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bcunn3128 Away
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Post: #61
RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:05 PM)JCannon21 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:04 PM)adunifon Wrote:  Fact -- this team is not good.

Not as good as preseason rocket fans had thought. but then again when rockets have high expectations... well, you know the rest.

This is a .500 team. I'm now at peace with that. It took awhile to get over the disappointment. Hopefully we get a JUCO low post player for next season and TK's incoming freshmen class is as good as some think they will be. I'm looking forward to a "youth movement" next season with much more energy on the floor. Heck, start all 4 incoming freshmen.
01-21-2015 09:13 PM
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JCannon21 Offline
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
I have a few things that have been hampering this team, 1) The reliance on juice is weighing him down greatly, J.D. has been great offensively all year yet down the stretch he hardly touches the ball. 2) the teams biggest weakness is defense and the best defensive player (Lauf) is on the bench for 30 minutes a game. 3) Foul calls in critical points in any game have not gone our way, we saw it tonight, against central, and against western, even the kent commentators called a few phantom calls out tonight.
01-21-2015 09:13 PM
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JCannon21 Offline
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:13 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:05 PM)JCannon21 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:04 PM)adunifon Wrote:  Fact -- this team is not good.

Not as good as preseason rocket fans had thought. but then again when rockets have high expectations... well, you know the rest.

This is a .500 team. I'm now at peace with that. It took awhile to get over the disappointment. Hopefully we get a JUCO low post player for next season and TK's incoming freshmen class is as good as some think they will be. I'm looking forward to a "youth movement" next season with much more energy on the floor. Heck, start all 4 incoming freshmen.

I will say that stuckey does look like a great talent as does kurt hall. both seem to understand basketball and stuckeys left hand finds twine with frequency. never really been a jon jon fan which makes me that much more disappointed that lauf doesnt get the nod over him
01-21-2015 09:16 PM
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bcunn3128 Away
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Post: #64
RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:13 PM)JCannon21 Wrote:  I have a few things that have been hampering this team, 1) The reliance on juice is weighing him down greatly, J.D. has been great offensively all year yet down the stretch he hardly touches the ball. 2) the teams biggest weakness is defense and the best defensive player (Lauf) is on the bench for 30 minutes a game. 3) Foul calls in critical points in any game have not gone our way, we saw it tonight, against central, and against western, even the kent commentators called a few phantom calls out tonight.

Yeah it's just not there. Who knows exactly why? Now the question is can TK pull another rabbit out of hat in a few more seasons. This group brought Toledo basketball off life support, but has maxed out. Can he recruit to the level that gets us a MAC championship within the NEXT 3 seasons? I hope so.
01-21-2015 09:20 PM
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JCannon21 Offline
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:20 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:13 PM)JCannon21 Wrote:  I have a few things that have been hampering this team, 1) The reliance on juice is weighing him down greatly, J.D. has been great offensively all year yet down the stretch he hardly touches the ball. 2) the teams biggest weakness is defense and the best defensive player (Lauf) is on the bench for 30 minutes a game. 3) Foul calls in critical points in any game have not gone our way, we saw it tonight, against central, and against western, even the kent commentators called a few phantom calls out tonight.

Yeah it's just not there. Who knows exactly why? Now the question is can TK pull another rabbit out of hat in a few more seasons. This group brought Toledo basketball off life support, but has maxed out. Can he recruit to the level that gets us a MAC championship within the NEXT 3 seasons? I hope so.

You say that as if MACC is out of the question this year... Losing 3 conference games at a combined 13 points does not scare me. a few calls go different ways and a few more shots fall and we are looking at 0,1, or 2 conference losses rather than 3. They've played right there with everyone and eventually (optimistically) a call or a shot will go our way and the outcome will be different. Hard to win MACC without the byes but I refuse to believe that we couldn't beat western, central, or kent on any given night
01-21-2015 09:25 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
Coach K said after the game that if the team played as well against CMU and Western as they did against Kent, they would have won both of those games.

I don't think Lauf can score enough to get more minutes. At least for now.
01-21-2015 09:35 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:35 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Coach K said after the game that if the team played as well against CMU and Western as they did against Kent, they would have won both of those games.

I don't think Lauf can score enough to get more minutes. At least for now.

Our biggest complaint has been defense though.... And he's the best defensive player...
01-21-2015 09:41 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:35 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Coach K said after the game that if the team played as well against CMU and Western as they did against Kent, they would have won both of those games.

I don't think Lauf can score enough to get more minutes. At least for now.







Pointless for the coach to be making comments like that !! Pure speculation on his part !!
Bottom line, they are 2-3 in the MAC, with a tough game with BG coming up...
01-21-2015 09:44 PM
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bcunn3128 Away
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Post: #69
RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:25 PM)JCannon21 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:20 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:13 PM)JCannon21 Wrote:  I have a few things that have been hampering this team, 1) The reliance on juice is weighing him down greatly, J.D. has been great offensively all year yet down the stretch he hardly touches the ball. 2) the teams biggest weakness is defense and the best defensive player (Lauf) is on the bench for 30 minutes a game. 3) Foul calls in critical points in any game have not gone our way, we saw it tonight, against central, and against western, even the kent commentators called a few phantom calls out tonight.

Yeah it's just not there. Who knows exactly why? Now the question is can TK pull another rabbit out of hat in a few more seasons. This group brought Toledo basketball off life support, but has maxed out. Can he recruit to the level that gets us a MAC championship within the NEXT 3 seasons? I hope so.

You say that as if MACC is out of the question this year... Losing 3 conference games at a combined 13 points does not scare me. a few calls go different ways and a few more shots fall and we are looking at 0,1, or 2 conference losses rather than 3. They've played right there with everyone and eventually (optimistically) a call or a shot will go our way and the outcome will be different. Hard to win MACC without the byes but I refuse to believe that we couldn't beat western, central, or kent on any given night

True. I just no longer expect it, whereas at the beginning if this season I kinda did. Would be a pleasant surprise.
01-21-2015 09:45 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
No longer must see team. Looking at the stats that was some putrid free throw shooting. They are FREE

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01-21-2015 09:47 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:41 PM)JCannon21 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:35 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Coach K said after the game that if the team played as well against CMU and Western as they did against Kent, they would have won both of those games.

I don't think Lauf can score enough to get more minutes. At least for now.

Our biggest complaint has been defense though.... And he's the best defensive player...

PLUS Lauf will need to score more next season, so it'd be nice to see him find more confidence offensively NOW. I agree...he should be among the team leaders in minutes played.
01-21-2015 09:51 PM
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bcunn3128 Away
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:44 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:35 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Coach K said after the game that if the team played as well against CMU and Western as they did against Kent, they would have won both of those games.

I don't think Lauf can score enough to get more minutes. At least for now.







Pointless for the coach to be making comments like that !! Pure speculation on his part !!
Bottom line, they are 2-3 in the MAC, with a tough game with BG coming up...

I'm guessing he was a bit shell-shocked after the game? Honestly I don't think he has the answer. Not criticizing him--I think this team has gone "rogue" on him.
01-21-2015 09:55 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 09:55 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:44 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:35 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Coach K said after the game that if the team played as well against CMU and Western as they did against Kent, they would have won both of those games.

I don't think Lauf can score enough to get more minutes. At least for now.







Pointless for the coach to be making comments like that !! Pure speculation on his part !!
Bottom line, they are 2-3 in the MAC, with a tough game with BG coming up...

I'm guessing he was a bit shell-shocked after the game? Honestly I don't think he has the answer. Not criticizing him--I think this team has gone "rogue" on him.

" I think this team has gone "rogue" on him. " - might be an accurate assessment on your part...
01-21-2015 10:03 PM
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Post: #74
RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 10:03 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:55 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:44 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 09:35 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Coach K said after the game that if the team played as well against CMU and Western as they did against Kent, they would have won both of those games.

I don't think Lauf can score enough to get more minutes. At least for now.







Pointless for the coach to be making comments like that !! Pure speculation on his part !!
Bottom line, they are 2-3 in the MAC, with a tough game with BG coming up...

I'm guessing he was a bit shell-shocked after the game? Honestly I don't think he has the answer. Not criticizing him--I think this team has gone "rogue" on him.

" I think this team has gone "rogue" on him. " - might be an accurate assessment on your part...

Sadly there are some indicators. I'm hoping he gets renewed/refreshed next season when the team will mostly be freshmen and sophomores. Maybe he can mold that group from the ground up?
01-21-2015 10:06 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
The team that I saw in person against VCU and Duke is not a .500 MAC team. The post game comments from both games (from opposing fans and coaches) suggest we are NCAA tourney worthy that would give some teams a headache.

If that team can somehow figure it out by the MAC tournament, we'll be fine...
01-21-2015 10:09 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 10:09 PM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  The team that I saw in person against VCU and Duke is not a .500 MAC team. The post game comments from both games (from opposing fans and coaches) suggest we are NCAA tourney worthy that would give some teams a headache.

If that team can somehow figure it out by the MAC tournament, we'll be fine...

Why does a group of seniors need to figure it out when we are more than half way through the season?
01-21-2015 10:25 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 10:25 PM)temoxley Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 10:09 PM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  The team that I saw in person against VCU and Duke is not a .500 MAC team. The post game comments from both games (from opposing fans and coaches) suggest we are NCAA tourney worthy that would give some teams a headache.

If that team can somehow figure it out by the MAC tournament, we'll be fine...

Why does a group of seniors need to figure it out when we are more than half way through the season?

Exactly. 4 returning starters, 3 of whom are seniors. Unexplainable. Hence the growing frustration.
01-21-2015 10:30 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
The losses to Detroit and Oakland were the writing on the wall. A good Toledo team should win those games.

Looking ahead:

BUGS at home is a good matchup. At their place I don't think the Rockets could win.

Next, Miami at home should be doable.

After that, Northern has been winning at home, although they did lose to Kent 67-65. That could be a tough one.

Eastern has not done well on the road...except at Michigan....
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2015 10:58 PM by Toledo Football 1st.)
01-21-2015 10:52 PM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
KSU fan here. I know your frustration as we have had teams recently that should have been MAC contenders and they underachieved. As long as your guys don't quit, you will be fine. The MAC is so balanced this year there is really very little difference in being 2-3 versus 4-1 at this point. In about a week (after @BSU Saturday and vs. CMU next Wed) our schedule flips and gets really difficult, including a visit to your place. Stay patient and stay the course. It's a long season.

** Also, while I haven't seen a single minute of your season before tonight, and I cannot come to Juice Brown's defense, he had Derek Jackson stalking him all night. DJ is likely to be the MAC Defensive POY. So in my book, tonight you should give him a pass.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2015 12:07 AM by dannyb73.)
01-22-2015 12:01 AM
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RE: MBB: Toledo at Kent State game thread
(01-21-2015 10:30 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 10:25 PM)temoxley Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 10:09 PM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  The team that I saw in person against VCU and Duke is not a .500 MAC team. The post game comments from both games (from opposing fans and coaches) suggest we are NCAA tourney worthy that would give some teams a headache.

If that team can somehow figure it out by the MAC tournament, we'll be fine...

Why does a group of seniors need to figure it out when we are more than half way through the season?

Exactly. 4 returning starters, 3 of whom are seniors. Unexplainable. Hence the growing frustration.

i empathize with your frustration. it's been a kinda crappy season. the explanation is that basketball success has a lot to do with teamwork and chemistry. there are aspects of our teamwork that -some games- are excellent. we are capable of a lot of quick aggressive ball movement without lots of turnovers, for example. the problem is this team is learning how to lose better than how to win. fans tend to assume good juniors will be great seniors. often, guys peak as juniors. last year the team had good chemistry, more fire and confidence they would win close games (which grew as they did).

juice has been inconsistent, often great but occasionally lackadaisical, too often the guy he's matched up with seems to want it more. i love juice's game and ability, but this year he isn't maximizing his penetration skills and taking games over with the bounce. he's usually good, but makes more bad plays than last year.

drummond has gone from a glue guy to somewhat unglued. our least efficient offensive player. who also hasn't made the expected impact on the boards or defense. still, he plays hard and is a team leader. it's just he led better as a junior. last year's team chemistry had a place for him. today he was guarding brewer or manley. i haven't seen the box score but i bet those guys were their top scorers.

last year jonjon williams was able to be a part time gun off the bench. he didn't play as much but had the green light and his teammates looked for him. this year, he plays more but is the 5th option on the court. he scores in spurts but can't get in much of a rhythm. there was a first half possession when we swung the ball quickly and drummond got a pretty good look at an elbow 3, but jonjon was wide open for a short 3 in the corner. drummond chose not to swing the ball for a last pass and took (missed) the 3. last year drummond would have swung the ball to jonjon or matt smith or pearson and crashed the offensive boards. poor chemistry.

last year, when we needed a big hustle play we had pearson. we had a guy who wanted to win more than anyone else on either team. and he happened to be a great athlete. this year, we are not making as many hustle plays down the stretch of games. nobody seems unwilling to lose.

spoon is good and plays his game. he has probably been the only veteran who has improved both individually and as a team player, but he's a finisher and rebounder mostly, not a guy that initiates a lot of teamwork.

right now we are simply a team with similar talent to last year, but much less chemistry. it is a long season and coach k will earn his money down the stretch. something will have to give. hopefully, the changes will be positive. it might be as simple as a change in tempo or starting lineup.

on the flip side

today we saw the true nathan boothe. an excellent ball handler and passer who can be an offensive weapon if you run offense through him consistently. i bet both he and jonjon have great years next season.

stuckey mosley is on the cusp of being a real good scoring point guard. we may not see it till next year, but watch out.

lauf does not need to become a scorer. he needs to rebound, play defense, make foul shots and layups.

garber should have a red light outside of 12 feet. no way that guy on this team should be taking a 22 footer with 25 seconds on the shot clock.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2015 04:32 AM by pono.)
01-22-2015 04:28 AM
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