(03-06-2015 09:10 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:04 PM)TripleA Wrote:  To be fair about the 5 seasons for Pastner before this year, he didn't just have "winning seasons." He won at least 24 games every year, and 31 one year.

Sure..but, serious question: What was his record against Top 25? I thought I read it was something like 6-27 or something like that and including during these years your are referring to in your post.

Again, serious question.

Can't pad that up till we are in the Big 12

(03-06-2015 09:10 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:04 PM)TripleA Wrote:  To be fair about the 5 seasons for Pastner before this year, he didn't just have "winning seasons." He won at least 24 games every year, and 31 one year.

Sure..but, serious question: What was his record against Top 25? I thought I read it was something like 6-27 or something like that and including during these years your are referring to in your post.

Again, serious question.

I won't list all the complaints that Memphis fans have about Pastner. You can go to the Memphis board and read them yourself if you'd like. Yes, the record against the top 25 isn't very good, too many blowout losses, and losing some local recruiting wars, etc.

Much of Pastner's winning percentage was against teams in Cusa 2.0. While Memphis fans were calling for Calipari's head in 2004-2005 in a lousy season, Cusa then included Marquette, Louisville, Cincy, DePaul, and St. Louis.

Some folks may be nuts about firing him, but this season there has been an evident shift of many, many rational, longtime fans to the belief that Pastner's not the man for the job. Attendance this year is c. 13,900, down from 16,100 last year--the lowest in at least a decade.

Last night was a terrific win for the Tigers and congrats to coach and the team. But one game doesn't make a turnaround, and imho doesn't change the discussion about whether he should be our coach.

(03-06-2015 09:43 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:10 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:04 PM)TripleA Wrote:  To be fair about the 5 seasons for Pastner before this year, he didn't just have "winning seasons." He won at least 24 games every year, and 31 one year.

Sure..but, serious question: What was his record against Top 25? I thought I read it was something like 6-27 or something like that and including during these years your are referring to in your post.

Again, serious question.

I won't list all the complaints that Memphis fans have about Pastner. You can go to the Memphis board and read them yourself if you'd like. Yes, the record against the top 25 isn't very good, too many blowout losses, and losing some local recruiting wars, etc.

Much of Pastner's winning percentage was against teams in Cusa 2.0. While Memphis fans were calling for Calipari's head in 2004-2005 in a lousy season, Cusa then included Marquette, Louisville, Cincy, DePaul, and St. Louis.

Some folks may be nuts about firing him, but this season there has been an evident shift of many, many rational, longtime fans to the belief that Pastner's not the man for the job. Attendance this year is c. 13,900, down from 16,100 last year--the lowest in at least a decade.

Last night was a terrific win for the Tigers and congrats to coach and the team. But one game doesn't make a turnaround, and imho doesn't change the discussion about whether he should be our coach.

Even if he isn't the coach for the program, he isn't getting fired for 1 season. Alll the new players will be taken in account for this year. If he can't reach the sweet 16 with the Lawson's and what is coming back it is free game for the boosters. It isn't a given he would want to stay at Memphis if offered by another school.

(03-06-2015 09:10 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:04 PM)TripleA Wrote:  To be fair about the 5 seasons for Pastner before this year, he didn't just have "winning seasons." He won at least 24 games every year, and 31 one year.

Sure..but, serious question: What was his record against Top 25? I thought I read it was something like 6-27 or something like that and including during these years your are referring to in your post.

Again, serious question.

I'm not defending the guy. I'm just correcting whoever made the comment that "winning seasons" don't mean much. Pastner did much more than just have "winning seasons. He never won less than 24 games.

Beyond that, like many other Memphis fans, I have lost faith in Pastner being the long term answer, but he's not getting fired after this season. He has at least one more year, so I don't see much sense in even debating it right now..

(03-06-2015 11:53 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:10 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:04 PM)TripleA Wrote:  To be fair about the 5 seasons for Pastner before this year, he didn't just have "winning seasons." He won at least 24 games every year, and 31 one year.

Sure..but, serious question: What was his record against Top 25? I thought I read it was something like 6-27 or something like that and including during these years your are referring to in your post.

Again, serious question.

I'm not defending the guy. I'm just correcting whoever made the comment that "winning seasons" don't mean much. Pastner did much more than just have "winning seasons. He never won less than 24 games.

Beyond that, like many other Memphis fans, I have lost faith in Pastner being the long term answer, but he's not getting fired after this season. He has at least one more year, so I don't see much sense in even debating it right now..

sure...you can't fire the man because of one season, and it's not like you guys are 10-22 this year either. You still have almost 20 wins and the season isn't over. My guess is between the AAC tourney and the NIT (I assume) you get to 20. A coached doesn't get fired for 20 wins at ANY program.

My point is, even with the 24+ win seasons Pastner doesn't have a good record of beating really good teams. I guess the worst you can say about the man is that he beats the teams he 'should' which isn't necessarily a bad thing to be known for.

The real reason i bring all this up is this: (I'm not going to dig up the posts) but I said long before this season ever started that I didn't think Pastner was a good coach because he didn't beat the really good teams constantly on his schedule. I also said his win/loss was overinflated due to the conference you guys were in. Some Tiger fans around here blew a gasket at my comments at the time and said I was nuts. I think some of those same fans are now calling for the mans head.

I also agree, he doesn't seem to be the man for the job but I don't follow it close like you guys do.

(03-07-2015 08:49 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:53 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:10 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:04 PM)TripleA Wrote:  To be fair about the 5 seasons for Pastner before this year, he didn't just have "winning seasons." He won at least 24 games every year, and 31 one year.

Sure..but, serious question: What was his record against Top 25? I thought I read it was something like 6-27 or something like that and including during these years your are referring to in your post.

Again, serious question.

I'm not defending the guy. I'm just correcting whoever made the comment that "winning seasons" don't mean much. Pastner did much more than just have "winning seasons. He never won less than 24 games.

Beyond that, like many other Memphis fans, I have lost faith in Pastner being the long term answer, but he's not getting fired after this season. He has at least one more year, so I don't see much sense in even debating it right now..

sure...you can't fire the man because of one season, and it's not like you guys are 10-22 this year either. You still have almost 20 wins and the season isn't over. My guess is between the AAC tourney and the NIT (I assume) you get to 20. A coached doesn't get fired for 20 wins at ANY program.

My point is, even with the 24+ win seasons Pastner doesn't have a good record of beating really good teams. I guess the worst you can say about the man is that he beats the teams he 'should' which isn't necessarily a bad thing to be known for.

The real reason i bring all this up is this: (I'm not going to dig up the posts) but I said long before this season ever started that I didn't think Pastner was a good coach because he didn't beat the really good teams constantly on his schedule. I also said his win/loss was overinflated due to the conference you guys were in. Some Tiger fans around here blew a gasket at my comments at the time and said I was nuts. I think some of those same fans are now calling for the mans head.

I also agree, he doesn't seem to be the man for the job but I don't follow it close like you guys do.

Is Cronin the man for the job?

^ I mean, they lost to Harvard in the NCAAs....

(03-07-2015 10:52 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  

(03-07-2015 08:49 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:53 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:10 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 09:04 PM)TripleA Wrote:  To be fair about the 5 seasons for Pastner before this year, he didn't just have "winning seasons." He won at least 24 games every year, and 31 one year.

Sure..but, serious question: What was his record against Top 25? I thought I read it was something like 6-27 or something like that and including during these years your are referring to in your post.

Again, serious question.

I'm not defending the guy. I'm just correcting whoever made the comment that "winning seasons" don't mean much. Pastner did much more than just have "winning seasons. He never won less than 24 games.

Beyond that, like many other Memphis fans, I have lost faith in Pastner being the long term answer, but he's not getting fired after this season. He has at least one more year, so I don't see much sense in even debating it right now..

sure...you can't fire the man because of one season, and it's not like you guys are 10-22 this year either. You still have almost 20 wins and the season isn't over. My guess is between the AAC tourney and the NIT (I assume) you get to 20. A coached doesn't get fired for 20 wins at ANY program.

My point is, even with the 24+ win seasons Pastner doesn't have a good record of beating really good teams. I guess the worst you can say about the man is that he beats the teams he 'should' which isn't necessarily a bad thing to be known for.

The real reason i bring all this up is this: (I'm not going to dig up the posts) but I said long before this season ever started that I didn't think Pastner was a good coach because he didn't beat the really good teams constantly on his schedule. I also said his win/loss was overinflated due to the conference you guys were in. Some Tiger fans around here blew a gasket at my comments at the time and said I was nuts. I think some of those same fans are now calling for the mans head.

I also agree, he doesn't seem to be the man for the job but I don't follow it close like you guys do.

Is Cronin the man for the job?

It depends on what you as a fan deem "good".

If you want a coach that will recruit decently, have teams that annually are tough defensively and play with heart. Players that don't get in trouble and do graduate. An annual NCAA quality team. Yes he is the right man.

If you want an elite program that is annually in the top 15 making deep tourney runs. If you want a coach who gets a lot of five star kids, and coaches a team with a lot of offense. No, he's not the right man for the job.

As a whole the fan base seems to be ok with Mick, but he has his detractors to be sure.

Personally:
I think he's ok, not great. His kids graduate, stay out of the news and are generally good guys. I think he is one of the very best at coaching defense. I think he is not good at coaching offense. He is a decent not great recruiter. I don't know if we will make a deep tourney run on any regular basis with him as coach because our offense is always just totally anemic. His teams play with toughness and defense. I like that. I just wish he could recruit/coach offense. My overall summation is, he will keep UC good, but is he going to be that coach that gets us back to where we were under Huggs. No, I don't believe so.


Since he is out with health issues right now it's a moot point.

(03-07-2015 11:01 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  ^ I mean, they lost to Harvard in the NCAAs....

And that Harvard team was better than this years Memphis and UC teams, Amaker is a better coach than Pastner and probably Cronin.

(03-07-2015 11:01 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  ^ I mean, they lost to Harvard in the NCAAs....

honestly taking one loss in the ncaa as your basis is so stupid I can't believe it

I'm not the biggest Mick Cronin fan. I think he's decent, not great. It has nothing to do with a loss to Harvard. Bobby Knight lost to Cleveland St one year in a 2/15 matchup. It happens. You guys lost to Drexel one year with Larry Finch. But a lot of Memphis fans swear by Larry Finch. I don't think he was a good coach, but it had nothing to do with losing to Drexel in the first round of the ncaa.

lol, I struck a nerve...

I'm not taking shots at Pastner. I have said all along I don't think he is a good coach.

You won 24+ games a year in a really really bad conference. At least you beat the teams you should have. That's something. But take Pastner's stats against top 25 (6-21 or whatever it is) and you see a different story.

So there really can only be two conclusions:
He isn't a very good coach.
or
He is a good coach, but those Memphis teams were 'paper tigers' if you excuse the pun.

You tell me.

The difference is I'm not defending somebody just to defend him. That wreaks of intellectual dishonesty. I don't think Mick Cronin is a great coach. If you say he isn't a great coach I say, "yup, agree". I don't lie about it just because he coaches UC.

I don't think Pastner is a good coach either.


Mick has a much much better record against the Top 25 than Pastner and Mick coached UC to the ncaa's in the toughest conference in the nation. I would take Mick Cronin over Pastner. yes.

(03-07-2015 11:14 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I'm not taking shots at Pastner. I have said all along I don't think he is a good coach.

You won 24+ games a year in a really really bad conference. At least you beat the teams you should have. That's something. But take Pastner's stats against top 25 (6-21 or whatever it is) and you see a different story.

So there really can only be two conclusions:
He isn't a very good coach.
or
He is a good coach, but those Memphis teams were 'paper tigers' if you excuse the pun.

You tell me.

yet he swept Rick Pitino's Louisville squad last season...and swept Kevin Ollie's defending national title squad this season.

folks said "hey, he can't beat ranked teams"

he beat 5 last season...

I get that we're having a down year, and it sucks...had we beaten Tulane and ECU, this season might look different...but it is what it is.

we have a killer class coming in next season, and our squad should look like:

PG - Kedren Johnson
G - Avery Woodson
G/F - Nick King
F - Austin Nichols
F - Dedric Lawson
------------
Pookie Powell
Randall Brodie
Markel Crawford
Trahson Burrell
KJ Lawson
Shaq Goodwin
D'Marnier Cunningham

if you can't win with this team, with these really talented kids I bolded, THEN Memphis may need to consider looking in another direction...but Pastner has earned a little rope with the last 4 seasons...graduating kids...maintaining a perfect APR...and high level recruiting.

Let me also remind many of you that Art Briles, who started off as an inexperienced project of a coach at Houston, has had a horrendous record against the Top 25 for a long time.
However, he has been getting better. The last 2 years Baylor won their conference. (including the year UCF beat them in the Fiesta Bowl)

(03-07-2015 11:21 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-07-2015 11:14 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I'm not taking shots at Pastner. I have said all along I don't think he is a good coach.

You won 24+ games a year in a really really bad conference. At least you beat the teams you should have. That's something. But take Pastner's stats against top 25 (6-21 or whatever it is) and you see a different story.

So there really can only be two conclusions:
He isn't a very good coach.
or
He is a good coach, but those Memphis teams were 'paper tigers' if you excuse the pun.

You tell me.

yet he swept Rick Pitino's Louisville squad last season...and swept Kevin Ollie's defending national title squad this season.

folks said "hey, he can't beat ranked teams"

he beat 5 last season...

I get that we're having a down year, and it sucks...had we beaten Tulane and ECU, this season might look different...but it is what it is.

we have a killer class coming in next season, and our squad should look like:

PG - Kedren Johnson
G - Avery Woodson
G/F - Nick King
F - Austin Nichols
F - Dedric Lawson
------------
Pookie Powell
Randall Brodie
Markel Crawford
Trahson Burrell
KJ Lawson
Shaq Goodwin
D'Marnier Cunningham

if you can't win with this team, with these really talented kids I bolded, THEN Memphis may need to consider looking in another direction...but Pastner has earned a little rope with the last 4 seasons...graduating kids...maintaining a perfect APR...and high level recruiting.

Avery Woodson isn't going to be starting next year.
1. Kedren Johnson
2.Trashon Burrell
3.Dedric Lawson
4. Austin Nichols
5. Shaq Goodwin

Kedren Johnson
Trashon Burrell
Dedric Lawson
Austin Nichols
Shaq Goodwin

I like your thinking...start your most talented players.

(03-07-2015 12:51 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  Kedren Johnson
Trashon Burrell
Dedric Lawson
Austin Nichols
Shaq Goodwin

I like your thinking...start your most talented players.

Dedric is unique because he really can play the 3