(01-09-2015 02:30 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Penn State adds a flagship school.
Cincinnati puts us in Ohio.
West Virginia

Pittsburgh already places us in portions of Ohio.

(01-09-2015 02:39 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:30 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Penn State adds a flagship school.
Cincinnati puts us in Ohio.
West Virginia

Pittsburgh already places us in portions of Ohio.

I totally agree. We need to expand to a new territory.

Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

I do not know that this is true statement, because money talks, when decisions are made. Imagine the awesome game match ups.

Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
North Carolina State
Syracuse
Wake Forest
West Virginia

Duke
Georgia Tech
Penn State
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Virginia
Virginia Tech

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:39 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:30 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Penn State adds a flagship school.
Cincinnati puts us in Ohio.
West Virginia

Pittsburgh already places us in portions of Ohio.

I totally agree. We need to expand to a new territory.

Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

Well, I am a realist and the best we could ever get would be PSU and Notre Dame. Real world Cincinnati and West Virginia.

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

That sounds like "we want a Lamborghini, but if that doesn't work out, we're totally getting a Hyundai"

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:39 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:30 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Penn State adds a flagship school.
Cincinnati puts us in Ohio.
West Virginia

Pittsburgh already places us in portions of Ohio.

I totally agree. We need to expand to a new territory.

Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

To follow up on my recent post:

Pitt's presence give the ACC access to (north)eastern Ohio.

One can argue (and I will) that Louisville's presence give the ACC (limited as it may be) access to southwestern Ohio.

Notre Dame, even in their FB independence with our 5-game-a-year arrangement, gives the ACC access to portions of Indiana, Michigan, Chicago (especially in BB) AND nationwide.

In fact, anytime Notre Dame and Louisville play a football game, the ACC would seem to get access into western Ohio.

So, given the knowledge that Lumber continues to drop on us, the ideal #16 is either:

Penn State
Northwestern
Indiana (ahead of Purdue)

Reality is its better to say with 15 members while ND elects to play indy FB. Now if ESPN determines that a Cincinnati membership would raise the value of the ACC's media deal such that every school gets a $2-3M bump -- great.

Remember that, IIRC, we broke even when we added Louisville, and Louisville is MUCH more valuable.

Otherwise, expanding just for expansion-sake doesn't add up.

(01-09-2015 02:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

That sounds like "we want a Lamborghini, but if that doesn't work out, we're totally getting a Honda Fit"

FIFY- at least make it a Japanese auto maker

(01-09-2015 02:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

That sounds like "we want a Lamborghini, but if that doesn't work out, we're totally getting a Hyundai"

UConn Men's basketball is in the same level as Duke and Louisville. And better than UNC and Syracuse.

UConn Women's basketball is one of a kind and beyond this world.

Since UConn can only be added with Notre Dame, we can forgive their average football program. Connecticut is the richest state in USA. Eventually the football program will improve with the shower of money.

(01-09-2015 03:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:39 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:30 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Penn State adds a flagship school.
Cincinnati puts us in Ohio.
West Virginia

Pittsburgh already places us in portions of Ohio.

I totally agree. We need to expand to a new territory.

Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

To follow up on my recent post:

Pitt's presence give the ACC access to (north)eastern Ohio.

One can argue (and I will) that Louisville's presence give the ACC (limited as it may be) access to southwestern Ohio.

Notre Dame, even in their FB independence with our 5-game-a-year arrangement, gives the ACC access to portions of Indiana, Michigan, Chicago (especially in BB) AND nationwide.

In fact, anytime Notre Dame and Louisville play a football game, the ACC would seem to get access into western Ohio.

So, given the knowledge that Lumber continues to drop on us, the ideal #16 is either:

Penn State
Northwestern
Indiana (ahead of Purdue)

Reality is its better to say with 15 members while ND elects to play indy FB. Now if ESPN determines that a Cincinnati membership would raise the value of the ACC's media deal such that every school gets a $2-3M bump -- great.

Remember that, IIRC, we broke even when we added Louisville, and Louisville is MUCH more valuable.

Otherwise, expanding just for expansion-sake doesn't add up.

I don't think we should waste two teams in one state except NC which is our headquarters.

If Auburn is a legit candidate (which I doubt), I'd add them in a heart beat. Same applies to PSU.

(01-09-2015 03:20 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

That sounds like "we want a Lamborghini, but if that doesn't work out, we're totally getting a Hyundai"

UConn Men's basketball is in the same level as Duke and Louisville. And better than UNC and Syracuse.

UConn Women's basketball is one of a kind and beyond this world.

Since UConn can only be added with Notre Dame, we can forgive their abysmal football program. Connecticut is the richest state in USA. Eventually the football program may improve with the shower of money.

FIFY

(01-09-2015 03:32 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 03:20 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

That sounds like "we want a Lamborghini, but if that doesn't work out, we're totally getting a Hyundai"

UConn Men's basketball is in the same level as Duke and Louisville. And better than UNC and Syracuse.

UConn Women's basketball is one of a kind and beyond this world.

Since UConn can only be added with Notre Dame, we can forgive their abysmal football program. Connecticut is the richest state in USA. Eventually the football program may improve with the shower of money.

FIFY

Abysmal only in the past 2 years because they are sad after being left alone. They should pick up pieces soon and get back to the good side.

(01-09-2015 03:20 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

That sounds like "we want a Lamborghini, but if that doesn't work out, we're totally getting a Hyundai"

UConn Men's basketball is in the same level as Duke and Louisville. And better than UNC and Syracuse.

UConn Women's basketball is one of a kind and beyond this world.

Since UConn can only be added with Notre Dame, we can forgive their average football program. Connecticut is the richest state in USA. Eventually the football program will improve with the shower of money.

So you think that Louisville is on the same level as Uconn and Duke, because Louisville has 3 national championships and Duke and Uconn each have 4 national championships?
You also seem to imply that Duke, Louisville and Uconn are on a higher level than UNC, even though UNC has 5 national championships, and none of the others have more than 4.

(01-09-2015 02:39 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:30 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Penn State adds a flagship school.
Cincinnati puts us in Ohio.
West Virginia

Pittsburgh already places us in portions of Ohio.

Pitt gets maybe into Youngstown and Steubenville, neither of which are attractive demographically. Cincinnati's Metro area includes Hamilton, Middletown, Dayton and northern Kentucky.

Penn State should be #15. It's an eastern school with an alumni base spread throughout the east coast, especially within the ACC footprint. Either Maryland will return to the ACC as #16 or WVU will beat Maryland to it.

ND will never give up it's autonomy.

(01-09-2015 03:20 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

That sounds like "we want a Lamborghini, but if that doesn't work out, we're totally getting a Hyundai"

UConn Men's basketball is in the same level as Duke and Louisville. And better than UNC and Syracuse.

UConn Women's basketball is one of a kind and beyond this world.

Since UConn can only be added with Notre Dame, we can forgive their average football program. Connecticut is the richest state in USA. Eventually the football program will improve with the shower of money.

We don't need another basketball school.

(01-09-2015 05:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 03:20 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 02:45 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Notre Dame is the no-brainer. Who comes with Notre Dame? The top candidate will be Texas. If they pass, then UConn.

That sounds like "we want a Lamborghini, but if that doesn't work out, we're totally getting a Hyundai"

UConn Men's basketball is in the same level as Duke and Louisville. And better than UNC and Syracuse.

UConn Women's basketball is one of a kind and beyond this world.

Since UConn can only be added with Notre Dame, we can forgive their average football program. Connecticut is the richest state in USA. Eventually the football program will improve with the shower of money.

We don't need another basketball school.

Not only do we not need another basketball school, another basketball school can't garner enough votes to enter the league with the exception of Kentucky or Indiana, and it might be close with KY.

I do not think you will not see another school added to the conference to the current 15 that is NOT a traditional or more recently approved ND partner.

For all practical purposes, Notre Dame, FSU, and the majority of the NC schools have to be accepting of the addition. Theoretically each vote is equal, but that's not really the case.

1. Those with an existential stake in the addition have more weight with the other schools in a voting situation. (BC and UConn), (Pitt, VT and UVa and WVa), (Clemson and SC), (FSU and Miami and Florida)
2. The football budget schools have to be accepting and see value to their football program in the addition
3. The basketball budget schools have to be accepting of the continuing dilution of home and away games
4. Everyone will want at least $2 million more per year to add anyone - that's $30 million in value plus the near $30 million that the addition will take from the league as a share in the near future. That means the addition has to add about $60 million a year to the tv contract - who does that for the ACC?
a. Texas, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida make this grade - not many schools and almost all very happy where they are
b. WVa, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Auburn, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Kansas - they will cover their share, but make the ACC probably just $1 million extra per team
c. Cincy, Iowa State, TCU, Navy, and a few others might break even.
d. Tulane, UConn, UCF, and some others mentioned likely would not break even.

(01-09-2015 10:35 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 10:11 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 07:04 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 06:32 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  As long as MD was in the ACC, West Virginia had no chance in hell. With MD gone, their existential blackball vote against MD is gone. Va's is still in place. If the no's can be kept to Va, Duke, and GT, West Va would have a shot, but I really think they are more likely to be an 18th, rather than a 16th school and going to 18 while unlikely, assumes the break-up of the B-12. With a broken B-12 you end up with West Va., if perhaps Texas joins like ND, but brings along a partner like TCU on a full basis. If Texas is in, then TCU becomes the most palatable Texas based school to add with Texas as TT and Baylor present issues.

As for the Tennessee v. Auburn issue - it's not close, Tennessee would add a great deal more to the ACC than Auburn. Auburn's media footprint already overlaps GT's, Georgia's, and Bama's - essentially you are looking at adding a market in Nashville, Memphis, and Knoxville, vs. adding markets in Birmingham, Mobile, and Montgomery. Western NC, west of Asheville is already UT territory more than it is UNC or NC State.

If WV still has any emphatic no votes, then I say don't rock the boat and drive them into the arms of the B1G. Uconn has a few emphatic no votes too so put them in the same bucket. Invite the one that everyone can live with - Cincinnati. Not a barn burner but expansion will be a winner if paired with ND. Conference solidarity is important. Then again, maybe the WVU no votes would be reversed if they were paired with ND. All this is conjecture anyway.

I wont go as far as saying that WV will never be in the BIG, but I will say that there are about 40 schools east of the Mississippi, including all 15 Acc schools, 14 SEC schools, 8 Ivy League Schools and some AAC schools who would get an invite first.

WVa can never get into the B10. Not happening. The old guard ACC bias against WVa is rooted in what WVa did back in the 1950's supporting the bowl ban, and sticking it to MD and Clemson when MD and Clemson didn't want them in the conference to start. WVa remains a hell hole to get into from the rest of the ACC. Getting there in winter makes getting to Blacksburg or Clemson look easy. That's a real issue.

WVa has two logical homes - the SEC and the ACC.

The problem is that WVa has a mission to educate all the kids in the WVa so it's not a competitive admission situation. Academically they are like Appalachian State, Radford, UNC-G, - a solid State institution, but not elite - while there is research, they are there to educate everyone in WVa, whereas everyone else in the ACC has a mission to educate a segment of the elite in their state - be it liberal arts, STEM, graduate education, professional education.

The deal with giving the governor's daughter an unearned Master's degree really set WVa back with UVa and Duke. GT has obvious issues because of the calculus requirement at GT. A WVa invite would probably come with academic strings (although you might make the case UNC needs a few strings).

Actually Iowa st got a direct flight straight from Ames into Morgantown for the game tomorrow, and the weather doesn't get much worse in WV then it has this week

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/LYM33.../KAMW/KMGW

One of the things that WVU has tried to do since joining the big 12 is to encourage schools to bring their teams (especially football) and their traveling parties to fly into Clarksburg WV instead of Pittsburgh. Clarksburg is about a 25 min drive from Morgantown and the airport their is a little bigger then the one in Morgantown. Pretty sure all the away teams except for Maryland, which is busing to WV, is doing that for football next year.

Agree completely about WVU siding with the southern conference instead of Maryland and the travel issues as being the reason for exclusion in decades past. I've heard a former WVU bball coach say that Duke almost had a plane crash coming back from Morgantown in the early 1960s. Duke has played some bball games in charleston against WVU but don't think they have played in Morgantown since.

I find the Maryland comments in this thread to be really interesting because although they opposed WVUs entry once, I was under the impression that they were one of the few supporters of WVUs in the post 2000 ACC expansion era.

Jackson

(01-08-2015 05:22 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 02:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 02:32 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 02:08 PM)ken d Wrote:  I would say that it's highly unlikely that any P5 school would move to the ACC.

Ken, you ever heard of West Virginia?

Yes. A pretty state, just east of Kentucky. Why do you ask?

They would leave the B12 in an instant if they had an invitation and were able to get by the GOR.

Not sure that's true at all when Luck was the AD but Luck's replacememt spent many years in the ACC office so attitudes might change. From the outside looking in, the ACC is made up of a lot of private schools, urban schools and schools were basketball is the top priority of the athletic department. Outside of Clemson and va tech, I don't see many schools even remotely like WVU. I could see your membership being more interested in Uconn or Cincinnati. They seem to fit the profile of what your looking for a little better.

Jackson