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App State asking for NCAA Waiver
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TheRevSWT Offline
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Post: #101
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 04:00 PM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  Of course I only care about this because my team is being affected by this. I never said that wasn't the case. I'm selfish and I want my Eagles to go to a bowl and I don't care who would get left out because of it. That doesn't mean that what I want can't have a greater good impact. We're not just asking for a one time waiver but a change to a stupid rule. Even if it doesn't help us this year, the rule needs to change. Even if they were to get rid of the rule and we were the team left out of a bowl I would still agree that the rule needed to change.

Then your argument isn't that it's a stupid rule, it's that you don't like the rule because it negatively impacts you.

That's fine. I said before I'd do the same thing, and I have no qualms about the university doing it.

But don't try to act like you are championing to fix some great wrong, when that's not the case.
11-26-2014 04:05 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #102
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 03:57 PM)asupatch Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 02:51 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 02:50 PM)BurlingtonApp Wrote:  Why change something that doesn't affect us? We probably didn't expect to have enough wins this year to be hypothetically eligible.
Plus, we're not necessarily trying to change the rule, just get an exemption. I just don't see the issue here, there is literally no reason not to at least try.

because if it work it would hurt the feelings of a team that might not get to play

If they didn't want their feeling hurt then they should have tried a bit harder to stop up from running Cox right down their throats. They do that and this is a non issue.

Not everyone argues from a position of self-interest. Though it is far easier on one's conscience if they can convince themselves that everyone is behaving just as cynically as they are.
11-26-2014 04:09 PM
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ValleyBoy Offline
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Post: #103
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
Georgia Southern Waiver request denied.

https://twitter.com/DonaldHeathSMN/statu...3883213824


I would expect the same results for App State.
11-26-2014 04:19 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #104
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 04:05 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 04:00 PM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  Of course I only care about this because my team is being affected by this. I never said that wasn't the case. I'm selfish and I want my Eagles to go to a bowl and I don't care who would get left out because of it. That doesn't mean that what I want can't have a greater good impact. We're not just asking for a one time waiver but a change to a stupid rule. Even if it doesn't help us this year, the rule needs to change. Even if they were to get rid of the rule and we were the team left out of a bowl I would still agree that the rule needed to change.

Then your argument isn't that it's a stupid rule, it's that you don't like the rule because it negatively impacts you.

That's fine. I said before I'd do the same thing, and I have no qualms about the university doing it.

But don't try to act like you are championing to fix some great wrong, when that's not the case.

The justification seems to be that we want it, others would be just as selfish, we owe nobody anything, therefore there is no valid argument against it.

But of course this would change if the Cajuns asked for the waiver to be rescinded that allowed transitionals to win the SBC Championship after the fact. It would give the Cajuns a sole championship, they want it, it would help the NO Bowl and allow the sole champion to bowl thus helping the conference...why should anyone cry? Nobody expected GaSo to win and cause the conference a problem when it was granted....so take it back now.
11-26-2014 04:21 PM
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GST-bone09 Offline
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Post: #105
App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 04:05 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 04:00 PM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  Of course I only care about this because my team is being affected by this. I never said that wasn't the case. I'm selfish and I want my Eagles to go to a bowl and I don't care who would get left out because of it. That doesn't mean that what I want can't have a greater good impact. We're not just asking for a one time waiver but a change to a stupid rule. Even if it doesn't help us this year, the rule needs to change. Even if they were to get rid of the rule and we were the team left out of a bowl I would still agree that the rule needed to change.

Then your argument isn't that it's a stupid rule, it's that you don't like the rule because it negatively impacts you.

That's fine. I said before I'd do the same thing, and I have no qualms about the university doing it.

But don't try to act like you are championing to fix some great wrong, when that's not the case.

So just because I'm selfish about it that makes it not a stupid rule? It serves no purpose anymore except for Freshman hazing. The reason it was put in place was because Marshall was allowed to stock up on FBS transfers without them having to sit out the required year. That's no longer the case as we had transfers that were forced to sit out a year which makes it a stupid and unnecessary rule. We meet the minimum FBS requirements for scholarships, Title IX, attendance, played a full FBS schedule and have reached the six-win mark that would make a normal team eligible for a bowl game. The only difference between us and a full member of FBS is the title of "transitional".
11-26-2014 04:33 PM
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BurlingtonApp Offline
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Post: #106
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
Those two situations are completely different and you know it.

1) The Cajuns didn't earn a sole conference championship on the field; we/GS did earn the wins for bowl eligiblity.
2) We're hurting no one by trying to get a waiver; the Cajuns would be.
3) We're looking for an exemption from a dumb rule; the Cajuns would be looking for an exemption from the appropriate ruling.
11-26-2014 04:44 PM
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Post: #107
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 04:44 PM)BurlingtonApp Wrote:  Those two situations are completely different and you know it.

1) The Cajuns didn't earn a sole conference championship on the field; we/GS did earn the wins for bowl eligiblity.
2) We're hurting no one by trying to get a waiver; the Cajuns would be.
3) We're looking for an exemption from a dumb rule; the Cajuns would be looking for an exemption from the appropriate ruling.

They have the best record of post-season eligible teams. But for the agreement of the league, the league bylaws state that a team must be eligible for post-season in order to win the conference. In 1994 the SWC had FIVE co-champs because TAMU was ineligible to be conference champ because they weren't eligible for post-season.

So the trophy GaSo received is only because the membership elected to waive the bylaws in football this year.

Getting a waiver would hurt no one. Being selected would hurt someone. Commissioner had already said he wasn't going advocate placing GaSo in a Sun Belt bowl but someone else out there missing a bowl because of selection of team that wasn't eligible under the rules of the season would hurt that team.

Dumb rule? Welcome to the world of intercollegiate athletics. There are pages upon pages of dumb rules.

This rule is relatively new. It was part of a package of rules that the Southern, Big Sky, Southland, and OVC took to the NCAA to "enhance" FBS football and frankly one that FBS had little heartburn adopting because back when schools were eligible immediately the free transfer rule did not exist when that happened.

Like the rule or not, you were a member of a conference that asked for that particular rope to be fashioned into a noose.
11-26-2014 05:24 PM
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bamaEagle Offline
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Post: #108
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
Pending some miracle we are not going bowling. I guess being conference champs will hold us over though. Have fun in your bowls.
11-26-2014 05:27 PM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #109
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 02:18 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 02:04 PM)rbarthle17 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 10:47 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  There isn't one program worth its salt that wouldn't fight for their student athletes conference be damned.

While I don't think App should get a spot over non transitional SBC programs I'd be upset if we didn't file for the waiver to show those players we support them first.

I'll take it a step further. This is a no lose situation for us. If we don't get the waiver nothing is changed. If we do get it and a bowl decides to invite us over another school, I'm not going to cry tears for that other school at all. if a bowl decides that we are more attractive than another school, that's not our problem.

All we have done is ask a question. Whatever else comes of this is not ours to control.

Cop out and situational ethics.

No different than ULL going to the conference office and asking that the waiver to allow Georgia Southern to win the championship be rescinded after the fact...and them doing it just because the New Orleans Bowl would be more attractive if it had the conference champion in it.

This couldn't be further from the truth.
UL Didn't win the games on the field required to win an outright conference championship. Georgia Southern did.

Georgia Southern also won the games required on the field portion to be considered Bowl eligible. The same as UL did.
11-26-2014 05:29 PM
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Post: #110
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 05:27 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Pending some miracle we are not going bowling. I guess being conference champs will hold us over though. Have fun in your bowls.

Once you go you will see what you were missing with the playoffs. Helluva lot better experience for players and fans.
11-26-2014 05:29 PM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #111
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 11:40 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 11:29 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 11:20 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 11:14 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 09:16 AM)slycat Wrote:  Because if it's black and white then you don't go. You team knew and agreed to the rules. A waiver or anything more is anything but black and white. It's ike when Ohio St went undefeated and missed a national championship because they were on a bowl ban. The NCAA didn't give them a waiver just because they ended up having a good season.

Penn St is a little different because the NCAA decided the punishment they handed down was incorrect due to the media pushing them to make an example of them.

Here is where your logic is screwed up imop. In the first paragraph: Ohio State was serving out a punishment for doing wrong. We have done nothing wrong to be punished for.. SOooooo not the same thing.

In the second: Here is a decision by the NCAA to change - mid-season- because their decision was "incorrect". Well.. imop again, that can be seen as "precedent" as this bowl rule today has lived beyond its useful life span.

If Penn State sets a precedent, then its gotta be the right thing to do.

The NCAA set the precedent, not penn state.

The precedent was set because the Big 10 was struggling and it was thought to be a potential impact on dollars and playoff spots within the P5.

That is a thin, and rotten reed, for anyone to be clinging to.

Oh I agree. It simply shows however, that they are willing to change a "rule" mid season so it isn't as if they don't have the power to do it.

Why for Penn State? $ Is that the answer that they want to go with?
Why a P5 program (that did wrong) and not a G5 that did right?

Can of worms questioning, easy step is to grant the waiver appeal.

But they'll just turn it down and ignore the questions. If we can get ESPN to ask the questions, we might get somewhere. At least for the future and have this rule eliminated.
11-26-2014 05:35 PM
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bamaEagle Offline
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Post: #112
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 05:29 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 05:27 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Pending some miracle we are not going bowling. I guess being conference champs will hold us over though. Have fun in your bowls.

Once you go you will see what you were missing with the playoffs. Helluva lot better experience for players and fans.

Oh I know. I have been to plenty of bowl games. At the end of the day I would still rather have a conference championship flag flying than some trophy from a bowl game with a couple 6 win teams in it. That being said, I would still be happy being in one of those bowls, just more worried about winning the conference first and foremost.
11-26-2014 05:35 PM
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Post: #113
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 05:35 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 05:29 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 05:27 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Pending some miracle we are not going bowling. I guess being conference champs will hold us over though. Have fun in your bowls.

Once you go you will see what you were missing with the playoffs. Helluva lot better experience for players and fans.

Oh I know. I have been to plenty of bowl games. At the end of the day I would still rather have a conference championship flag flying than some trophy from a bowl game with a couple 6 win teams in it. That being said, I would still be happy being in one of those bowls, just more worried about winning the conference first and foremost.

And next year that conference championship trophy comes with a little tag attached. "The bearer of this trophy is guaranteed a bowl spot".
11-26-2014 05:39 PM
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bamaEagle Offline
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Post: #114
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 05:39 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 05:35 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 05:29 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 05:27 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Pending some miracle we are not going bowling. I guess being conference champs will hold us over though. Have fun in your bowls.

Once you go you will see what you were missing with the playoffs. Helluva lot better experience for players and fans.

Oh I know. I have been to plenty of bowl games. At the end of the day I would still rather have a conference championship flag flying than some trophy from a bowl game with a couple 6 win teams in it. That being said, I would still be happy being in one of those bowls, just more worried about winning the conference first and foremost.

And next year that conference championship trophy comes with a little tag attached. "The bearer of this trophy is guaranteed a bowl spot".
Really already excited about the possibility of 6 teams in a dog fight to see who wins the conference next year. Good times ahead for the SBC.
11-26-2014 05:42 PM
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gsu_paintballer Offline
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Post: #115
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
It's nice being on top, again.

The SoCon guys were starting to not hate us enough.
11-26-2014 06:09 PM
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Baldy Offline
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Post: #116
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 12:52 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  App still needs to win another game to get bowl-eligible. The game against non-counter Campbell doesn't count towards bowl eligiblity
I see you trollin'... 03-wink
11-26-2014 06:10 PM
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GSU Eagles Offline
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Post: #117
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 06:09 PM)gsu_paintballer Wrote:  It's nice being on top, again.

The SoCon guys were starting to not hate us enough.

Yep, you know times are good when they are united against you.
11-26-2014 06:35 PM
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TheRevSWT Offline
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Post: #118
RE: App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 04:33 PM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  So just because I'm selfish about it that makes it not a stupid rule? It serves no purpose anymore except for Freshman hazing. The reason it was put in place was because Marshall was allowed to stock up on FBS transfers without them having to sit out the required year. That's no longer the case as we had transfers that were forced to sit out a year which makes it a stupid and unnecessary rule. We meet the minimum FBS requirements for scholarships, Title IX, attendance, played a full FBS schedule and have reached the six-win mark that would make a normal team eligible for a bowl game. The only difference between us and a full member of FBS is the title of "transitional".

No, it doesn't make the rule not stupid. It just means your motive isn't to fix a bad rule, it is purely selfish. The fact that the rule is bad is just a bonus on your side.
11-26-2014 07:36 PM
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GST-bone09 Offline
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Post: #119
App State asking for NCAA Waiver
(11-26-2014 07:36 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 04:33 PM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  So just because I'm selfish about it that makes it not a stupid rule? It serves no purpose anymore except for Freshman hazing. The reason it was put in place was because Marshall was allowed to stock up on FBS transfers without them having to sit out the required year. That's no longer the case as we had transfers that were forced to sit out a year which makes it a stupid and unnecessary rule. We meet the minimum FBS requirements for scholarships, Title IX, attendance, played a full FBS schedule and have reached the six-win mark that would make a normal team eligible for a bowl game. The only difference between us and a full member of FBS is the title of "transitional".

No, it doesn't make the rule not stupid. It just means your motive isn't to fix a bad rule, it is purely selfish. The fact that the rule is bad is just a bonus on your side.

The difference being I would still want this rule to change even if nothing is done this year. Us being a part of it is just what brought it to our attention. And why does my motive matter. If it gets a stupid rule to change then I don't see the problem.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2014 07:47 PM by GST-bone09.)
11-26-2014 07:46 PM
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