2005-08 had never happened? If we had hired another Tic Price, Mo Iba, Wayne Yates or had more of Larry's final years?

What if we had more of the embarrassment of life with Dana Kirk with scandalous academics and rumors of gambling and point shaving. Don't accuse me of accepting or embracing mediocrity, I'm talking about what's more real than we care to admit.

No doubt Josh has not taken us where we wanted to go or even where we think we deserve to go. But our history has been a roller-coaster. Its been full of bad choices, of flashes of brilliance of quick returns to reality, of disappointments. I have been among the earliest and staunchest supporters of Josh. I'm still not willing to throw him away but the shiny new has worn off and the innocence of his youth has disappeared. He is no longer the bright shooting star and the excuses we made in the the early years no longer apply.

I think firing him this year would be a mistake even if it later proves to be the right decision in the end. That may not make sense to a lot of people but I think he deserves the entire year to make something of this Hodge-podge of players he recruited. He got some splannin to do on that but his record even against marginal teams is worthy of patience. There is nothing we can do until after the season anyway.

You are actually asking people in here to look at something objectively. Are you insane? Too many agendas in here for that to ever happen.

2005-2008 did happen though. How about we take it a step further.

Let's pretend we didn't pour millions into basketball facilities, let's pretend we don't play in a $250 million dollar arena, let's pretend we don't pay a 2.65 million per season salary, let's pretend we have never had a top 50 recruiting class.

I'm all for supporting the coach, and looking at things in a different way. However, don't take away the run without everything else.

The top 10-20 facilities, pay, and everything else would still be enough for fans of any team to expect more.

If Arkansas State had what we have at our disposal they would expect more long term.

As for the agenda remark it goes both ways. To include this made up scenario.

(12-18-2014 06:12 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote:  2005-08 had never happened? If we had hired another Tic Price, Mo Iba, Wayne Yates or had more of Larry's final years?

What if we had more of the embarrassment of life with Dana Kirk with scandalous academics and rumors of gambling and point shaving. Don't accuse me of accepting or embracing mediocrity, I'm talking about what's more real than we care to admit.

No doubt Josh has not taken us where we wanted to go or even where we think we deserve to go. But our history has been a roller-coaster. Its been full of bad choices, of flashes of brilliance of quick returns to reality, of disappointments. I have been among the earliest and staunchest supporters of Josh. I'm still not willing to throw him away but the shiny new has worn off and the innocence of his youth has disappeared. He is no longer the bright shooting star and the excuses we made in the the early years no longer apply.

I think firing him this year would be a mistake even if it later proves to be the right decision in the end. That may not make sense to a lot of people but I think he deserves the entire year to make something of this Hodge-podge of players he recruited. He got some splannin to do on that but his record even against marginal teams is worthy of patience. There is nothing we can do until after the season anyway.

This board wouldn't be here is those years don't happen.

(12-18-2014 06:12 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote:  2005-08 had never happened? If we had hired another Tic Price, Mo Iba, Wayne Yates or had more of Larry's final years?

What if we had more of the embarrassment of life with Dana Kirk with scandalous academics and rumors of gambling and point shaving. Don't accuse me of accepting or embracing mediocrity, I'm talking about what's more real than we care to admit.

No doubt Josh has not taken us where we wanted to go or even where we think we deserve to go. But our history has been a roller-coaster. Its been full of bad choices, of flashes of brilliance of quick returns to reality, of disappointments. I have been among the earliest and staunchest supporters of Josh. I'm still not willing to throw him away but the shiny new has worn off and the innocence of his youth has disappeared. He is no longer the bright shooting star and the excuses we made in the the early years no longer apply.

I think firing him this year would be a mistake even if it later proves to be the right decision in the end. That may not make sense to a lot of people but I think he deserves the entire year to make something of this Hodge-podge of players he recruited. He got some splannin to do on that but his record even against marginal teams is worthy of patience. There is nothing we can do until after the season anyway.

(12-18-2014 06:12 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote:  2005-08 had never happened? If we had hired another Tic Price, Mo Iba, Wayne Yates or had more of Larry's final years?

What if we had more of the embarrassment of life with Dana Kirk with scandalous academics and rumors of gambling and point shaving. Don't accuse me of accepting or embracing mediocrity, I'm talking about what's more real than we care to admit.
...

Then Pastner probably wouldn't have been able to have the limited success he did, especially the recruiting successes. We're probably also in CUSA right now. And Fuente probably isn't the football coach.

(12-18-2014 06:12 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote:  2005-08 had never happened? If we had hired another Tic Price, Mo Iba, Wayne Yates or had more of Larry's final years?

What if we had more of the embarrassment of life with Dana Kirk with scandalous academics and rumors of gambling and point shaving. Don't accuse me of accepting or embracing mediocrity, I'm talking about what's more real than we care to admit.

No doubt Josh has not taken us where we wanted to go or even where we think we deserve to go. But our history has been a roller-coaster. Its been full of bad choices, of flashes of brilliance of quick returns to reality, of disappointments. I have been among the earliest and staunchest supporters of Josh. I'm still not willing to throw him away but the shiny new has worn off and the innocence of his youth has disappeared. He is no longer the bright shooting star and the excuses we made in the the early years no longer apply.

I think firing him this year would be a mistake even if it later proves to be the right decision in the end. That may not make sense to a lot of people but I think he deserves the entire year to make something of this Hodge-podge of players he recruited. He got some splannin to do on that but his record even against marginal teams is worthy of patience. There is nothing we can do until after the season anyway.

Think of it like you are the owner of a major corporation. You realize that a good percentage of your competition is doing better, has happier employees, there is better communication between them and all levels of management, and the bottom line is they make a lot more profit. So you made a couple of hires over the years that catapulted you to the very top. You got a taste of what its like to be the best and compete with the best. So the head guy moves on and you give a young prodigy the reigns. Over 6 years, you have gone from head hunting the very best talent to simply hiring serviceable employees. Everything…profits, customer satisfaction, communication, all way way down.
This level of basketball is a business. The head guy gets paid more than 2mil a year. Thats why it baffles me when people go off on anyone not going along with the happy clapper dance. No, we on this board are not management. But I would compare us to shareholders. We vote with our monetary support and our expressed satisfaction. It was a bad idea to hire Josh, and the powers that be should realize it and get rid of him ASAP. They should run this like the business that it is. They should be thinking of bringing us up in the eyes of potential recruits instead of flirting with making us a laughing stock to the nation by bringing in a leader that demands respect, excellence, and develops these young men as people and as basketball players.

Are you talking about the Tigers or the Grizz.
The Grizzlies are a business. The Tigers, not.

Really dumb

(12-18-2014 07:17 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  Are you talking about the Tigers or the Grizz.
The Grizzlies are a business. The Tigers, not.

If it wasn't a business college coaches would be making about 30-40 K a year in salary. Good lord man get a clue

I have more than few clues that you know nothing.

Coach can't just fire or hire a new roster at will, nor does he have a reserve squad to replace injured, sick, nonperforming players.

I'll leave it to bright guys like you to inform us as to how that makes no difference in the grand scheme of life.

D1 college basketball is a huge business. Are there really some people on this board that think otherwise??

(12-18-2014 07:26 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  I have more than few clues that you know nothing.

Coach can't just fire or hire a new roster at will, nor does he have a reserve squad to replace injured, sick, nonperforming players.

I'll leave it to bright guys like you to inform us as to how that makes no difference in the grand scheme of life.

Uh wrong again smart guy. We have 10 new players remember? We have guys that "mutually" decide to leave every year. The college coach has more control over a roster than a pro coach if you really look at it. Pro players have guarenteed contracts. College players scholarships are for only one year. Division 1 football and basketball are big time businesses. That's why we have these so-called "student athletes" all majoring in interdisciplinary studies instead of nuclear physics.

I also have a clue that there are quite a few intellectually challenged posters on this board that are confused by simple terms like professional and amateur.
Some times the lines get a little blurry, but they are not the same.

That's the whole problem with college sports in general. It is a business of sorts, but technically it is non-profit and supposedly a group of young college students playing another group of young college students from another school. It has grown into such a huge monster that it is very hard to tell the difference from where we sit.

How about we imagine if the rail road decided to build on the 2nd Chickasaw bluff. Would we have the University of Randolph Tigers, the Randolph Grizzlies?

Er...a huge part of our prime fan base came I the 1980s when the team had great success.

We are having good success right now...so while his is yet another attempt to paint the past several years as epically disappointing, not buying in to that self bashing style.

Also not arguing that we want our team to get even better, and back to the 1980s or late 2000s national level. We do want that. But this school has had very nice success for the better part of fifty years. A few times it has been even better than that.

Enjoy Saturday. Help our program get even better.

Or try some tired lame line as though this post means someone who is settling, as opposed to simply not willing to mock our own school.

How would St. Louis Cardinal fans react if they hadn't won 11 rings? This thread is gay. #mediocrityisthenewstandard

(12-18-2014 06:12 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote:  2005-08 had never happened? If we had hired another Tic Price, Mo Iba, Wayne Yates or had more of Larry's final years?

What if we had more of the embarrassment of life with Dana Kirk with scandalous academics and rumors of gambling and point shaving. Don't accuse me of accepting or embracing mediocrity, I'm talking about what's more real than we care to admit.

No doubt Josh has not taken us where we wanted to go or even where we think we deserve to go. But our history has been a roller-coaster. Its been full of bad choices, of flashes of brilliance of quick returns to reality, of disappointments. I have been among the earliest and staunchest supporters of Josh. I'm still not willing to throw him away but the shiny new has worn off and the innocence of his youth has disappeared. He is no longer the bright shooting star and the excuses we made in the the early years no longer apply.

I think firing him this year would be a mistake even if it later proves to be the right decision in the end. That may not make sense to a lot of people but I think he deserves the entire year to make something of this Hodge-podge of players he recruited. He got some splannin to do on that but his record even against marginal teams is worthy of patience. There is nothing we can do until after the season anyway.

Ok. Back away from the ledge.

A. 2005-2008 did happen so you and whoever else does it need to quit arguing for josh using hypotheticals. When you start using hypotheticals to argue the merits of a coach then that means there aren't many true positives to support your argument.

B. Throw him away? Seriously? The dude will leave here an insanely wealthy man who is set for life.

C. He isn't getting fired this year so cool it. I would say at the very least the Tigers will have to keep up their current performance until the end of the 2015/16 season for josh to be canned. Way too much money owed to him.

D. Why are you using the past low spots of our program to prop up the crappy record of our current coach?

Quote:D. Why are you using the past low spots of our program to prop up the crappy record of our current coach?

What crappy record are you speaking of?