(01-19-2015 09:01 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 06:36 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 05:52 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 05:11 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  For once I actually agree with how this is working for the players. School is a lot more expensive than just tuition and a place to stay. As long as we don't get into paying these guys more and more and more, I don't see any issue with it. All schools that are able to do so should definitely join in on this.

How is school more expensive than tuition, books, room & board?

Transportation, food for when establishments on campus that requires a meal plan are not open, emergencies. These players more than likely cannot get a job due to practice, games, travel, and class. Not very great being stuck far away from home with $0.00 to your name. I am fortunate to have been able to come up with some money during college, but not all of these athletes are quite as privileged.

Where does a player need to go?

Food for when establishments on campus are not open? Is that even an issue anymore with all the chains on campus these days that accept "university currency"?

What emergencies? I mean, I think they should get full health care insurance, with the university picking up the deductible, but past that, what emergencies would pop up?

You say it's not very great being stuck away from home with no money, I say you were given an opportunity to have an education that many others couldn't afford because they too had no money to their name.

An athletic scholarship should be tuition (including costs associated with books and labs), room, board, and health insurance. Because those same woes you are talking about are present with academic scholarship kids, but there's nobody championing their cause.

.. Or try being a kid with no scholly, athletic or academic . . . . . Talk about no one championing a cause . . . . .

I don't have a problem with a modest increase in the amount given as part of a scholarship, but it is very easy to see this "full cost of attendance" leading to all kinds of problems. Conferences I would think would as a group put a figure on it for their conference members--- say $2000 or $3000 per year.

(01-19-2015 09:28 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  I don't have a problem with a modest increase in the amount given as part of a scholarship, but it is very easy to see this "full cost of attendance" leading to all kinds of problems. Conferences I would think would as a group put a figure on it for their conference members--- say $2000 or $3000 per year.

You do that and you'll be sued. See current list of lawsuits. Can't put a cap on it. Also I'm interested in does all sports get the stipend, I know the women will have to receive the same as well. also it may cost more to go to said school but you have to factor that schools can get and will get very creative with this. It truly is going to be a weird time. Boisters will still do the $$ handshakes. So I don't know how this will go.

You don't think the Sun Belt will put some type of amount on it for Sun Belt member schools?

(01-19-2015 09:01 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 06:36 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 05:52 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 05:11 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  For once I actually agree with how this is working for the players. School is a lot more expensive than just tuition and a place to stay. As long as we don't get into paying these guys more and more and more, I don't see any issue with it. All schools that are able to do so should definitely join in on this.

How is school more expensive than tuition, books, room & board?

Transportation, food for when establishments on campus that requires a meal plan are not open, emergencies. These players more than likely cannot get a job due to practice, games, travel, and class. Not very great being stuck far away from home with $0.00 to your name. I am fortunate to have been able to come up with some money during college, but not all of these athletes are quite as privileged.

Where does a player need to go?

Food for when establishments on campus are not open? Is that even an issue anymore with all the chains on campus these days that accept "university currency"?

What emergencies? I mean, I think they should get full health care insurance, with the university picking up the deductible, but past that, what emergencies would pop up?

You say it's not very great being stuck away from home with no money, I say you were given an opportunity to have an education that many others couldn't afford because they too had no money to their name.

An athletic scholarship should be tuition (including costs associated with books and labs), room, board, and health insurance. Because those same woes you are talking about are present with academic scholarship kids, but there's nobody championing their cause.

Transportation - Home. Some kids live thousands of miles away from home. Kids like to go to places besides their dorm or class.

Food - Yes it is an issue. I know its a crazy thought, but these restaurants do have business hours. Most close by 8 on campus. Can't use that money anywhere besides campus.

Emergencies - car troubles, laptop breaks

etc. - Soap, towels, laptop (essentially required for college now, crazy right?), plus anything that a 20 year old could need but the university cant provide due to improper benefits.

Kids on academic scholarships have this crazy privilege called free time to get a job. Athletes are not granted that opportunity. The athletes have class, which if you plan on finishing in the traditional four years, you have to take at least 5 classes per semester. They have practice, workouts, training room visits, team meetings, and traveling to games all added on to class. The kids on the academic scholarship don't exactly have quite that schedule.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Transportation - Home. Some kids live thousands of miles away from home. Kids like to go to places besides their dorm or class.

I like to bang supermodels, it just seems we don't always get what we like.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Food - Yes it is an issue. I know its a crazy thought, but these restaurants do have business hours. Most close by 8 on campus. Can't use that money anywhere besides campus.

I can't speak for other campuses, but I know Texas State had plenty of options up to like 1:00 in the morning. I just assumed all campuses were like that.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Emergencies - car troubles, laptop breaks

Schools have buses to get you to and from the dorm to classes, and computer labs are aplenty.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  etc. - Soap, towels, laptop (essentially required for college now, crazy right?), plus anything that a 20 year old could need but the university cant provide due to improper benefits.

No, laptops are not required. There are computer labs in every university, and the athletes have access in their study halls.

Thus far, the only thing you've shown that's a necessity is soap and towels.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Kids on academic scholarships have this crazy privilege called free time to get a job. Athletes are not granted that opportunity. The athletes have class, which if you plan on finishing in the traditional four years, you have to take at least 5 classes per semester. They have practice, workouts, training room visits, team meetings, and traveling to games all added on to class. The kids on the academic scholarship don't exactly have quite that schedule.

That's the first legit argument I've heard yet. The others are just about luxuries.

Re: Laptops, depending on the school and the major, they can be a requirement . . .
. . . . Speaking from experience here ... ..

(01-19-2015 10:00 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  You don't think the Sun Belt will put some type of amount on it for Sun Belt member schools?

Short answer no. Capping the amount could result in lawsuits ( not that it hasn't already). The only saving grace is that people agree they should get a little something ie full cost of attendance but most are adamant that they should not get paid. Attendance nation wide is down how long before the well runs dry from the TV networks. I expect the Wild West ( bigger schools (p-5) finding ways and loop holes to exploit this when it comes to this and I don't see it ending well.

(01-19-2015 10:38 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  Re: Laptops, depending on the school and the major, they can be a requirement . . .
. . . . Speaking from experience here ... ..

Unfortunately I had to go buy a laptop for my schooling too. Crazy.

(01-19-2015 08:04 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 07:58 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 07:18 PM)rknj8993 Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 06:36 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 05:52 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  How is school more expensive than tuition, books, room & board?

Transportation, food for when establishments on campus that requires a meal plan are not open, emergencies. These players more than likely cannot get a job due to practice, games, travel, and class. Not very great being stuck far away from home with $0.00 to your name. I am fortunate to have been able to come up with some money during college, but not all of these athletes are quite as privileged.

So, where did the money come from for all of these athletes I see walking around Appalachian State's campus to have those $400 headphones?

I'm not saying that everybody is in the same boat, but I certainly do not agree that athletes should be paid to play on top of receiving a free education.

I agree with you that they do not deserve to be payed for play. But being payed what the estimated cost of attendance is at the school is not a huge problem. All it should be that they receive is whatever the difference is between what they are already given in tuition, books, fees, and room/board. It might amount to a few hundred dollars over the year. In no way do I think athletes should be payed thousands of dollars in cash to play sports. That would ruin college athletics.

All well and good; however, what you're talking about is letting the "genie out of the bottle" . . . Once out, you can't put him back . .
And do you really think it'll end with the "estimated cost of attendance at the school?" It's not likely, over time the amount will more than likely rise

Nope, not a chance. It will only snowball.

This will be a slippery slope and will lead to either a split in FBS or more UAB type situations in ten years. Either that or the cost of education (through student fee increases) will be a larger percentage of athletic "revenue" for G5 programs.

Excuse me for not going all Chicken Little. The whole point is to do just enough to protect the status quo that is making so much money while avoiding lawsuits that started popping up as coaches' salaries ballooned to $4 million a year.

The cost of attendance will be regulated in a way that allows everyone in FBS to remain in the same ballpark and with caps. The cost could rise with inflation but so will the corresponding fees, TV money, ticket prices, etc.

The elite programs already have all the advantages they need over the rest of us when it comes to recruiting. They don't need or want to start an escalating bidding war for players among themselves.

There could be a handful of programs move up or down because of the costs and the benefits but they only way this creates anything drastic is if some conferences in FBS choose to not pay.

(01-20-2015 09:25 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  This will be a slippery slope and will lead to either a split in FBS or more UAB type situations in ten years. Either that or the cost of education (through student fee increases) will be a larger percentage of athletic "revenue" for G5 programs.

Understand what you're saying, I would point out though that UAB did not fail due to finances . .. theirs was a political demise . . .
But for those programs whose athletic income is already marginal, this could be bad news over time . . .

(01-20-2015 11:15 AM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 09:25 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  This will be a slippery slope and will lead to either a split in FBS or more UAB type situations in ten years. Either that or the cost of education (through student fee increases) will be a larger percentage of athletic "revenue" for G5 programs.

Understand what you're saying, I would point out though that UAB did not fail due to finances . .. theirs was a political demise . . .
But for those programs whose athletic income is already marginal, this could be bad news over time . . .

They didn't? What you need to understand is, it wasn't all "politics". The BOT can't be blamed for the poor play on the field and the empty seats in the stadium. UAB originally was the medical school of the University of Alabama and became a commuter school later when other curriculum was added. They have always been under the control of the UATBOT, unlike the way the Texas system operates. If the football program had carried their weight it would have survived.

(01-20-2015 11:43 AM)Beltfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 11:15 AM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 09:25 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  This will be a slippery slope and will lead to either a split in FBS or more UAB type situations in ten years. Either that or the cost of education (through student fee increases) will be a larger percentage of athletic "revenue" for G5 programs.

Understand what you're saying, I would point out though that UAB did not fail due to finances . .. theirs was a political demise . . .
But for those programs whose athletic income is already marginal, this could be bad news over time . . .

They didn't? What you need to understand is, it wasn't all "politics". The BOT can't be blamed for the poor play on the field and the empty seats in the stadium. UAB originally was the medical school of the University of Alabama and became a commuter school later when other curriculum was added. They have always been under the control of the UATBOT, unlike the way the Texas system operates. If the football program had carried their weight it would have survived.

They were bowl elegible and had a new head coach that was taking the program in the right direction. It had absolutely nothing to do with poor play.
As for empty seats, if the school wanted a certain number of seats filled, it should have stated that expectation and notified the fans that it was a requirement to keep the program alive. There is a reason this happened as quickly and quietly as possible.

(01-19-2015 09:28 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  I don't have a problem with a modest increase in the amount given as part of a scholarship, but it is very easy to see this "full cost of attendance" leading to all kinds of problems. Conferences I would think would as a group put a figure on it for their conference members--- say $2000 or $3000 per year.

I don't know. I think this is where you start having in fighting between the ADs, and then it takes forever for it to get done.
Lets take ACC schools...
Cost of attendance for schools like Georgia Tech, Miami, & Boston College are going to be considerably higher than Clemson, Virginia Tech, & Syracuse.
If you cap it at a number then the smaller town/rural schools have an advantage, because that money goes farther. You let the school dictate it, the larger market schools all of a sudden have wiggle room for a reimbursement gray area.
I think the cost of attendance will get approved, but the implementation rules will just get bogged down with no answer.

(01-19-2015 08:46 PM)SBEagle Wrote:  One thing to consider is where a school is located. Compare Ga Southern to Ga State. Probably cheaper in Statesboro than Atlanta. Does Southern then use this as a recruiting tool? Do we tell recruits your $200 stipend will go further here? Or does the NCAA pay differently based on cost of living?

This was addressed in an article I read (sorry, no link) about the autonomy vote in favor of this by the P5. I'm paraphrasing to the best of my recollection but it was something like "Of course, all P5 schools will have different stipend amounts based on the true cost of attendance at their particular school."

I'm sure the NCAA will have a formula in place so as to not allow this to be a competitive disadvantage for some schools versus others. Or, at least it SHOULD do so.

Some schools REQUIRE students to own a laptop. Arkansas State mandates you have an iPad.

(01-19-2015 10:23 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Transportation - Home. Some kids live thousands of miles away from home. Kids like to go to places besides their dorm or class.

I like to bang supermodels, it just seems we don't always get what we like.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Food - Yes it is an issue. I know its a crazy thought, but these restaurants do have business hours. Most close by 8 on campus. Can't use that money anywhere besides campus.

I can't speak for other campuses, but I know Texas State had plenty of options up to like 1:00 in the morning. I just assumed all campuses were like that.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Emergencies - car troubles, laptop breaks

Schools have buses to get you to and from the dorm to classes, and computer labs are aplenty.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  etc. - Soap, towels, laptop (essentially required for college now, crazy right?), plus anything that a 20 year old could need but the university cant provide due to improper benefits.

No, laptops are not required. There are computer labs in every university, and the athletes have access in their study halls.

Thus far, the only thing you've shown that's a necessity is soap and towels.

(01-19-2015 10:07 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Kids on academic scholarships have this crazy privilege called free time to get a job. Athletes are not granted that opportunity. The athletes have class, which if you plan on finishing in the traditional four years, you have to take at least 5 classes per semester. They have practice, workouts, training room visits, team meetings, and traveling to games all added on to class. The kids on the academic scholarship don't exactly have quite that schedule.

That's the first legit argument I've heard yet. The others are just about luxuries.

Needing to provide money for soap and towels implies that without these athletes attending college on scholarships, they would be forced to go without bathing.

(01-20-2015 11:43 AM)Beltfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 11:15 AM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 09:25 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  This will be a slippery slope and will lead to either a split in FBS or more UAB type situations in ten years. Either that or the cost of education (through student fee increases) will be a larger percentage of athletic "revenue" for G5 programs.

Understand what you're saying, I would point out though that UAB did not fail due to finances . .. theirs was a political demise . . .
But for those programs whose athletic income is already marginal, this could be bad news over time . . .

They didn't? What you need to understand is, it wasn't all "politics". The BOT can't be blamed for the poor play on the field and the empty seats in the stadium. UAB originally was the medical school of the University of Alabama and became a commuter school later when other curriculum was added. They have always been under the control of the UATBOT, unlike the way the Texas system operates. If the football program had carried their weight it would have survived.

Among Sun Belt fans, is there any interest in having UAB as a non-football member?