mairving
Ignant Homer
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I Root For: Memphis
Location: MediocreVille
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Re: RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
(10-31-2014 02:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote: (10-31-2014 02:35 PM)Stammers Wrote: (10-31-2014 02:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote: (10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote: Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.
Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.
From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.
So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.
Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.
Barton was a GREAT D1 player his sophomore year; much better than Wagner.
I'm not too sure about that, and Wagner left after his freshman year as a lottery pick
If you look up ball hog in the dictionary you will see Wagner's picture. He was a volume shooter who got his points but that's about it.
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11-01-2014 09:40 AM |
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Stammers
Legend
Posts: 38,187
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1739
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Montreal, Canada
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
(11-01-2014 09:28 AM)Rob Wrote: Holy cow. I don't think a kid will live up to his recruiting ranking and that makes me the worst person on the planet. I'm actually impressed you read between the lines, though. You're the only one who realized that, when I said that I didn't think he'd live up to the hype on the basketball court, I actually meant that I hate him as a human and only wish terrible things upon him. You're much too clever for my subtlety.
I didn't read between the lines; I quoted you directly. You gave up on a 20 year old kid the day he set foot on campus; your words, not mine.
Quote: I actually meant that I hate him as a human and only wish terrible things upon him.
I know you're upset; but who said this?
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2014 10:03 AM by Stammers.)
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11-01-2014 09:41 AM |
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Stammers
Legend
Posts: 38,187
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1739
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Montreal, Canada
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
(11-01-2014 09:40 AM)mairving Wrote: (10-31-2014 02:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote: (10-31-2014 02:35 PM)Stammers Wrote: (10-31-2014 02:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote: (10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote: Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.
Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.
From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.
So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.
Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.
Barton was a GREAT D1 player his sophomore year; much better than Wagner.
I'm not too sure about that, and Wagner left after his freshman year as a lottery pick
If you look up ball hog in the dictionary you will see Wagner's picture. He was a volume shooter who got his points but that's about it.
Barton
- 452 field goal attempts
- 23.8% of our team's field goal attempts
- Tarik, Hall and Spoon front line
Wagner
- 647 field goal attempts
- 28.4% of our team's field goal attempts
- Kelly Wise, Chris Massie and Earl Barron front line
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2014 09:54 AM by Stammers.)
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11-01-2014 09:53 AM |
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Rob
Unregistered
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
Any reasonable person who quoted me directly would have noticed that I have mentioned several times that I'm rooting for the guy. If that qualifies as giving up on him, then I guess I did. This might be a little nuanced for you but some of us are capable of forming an opinion while rooting for the opposite outcome. You've taken me saying "I think this will happen" and turned it into "I want this to happen." Those are 2 very different things and I made sure to make the distinction, although apparently I wan't clear enough. And no, I don't get angry over unreasonable people on the internet.
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11-01-2014 09:53 AM |
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macgar32
Legend
Posts: 32,671
Joined: Dec 2007
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I Root For: Memphis
Location: Bartlett
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
(11-01-2014 07:52 AM)Stammers Wrote: (10-31-2014 04:59 PM)macgar32 Wrote: (10-31-2014 03:28 PM)Stammers Wrote: (10-31-2014 02:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote: (10-31-2014 02:35 PM)Stammers Wrote: Barton was a GREAT D1 player his sophomore year; much better than Wagner.
I'm not too sure about that, and Wagner left after his freshman year as a lottery pick
Wagner
21.2 ppg
41.0 fg%
31.7 3pt%
72.2 ft%
2.5 reb
3.6 apg
2.9 to
1.2 st
Barton
18.0 ppg
50.9 fg%
34.6 3pt%
74.9 ft%
8.0 reb
2.9 apg
2.1 to
1.4 st
Better across the board IMO.
True...His second year Barton performed better than Wagner as a freshmen but Wagner was a better talent...Wagner just couldn't stay healthy in the league.
Now lets not forget that Wagner was in the league at 19 and Barton was still in High School. But hey why would we compare freshmen to freshmen since we are talking evaluations...Yup seems fair to compare an 18 year old freshmen to a 21 year old Sophomore.
Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better
Wagner would have turned out to be a better pro; but that has nothing to do with the debate about who was a better D1 player. The blanket statement was made that Wagner was better than Barton. Wagner wasn't better than Barton as a sophomore. Barton was a great D1 two guard. Wagner was a talented but flawed D1 point guard. A stats comparison solidifies the argument in favour of Barton.
Quote:Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better
Why would anyone do that?
Yes...Wagner was better than Barton...And looking at his sophomore stats when he was 21 and comparing him to an 18 year old freshmen to prove he was better is akin to comparing Rose to a junior CDR to say CDR was better.
Experience and age means a lot and to discount it in comparisons is not fair to either player.
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11-01-2014 10:00 AM |
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Stammers
Legend
Posts: 38,187
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1739
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Montreal, Canada
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
(11-01-2014 09:53 AM)Rob Wrote: Any reasonable person who quoted me directly would have noticed that I have mentioned several times that I'm rooting for the guy. If that qualifies as giving up on him, then I guess I did. This might be a little nuanced for you but some of us are capable of forming an opinion while rooting for the opposite outcome. You've taken me saying "I think this will happen" and turned it into "I want this to happen." Those are 2 very different things and I made sure to make the distinction, although apparently I wan't clear enough. And no, I don't get angry over unreasonable people on the internet.
Quote: You've taken me saying "I think this will happen" and turned it into "I want this to happen."
Where?
Quote:If that qualifies as giving up on him, then I guess I did
Yes, my point exactly.
Quote:And no, I don't get angry over unreasonable people on the internet.
Quite the rant the last few posts. You sure seem pretty bothered about it to me.
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11-01-2014 10:12 AM |
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Rob
Unregistered
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
Haha, ok. I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong point. I thought my "rants" were pretty calm but once again, you saw right through me. I'M SO PISSED! RAAAAH!!!! I'll bow out now. I look forward to you bringing back this thread when Kuran has a good game and rubbing it in my face because you know I'll be super upset about it. You know, since I gave up on him and all.
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11-01-2014 10:18 AM |
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Stammers
Legend
Posts: 38,187
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1739
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Montreal, Canada
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
(11-01-2014 10:00 AM)macgar32 Wrote: (11-01-2014 07:52 AM)Stammers Wrote: (10-31-2014 04:59 PM)macgar32 Wrote: (10-31-2014 03:28 PM)Stammers Wrote: (10-31-2014 02:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote: I'm not too sure about that, and Wagner left after his freshman year as a lottery pick
Wagner
21.2 ppg
41.0 fg%
31.7 3pt%
72.2 ft%
2.5 reb
3.6 apg
2.9 to
1.2 st
Barton
18.0 ppg
50.9 fg%
34.6 3pt%
74.9 ft%
8.0 reb
2.9 apg
2.1 to
1.4 st
Better across the board IMO.
True...His second year Barton performed better than Wagner as a freshmen but Wagner was a better talent...Wagner just couldn't stay healthy in the league.
Now lets not forget that Wagner was in the league at 19 and Barton was still in High School. But hey why would we compare freshmen to freshmen since we are talking evaluations...Yup seems fair to compare an 18 year old freshmen to a 21 year old Sophomore.
Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better
Wagner would have turned out to be a better pro; but that has nothing to do with the debate about who was a better D1 player. The blanket statement was made that Wagner was better than Barton. Wagner wasn't better than Barton as a sophomore. Barton was a great D1 two guard. Wagner was a talented but flawed D1 point guard. A stats comparison solidifies the argument in favour of Barton.
Quote:Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better
Why would anyone do that?
Yes...Wagner was better than Barton...And looking at his sophomore stats when he was 21 and comparing him to an 18 year old freshmen to prove he was better is akin to comparing Rose to a junior CDR to say CDR was better.
Experience and age means a lot and to discount it in comparisons is not fair to either player.
Age and experience have nothing to do with the conversation. The debate is who was the better Memphis Tiger.
Freshman Barton < Wagner
Sophmore Barton > Wagner (not debatable)
By the end of the NCAA tournament, Rose was just as good as CDR, in my opinion. It does make for a good debate though.
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11-01-2014 10:25 AM |
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Stammers
Legend
Posts: 38,187
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1739
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Montreal, Canada
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
(11-01-2014 10:18 AM)Rob Wrote: Haha, ok. I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong point. I thought my "rants" were pretty calm but once again, you saw right through me. I'M SO PISSED! RAAAAH!!!! I'll bow out now. I look forward to you bringing back this thread when Kuran has a good game and rubbing it in my face because you know I'll be super upset about it. You know, since I gave up on him and all.
Quote:I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong point
All quoting you directly.
Quote:you know I'll be super upset about it.
You keep making things up. Where did I say that?
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11-01-2014 10:29 AM |
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macgar32
Legend
Posts: 32,671
Joined: Dec 2007
Reputation: 758
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Bartlett
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RE: Does This HAVE to be Kuran's year? (LONG POST)
(11-01-2014 10:25 AM)Stammers Wrote: (11-01-2014 10:00 AM)macgar32 Wrote: (11-01-2014 07:52 AM)Stammers Wrote: (10-31-2014 04:59 PM)macgar32 Wrote: (10-31-2014 03:28 PM)Stammers Wrote: Wagner
21.2 ppg
41.0 fg%
31.7 3pt%
72.2 ft%
2.5 reb
3.6 apg
2.9 to
1.2 st
Barton
18.0 ppg
50.9 fg%
34.6 3pt%
74.9 ft%
8.0 reb
2.9 apg
2.1 to
1.4 st
Better across the board IMO.
True...His second year Barton performed better than Wagner as a freshmen but Wagner was a better talent...Wagner just couldn't stay healthy in the league.
Now lets not forget that Wagner was in the league at 19 and Barton was still in High School. But hey why would we compare freshmen to freshmen since we are talking evaluations...Yup seems fair to compare an 18 year old freshmen to a 21 year old Sophomore.
Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better
Wagner would have turned out to be a better pro; but that has nothing to do with the debate about who was a better D1 player. The blanket statement was made that Wagner was better than Barton. Wagner wasn't better than Barton as a sophomore. Barton was a great D1 two guard. Wagner was a talented but flawed D1 point guard. A stats comparison solidifies the argument in favour of Barton.
Quote:Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better
Why would anyone do that?
Yes...Wagner was better than Barton...And looking at his sophomore stats when he was 21 and comparing him to an 18 year old freshmen to prove he was better is akin to comparing Rose to a junior CDR to say CDR was better.
Experience and age means a lot and to discount it in comparisons is not fair to either player.
Age and experience have nothing to do with the conversation. The debate is who was the better Memphis Tiger.
Freshman Barton < Wagner
Sophmore Barton > Wagner (not debatable)
By the end of the NCAA tournament, Rose was just as good as CDR, in my opinion. It does make for a good debate though.
My statement was "Wagner was a better player, much better without question" nothing about Tigers or college or anything...You essentially commented that Barton was better his Sophomore year...No other time in his career, just his sophmore year...Every other time we have statistics Wagner is better but hey...
Now to finish Age and experience has everything to do with MY statement that you commented on.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2014 01:09 PM by macgar32.)
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11-01-2014 01:01 PM |
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