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Benson Missed the Mark
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GSU Eagles Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 10:23 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 08:59 AM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  There are many questions that we posters on the message board do not know the ansewer to such as we know that EKU wants to move to FBS but has the Sun Belt given them a list of things that they need to do first. Has EKU informed the conference with a timeline that they need to get this list of things done. Or has EKU told the conference that there are several things that they need to get done before they are in a position to move up. EKU could have the votes to join today but they and the Sun Belt are just waiting for all the pieces to be in place.

Then again EKU just may not have the votes.

As far as UAB, no decision can be made until the Sun Belt knows what CUSA is going to do in regard to UAB. Some asked what are the chances of UAB joining the Sun Belt. Well they are zero if they stay in CUSA.

The only thing we know is that NMSU does not have the votes because if they did have the votes they would all ready be in the conference. Liberty is in the same boat with NMSU, does not have the votes.

Well they are not in the same boat, and the two boats have different things going or not going for them. Liberty has lots of negatives, NMSU has perceived negatives that are overcome easily, but most importantly has one ore, and used to have two, they are still trying to reclaim that second ore to paddle into safe SBC waters.

I think we've finally figured out nmsu's problem all this time......they have been trying to paddle with rocks!
03-20-2015 01:06 PM
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ValleyBoy Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 01:03 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 10:13 PM)epiccajun Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 05:38 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 05:18 PM)epiccajun Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 05:15 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  The answer is neither. Not even close.

EKU has zero chance .... but don't count out NMSU.

I believe the number you need is 8 votes to get it done, I'm afraid there won't be enough votes.

Easy fix - Karl has total control on how to distribute the NCAA payout from the NCAA win starting in 2016.

Don't distribute the $ to those backward, hillbilly institutions that don't want to vote them in .. since they obviously don't care about NCAA basketball money!

Stupid ridiculous idiot leaders in this conference that only are concerned about adding some SOCON retread because it fits their geography.

It's like the movie Idiocracy could have loosely been based on the leadership of this conference.

Together We Rise???!!!!

As far as the geography issue, you realize that adding another eastern team gets us back to where the conference was before realignment over the past few years. And yes, the Cajuns voted for FAU,FIU,WKU and MTSU. How is GS,GaSt,App and JMU/Liberty much different than what you had voted for before?

Most of the first group was added because the conference needed members at the time they were added to not go the way of the WAC conference. There is a difference in the way each member school will vote when that votes comes down to (a)we have to add someone or (b)do we add someone.

An example would be if an eye doctor told you that you could stop wearing glasses if you had this surgery done or if he told you if you did not have this surgery you would go blind. You would have the eye surgery to keep from going blind every time with out even have to think about it.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2015 01:25 PM by ValleyBoy.)
03-20-2015 01:22 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
The more i read these threads the more i understand that none of you are in the know about any of it. Including the most recent blogger/radio guest.
03-20-2015 01:35 PM
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epiccajun Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 01:35 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  The more i read these threads the more i understand that none of you are in the know about any of it. Including the most recent blogger/radio guest.

Haha - Jax state
03-20-2015 01:54 PM
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CajunExpress Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 01:06 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 10:23 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 08:59 AM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  There are many questions that we posters on the message board do not know the ansewer to such as we know that EKU wants to move to FBS but has the Sun Belt given them a list of things that they need to do first. Has EKU informed the conference with a timeline that they need to get this list of things done. Or has EKU told the conference that there are several things that they need to get done before they are in a position to move up. EKU could have the votes to join today but they and the Sun Belt are just waiting for all the pieces to be in place.

Then again EKU just may not have the votes.

As far as UAB, no decision can be made until the Sun Belt knows what CUSA is going to do in regard to UAB. Some asked what are the chances of UAB joining the Sun Belt. Well they are zero if they stay in CUSA.

The only thing we know is that NMSU does not have the votes because if they did have the votes they would all ready be in the conference. Liberty is in the same boat with NMSU, does not have the votes.

Well they are not in the same boat, and the two boats have different things going or not going for them. Liberty has lots of negatives, NMSU has perceived negatives that are overcome easily, but most importantly has one ore, and used to have two, they are still trying to reclaim that second ore to paddle into safe SBC waters.

I think we've finally figured out nmsu's problem all this time......they have been trying to paddle with rocks!

You ever been to New Mexico USA? Lots of rocks very few trees.

My bad 03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead
03-20-2015 02:19 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
Often repeated argument is:
The Sun Belt lost four eastern schools and has replaced them with three so we need one more.

That presumes any school east of the Mississippi River is a fungible good.

Let's consider Arkansas State. Before the four left, two of them were within 322 miles of AState, shorter than the distance between App and Georgia Southern. Two were 1,000 miles but so close together that regardless of which you were playing in men's and women's basketball and volleyball you either flew into Fort Lauderdale or Miami, campus to campus 55 miles. The two shorter trips lost were drivable by bus AND basketball and volleyball could play both on the same trip because they are just under 100 miles apart.

The three replacements are 452 miles, 619 miles, and 660. Of the three oft mentioned eastern candidates, EKU is 457 miles, Liberty 775, JMU 816

Not one of the three replacements nor any of the three potentials easily combo with anyone in the league. Closest any of the three potentials is to an existing member is 230 from App to Liberty.

From our viewpoint, anyone east is going to be a travel mess, if we are going to be in the business of a travel mess let's add someone who raises the caliber of other sports.

Adding NMSU has a cost for AState.

Of the western schools, the eastern-most school is Arkansas State. AState going east would split AState and UALR but UALR would retain easy trips to UTA and ULM and not awful trips to UL and TXST. AState would be the logical team to move to the east, moving ULM pulls them away from short trips to Lafayette, Little Rock, and Arlington. Moviing UL takes away TXST's shortest league football trip in addition to splitting the Cajun Warhawk rivalry.

Adding NMSU means Sun Belt east is most likely AState, USA, Troy, GaSt, GaSo and App, that's not a travel bonanza for AState yet we advocate adding the school that provides the best bang.
03-20-2015 03:40 PM
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CajunFan3406 Offline
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Post: #47
Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 07:15 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 01:03 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 04:38 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 04:34 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 04:20 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  So the author has sources that say Eastern Kentucky is being pushed by eastern schools? Or is he just spitballin'it like the rest of the article?

I would be surprised if EKU has much support from Ga Southern or Ga State. I doubt App St is "infatuated" with them either. Does he think Troy or USA are pushing them?

If he has sources off the record, why would he expose them? I'm willing to bet we hear his statements are accurate or pretty darn close during the spring meetings. But it wouldn't surprise me at all because the east schools have been dead set against NMST all along. EKU would be right up there alley.

EKU had 3,500 people show up for a playoff game after one of their best seasons in years. Plus they are not close to GaSt or GS. I seriously doubt EKU has much support.

It sounds like the "journalist" is more of a message board poster that is upset NMSU isn't getting invited so he throws out the EKU comment that is based on nothing.

Maybe you ought to research the guy rather than put "journalist" in quotes. He is paid professional media. And he isn't just throwing out the EKU comment based on nothing, that's a fact.

How bout enlighten us to his qualifications, I couldnt find much other than he was a blogger and a writer?

BJ/CajunT (is it safe to mention that username on here?? ;-) ) is probably the most "in the know" media guy who covers UL sports. The site and story linked in the OP "CajunRedZone" is UL's Scout page. He runs that, along with hosting a weekly radio show here in Lafayette. His main focus is recruiting, but he does cover other pressing issues involving UL. He has solid sources, and he makes a point not to divulge who they are.
03-20-2015 03:40 PM
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 01:35 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  The more i read these threads the more i understand that none of you are in the know about any of it. Including the most recent blogger/radio guest.

LMFAO! Yep, because Jackson State fans get out the top information out in the wilderness!
03-20-2015 04:54 PM
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 03:40 PM)CajunFan3406 Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 07:15 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 01:03 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 04:38 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  
(03-19-2015 04:34 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  If he has sources off the record, why would he expose them? I'm willing to bet we hear his statements are accurate or pretty darn close during the spring meetings. But it wouldn't surprise me at all because the east schools have been dead set against NMST all along. EKU would be right up there alley.

EKU had 3,500 people show up for a playoff game after one of their best seasons in years. Plus they are not close to GaSt or GS. I seriously doubt EKU has much support.

It sounds like the "journalist" is more of a message board poster that is upset NMSU isn't getting invited so he throws out the EKU comment that is based on nothing.

Maybe you ought to research the guy rather than put "journalist" in quotes. He is paid professional media. And he isn't just throwing out the EKU comment based on nothing, that's a fact.

How bout enlighten us to his qualifications, I couldnt find much other than he was a blogger and a writer?

BJ/CajunT (is it safe to mention that username on here?? ;-) ) is probably the most "in the know" media guy who covers UL sports. The site and story linked in the OP "CajunRedZone" is UL's Scout page. He runs that, along with hosting a weekly radio show here in Lafayette. His main focus is recruiting, but he does cover other pressing issues involving UL. He has solid sources, and he makes a point not to divulge who they are.

Well, I already put his name out there so if he did care its a little late. I doubt he does since he does radio.
03-20-2015 04:56 PM
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Oldyeller Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
Without reading all the previous posts it seems apparent that Benson suffers from the same bug Georgia States dealing with. The size of the venue is less important than how accessible and convenient it is. Students want grassy shady hangouts with some privacy for pregame fun and the older want the same but also need convenience.
03-20-2015 05:19 PM
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epiccajun Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 03:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Often repeated argument is:
The Sun Belt lost four eastern schools and has replaced them with three so we need one more.

That presumes any school east of the Mississippi River is a fungible good.

Let's consider Arkansas State. Before the four left, two of them were within 322 miles of AState, shorter than the distance between App and Georgia Southern. Two were 1,000 miles but so close together that regardless of which you were playing in men's and women's basketball and volleyball you either flew into Fort Lauderdale or Miami, campus to campus 55 miles. The two shorter trips lost were drivable by bus AND basketball and volleyball could play both on the same trip because they are just under 100 miles apart.

The three replacements are 452 miles, 619 miles, and 660. Of the three oft mentioned eastern candidates, EKU is 457 miles, Liberty 775, JMU 816

Not one of the three replacements nor any of the three potentials easily combo with anyone in the league. Closest any of the three potentials is to an existing member is 230 from App to Liberty.

From our viewpoint, anyone east is going to be a travel mess, if we are going to be in the business of a travel mess let's add someone who raises the caliber of other sports.

Adding NMSU has a cost for AState.

Of the western schools, the eastern-most school is Arkansas State. AState going east would split AState and UALR but UALR would retain easy trips to UTA and ULM and not awful trips to UL and TXST. AState would be the logical team to move to the east, moving ULM pulls them away from short trips to Lafayette, Little Rock, and Arlington. Moviing UL takes away TXST's shortest league football trip in addition to splitting the Cajun Warhawk rivalry.

Adding NMSU means Sun Belt east is most likely AState, USA, Troy, GaSt, GaSo and App, that's not a travel bonanza for AState yet we advocate adding the school that provides the best bang.

That's because stAte understands it and is truly committed to being in a competitive conference.
03-20-2015 08:37 PM
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GSU Eagles Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 03:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Often repeated argument is:
The Sun Belt lost four eastern schools and has replaced them with three so we need one more.

That presumes any school east of the Mississippi River is a fungible good.

Let's consider Arkansas State. Before the four left, two of them were within 322 miles of AState, shorter than the distance between App and Georgia Southern. Two were 1,000 miles but so close together that regardless of which you were playing in men's and women's basketball and volleyball you either flew into Fort Lauderdale or Miami, campus to campus 55 miles. The two shorter trips lost were drivable by bus AND basketball and volleyball could play both on the same trip because they are just under 100 miles apart.

The three replacements are 452 miles, 619 miles, and 660. Of the three oft mentioned eastern candidates, EKU is 457 miles, Liberty 775, JMU 816

Not one of the three replacements nor any of the three potentials easily combo with anyone in the league. Closest any of the three potentials is to an existing member is 230 from App to Liberty.

From our viewpoint, anyone east is going to be a travel mess, if we are going to be in the business of a travel mess let's add someone who raises the caliber of other sports.

Adding NMSU has a cost for AState.

Of the western schools, the eastern-most school is Arkansas State. AState going east would split AState and UALR but UALR would retain easy trips to UTA and ULM and not awful trips to UL and TXST. AState would be the logical team to move to the east, moving ULM pulls them away from short trips to Lafayette, Little Rock, and Arlington. Moviing UL takes away TXST's shortest league football trip in addition to splitting the Cajun Warhawk rivalry.

Adding NMSU means Sun Belt east is most likely AState, USA, Troy, GaSt, GaSo and App, that's not a travel bonanza for AState yet we advocate adding the school that provides the best bang.

What do we gain by adding NMSU?

- they don't add a second bid to the ncaa's and one additional "good" team averaged in with 12 others doesn't move the needle much for the conference as a whole.

- football is a disaster and will not get much better. NMSU needs to be a short term fix that will move on soon and improve our RPI by leaving. Football is the crown jewel for the SBC so don't hurt the 75% factor of importance to improve the 20%.

- travel is a disaster for EVERY school in the conference. We should make our travel budgets soar to permanently hurt the crown jewel which is football?

NMSU makes no sense other than some schools trying to shift the geography ultimately to the detriment of the conference. In terms of distance, adding them is the equivalent of adding umass in the east. Hopefully UAB is the answer.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2015 09:36 PM by GSU Eagles.)
03-20-2015 09:32 PM
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Bobcat87 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 03:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Often repeated argument is:
The Sun Belt lost four eastern schools and has replaced them with three so we need one more.

That presumes any school east of the Mississippi River is a fungible good.

Let's consider Arkansas State. Before the four left, two of them were within 322 miles of AState, shorter than the distance between App and Georgia Southern. Two were 1,000 miles but so close together that regardless of which you were playing in men's and women's basketball and volleyball you either flew into Fort Lauderdale or Miami, campus to campus 55 miles. The two shorter trips lost were drivable by bus AND basketball and volleyball could play both on the same trip because they are just under 100 miles apart.

The three replacements are 452 miles, 619 miles, and 660. Of the three oft mentioned eastern candidates, EKU is 457 miles, Liberty 775, JMU 816

Not one of the three replacements nor any of the three potentials easily combo with anyone in the league. Closest any of the three potentials is to an existing member is 230 from App to Liberty.

From our viewpoint, anyone east is going to be a travel mess, if we are going to be in the business of a travel mess let's add someone who raises the caliber of other sports.

Adding NMSU has a cost for AState.

Of the western schools, the eastern-most school is Arkansas State. AState going east would split AState and UALR but UALR would retain easy trips to UTA and ULM and not awful trips to UL and TXST. AState would be the logical team to move to the east, moving ULM pulls them away from short trips to Lafayette, Little Rock, and Arlington. Moviing UL takes away TXST's shortest league football trip in addition to splitting the Cajun Warhawk rivalry.

Adding NMSU means Sun Belt east is most likely AState, USA, Troy, GaSt, GaSo and App, that's not a travel bonanza for AState yet we advocate adding the school that provides the best bang.

What do we gain by adding NMSU?

- they don't add a second bid to the ncaa's and one additional "good" team averaged in with 12 others doesn't move the needle much for the conference as a whole.

- football is a disaster and will not get much better. NMSU needs to be a short term fix that will move on soon and improve our RPI by leaving. Football is the crown jewel for the SBC so don't hurt the 75% factor of importance to improve the 20%.

- travel is a disaster for EVERY school in the conference. We should make our travel budgets soar to permanently hurt the crown jewel which is football?

NMSU makes no sense other than some schools trying to shift the geography ultimately to the detriment of the conference. In terms of distance, adding them is the equivalent of adding umass in the east. Hopefully UAB is the answer.

Their football needs improvement, even they acknowledge that. . . .

They're an established FBS program, name recognition and no transition period with their addition . .

They bring very good basketball, and a solid baseball program. Travel's not really that big a deal, fly into El Paso, and a short bus trip to Las Cruces. . . .

The only people that seem to have an issue with travel are the people that just came up from their "bus league."

And no, UAB is NOT the answer, as they currently still reside in CUSA, and even IF kicked out, there's no guarantee they come to the SBC.

At the moment, they're the best add option on the table.

NMSU ALL SPORTS!
03-20-2015 09:44 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 09:44 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 03:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Often repeated argument is:
The Sun Belt lost four eastern schools and has replaced them with three so we need one more.

That presumes any school east of the Mississippi River is a fungible good.

Let's consider Arkansas State. Before the four left, two of them were within 322 miles of AState, shorter than the distance between App and Georgia Southern. Two were 1,000 miles but so close together that regardless of which you were playing in men's and women's basketball and volleyball you either flew into Fort Lauderdale or Miami, campus to campus 55 miles. The two shorter trips lost were drivable by bus AND basketball and volleyball could play both on the same trip because they are just under 100 miles apart.

The three replacements are 452 miles, 619 miles, and 660. Of the three oft mentioned eastern candidates, EKU is 457 miles, Liberty 775, JMU 816

Not one of the three replacements nor any of the three potentials easily combo with anyone in the league. Closest any of the three potentials is to an existing member is 230 from App to Liberty.

From our viewpoint, anyone east is going to be a travel mess, if we are going to be in the business of a travel mess let's add someone who raises the caliber of other sports.

Adding NMSU has a cost for AState.

Of the western schools, the eastern-most school is Arkansas State. AState going east would split AState and UALR but UALR would retain easy trips to UTA and ULM and not awful trips to UL and TXST. AState would be the logical team to move to the east, moving ULM pulls them away from short trips to Lafayette, Little Rock, and Arlington. Moviing UL takes away TXST's shortest league football trip in addition to splitting the Cajun Warhawk rivalry.

Adding NMSU means Sun Belt east is most likely AState, USA, Troy, GaSt, GaSo and App, that's not a travel bonanza for AState yet we advocate adding the school that provides the best bang.

What do we gain by adding NMSU?

- they don't add a second bid to the ncaa's and one additional "good" team averaged in with 12 others doesn't move the needle much for the conference as a whole.

- football is a disaster and will not get much better. NMSU needs to be a short term fix that will move on soon and improve our RPI by leaving. Football is the crown jewel for the SBC so don't hurt the 75% factor of importance to improve the 20%.

- travel is a disaster for EVERY school in the conference. We should make our travel budgets soar to permanently hurt the crown jewel which is football?

NMSU makes no sense other than some schools trying to shift the geography ultimately to the detriment of the conference. In terms of distance, adding them is the equivalent of adding umass in the east. Hopefully UAB is the answer.

Their football needs improvement, even they acknowledge that. . . .

They're an established FBS program, name recognition and no transition period with their addition . .

They bring very good basketball, and a solid baseball program. Travel's not really that big a deal, fly into El Paso, and a short bus trip to Las Cruces. . . .

The only people that seem to have an issue with travel are the people that just came up from their "bus league."

And no, UAB is NOT the answer, as they currently still reside in CUSA, and even IF kicked out, there's no guarantee they come to the SBC.

At the moment, they're the best add option on the table.

NMSU ALL SPORTS!

Why waste your time, both you and ArkSt fan have made it very clear why it makes sense? Many of the eastern program's fans see nothing but a rebirth or continuation of FCS rivalries as Sun Belt members. After countless post on this subject, it has become nothing but an ecco chamber. Sadly!
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2015 10:14 PM by CrazyCajun.)
03-20-2015 10:14 PM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  What do we gain by adding NMSU?

- they don't add a second bid to the ncaa's and one additional "good" team averaged in with 12 others doesn't move the needle much for the conference as a whole.

Even if nothing else changed, NMSU's RPI would improve everyone else's by a few points, which in turn improves everyone else's when they play everyone else. A loss against NMSU with a better RPI than any other team is better than a loss to a team with an RPI in the bottom half. Only NMSU comes close in terms of legit SBC expansion candidates in terms of good RPI. Factor in the program's history and it is a no-brainer which brings the better program. Which leads me to...

(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  - football is a disaster and will not get much better. NMSU needs to be a short term fix that will move on soon and improve our RPI by leavin

g. Football is the crown jewel for the SBC so don't hurt the 75% factor of importance to improve the 20%.

This is the absolute most incorrect thing of all. Football brings in money, no question. But bowl payouts don't cover the cost of the bowl. (see here for an example, http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...eed-payout) The college football playoff will bring some money, especially if the SBC can be in the top-tier of conferences, but the sheer expense of the sport, 85 scholarships, dozens of unscholarship players, million-dollar coaching salaries, training and support, etc. mean a ton of money.

Football is not, repeat is not, a money maker.

Basketball, on the pother hand, is. Just making the tournament is worth 1.6 million for the conference, a win is 3.2 million and so on. Even though the money is split over six years, it happens yearly, so it is roughly 1.6 per year minimum. Spread over 13 scholarships, a couple non-scholarship, hundreds of thousands of coaches salaries and some support. Travel costs are far lower, with a hundred fewer seats, hotels, meals, etc. Basketball is more likely to be a profit than football is for the G5 and lower.

The travel cost debate leads to...

(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  - travel is a disaster for EVERY school in the conference. We should make our travel budgets soar to permanently hurt the crown jewel which is football?

Once you have committed to a flight, distance is not much of a factor. The primary cost of flying is takeoff and landing, a constant for any trip. A flight to EKU is marginally cheaper than NMSU. It is the bus ride from the airport that makes more of a difference. NMSU's distance from El Paso can not be understated.

NMSU's big drawback is the lack of a travel partner, but really, that only affects the basketball sports and volleyball. Football doesn't utilize that, neither do track and field, cross country, baseball or softball. Tennis could but doesn't always.

Factor in divisional play, which would be in effect for any new add, and travel costs actually fall from where they are now for every school in the east with NMSU. You only make half the trips to the west.

Divisional play does set up its own problems, especially in sports like baseball or softball, where you wouldn't even play ever team in the conference, but those are competitive issues, not cost issues.
03-20-2015 10:48 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #56
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 03:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Often repeated argument is:
The Sun Belt lost four eastern schools and has replaced them with three so we need one more.

That presumes any school east of the Mississippi River is a fungible good.

Let's consider Arkansas State. Before the four left, two of them were within 322 miles of AState, shorter than the distance between App and Georgia Southern. Two were 1,000 miles but so close together that regardless of which you were playing in men's and women's basketball and volleyball you either flew into Fort Lauderdale or Miami, campus to campus 55 miles. The two shorter trips lost were drivable by bus AND basketball and volleyball could play both on the same trip because they are just under 100 miles apart.

The three replacements are 452 miles, 619 miles, and 660. Of the three oft mentioned eastern candidates, EKU is 457 miles, Liberty 775, JMU 816

Not one of the three replacements nor any of the three potentials easily combo with anyone in the league. Closest any of the three potentials is to an existing member is 230 from App to Liberty.

From our viewpoint, anyone east is going to be a travel mess, if we are going to be in the business of a travel mess let's add someone who raises the caliber of other sports.

Adding NMSU has a cost for AState.

Of the western schools, the eastern-most school is Arkansas State. AState going east would split AState and UALR but UALR would retain easy trips to UTA and ULM and not awful trips to UL and TXST. AState would be the logical team to move to the east, moving ULM pulls them away from short trips to Lafayette, Little Rock, and Arlington. Moviing UL takes away TXST's shortest league football trip in addition to splitting the Cajun Warhawk rivalry.

Adding NMSU means Sun Belt east is most likely AState, USA, Troy, GaSt, GaSo and App, that's not a travel bonanza for AState yet we advocate adding the school that provides the best bang.

What do we gain by adding NMSU?

- they don't add a second bid to the ncaa's and one additional "good" team averaged in with 12 others doesn't move the needle much for the conference as a whole.

- football is a disaster and will not get much better. NMSU needs to be a short term fix that will move on soon and improve our RPI by leaving. Football is the crown jewel for the SBC so don't hurt the 75% factor of importance to improve the 20%.

- travel is a disaster for EVERY school in the conference. We should make our travel budgets soar to permanently hurt the crown jewel which is football?

NMSU makes no sense other than some schools trying to shift the geography ultimately to the detriment of the conference. In terms of distance, adding them is the equivalent of adding umass in the east. Hopefully UAB is the answer.

This was a two bid league in 2013. No adding ONE good basketball program will not make it perennial two bid league but look at NMSU, they play in a raggedy league of recent move-ups and schools that languished as indies because no one wanted them. RPI 103 which would be second in the Sun Belt.

Same situation on the women's side, RPI 121 which would have been fourth in the Sun Belt and maybe enough to push AState's SOS into a better shot at an at-large.

Volleyball has 7 NCAA appearances since 2003.

NMSU football is a mess but that beef goes no where because we already have brought them in, while they remain outside in sports where they can help.

When the Sun Belt added football for 2001 in late 1999 decisions had to be made by the members, at that time it was the following schools without football: Florida International, New Orleans, South Alabama, Denver, UALR, WKU and had AState and Louisiana as the football members. The league elected to add MTSU, UNT, and NMSU as full members and offer football only to ULM, Utah State, and Idaho.

The league stretched just over 2000 miles in basketball and 1975 miles in baseball. The league had $0 in playoff and BCS money but the idea back then was add best available. App and GaSo are 300 miles closer to Las Cruces than FIU was but FIU voted to add NMSU.

UAB isn't available until they are and if you are the Board of Trustees and President and don't want football do you put the team in a league where they can add football in the future and return to FBS or do you send them to the OVC where football if brought back is FCS or the A-Sun where football isn't an option? UAB getting booted doesn't guarantee they would come Sun Belt and with Sun Belt sharing football money with non-football schools there is no assurance the football members will vote to add a non-football.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2015 11:27 PM by arkstfan.)
03-20-2015 11:22 PM
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GSU Eagles Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 10:48 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  What do we gain by adding NMSU?

- they don't add a second bid to the ncaa's and one additional "good" team averaged in with 12 others doesn't move the needle much for the conference as a whole.

Even if nothing else changed, NMSU's RPI would improve everyone else's by a few points, which in turn improves everyone else's when they play everyone else. A loss against NMSU with a better RPI than any other team is better than a loss to a team with an RPI in the bottom half. Only NMSU comes close in terms of legit SBC expansion candidates in terms of good RPI. Factor in the program's history and it is a no-brainer which brings the better program. Which leads me to...

(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  - football is a disaster and will not get much better. NMSU needs to be a short term fix that will move on soon and improve our RPI by leavin

g. Football is the crown jewel for the SBC so don't hurt the 75% factor of importance to improve the 20%.

This is the absolute most incorrect thing of all. Football brings in money, no question. But bowl payouts don't cover the cost of the bowl. (see here for an example, http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...eed-payout) The college football playoff will bring some money, especially if the SBC can be in the top-tier of conferences, but the sheer expense of the sport, 85 scholarships, dozens of unscholarship players, million-dollar coaching salaries, training and support, etc. mean a ton of money.

Football is not, repeat is not, a money maker.

Basketball, on the pother hand, is. Just making the tournament is worth 1.6 million for the conference, a win is 3.2 million and so on. Even though the money is split over six years, it happens yearly, so it is roughly 1.6 per year minimum. Spread over 13 scholarships, a couple non-scholarship, hundreds of thousands of coaches salaries and some support. Travel costs are far lower, with a hundred fewer seats, hotels, meals, etc. Basketball is more likely to be a profit than football is for the G5 and lower.


The travel cost debate leads to...

(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  - travel is a disaster for EVERY school in the conference. We should make our travel budgets soar to permanently hurt the crown jewel which is football?

Once you have committed to a flight, distance is not much of a factor. The primary cost of flying is takeoff and landing, a constant for any trip. A flight to EKU is marginally cheaper than NMSU. It is the bus ride from the airport that makes more of a difference. NMSU's distance from El Paso can not be understated.

NMSU's big drawback is the lack of a travel partner, but really, that only affects the basketball sports and volleyball. Football doesn't utilize that, neither do track and field, cross country, baseball or softball. Tennis could but doesn't always.

Factor in divisional play, which would be in effect for any new add, and travel costs actually fall from where they are now for every school in the east with NMSU. You only make half the trips to the west.

Divisional play does set up its own problems, especially in sports like baseball or softball, where you wouldn't even play ever team in the conference, but those are competitive issues, not cost issues.

Football receives a guaranteed $1 million per team plus the performance payout so the amount approaches $15 million per year for the conference. If a team makes the G5 bowl, that's another $8 or so million.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2015 05:20 AM by GSU Eagles.)
03-21-2015 05:17 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
UAB's days in CUSA are numbered. They are the only logical option to the SB. A lot of messageboard talk about NMSU as a full member, but is there been any "official" interest by NMSU ifor full membership in the SB?
03-21-2015 07:41 AM
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epiccajun Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
(03-20-2015 10:14 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 09:44 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 09:32 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  
(03-20-2015 03:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Often repeated argument is:
The Sun Belt lost four eastern schools and has replaced them with three so we need one more.

That presumes any school east of the Mississippi River is a fungible good.

Let's consider Arkansas State. Before the four left, two of them were within 322 miles of AState, shorter than the distance between App and Georgia Southern. Two were 1,000 miles but so close together that regardless of which you were playing in men's and women's basketball and volleyball you either flew into Fort Lauderdale or Miami, campus to campus 55 miles. The two shorter trips lost were drivable by bus AND basketball and volleyball could play both on the same trip because they are just under 100 miles apart.

The three replacements are 452 miles, 619 miles, and 660. Of the three oft mentioned eastern candidates, EKU is 457 miles, Liberty 775, JMU 816

Not one of the three replacements nor any of the three potentials easily combo with anyone in the league. Closest any of the three potentials is to an existing member is 230 from App to Liberty.

From our viewpoint, anyone east is going to be a travel mess, if we are going to be in the business of a travel mess let's add someone who raises the caliber of other sports.

Adding NMSU has a cost for AState.

Of the western schools, the eastern-most school is Arkansas State. AState going east would split AState and UALR but UALR would retain easy trips to UTA and ULM and not awful trips to UL and TXST. AState would be the logical team to move to the east, moving ULM pulls them away from short trips to Lafayette, Little Rock, and Arlington. Moviing UL takes away TXST's shortest league football trip in addition to splitting the Cajun Warhawk rivalry.

Adding NMSU means Sun Belt east is most likely AState, USA, Troy, GaSt, GaSo and App, that's not a travel bonanza for AState yet we advocate adding the school that provides the best bang.

What do we gain by adding NMSU?

- they don't add a second bid to the ncaa's and one additional "good" team averaged in with 12 others doesn't move the needle much for the conference as a whole.

- football is a disaster and will not get much better. NMSU needs to be a short term fix that will move on soon and improve our RPI by leaving. Football is the crown jewel for the SBC so don't hurt the 75% factor of importance to improve the 20%.

- travel is a disaster for EVERY school in the conference. We should make our travel budgets soar to permanently hurt the crown jewel which is football?

NMSU makes no sense other than some schools trying to shift the geography ultimately to the detriment of the conference. In terms of distance, adding them is the equivalent of adding umass in the east. Hopefully UAB is the answer.

Their football needs improvement, even they acknowledge that. . . .

They're an established FBS program, name recognition and no transition period with their addition . .

They bring very good basketball, and a solid baseball program. Travel's not really that big a deal, fly into El Paso, and a short bus trip to Las Cruces. . . .

The only people that seem to have an issue with travel are the people that just came up from their "bus league."

And no, UAB is NOT the answer, as they currently still reside in CUSA, and even IF kicked out, there's no guarantee they come to the SBC.

At the moment, they're the best add option on the table.

NMSU ALL SPORTS!

Why waste your time, both you and ArkSt fan have made it very clear why it makes sense? Many of the eastern program's fans see nothing but a rebirth or continuation of FCS rivalries as Sun Belt members. After countless post on this subject, it has become nothing but an ecco chamber. Sadly!

And if the mindset of just putting these old FCS rivalries on a "bigger stage" doesn't stop, we won't be able to turn around the downward direction this conference is taking.

Time to think bigger, and quit worrying about a negligible increase in travel budget.

Again, I know budgets are about to get tighter for all SBC schools soon, but if a very rarae and miniscule increase in flight costs is the tipping point, then the school has no business in FBS level sports and should have stayed FCS.

Pretty simple, either commit or quit.

And I'll say this again, Ga Southern and App were the last of the quality move up candidates in reality. We don't need any of the other projects out there, along with some that have a nightmare of pr baggage.

NMSU is the Last of the Mohicans, add them, and act like a real conference.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2015 08:13 AM by epiccajun.)
03-21-2015 08:11 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Benson Missed the Mark
What is keeping the Sun Belt from inviting UAB now before they get kicked out of C-USA? You guys would help them save face from being expelled, give them an FBS home should they potentially restart football, and are right in their geographic footprint. I can see why they would say no (they want to stay in C-USA as long as possible or find a better home for basketball) but you guys could improve the perception of the league by poaching a C-USA school rather than picking up a C-USA cast away depending on when you invite them.
03-21-2015 09:06 AM
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