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(12-13-2014 07:43 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Monken will make them winners. Just give him some time.

Oh, I'm giving him 3-5 years, which is why I said assistant coaches that can recruit and coach. I know it's hard to find! 3-5 star caliber athletes that want to give 4 years minimum to serving their country after college but it can be done.

(12-13-2014 08:09 PM)John52168 Wrote:  

(12-13-2014 07:54 PM)MRBUTTONS Wrote:  

(12-13-2014 03:17 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Top 5 Rivalries in my book:

1. Army vs. Navy
2. Yankees vs. Red Sox
3. Duke vs. UNC
4. Alabama vs. Auburn
5. Michigan vs. OSU

:cheers:THANKS FOR YOUR LIST, but I gotta think Cubs vs Cardinals is about as heated as is humanly possible.

In baseball they are the #2 overall I would put them at 6.

Packers vs Bears

For most of the 115 years that they have been playing, Army has lead the series until 2005. Navy has won the last 13 games and now has the longest winning streak in the series.

It is sad, because if this trend keeps up it will not really be a rivalry so much as just a game that is a guarantee win for Navy.

I do not know why Army can no longer recruit while Navy still can, but in looking at when the downfall started (2002), the continual wars that we have had in the Middle East since 9-11 may be a factor. In other words, though there are athletes that are willing to serve in our nations military, there may not be so many of them that are willing to risk life or limb doing that service in ground operations. Army service today is a lot more dangerous than Navy, Air Force and even Marines. .

......Note as to why the US Marines are not used much anymore. The concept of a sea born landing is antiquated. Air Born and Air Assault has been the primary means of invasion for the past 40 years. The Marines are too small of a fighting force to be used in any other types of operations, so now they have been primarily been delegated to ship board security. Thus, it is not a dangerous a job as it used to be in comparison to today's Army.

(12-14-2014 01:23 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  For most of the 115 years that they have been playing, Army has lead the series until 2005. Navy has won the last 13 games and now has the longest winning streak in the series.

It is sad, because if this trend keeps up it will not really be a rivalry so much as just a game that is a guarantee win for Navy.

I do not know why Army can no longer recruit while Navy still can, but in looking at when the downfall started (2002), the continual wars that we have had in the Middle East since 9-11 may be a factor. In other words, though there are athletes that are willing to serve in our nations military, there may not be so many of them that are willing to risk life or limb doing that service in ground operations. Army service today is a lot more dangerous than Navy, Air Force and even Marines. .

......Note as to why the US Marines are not used much anymore. The concept of a sea born landing is antiquated. Air Born and Air Assault has been the primary means of invasion for the past 40 years. The Marines are too small of a fighting force to be used in any other types of operations, so now they have been primarily been delegated to ship board security. Thus, it is not a dangerous a job as it used to be in comparison to today's Army.

That was a well written thought out post. I'm sure there is a few coaches out there that can sell a few talented athletes on serving their country while playing football. The thing about the Army while yes we are the ones on the front lines we normally keep our officers behind us while the Air Force and Navy send their officers (pilots) behind enemy lines.

Navy/Army is not a rivalry. You have to win more than once every 14 years to have a rivalry.

In my somewhat uneducated opinion, it seems that Navy and Air Force have much more "traditional" athletic cultures, as in much less strict, than at West Point. Both Navy and Air Force football have gone through major, major scandals involving both academics and off the field behavior. Air Force bottomed out last year while Navy really didn't take much of a hit, though they hang around .500 mostly. It seems that Army is not as committed to "winning" in 1-A football as Air Force and Navy, and that's probably a good thing for both the West Point community and USMA overall.

Things are only going to get more difficult for Navy next year as they move to the AAC.

(12-14-2014 03:00 PM)John52168 Wrote:  

(12-14-2014 01:23 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  For most of the 115 years that they have been playing, Army has lead the series until 2005. Navy has won the last 13 games and now has the longest winning streak in the series.

It is sad, because if this trend keeps up it will not really be a rivalry so much as just a game that is a guarantee win for Navy.

I do not know why Army can no longer recruit while Navy still can, but in looking at when the downfall started (2002), the continual wars that we have had in the Middle East since 9-11 may be a factor. In other words, though there are athletes that are willing to serve in our nations military, there may not be so many of them that are willing to risk life or limb doing that service in ground operations. Army service today is a lot more dangerous than Navy, Air Force and even Marines. .

......Note as to why the US Marines are not used much anymore. The concept of a sea born landing is antiquated. Air Born and Air Assault has been the primary means of invasion for the past 40 years. The Marines are too small of a fighting force to be used in any other types of operations, so now they have been primarily been delegated to ship board security. Thus, it is not a dangerous a job as it used to be in comparison to today's Army.

That was a well written thought out post. I'm sure there is a few coaches out there that can sell a few talented athletes on serving their country while playing football. The thing about the Army while yes we are the ones on the front lines we normally keep our officers behind us while the Air Force and Navy send their officers (pilots) behind enemy lines.

Every infantry platoon has a medic, a communications man, platoon Sargent and platoon leader (either 1st or 2nd Lieutenant) that goes out on every mission with the grunts. During wartime, there is both a higher percent of, as well as a higher number of officer that are wounded and killed in the Army than in any other branch.
Note: I was in an Armor Battalion during the First Gulf War and not only did the Platoon Leaders ride in and command an M1 tank, but the Company Commanders (Army Captains for those that are not familiar) had their own tank and even our Colonel (Battalion Leader) went into battle and commanded from his tank.

In WWII we had Generals that landed and died on the shores of Normandy during DDay. When the 82nd AB and the 101st AB Divisions drops behind enemy lines, so do their commanders - even Generals. There is no other branch that puts the life's of both junior and senior offers on the line more than the Army.

Yes, every pilot in the Air Force and Navy that flies into combat is an officer, but so are those Army helicopter pilots. Keep in mind too, there are a lot more choppers and their pilots that are going into combat and those choppers are slower and fly lower making them a lot easier to shoot down.

(12-14-2014 05:04 PM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  In my somewhat uneducated opinion, it seems that Navy and Air Force have much more "traditional" athletic cultures, as in much less strict, than at West Point. Both Navy and Air Force football have gone through major, major scandals involving both academics and off the field behavior. Air Force bottomed out last year while Navy really didn't take much of a hit, though they hang around .500 mostly. It seems that Army is not as committed to "winning" in 1-A football as Air Force and Navy, and that's probably a good thing for both the West Point community and USMA overall.

Things are only going to get more difficult for Navy next year as they move to the AAC.

West Point has very high standards for not only getting into the institution, but in making the grades and staying eligible. Most Div 1 athletes cannot make the cut and because of that, they have a very small pool to choose from.

(12-14-2014 05:05 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  

(12-14-2014 03:00 PM)John52168 Wrote:  

(12-14-2014 01:23 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  For most of the 115 years that they have been playing, Army has lead the series until 2005. Navy has won the last 13 games and now has the longest winning streak in the series.

It is sad, because if this trend keeps up it will not really be a rivalry so much as just a game that is a guarantee win for Navy.

I do not know why Army can no longer recruit while Navy still can, but in looking at when the downfall started (2002), the continual wars that we have had in the Middle East since 9-11 may be a factor. In other words, though there are athletes that are willing to serve in our nations military, there may not be so many of them that are willing to risk life or limb doing that service in ground operations. Army service today is a lot more dangerous than Navy, Air Force and even Marines. .

......Note as to why the US Marines are not used much anymore. The concept of a sea born landing is antiquated. Air Born and Air Assault has been the primary means of invasion for the past 40 years. The Marines are too small of a fighting force to be used in any other types of operations, so now they have been primarily been delegated to ship board security. Thus, it is not a dangerous a job as it used to be in comparison to today's Army.

That was a well written thought out post. I'm sure there is a few coaches out there that can sell a few talented athletes on serving their country while playing football. The thing about the Army while yes we are the ones on the front lines we normally keep our officers behind us while the Air Force and Navy send their officers (pilots) behind enemy lines.

Every infantry platoon has a medic, a communications man, platoon Sargent and platoon leader (either 1st or 2nd Lieutenant) that goes out on every mission with the grunts. During wartime, there is both a higher percent of, as well as a higher number of officer that are wounded and killed in the Army than in any other branch.
Note: I was in an Armor Battalion during the First Gulf War and not only did the Platoon Leaders ride in and command an M1 tank, but the Company Commanders (Army Captains for those that are not familiar) had their own tank and even our Colonel (Battalion Leader) went into battle and commanded from his tank.

In WWII we had Generals that landed and died on the shores of Normandy during DDay. When the 82nd AB and the 101st AB Divisions drops behind enemy lines, so do their commanders - even Generals. There is no other branch that puts the life's of both junior and senior offers on the line more than the Army.

Yes, every pilot in the Air Force and Navy that flies into combat is an officer, but so are those Army helicopter pilots. Keep in mind too, there are a lot more choppers and their pilots that are going into combat and those choppers are slower and fly lower making them a lot easier to shoot down.

I was a medic in the 6th Eng Bn Combat Light which means that we were flown in by chopper or C-130 wherever we went then we would walk everywhere else and the weapon of choice was C-4 since their job was to blow things up. If they screwed up chances were my only job would be to find as many body parts as possible. At that point rank does not matter because at that point someone lost a son, husband or father.

:thumbsup:Fellow medics.
4/37 Armor 1st ID!

(12-14-2014 05:29 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  West Point has very high standards for not only getting into the institution, but in making the grades and staying eligible. Most Div 1 athletes cannot make the cut and because of that, they have a very small pool to choose from.

But are the standards at West Point higher than at the Air Force and Naval academies?

(12-14-2014 08:51 PM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(12-14-2014 05:29 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  West Point has very high standards for not only getting into the institution, but in making the grades and staying eligible. Most Div 1 athletes cannot make the cut and because of that, they have a very small pool to choose from.

But are the standards at West Point higher than at the Air Force and Naval academies?

The Standards are the same for all three Academies. The entrance standards for physical are pretty much the same. The AF Academy used to be stricter due to the high numbers of cadets graduating and going to fly (size in the cockpit a concern) but that has changed over the years with staffing and newer A/C. In the past Army and Navy generally had bigger linemen but no longer, pretty much all the same.

All these players and their classmates have between 18-20 credit hours per semester mandatory....can't do less. Everyone at the Academy (besides their major courses) take math, English, physics, aerodynamics, astrodynamics, mechanical engineering, a computer course, military studies, philosophy, history and more (all CORE COURSES). Pretty amazing that they can play DI ball and do this or any sport.

Pilot, do u hear much about the weight these lineman have to drop before graduation? I read an article about it recently and it sounds gruelling. Does air force do this or just army? I believe the article was about all 3. I remember the days of air force have 225 lb Oline man. Was pretty amazing how Deberry would still compete.

(12-14-2014 10:44 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  Pilot, do u hear much about the weight these lineman have to drop before graduation? I read an article about it recently and it sounds gruelling. Does air force do this or just army? I believe the article was about all 3. I remember the days of air force have 225 lb Oline man. Was pretty amazing how Deberry would still compete.

All three do it. The other hard part is for the incoming freshman. Basic Cadet Trianing goes right up to the beginning of fall camp. They lose a lot of weight during that time.

(12-14-2014 08:42 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  :thumbsup:Fellow medics.
4/37 Armor 1st ID!

(12-14-2014 08:51 PM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(12-14-2014 05:29 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  West Point has very high standards for not only getting into the institution, but in making the grades and staying eligible. Most Div 1 athletes cannot make the cut and because of that, they have a very small pool to choose from.

But are the standards at West Point higher than at the Air Force and Naval academies?

No. All of the Academies have very high standards. I was just showing how hard it is for Army, as well as the Navy and Air Force, to recruit players that will qualify. Army has the additional punch in the gut in that after graduation, their players will have a harder, more dangerous as well as, less glamorous job or duty to preform.

For those that do qualify and are willing to serve, most would opt for Navy or Air Force.