WMU Broncos

Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
What if...
Author Message
brovol Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,947
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 181
I Root For: WMU/ARMY
Location:
Post: #41
RE: What if...
The whole “playoff” is a brilliantly orchestrated propaganda laced manipulation of the minds which began many years ago when the big conferences began to load themselves with all the power, as if they should have all the decision making authority. It worked well enough that now even MAC alumni accept the concept that their school and conference, even though in the same division of football, are not worthy of being treated equally.
01-13-2015 03:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Dirty Ernie Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,955
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 81
I Root For: WMU
Location: Paw Paw
Post: #42
RE: What if...
Equal smeeeequal.

Maybe in theory. Practice, not so much.
01-13-2015 07:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BCBronco Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,627
Joined: Jan 2007
Reputation: 58
I Root For: WMU
Location: Michigan
Post: #43
RE: What if...
I really don't understand the dissatisfaction with the college football playoff system. To me it mirrors capitalism. The rich get richer, the powerful get more powerful. The poor get poorer and powerless lose even more power.

And since I am an American and I fully buy into capitalism and all of its inherent inequities, I buy into the college football playoff system and all its inherent inequities.

In other words, I am happy with how the American capitalist system works and therefore I am happy with how the college football playoff system works. 04-rock
01-13-2015 09:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bostonbronco Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,198
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 52
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #44
RE: What if...
I just don't care for monopolies.
01-13-2015 09:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Dirty Ernie Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,955
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 81
I Root For: WMU
Location: Paw Paw
Post: #45
RE: What if...
We are all equal. Some are just more equal than others.
01-13-2015 09:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BCBronco Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,627
Joined: Jan 2007
Reputation: 58
I Root For: WMU
Location: Michigan
Post: #46
RE: What if...
(01-13-2015 09:24 PM)bostonbronco Wrote:  I just don't care for monopolies.

Aren't monopolies the result of free market and unfettered capitalism? I think monopolies represent the best of pure market capitalism and should be honored and celebrated! Keep the government off of the backs of the makers!
01-13-2015 11:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Dirty Ernie Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,955
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 81
I Root For: WMU
Location: Paw Paw
Post: #47
RE: What if...
Unfettered capitalism is an economic construct but as with all systems the outcomes are variable. There is a potential for abuse. That is why we also have political systems.

But in the case of big time sports the economic and political systems seem to be one and the same. And the outcomes are acceptable to the consumers mostly. So it is what it is.

In the case of a talented individual, like a track athlete, if they are the fastest miler they will run in the Olympics. But it is hard to put that together in a team context.

Can WMU beat MSU and Ohio State next fall? The opportunity is there but the reality is that is a tough row to hoe. Would access to the huge money flows help us? Yes. Will we get access to that? Dream on.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2015 07:41 AM by Dirty Ernie.)
01-14-2015 07:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MajorHoople Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,245
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 176
I Root For: WMU Broncos
Location: Waldo, Read, Hyames
Post: #48
RE: What if...
We haven't been in the "same division" as Big Ten, SEC, et al for years (BCS vs. FBS).

To think that our football program is on - or ever will be on - the same footing as Ohio State, Alabama, Oregon, etc. is ludicrous.
01-14-2015 07:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Doo Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,016
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 36
I Root For: WMU
Location:
Post: #49
RE: What if...
The goal should always be to be the best in you "class" or "distinction" or "grouping" or whatever term you want to use.

WMU should only be focused on being the best in the MAC West, followed by the MAC as a whole (and of course directional Michigan schools, but that occurs with the MAC West goal). Focusing energy on anything else is a misallocation(sp) of effort.
01-14-2015 08:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Chipdip2 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,663
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 64
I Root For: America
Location: Planet Earth
Post: #50
RE: What if...
It's great to get MSU at Waldo, but I'm sure we're paying them at least 450k for coming, so in spite of a full house, it will be a wash at best financially.

So we need two more payday games. Minny, Purdue, Indy, Illy, Rutgers, Iowa State, BYU, Virginia, Vandy, Utah, Wash St., UConn, Penn St., Wake Forest, and several others would have been nice alternatives. Playing the #1 team in the land, not so much.
01-14-2015 11:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brovol Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,947
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 181
I Root For: WMU/ARMY
Location:
Post: #51
RE: What if...
(01-13-2015 09:13 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  I really don't understand the dissatisfaction with the college football playoff system. To me it mirrors capitalism. The rich get richer, the powerful get more powerful. The poor get poorer and powerless lose even more power.

And since I am an American and I fully buy into capitalism and all of its inherent inequities, I buy into the college football playoff system and all its inherent inequities.

In other words, I am happy with how the American capitalist system works and therefore I am happy with how the college football playoff system works. 04-rock

You are looking at me in a cage, while poking a stick through the bars, aren’t you BC?

.....But, if your analogy is on, then why doesn’t our big powerful government "fix" it, like it takes care of everything else? Answer: Because both the NCAA and our federal government are coconspirators in this mass media propaganda game of shaping American's views, values, and understandings as to how things should work.

For any intelligent person to think that if you have 12 conferences in division 1A, all playing against each other, operating under the same rules, but the schools for only 5 of those conferences will be given VIP status in terms of a "playoff", or with respect to the money making bowls in general, that such a format is a "good thing" at all, that person would have to be either drugged or brainwashed.

And by the way BC, I know you agree with me....
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2015 01:05 PM by brovol.)
01-14-2015 01:05 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MajorHoople Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,245
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 176
I Root For: WMU Broncos
Location: Waldo, Read, Hyames
Post: #52
RE: What if...
NCAA has next to nothing to do with CFB playoff.

If NCAA tries to tell "P5s" what to do they'll split off and do what they want anyway.
01-14-2015 01:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brovol Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,947
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 181
I Root For: WMU/ARMY
Location:
Post: #53
RE: What if...
(01-14-2015 07:40 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Unfettered capitalism is an economic construct but as with all systems the outcomes are variable. There is a potential for abuse. That is why we also have political systems.

But in the case of big time sports the economic and political systems seem to be one and the same. And the outcomes are acceptable to the consumers mostly. So it is what it is.

In the case of a talented individual, like a track athlete, if they are the fastest miler they will run in the Olympics. But it is hard to put that together in a team context.

Can WMU beat MSU and Ohio State next fall? The opportunity is there but the reality is that is a tough row to hoe. Would access to the huge money flows help us? Yes. Will we get access to that? Dream on.

I agree. If college football were professional football, and thus a private entity, I would agree that this is fair, and let the fittest programs survive, and make the most money. But it isn’t private enterprise. This is quasi-government operation, and all schools within the same division of the NCAA should have equal access, based upon objective criteria. I wish football hade the same method that NCAA hockey does with the pairwise rankings.
01-14-2015 01:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brovol Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,947
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 181
I Root For: WMU/ARMY
Location:
Post: #54
RE: What if...
(01-14-2015 07:58 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  We haven't been in the "same division" as Big Ten, SEC, et al for years (BCS vs. FBS).

To think that our football program is on - or ever will be on - the same footing as Ohio State, Alabama, Oregon, etc. is ludicrous.

No one arguing that we are. They have larger athletic budgets, bigger programs, more exposure, money, etc. And, yes, they are better athletically. So what? If you and I were creating a football league from scratch, would we both agree that the rules should apply equally for all schools, both on the field and off? That’s how it was many years ago.....why shouldn’t it be now?

Our schools are not on the same footing now, but we should be able to get there without being handicapped by official rules or policies which are designed to keep the conferences which are perceived to be on top now, at the top forever, whether they are in fact better or not. This format is crap.

Major, I appreciate your opinions, and know you are a solid Bronco, have been, and will be forever. You always have good insight. But for the life of me, there are times I don’t understand you stance. This is one of those times. WMU, the MAC, and the other non-BCS schools are getting screwed, and have been. Any you endorse it. If those power conferences want to have their own division, let them. But let’s not mix the divisions. Let them play only themselves. And screw each other instead of screwing us. The Walmart schools will eventually be ultimate elite, have all the money, and the rest of the power conference schools will scream foul, just as I am now. Moreover, that Division will have very little to do with academics, and will eventually be faced with admitting that. Give them their pot of frigging gold! But let’s quit pretending what they are doing now makes any sense whatsoever!
01-14-2015 01:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hiller4Hyz09 Offline
Bronco Addict
*

Posts: 13,360
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 174
I Root For: WMU
Location:
Post: #55
RE: What if...
Does anyone know where Jack streidl's plaque is in UA? From what I heard, this was one epic man. Did he really punch a shark in the face?? Now THAT is elite and nekton!
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2015 06:21 PM by Hiller4Hyz09.)
01-14-2015 06:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MajorHoople Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,245
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 176
I Root For: WMU Broncos
Location: Waldo, Read, Hyames
Post: #56
RE: What if...
(01-14-2015 06:21 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  Does anyone know where Jack streidl's plaque is in UA? From what I heard, this was one epic man. Did he really punch a shark in the face?? Now THAT is elite and nekton!

I knew Jack Streidl for about forty years until his passing, we are still close to members of his family.

Never heard about him punching a shark in the face.

If anybody could do it and survive, it would've been him - a Man's Man who was loyal to WMU all his life after coming down from Menominee.
01-14-2015 06:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Chipdip2 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,663
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 64
I Root For: America
Location: Planet Earth
Post: #57
RE: What if...
We can have all the dissatisfaction in the world. That game was the highest rated cable broadcast of all time, and that's all THEY need to know. If they think that broadening the field will increase those ratings numbers $$$ it will happen.

As we all know it has nothing to do with the kids on the field, or the fans wants, it has everything to do with extracting the most money.
01-15-2015 01:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Dirty Ernie Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,955
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 81
I Root For: WMU
Location: Paw Paw
Post: #58
RE: What if...
(01-15-2015 01:07 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  We can have all the dissatisfaction in the world. That game was the highest rated cable broadcast of all time, and that's all THEY need to know. If they think that broadening the field will increase those ratings numbers $$$ it will happen.

As we all know it has nothing to do with the kids on the field, or the fans wants, it has everything to do with extracting the most money.

Whether you go top 8, top 12, or maybe even top 16 at that level you can get good actual attendence, and good viewer numbers. The economic case has to take into account the relative values of "playoffs" vs. "bowls" for teams #5-12 or 16.

Somehow I think if you call the games playoffs they will be better attractions than bowls.

And then, obviously, teams playing extra games as they advance, that is a straight increase. But, would a fan base be willing to attend extra games if they are not top 4 games?
01-15-2015 04:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
toddjnsn Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,553
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation: 154
I Root For: WMU, MAC
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Post: #59
RE: What if...
Quote:Our schools are not on the same footing now, but we should be able to get there without being handicapped by official rules or policies which are designed to keep the conferences which are perceived to be on top now, at the top forever, whether they are in fact better or not. This format is crap.

To the degree of having P5 conference champs always be in BCS Bowls -- I can understand that. If there was an equal about of fan-base for all conferences (more or less) -- I would be less understanding of it -- but there'd still be something there: They're better. Better SoS, year in, year out. With the Big East as a P5, yes, a Great Year for the MAC, or a good year for the MW would put them above them -- yeah. I guess you could Technically say "best team of the 5 best rated conferences go" -- but then you still have the fan-base problem which brings in money for All of D1A football.

The issue is making the D1A football money Shared between P5s, leaving the G5s out. That, I have objections to. Those "unofficial" votes by coaches that creep up toward leaving the G5s out of non-conf play -- along with that money separation -- SCREAMS for a separate division

When most conferences go 9 Conf Games, and only 3 non-conf (with 1 of the 3 forcing another P5 team) -- and the bowl situation of P5 vs P5, and G5 vs G5 for 90% of them -- I would rather have a SEPARATE DIVISION. Because basically, in reality, it pretty much puts us at a D1AA level anyway. Mine as well have our own. Soon the American Athletic won't have all those P5 bowl matchups inherited from being the Big East, and they'll just have 1, maybe 2. So with all that going in that direction without any changes to equalize it in any way....

.... I'd rather see us going D1G (General) -- with our own playoff, with P5s playing us 1 non-conf game a year by doing so, and forcing SOME money down to D1G level. It would be a good compromise and both would be happy.

Nay you say?! Well, how would our season be any different? Or most mid-majors? You have a game non-conf, sometimes 2, against a P5 to rake in attendance $$... play a D1AA, then the rest G5s, and even in a bowl a G5.

I'd like to see a G5 12-team playoff. The P5's happy because they are sectioned off for their own importance, cutting off D1AAs from their schedule, but having to play just 1 G5 -- and making some of their proceeds trickle down to us.

I guess the argument against that would be: People would follow the G5 teams less. My response? Not really, as long as it didn't affect television/ESPN-streaming situations. Most people see them as 'separate' in many ways anyway.
01-15-2015 04:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.