The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(11-23-2014 09:58 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Alright, so I guess I am going to be the only one not surprised if a contract extension and/or contract re-negotiation is announced sometime between now and January.

No. I agree with you, except that I don't think fleck will allow wmu to put big buyout penalties in a new contract. If he does then I will be surprised. And please feel free to remind me that I was wrong. But you won't be the first person to have had the opportunity to do so. Lol

(11-23-2014 10:04 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 09:55 AM)brovol Wrote:  Fleck knows he will get solid offers if not now then later. Why would he make himself less marketable, or set himself up to have to make a payout? No need for him to do that. All he has to do is say pay me enough to stay and I will keep building.

Of course he will... but why wouldn't he want to get paid more money in the meantime?

And why would WMU up his salary, and not the buyout? Then we don't get anything in return and it makes no sense for us.

Personally I'd be pissed if we upped his salary, and didn't increase the buyout. That would be very poor negotiating on our part.

I think you guys are missing the boat here (pun intended) on what it takes to protect your investment.

No one here is missing the boat on protecting your investment. As I stated earlier, given his leverage, why would he sign a contract limiting his movement? Western needs him a lot more than he needs Western. That's the way it is with top-flight coaches. And he appears to be one.

The buyout is the only leverage we have in the negotiation process. If Fleck's salary increases, so should the buyout numbers.

(11-23-2014 10:09 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  The buyout is the only leverage we have in the negotiation process. If Fleck's salary increases, so should the buyout numbers.

You're exactly right, that is the only leverage Western has, but it's not much. Philip John has much more leverage. I can easily forgo a 33% pay raise for millions down the road. It's a no-brainer.

Kansas seems most likely to me to extend an offer. Illinois will be mac shy. Kansas might too because of Gill now that I think about it.

We know that PJ is moving in right direction BUT we have seen similar at WMU if his OC gets poached or his DC it becomes harder and harder to replace them. Darnell and Cubit both had this problem here. If he doesn't get the job he is looking for this off season he would be crazy not to sign an extension that raises his assistant pool to try and keep them. They will be the ones that help him get that big time job. A few hundred thousand more in buyout will not stop any P5 team from getting the coach they want.

Would increasing his buyout really limit mobility? I doubt any P5 school if they want him is going to balk because of an 800k buyout. I think it's win/win to give him a raise/extension.

(11-23-2014 10:04 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 09:55 AM)brovol Wrote:  Fleck knows he will get solid offers if not now then later. Why would he make himself less marketable, or set himself up to have to make a payout? No need for him to do that. All he has to do is say pay me enough to stay and I will keep building.

Of course he will... but why wouldn't he want to get paid more money in the meantime?

And why would WMU up his salary, and not the buyout? Then we don't get anything in return and it makes no sense for us.

Personally I'd be pissed if we upped his salary, and didn't increase the buyout. That would be very poor negotiating on our part.

I think you guys are missing the boat here (pun intended) on what it takes to protect your investment.

I like the pun! Nice!

Well we already have fleck on a contract. Only reason would negotiate is to give him a better contract so he won't leave. Thus, fleck is in the premium negotiation position. He will be the demandor this time, and we will be the b1tch.

Kind of like if you have a wife for a few years, and she decides to get on fitness program, gets boob job, and trades in her glasses for laser surgery. Also she starts reading more, and can carry on a witty conversation with anyone. Even if you were the alpha male in your relationship before, she will now own you. When it comes time to decide things like vacations, weekend plans, or where to eat for dinner she will say jump and you will say how high. Wmu is now in the "jumper" role with fleck; but only if fleck decides its best for him to stay.

(11-23-2014 10:11 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Would increasing his buyout really limit mobility? I doubt any P5 school if they want him is going to balk because of an 800k buyout. I think it's win/win to give him a raise/extension.

Exactly. An extra $400-500k is not going to limit his mobility for whichever school wants him badly enough. That's chump change when you're talking about multi-year $2-$2.5 million contracts -- which is what'd I'd expect him to get offered based on Hazell, Clawson, and Doeren contracts.

Remembering once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is a trend:

Realistically if a "P5" school comes calling there is no way we can pay enough to keep Fleck, especially if he's around long enough to accomplish "three times."

Give him an extension-raise maybe with consideration also given to buy-out.

Bumping assistants' pool significantly just as important short-term.

Sabotage the program.
Plan A- do a Nancy Kerrigan on Terrell, Davis, and Franklin, to assure a loss to NIU and in the bowl. No P5 team is salivating over an 8-5 MAC coach.

Blackmail Fleck
Plan B- I'm sure (not that I have any first hand knowledge of this) he has skeletons in his closet.

Turnover ownership
Plan C- The Acer/Stryker/Some car dealer/Parfet Coaches Retention Fund.
If T.Boone Pickens can be the Jerry Jones of OK State, this group can too.

These ideas are fool proof

(11-23-2014 10:16 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 10:04 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 09:55 AM)brovol Wrote:  Fleck knows he will get solid offers if not now then later. Why would he make himself less marketable, or set himself up to have to make a payout? No need for him to do that. All he has to do is say pay me enough to stay and I will keep building.

Of course he will... but why wouldn't he want to get paid more money in the meantime?

And why would WMU up his salary, and not the buyout? Then we don't get anything in return and it makes no sense for us.

Personally I'd be pissed if we upped his salary, and didn't increase the buyout. That would be very poor negotiating on our part.

I think you guys are missing the boat here (pun intended) on what it takes to protect your investment.

I like the pun! Nice!

Well we already have fleck on a contract. Only reason would negotiate is to give him a better contract so he won't leave. Thus, fleck is in the premium negotiation position. He will be the demandor this time, and we will be the b1tch.

Kind of like if you have a wife for a few years, and she decides to get on fitness program, gets boob job, and trades in her glasses for laser surgery. Also she starts reading more, and can carry on a witty conversation with anyone. Even if you were the alpha male in your relationship before, she will now own you. When it comes time to decide things like vacations, weekend plans, or where to eat for dinner she will say jump and you will say how high. Wmu is now in the "jumper" role with fleck; but only if fleck decides its best for him to stay.

That's quite a parable. Experiences? LOL

(11-23-2014 11:59 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 10:16 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 10:04 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 09:55 AM)brovol Wrote:  Fleck knows he will get solid offers if not now then later. Why would he make himself less marketable, or set himself up to have to make a payout? No need for him to do that. All he has to do is say pay me enough to stay and I will keep building.

Of course he will... but why wouldn't he want to get paid more money in the meantime?

And why would WMU up his salary, and not the buyout? Then we don't get anything in return and it makes no sense for us.

Personally I'd be pissed if we upped his salary, and didn't increase the buyout. That would be very poor negotiating on our part.

I think you guys are missing the boat here (pun intended) on what it takes to protect your investment.

I like the pun! Nice!

Well we already have fleck on a contract. Only reason would negotiate is to give him a better contract so he won't leave. Thus, fleck is in the premium negotiation position. He will be the demandor this time, and we will be the b1tch.

Kind of like if you have a wife for a few years, and she decides to get on fitness program, gets boob job, and trades in her glasses for laser surgery. Also she starts reading more, and can carry on a witty conversation with anyone. Even if you were the alpha male in your relationship before, she will now own you. When it comes time to decide things like vacations, weekend plans, or where to eat for dinner she will say jump and you will say how high. Wmu is now in the "jumper" role with fleck; but only if fleck decides its best for him to stay.

That's quite a parable. Experiences? LOL

Not yet. Maybe she will read this, do that, and then own me. Would be nice. Lol

Remember BC, I preside over the family court (among others). I have seen quite a bit.

(11-23-2014 01:01 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 11:59 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 10:16 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 10:04 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 09:55 AM)brovol Wrote:  Fleck knows he will get solid offers if not now then later. Why would he make himself less marketable, or set himself up to have to make a payout? No need for him to do that. All he has to do is say pay me enough to stay and I will keep building.

Of course he will... but why wouldn't he want to get paid more money in the meantime?

And why would WMU up his salary, and not the buyout? Then we don't get anything in return and it makes no sense for us.

Personally I'd be pissed if we upped his salary, and didn't increase the buyout. That would be very poor negotiating on our part.

I think you guys are missing the boat here (pun intended) on what it takes to protect your investment.

I like the pun! Nice!

Well we already have fleck on a contract. Only reason would negotiate is to give him a better contract so he won't leave. Thus, fleck is in the premium negotiation position. He will be the demandor this time, and we will be the b1tch.

Kind of like if you have a wife for a few years, and she decides to get on fitness program, gets boob job, and trades in her glasses for laser surgery. Also she starts reading more, and can carry on a witty conversation with anyone. Even if you were the alpha male in your relationship before, she will now own you. When it comes time to decide things like vacations, weekend plans, or where to eat for dinner she will say jump and you will say how high. Wmu is now in the "jumper" role with fleck; but only if fleck decides its best for him to stay.

That's quite a parable. Experiences? LOL

Not yet. Maybe she will read this, do that, and then own me. Would be nice. Lol

Remember BC, I preside over the family court (among others). I have seen quite a bit.

Todd is rubbing off on his honor.

(11-23-2014 01:41 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 01:01 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 11:59 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 10:16 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 10:04 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Of course he will... but why wouldn't he want to get paid more money in the meantime?

And why would WMU up his salary, and not the buyout? Then we don't get anything in return and it makes no sense for us.

Personally I'd be pissed if we upped his salary, and didn't increase the buyout. That would be very poor negotiating on our part.

I think you guys are missing the boat here (pun intended) on what it takes to protect your investment.

I like the pun! Nice!

Well we already have fleck on a contract. Only reason would negotiate is to give him a better contract so he won't leave. Thus, fleck is in the premium negotiation position. He will be the demandor this time, and we will be the b1tch.

Kind of like if you have a wife for a few years, and she decides to get on fitness program, gets boob job, and trades in her glasses for laser surgery. Also she starts reading more, and can carry on a witty conversation with anyone. Even if you were the alpha male in your relationship before, she will now own you. When it comes time to decide things like vacations, weekend plans, or where to eat for dinner she will say jump and you will say how high. Wmu is now in the "jumper" role with fleck; but only if fleck decides its best for him to stay.

That's quite a parable. Experiences? LOL

Not yet. Maybe she will read this, do that, and then own me. Would be nice. Lol

Remember BC, I preside over the family court (among others). I have seen quite a bit.

Todd is rubbing off on his honor.

With all due respect, I would never rub on Todd; at least not without bathing in disinfectants and antibacterial agents. If his stories are close to accurate, I would want to maintain a ten foot buffer, and get a note from his physicians assistant at the free clinic.

Kidding todd!!! .....we all know those stories arent true. Lol

Quote:Kidding todd!!! .....we all know those stories arent true. Lol

Of course they're not true. I wasn't yet again on Kinky Kurt's couch suckling on 40-something year old women we picked up from the bar! Complete fabrication!

Quote:Todd is rubbing off on his honor.

After that CMU game, it's been rubbed off and beat down like a red-headed stepchild!

Quote:No. I agree with you, except that I don't think fleck will allow wmu to put big buyout penalties in a new contract. If he does then I will be surprised.

I think what would be best is to up his pay to $425 or $450 -- as would be more fitting would be Huge Potential Bonuses. Oh, going to get us to climb How Mountain and become Elite? Awesome. Tack on another $550k if/when we do, and you'll be a millionaire that year. Doing that + upping the buy-out -- I think he'd go with it (of course I have little knowledge of the ins and outs of coach contract negotiations & expectations). We could have a buyout that's SUPER HIGH over the next two years -- but drops like a rock after that.

Beat NIU. Win the Bowl Game. Go 10-3. Would that be enough for him to get offers?

I'd say not quite. Ball St and Toledo have fielded some good teams both now and in the past and their coaches remain. But I'm sure those other schools are looking at the optimism, the recruiting classes, and the excitement he's brought to the program as well.

Keep in mind, between the Feds and the ex, there isn't a lot left even from 550k. He needs 800k plus just to take home paycheck to rival his salary as an NFL position coach.

Quote:Beat NIU. Win the Bowl Game. Go 10-3. Would that be enough for him to get offers?

I think due to his low salary, a lot of "lateral" places (other G5 conferences) would be offering, yes. I think a P5 team would consider picking him up if he did that, like Kansas. But going 1-11 last year does mean something when you have 0 coaching experience beforehand (no, WR coach doesn't count; OC/DC/HC counts) -- it's a Solid GAMBLE to pick him up. A lot of teams lately haven't been showing "the goods" going after 1-2 year MAC coaches.

Lembo wasn't picked up last year @10-3 and had more experienced & Better resume than Fleck.

Next year should hold him off from being picked up. End of 2016 is where I see him being nabbed.

There's almost no doubt in my mind that there are feelers being sent his way, already. That alone should scare us into negotiations.