beneficial for a playoff resume? Both would be sellouts, both would be premium priced tickets, but only one is coming off a Top 20 season.

Maybe to most of the other schools in the ACC? ND means sellouts and national TV appearances for them.

Maybe they wanted this and that was more important to them than what Kaplony or maybe even Clemson thought about it.

Wait. Clemson voted FOR ND's partial membership.

I guess that just leaves you?

And the anti-athletics president that did vote to voluntarily add a parasite retired shortly thereafter, as did the puppet AD who went along with it. Coincidence? Hmmm.

There's a new sheriff and deputy in town now. President Clements has been to more non-revenue athletic events to show support than Barker went to total athletic events in his entire term.

Too late....

Thanks guys for the positive feedback.

(04-08-2015 07:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  A. Which bowls did Notre Dame bring into the fold that weren't already there and wouldn't have signed with the ACC anyway? The only bowls added to the fold were the Pinstripe, Bitcoin, and Quick Lane. Bitcoin is not a full time slot.

Few thoughts:
1. The Citrus is there part time which is a very big deal.
2. It's not just a factor of which bowls, but how much money they paid out.
3. Bowls look at who is probably going to be available and make offers based on that. Notre Dame being possible, while not a be all, end all, was certainly helpful in any negotiation.
4. This round of bowl negotiations occurred when the entire bowl structure was altered due to the CFP and massive realignment had occurred (last bowl negotiations took place when the Big 12 was still at 12 and the Big Ten had yet to announce expansion plans) so a lot of comparisons are hard in that light either positive or negative.

(04-08-2015 07:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  B. Unlike Notre Dame Florida State is a football playing member of this conference. They play a minimum of eight conference games and gets assigned to bowls based upon their conference record.

Conference record is a factor, but does not automatically determine any bowl. The Gator Bowl took a 6-6 Florida State team not all that long ago. Also, I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong), their is an overall record rule regarding Notre Dame vs. other ACC members (so a bowl couldn't take a 6-6 Notre Dame over an 8-4 team).

Beyond that, the point is that in negotiations with bowls, the teams available matter. Each of the bowls know they can't count on any specific team being available for them, but they also know the more big name schools in a pool, the more likely they are to get one and thus the more they are willing to bid.

(04-08-2015 07:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  A big asset to who? And why do I care who Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State are playing? Do you honestly think that Michigan and Michigan State are not going to find high profile games to replace the ND games? Do you honestly think that Clemson needs ND to have a high profile OOC game? We originally had Ole Miss at home on 10/3/2015 before our stupid conference made us drop the game....sitting right here, right now which matchup would be more beneficial for a playoff resume? Both would be sellouts, both would be premium priced tickets, but only one is coming off a Top 20 season.

I seriously doubt that the ACC is forcing anyone to schedule Notre Dame against their will. If any schools wants out of the agreement, I'm sure they could. That said...

There is different level of games even among high profile games. Notre Dame is a national brand. I'm not going to say it's the one that will always get you the best of rating, but it's always toward the top. Just as significantly, it is a good school on the schedule even when it sucks (and you can never count on any school being good when games are scheduled so far in advance).

Ole Miss vs. Clemson would have been good for next year, but I can also tell you that even after Ole Miss's season last year, here in Columbus, Ohio (not a Notre Dame city) the amount of people interested in Notre Dame vs. Clemson will be substantially higher than the number of people interested in Clemson vs. Ole Miss. That in turn is a much bigger deal to schools like Wake Forest who would will only very rarely be able to get an Alabama/Texas/Notre Dame/etc to visit.

One more thing for perspective. Ohio State has made a huge deal out of needing 7 home games every single year. Despite this, they just signed a deal that will have them play at Notre Dame in a year where we will have 5 conference road games. That means only 6 home games that year. I'm fairly shocked the school did that, but I know it's because they expect that to be a huge game.

(04-09-2015 11:37 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 07:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  A. Which bowls did Notre Dame bring into the fold that weren't already there and wouldn't have signed with the ACC anyway? The only bowls added to the fold were the Pinstripe, Bitcoin, and Quick Lane. Bitcoin is not a full time slot.

Few thoughts:
1. The Citrus is there part time which is a very big deal.
2. It's not just a factor of which bowls, but how much money they paid out.
3. Bowls look at who is probably going to be available and make offers based on that. Notre Dame being possible, while not a be all, end all, was certainly helpful in any negotiation.
4. This round of bowl negotiations occurred when the entire bowl structure was altered due to the CFP and massive realignment had occurred (last bowl negotiations took place when the Big 12 was still at 12 and the Big Ten had yet to announce expansion plans) so a lot of comparisons are hard in that light either positive or negative.

1. The Citrus was going to be in play regardless of Notre Dame because of the previously announced policy of the Big 10 to not concentrate so many bowls in Florida. Just exactly who else was the Citrus going to go after to fill the slot?

2. The bump in payout of any of our bowls was minimal at best. When you compare the payout of our non-BCS/Orange Bowls (The ones Notre Dame are in play for) the payout did not make a significant increase.

3. So let Notre Dame bump the programs that aren't FSU/Clemson/VT and aren't big bowl draws on their own.

4. So what you are saying in this bullet point is essentially disregard your entire argument. Why did you waste everyone's time making the argument in the first place?