The tale of two coaches:

Lose the players (their hearts, their commitment, their faith in you...), lose the game. Lose the game, lose the revenue (tickets, etc). Lose the revenue, lose the boosters. Lose the boosters, lose the admin. Lose the admin, lose the job.

Conversely; Win the admin, win the job. Win the job, win the boosters. Win the boosters, win the revenue (recruiting, ast. coaches, etc). Win the revenue, win the game. Win the game, win the players. Win the players, and you win as a coach.

This has been the tale of our two coaches, Pastner and Fuente. The goal of coaching is to win the players (their hearts, their dedication to your leadership, their commitment, their pride, etc.). Everything hangs on the success or failure of winning the players. In that sense, it is an occupation of love. Being a good recruiter does not mean squat if you cannot win their hearts.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

(12-21-2014 03:33 PM)tigerscane Wrote:  Look we want him to succeed, we want to win ok, But He has yet to develop Iverson who has shown he has way more talent than Shaq/ Hawkins and yet he keeps him Buried on the bench....Yes he beat SC Upstate, Yes he beat ORU....Bravo, Bravo....Now let's see what he does against SMU with Larry Brown...You can talk UConn and the AAC is down, right, Well lets see what he can do against UConn this year....He will have to prove he can really coach this year...Everytime he goes up against a Quality Top Ranked Team, more time than not he not only gets beat but we get Curb Stomped, and then a Flood gate of Excuses will follow from everyone that's praising him right now...at some point you have to be able to coach and Beat more regularly Quality Top Ranked Teams.....It as simple as that...All anyone is saying....University of Memphis, Delta's Team...The World Is Ours Memphis....

If Iverson is making mental mistakes, he should be buried on the bench. This isn't a church league where everyone gets to play. Hawkins has talent as well so why are dissing him?

I guess you conveniently forget that he beat OSU, LSU, Louisville (twice), SMU, and Gonzaga last year. Don't forget the very close loss to FF-bound Florida.

Look at the macro picture. He has won a lot of games (including some big ones just mentioned), graduated players, kept them off the police ticker, and been a genuinely nice guy. The only failure you can continue push on is the lack of NCAA success yet other coaches have endured similar or even greater struggles which I mentioned.

Since he has been coach, these coaches have missed the tournament at least once:

John Calipari, Rick Barnes, Steve Alford, Brad Stevens, Shaka Smart, Roy Williams, Mike Anderson, Mick Cronin, John Thompson III, Ben Howland, Jamie Dixon, Kevin Stallings, Dana Altman, Gregg Marshall, Tom Crean and I can keep going.

As far as developing players, we wouldn't care what happened if he had taken the team to the sweet sixteen or better. Plus, many of you don't give him credit for Will Barton's success here so why would you all of sudden give him credit for Iverson if he started playing great?

Many of you need to look in the mirror and question your motivations for the criticism because much of it is far harsher than it should be given the results he has provided.

(12-21-2014 04:47 PM)marktheapostle Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 03:33 PM)tigerscane Wrote:  Look we want him to succeed, we want to win ok, But He has yet to develop Iverson who has shown he has way more talent than Shaq/ Hawkins and yet he keeps him Buried on the bench....Yes he beat SC Upstate, Yes he beat ORU....Bravo, Bravo....Now let's see what he does against SMU with Larry Brown...You can talk UConn and the AAC is down, right, Well lets see what he can do against UConn this year....He will have to prove he can really coach this year...Everytime he goes up against a Quality Top Ranked Team, more time than not he not only gets beat but we get Curb Stomped, and then a Flood gate of Excuses will follow from everyone that's praising him right now...at some point you have to be able to coach and Beat more regularly Quality Top Ranked Teams.....It as simple as that...All anyone is saying....University of Memphis, Delta's Team...The World Is Ours Memphis....

If Iverson is making mental mistakes, he should be buried on the bench. This isn't a church league where everyone gets to play. Hawkins has talent as well so why are dissing him?

I guess you conveniently forget that he beat OSU, LSU, Louisville (twice), SMU, and Gonzaga last year. Don't forget the very close loss to FF-bound Florida.

Look at the macro picture. He has won a lot of games (including some big ones just mentioned), graduated players, kept them off the police ticker, and been a genuinely nice guy. The only failure you can continue push on is the lack of NCAA success yet other coaches have endured similar or even greater struggles which I mentioned.

Since he has been coach, these coaches have missed the tournament at least once:

John Calipari, Rick Barnes, Steve Alford, Brad Stevens, Shaka Smart, Roy Williams, Mike Anderson, Mick Cronin, John Thompson III, Ben Howland, Jamie Dixon, Kevin Stallings, Dana Altman, Gregg Marshall, Tom Crean and I can keep going.

As far as developing players, we wouldn't care what happened if he had taken the team to the sweet sixteen or better. Plus, many of you don't give him credit for Will Barton's success here so why would you all of sudden give him credit for Iverson if he started playing great?

Many of you need to look in the mirror and question your motivations for the criticism because much of it is far harsher than it should be given the results he has provided.

There's nothing harsh about saying his offensive and defensive strategies are unclear.

There's nothing harsh by saying he's underschieved relative to having top 5 recruiting classes and top 20 preseason rankings.

There's nothing harsh about saying he communicates in a manner that doesn't breed much enthusiasm in the fan base.

I could go on.

The point is that for some people even slight observations about a negative is construed as hate and agenda and other ridiculous assertions.

(12-21-2014 04:39 PM)FarFromHome Wrote:  The tale of two coaches:

Lose the players (their hearts, their commitment, their faith in you...), lose the game. Lose the game, lose the revenue (tickets, etc). Lose the revenue, lose the boosters. Lose the boosters, lose the admin. Lose the admin, lose the job.

Conversely; Win the admin, win the job. Win the job, win the boosters. Win the boosters, win the revenue (recruiting, ast. coaches, etc). Win the revenue, win the game. Win the game, win the players. Win the players, and you win as a coach.

This has been the tale of our two coaches, Pastner and Fuente. The goal of coaching is to win the players (their hearts, their dedication to your leadership, their commitment, their pride, etc.). Everything hangs on the success or failure of winning the players. In that sense, it is an occupation of love. Being a good recruiter does not mean squat if you cannot win their hearts.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Funny, Fuente has one winning season in 3 years and he is the be all end all?

Many of the players who were major contributors were Porter's recruits.

Despite going 9-3, he is still below .500 for career winning %.

Tommy West went to a bowl his 3rd season as well.

(12-21-2014 04:52 PM)Malachi Wrote:  There's nothing harsh about saying his offensive and defensive strategies are unclear.

There's nothing harsh by saying he's underschieved relative to having top 5 recruiting classes and top 20 preseason rankings.

There's nothing harsh about saying he communicates in a manner that doesn't breed much enthusiasm in the fan base.

I could go on.

The point is that for some people even slight observations about a negative is construed as hate and agenda and other ridiculous assertions.

Wanting him to fired after 4 NCAA tourneys is slight negative observations? I don't think so...

Criticism with an objective tone is fair but many people have gone way beyond that scope and, yes, there is something more to it than just being a fan.

Calipari was just as repetitive (and most coaches are) so that is an ignorant argument.

One of the dumbest pro Pastner arguments on this board is the 4 straight NCAA and # of total wins in the first 5 years.

Recruits know better. The truth is that even in the year before Cal's great run in 2006, regardless of how deep our teams were advancing, Cal was signing players like DaJuan Wagner, Chris Massie, Darius Washington, Sean Banks, Shawne Williams, and CDR. He had a way of communicating to the fan base and to the players that made us feel connected to the team and the process.

Pastner started off with a bang when he signed players like Latavious Williams, Will Barton, and got Memphis' best talent with JJs class. It seems those days are over for him. Top 50 talent doesnt want to play for Memphis anymore unless they grew up in Memphis and we hire their dad. The average level of talent of our recruits is far below what it was 5 years ago.

As far as a communicator, Pastner is like a positive version of Billy Gilespie. He pushed the fan base away with his 'f**k off' way of communicating. Given how intelligent we give Pastner credit for being, he is telling us the exact same thing every day with his "Western Illinois Tech is a good team with good players…we just got to make shots.." all with the s**t eating grin on his face. To feed us that stupid drivel every time is the same thing as telling us the f**k off. Id have a lot more respect for the man if he would say exactly that.

For starters your in titled to your opinion and that's fine....But He got Curb Stomped by OSU, UCONN Twice, UVA, Hell everytime its mattered in the tourney he has gotten curb Stomped....And um No he didn't develop Will Barton, who isn't a fan of Josh's by the way, if you'd really like to know, but hey he gave us two years, but got better because he drove himself and had talent, and it was Wilson and Cyp, then Damon and Jack who helped Will as best they could....Iverson has talent and a lot of it....And Everyone knows I WAS Josh's biggest support for over 5 years, but I've seen things differently....Because I had to faith the hard truth and realize somethings just aren't right and haven't been for awhile....They have also gotten worse, and it hurts to say it, but sometimes the truth hurts.....I really do hope he wins big here and shows us all up, But....He has to be able to beat more regular Quality Top Ranked Teams, and Develop our young guys....Again He got Stomped by UConn/OSU/ VCU/ UVA/ St. Louis so for everytime you wanna pull out those C-USA wins and Auto Tourney Bids in a weak league we Dominated, yet get Smacked down everytime in 1st and 2nd round of the Tourney, and believe in your heart of hearts, that he is the man for this job, and we might not be in trouble as a program then you go right ahead.....Again your opinion and that's fine....But we have ours, and we have Major concerns as we should....University of Memphis, Delta's Team....The World Is Ours Memphis....

(12-21-2014 05:01 PM)marktheapostle Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 04:52 PM)Malachi Wrote:  There's nothing harsh about saying his offensive and defensive strategies are unclear.

There's nothing harsh by saying he's underschieved relative to having top 5 recruiting classes and top 20 preseason rankings.

There's nothing harsh about saying he communicates in a manner that doesn't breed much enthusiasm in the fan base.

I could go on.

The point is that for some people even slight observations about a negative is construed as hate and agenda and other ridiculous assertions.

Wanting him to fired after 4 NCAA tourneys is slight negative observations? I don't think so...

Criticism with an objective tone is fair but many people have gone way beyond that scope and, yes, there is something more to it than just being a fan.

Calipari was just as repetitive (and most coaches are) so that is an ignorant argument.

People want him gone because those 4 appearances are most likely his ceiling here and realize it. Make a change now before this program reaches a point that becomes extremely difficult to rebuild from.

Ignorant? Strong word. At least cal would say something insightful with his repetitive coach speak.

Still waiting on pastner to do the same.

It is what it is.

(12-21-2014 04:56 PM)marktheapostle Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 04:39 PM)FarFromHome Wrote:  The tale of two coaches:

Lose the players (their hearts, their commitment, their faith in you...), lose the game. Lose the game, lose the revenue (tickets, etc). Lose the revenue, lose the boosters. Lose the boosters, lose the admin. Lose the admin, lose the job.

Conversely; Win the admin, win the job. Win the job, win the boosters. Win the boosters, win the revenue (recruiting, ast. coaches, etc). Win the revenue, win the game. Win the game, win the players. Win the players, and you win as a coach.

This has been the tale of our two coaches, Pastner and Fuente. The goal of coaching is to win the players (their hearts, their dedication to your leadership, their commitment, their pride, etc.). Everything hangs on the success or failure of winning the players. In that sense, it is an occupation of love. Being a good recruiter does not mean squat if you cannot win their hearts.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Funny, Fuente has one winning season in 3 years and he is the be all end all?

Many of the players who were major contributors were Porter's recruits.

Despite going 9-3, he is still below .500 for career winning %.

Tommy West went to a bowl his 3rd season as well.

Not "the be all end all" just a really good coach.

You obviously did not understand what I meant by winning/losing players. I even put in parenthetical explanations and you still missed it.

And Fuente still got a raise and a contract extension. I wonder why?

Good for Tommy.

And it ain't what it ain't.

Josh should do something like this....Keep Keelon on staff to keep the Lawsons, We know this right?....But make a few changes to his staff for starters...Keep Keelon, then try his best to get Miles Simon and A good X and O's Asst to Run the plays and a system and Josh along with Simon and Keelon work their tales off acquiring more talent and letting Miles/ Keelon and the other new asst develop them and that way he can do all the public speaking and promoting and let his staff do the heavy lifting and hey he still would get credit....That covers up his weaknesses, and would be a very smart move on his part....But would be would be the bigger question....University of Memphis, Delta's Team....The World Is Ours Memphis...