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I have to admit, I was sold by Fleck from day one. His enthusiasm alone was enough to sell me that something different was on the horizon.

That being said, after a 1-11 season, I had my doubts. Then he cobbled together an incredible recruiting class by MAC standards, and a respectable one by the standards of most other conferences. I wasn't ready to invest in a new boat right away, I was still trying to pull the previous one that I rowed into the ground up from the floor of a 1-11 sea.

Then 8-4 happened... a victory against the hillbillies in the middle of nowhere (AKA Mt. Pleasant), along with a batch of other convincing victories. I swear if we had Purdue on our schedule at the end of the season (like we used to) we would have won.

I am buying back in. All chips to the middle....

But.....

I don't blame this guy if he leaves. We get a crap turnout for games and minimal support from the Kalamazoo community. It has been this way since I went to school there in the 90's. We see a little on the surface but in the end, when you draw 12,000 or less to a game that is sad.

I honestly think we could be ranked in the top 20 and still only draw enough to fill the sideline stands and not the endzones.

After listening to Jim Rome today I realize we have something special. Rome tried to get him to waver and show signs that he may jump ship, and there may have been some subtle ones, but all in all, PJ is good for WMU. Whether he is here for 2 years or 20.

You ignorant simpletons who like to bash Fleck for his ability to ignore history and bring about change need to realize something...WMU's football tradition isn't exactly set in stone. It's history as a program isn't worth holding on to if it means we go nowhere in the future.

I like Flecks showmanship and I like his attitude, but most of all I like that he is putting WMU football back on the map. He, along with the great players he and his staff recruited, are busting it to get themselves and the school recognized. I'll take it in whatever form it comes.

Winning would be a nice tradition. That's one we haven't experienced on a consistent basis...ever.

Great post

Fleck and co. have an amazing opportunity this next season. Not to look ahead too much, but I expect a pretty high level of excitement (relatively speaking) heading into 2015, on a level we haven't seen since probably '09. Starting with MSU at Waldo, while a huge challenge, is also a major chance to make a statement in front of a big crowd of students, alums and community. Not sure if it was Herb Brooks who said it first.. "Great moments are born from great opportunity".

Go toe-to-toe with MSU and some people are going to take notice locally. Beat them, and all bets are off. Not saying it's my expectation, but could you imagine?

Quote:I don't blame this guy if he leaves.

If he continues this and has an above .500 record in our Monster Schedule next year (this year's was non-difficult; perfect for rebuild and gaining steam) -- and capitalizes on a Great Team 2016, he'll be gone after that. We can't expect him to stay if/when that happens.

Quote:We get a crap turnout for games and minimal support from the Kalamazoo community.

I think that's what we have to turn around w/ Marketing. After a 1-11 season and a prior Disappointing 4-8 season, you can't expect mid-way thru this season to automagically be great in people showing up and getting into it. That takes a more time than the team itself. Basically, it's Reasonable to assume if he brings our team up -- we'll have crowds like the Darnell days -- or even Better (with his enthusiasm + more marketing).

Quote:WMU's football tradition isn't exactly set in stone. It's history as a program isn't worth holding on to if it means we go nowhere in the future.

I agree. You have to change a team up and everything about it if ya don't want to look at a 7-5 schedule with 2 P5s, landing #3 or (praying) tied for #2 in the MAC West as a "Great Season". That upsets old-school folks, but as Fleck says -- change hurts & people whine & don't like it. If we win our bowl here -- people will Start liking it... and if we do well next year, it will start to sink in some... and if in 2016 (maybe Fleck's last year?) we hit the double-digit win mark? Everyone will Love It.

Pilot- I taste what your cookin' but that one game, be it important, is not the end all be all. If we win it will be wonderful, if we lose...still a work in progress. Our ability to get the game is a coup in and of itself.

(12-09-2014 03:14 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Fleck and co. have an amazing opportunity this next season. Not to look ahead too much, but I expect a pretty high level of excitement (relatively speaking) heading into 2015, on a level we haven't seen since probably '09. Starting with MSU at Waldo, while a huge challenge, is also a major chance to make a statement in front of a big crowd of students, alums and community. Not sure if it was Herb Brooks who said it first.. "Great moments are born from great opportunity".

Go toe-to-toe with MSU and some people are going to take notice locally. Beat them, and all bets are off. Not saying it's my expectation, but could you imagine?

Yeah, not to look too far ahead..........but that MSU game could do wonders for this program. It may be the greatest atmosphere there has ever been in Waldo. Better than VT in 2002 or Marshall in 1999. Winning the game will be a monumental task, but all you can ask for is the opportunity. Fleck had us prepared to play a great game against MSU in 2013 in E.L., and I imagine he will do the same at Waldo next August. Gosh I can't wait for that game.

(12-09-2014 03:19 PM)Windycitybronco Wrote:  Pilot- I taste what your cookin' but that one game, be it important, is not the end all be all. If we win it will be wonderful, if we lose...still a work in progress. Our ability to get the game is a coup in and of itself.

Definitely not. We could lose 58-0 (god help us) and still go on to win the MAC, have a great year. All I'm saying is, the opportunity is there.

(12-09-2014 03:20 PM)ChuckNorris Wrote:  

(12-09-2014 03:14 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Fleck and co. have an amazing opportunity this next season. Not to look ahead too much, but I expect a pretty high level of excitement (relatively speaking) heading into 2015, on a level we haven't seen since probably '09. Starting with MSU at Waldo, while a huge challenge, is also a major chance to make a statement in front of a big crowd of students, alums and community. Not sure if it was Herb Brooks who said it first.. "Great moments are born from great opportunity".

Go toe-to-toe with MSU and some people are going to take notice locally. Beat them, and all bets are off. Not saying it's my expectation, but could you imagine?

Yeah, not to look too far ahead..........but that MSU game could do wonders for this program. It may be the greatest atmosphere there has ever been in Waldo. Better than VT in 2002 or Marshall in 1999. Winning the game will be a monumental task, but all you can ask for is the opportunity. Fleck had us prepared to play a great game against MSU in 2013 in E.L., and I imagine he will do the same at Waldo next August. Gosh I can't wait for that game.

No to get too far ahead but how soon do those MSU tickets go on sale and any thoought as to how high the University will hike those ticket prices..... I gotta believe tickets will be hard to get...that stadium will be bustin at the seams.....Is there a way to expand with some temporary seating? The anticipation is already building Imagine the talk come July?????? This ought to be a good one for the Kalamazoo economy...Resturants and bars will be booming

Quote:Definitely not. We could lose 58-0 (god help us) and still go on to win the MAC, have a great year. All I'm saying is, the opportunity is there.

Gawd, I would hate to lose by that. I don't think we will. Home court -- when we lost by 13 in our 1-11 season @MSU in one of their Best years -- I would be depressed for a while. I would like to see us make it reasonably close and lose by less than 3 TDs. Basically something like the game we had @VT this year, at worst.

They will probably make their biggest pitch ever for fans to buy season tickets.........guarantee your seat at the MSU game. I'm going to buy two season tickets next year just to make sure I get good seats.

Not sure about the temporary seating. Might be hard the way Waldo is configured, but I'm sure they will take full advantage of the hills. I really hope the community, students, and alumni turn out wearing the correct colors. It'd be great to see a minimal amount of green.

(12-09-2014 03:33 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:Definitely not. We could lose 58-0 (god help us) and still go on to win the MAC, have a great year. All I'm saying is, the opportunity is there.

Gawd, I would hate to lose by that. I don't think we will. Home court -- when we lost by 13 in our 1-11 season @MSU in one of their Best years -- I would be depressed for a while. I would like to see us make it reasonably close and lose by less than 3 TDs. Basically something like the game we had @VT this year, at worst.

I was at the VT game, and Hokie fans were not pleased at that game. I'd be satisfied with a performance like that (if we don't win the game outright). The fact that we weathered that sh*t storm in the first quarter spoke a lot about the character of this team and coaching staff.

Do students have a sports pass or do they just show their Bronco ID???? If it's the Bronco ID, then those will all be Western students on the stadium dr. side..

Fans are slow to grab the band wagon...I'm not surprised that attendance was average this year...Weather sure as hell had a lot to do with butts in the seats..In Darnell's second year playing in the MAC Championship game versus Marshall, we averaged over 27,000 a game at Waldo...I expect the same next year...

(12-09-2014 03:07 PM)Windycitybronco Wrote:  I have to admit, I was sold by Fleck from day one. His enthusiasm alone was enough to sell me that something different was on the horizon.

That being said, after a 1-11 season, I had my doubts. Then he cobbled together an incredible recruiting class by MAC standards, and a respectable one by the standards of most other conferences. I wasn't ready to invest in a new boat right away, I was still trying to pull the previous one that I rowed into the ground up from the floor of a 1-11 sea.

Then 8-4 happened... a victory against the hillbillies in the middle of nowhere (AKA Mt. Pleasant), along with a batch of other convincing victories. I swear if we had Purdue on our schedule at the end of the season (like we used to) we would have won.

I am buying back in. All chips to the middle....

But.....

I don't blame this guy if he leaves. We get a crap turnout for games and minimal support from the Kalamazoo community. It has been this way since I went to school there in the 90's. We see a little on the surface but in the end, when you draw 12,000 or less to a game that is sad.

I honestly think we could be ranked in the top 20 and still only draw enough to fill the sideline stands and not the endzones.

After listening to Jim Rome today I realize we have something special. Rome tried to get him to waver and show signs that he may jump ship, and there may have been some subtle ones, but all in all, PJ is good for WMU. Whether he is here for 2 years or 20.

You ignorant simpletons who like to bash Fleck for his ability to ignore history and bring about change need to realize something...WMU's football tradition isn't exactly set in stone. It's history as a program isn't worth holding on to if it means we go nowhere in the future.

I like Flecks showmanship and I like his attitude, but most of all I like that he is putting WMU football back on the map. He, along with the great players he and his staff recruited, are busting it to get themselves and the school recognized. I'll take it in whatever form it comes.

Winning would be a nice tradition. That's one we haven't experienced on a consistent basis...ever.

Ignorant simpletons? Lost me right there.

(12-09-2014 04:12 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  

(12-09-2014 03:07 PM)Windycitybronco Wrote:  I have to admit, I was sold by Fleck from day one. His enthusiasm alone was enough to sell me that something different was on the horizon.

That being said, after a 1-11 season, I had my doubts. Then he cobbled together an incredible recruiting class by MAC standards, and a respectable one by the standards of most other conferences. I wasn't ready to invest in a new boat right away, I was still trying to pull the previous one that I rowed into the ground up from the floor of a 1-11 sea.

Then 8-4 happened... a victory against the hillbillies in the middle of nowhere (AKA Mt. Pleasant), along with a batch of other convincing victories. I swear if we had Purdue on our schedule at the end of the season (like we used to) we would have won.

I am buying back in. All chips to the middle....

But.....

I don't blame this guy if he leaves. We get a crap turnout for games and minimal support from the Kalamazoo community. It has been this way since I went to school there in the 90's. We see a little on the surface but in the end, when you draw 12,000 or less to a game that is sad.

I honestly think we could be ranked in the top 20 and still only draw enough to fill the sideline stands and not the endzones.

After listening to Jim Rome today I realize we have something special. Rome tried to get him to waver and show signs that he may jump ship, and there may have been some subtle ones, but all in all, PJ is good for WMU. Whether he is here for 2 years or 20.

You ignorant simpletons who like to bash Fleck for his ability to ignore history and bring about change need to realize something...WMU's football tradition isn't exactly set in stone. It's history as a program isn't worth holding on to if it means we go nowhere in the future.

I like Flecks showmanship and I like his attitude, but most of all I like that he is putting WMU football back on the map. He, along with the great players he and his staff recruited, are busting it to get themselves and the school recognized. I'll take it in whatever form it comes.

Winning would be a nice tradition. That's one we haven't experienced on a consistent basis...ever.

Ignorant simpletons? Lost me right there.

Agreed.

Why must Wmu fans always bash each other? I was on board after the msu game last year then the 1-11 put me on the other side. I like the direction but talking about a lack of history only benefits you as a coach if you can actually improve on that history. Fleck hasn't done that yet..... Until he does I'll be skeptical but always a Wmu fan.

I guess the simpletons know who they are then? I say this because I never called anybody specific out on this.

I get why history is important to you Ernie, I really do and it should be. But it is your history to embrace, not mine, and certainly not the current regime in charge of the football program.

Respecting history and revering it as sacred are two different things. Coach Fleck has never come out and trampled on WMU history or the players/coaches before it. Heck, he even paid a little tribute to Doolittle not long ago.

That being said, would you really respect him if he did? No. I think your "generation" dislikes Fleck because he is modern and outspoken instead of humble and curmudgeonly.

Some of you (since you acknowledged being one of the simpletons) would rather we went along our merry middling existence as a little known school/program. It's like people who follow a small local band and get angry when they try to "sell out" and hit the big time. "We've been here since the beginning", "we are the devoted fans". BS. Times change... Change with 'em.

I guess you would rather go the way of UAB then grow and change?

(12-09-2014 04:27 PM)Windycitybronco Wrote:  I guess the simpletons know who they are then? I say this because I never called anybody specific out on this.

I get why history is important to you Ernie, I really do and it should be. But it is your history to embrace, not mine, and certainly not the current regime in charge of the football program.

Respecting history and revering it as sacred are two different things. Coach Fleck has never come out and trampled on WMU history or the players/coaches before it. Heck, he even paid a little tribute to Doolittle not long ago.

That being said, would you really respect him if he did? No. I think your "generation" dislikes Fleck because he is modern and outspoken instead of humble and curmudgeonly.

Some of you (since you acknowledged being one of the simpletons) would rather we went along our merry middling existence as a little known school/program. It's like people who follow a small local band and get angry when they try to "sell out" and hit the big time. "We've been here since the beginning", "we are the devoted fans". BS. Times change... Change with 'em.

I guess you would rather go the way of UAB then grow and change?

Actually, I am sort of over feeling personally denigrated over the tradition thing. One reason for that is making allowances for the source, this schtick coming from the sixth grade teacher mentality and all. And I do like the guy and his energy and the trends we are seeing. The thing I fail to see is why the need to trash talk the past in the process. Where is the benefit? He talks to the recruits about all the NFL players coming out of WMU from one side of his mouth and then says the tradition sucks from the other side. He says his ultimate goal,as a coach, is to produce leaders in the community, without recognizing that's exactly what WMU has always done better than most programs. It is a very confused message. Wesley French says one reason he wants to come here is the great tradition. At least he's not a simpleton.

and Ubish....

"I like the direction but talking about a lack of history only benefits you as a coach if you can actually improve on that history."

he has improved on it....

1. A recruiting class like none seen before from a MAC school

*One of those recruits was the first ever to be named MAC Freshman of the YEar and MAC offensive player of the year

*It looks as though it was not a one hit wonder either as our next class should also be along the same rankings.

2. A birth in probably the most prestigious bowl we have ever played in (sort of silly with that as none of them have been prestigious)

3. A victory in Mt. Pleasant.

4. Publicity for WMU on a Nationally syndicated radio show

We are in year two.....he needs to do more, but so far I like it.

Also, remember, the only people in the country that care or know about our distinguished history are the 15-20 people who post on this board. Even former students from those era's cant tell you squat about the history of WMU football. That's the real shame!

I truly think that's his aim, to change that.

At any rate, we are all pulling for the same school. Some wont like the coach, some will. Either way it is exposure and marketing coupled with winning that will matter in the end. If the team wins , WMU wins, as do the alums and students.

Think of Oregon with their flashy uniforms and change of attitude and whatnot over the last decade+. I could see old-school Oregon fans scoffing at Nike changing things up, but do you think they are bitter about that since Oregon has established themselves traditionally as a Power team? Nope.

In the end what is "tradition"? Is he opting out of playing CMU? The MAC? NO. Tradition's going to still be there. It's MAKING a tradition of being a MAC power -- much like NIU has done. Who would hate that? Oh, we add a saying or two to things -- and a different attitude. Really? People are going to feel bent out of shape about that?

It's different vision, different expectations -- and saying No, last decades were not good enough -- to not look at that average of that as "par". It's to Establish a new Tradition of getting to the MACC and winning bowls. Who can't like that?

(12-09-2014 04:07 PM)broncojohnny Wrote:  Fans are slow to grab the band wagon...I'm not surprised that attendance was average this year...Weather sure as hell had a lot to do with butts in the seats..In Darnell's second year playing in the MAC Championship game versus Marshall, we averaged over 27,000 a game at Waldo...I expect the same next year...

Agree with all of this, Johnny. Windy City, you said that you were a student in the '90s? Early '90s, or late '90s? I only ask because WMU drew extremely well in the late '90s. I remember crowds of over 36K for Indiana State and CMU and around 27K for NIU in 2000, when we were close to being ranked.

Attendance at the Ohio homecoming game this year was fantastic! The Murray State game was poor by CommUniversity standards - but that was at least partly due to weather. The Toledo crowd was obviously hampered by weather. The NIU game was hurt by being played the Friday after Thanksgiving, when the students were back home.

Bottom line - the atmosphere at Waldo should get better and better. The MSU game will be a once-in-a-generation experience, and we should draw well for CommUniversity, Homecoming, and CMU.

My biggest concern about attendance going forward is MACtion. We'll probably have at least one midweek game next season. (We may catch a bit of a break - our games with Toledo and NIU could both be MACtion games, and both of those will be on the road.)

See that's the problem Ernie. When he recruits players, he is going up against schools that people have actually heard of. So if he tries to sell tradition to player A from Detroit who is also getting looked at by MSU and ND, and UM what history and tradition is he going to pitch for WMU?

Nobody outside of the WMU family knows anything about WMU football. Hell, people are barely informed of the excellent education one can get at WMU. I think he truly wants to see this change. It is probably for selfish reasons, he wants to make his mark...who doesn't.

He has to come across as real. That is why he connects with a lot of these guys. Real is acknowledging to a 17 year old that he can make history, instead of living in it. He is saying, there isn't any history, so you can help write it!

Acknowledging WMU history wont get you far when recruiting players.