(10-31-2014 06:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:11 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(10-30-2014 07:58 AM)TripleA Wrote:  He's right, as far as I can tell. That topic is being discussed by a lot of those folks right now, but in the end, it Probably is only going to involve football, and basketball will remain as is. But it is being discussed..

What if the P5 holds its own National Championship in basketball? And what if they make it a double elimination tournament? They could reap all the monies and turn the old NCAA Basketball Tourney format into another version of the NIT. Just sayin. In fact they could do this for all sports, producing told separation from all teams not in the P5.

Thats what I addressed in the above post. Most people Ive talked to tend to think that they would want to include the most elite BBall only conferences too. The Big East and A-10 being the two most obvious. This would give an feel of still being fair and inclusive and keep the historic part of the game but also eliminate nearly 100 teams from the payout and also take away the huge amount that the NCAA takes and puts it into their pockets.

yeah, "an air of being inclusive" by omitting 250 schools from the best event in college sports. Your set up would take all the fun out of filling out brackets and rooting for underdogs not to mention excluding the 1990 NCAA champion UNLV, recent Final four participants Wichita st, G. Mason and NCAA tournament darlings like Gonzaga. Dude, the way you look down on the other 30 plus conferences in college basketball is the same exact way the P5 looks down on USF. I bet you just started following college sports or your a USF frosh...you know what you know from reading Wikipedia,not because you've been there.

Lol, billybob you sure a special type of moron. If the P5 decide to split, you actually think they care at all about any of that... and I never said thats how I feel. This is a theoretical post about what they will do. Its the smartest way to make the most money.
This move is not about being inclusive or whats best for the sport. You actually think they care? Texas and AtM no longer playing was about money. WVU no longer playing Pitt was about money. Notre Dame limiting its play vs Michigan was about money. Expansion and especially a split will be money driven. It will piss off a ton of people but in time the popularity of the sport would remain and the income would be insane. Keeping those 250 and spreading that wealth isn't in their best interest, plus it eliminates the NCAA which takes a ton of cash.

and I am 38 and am an analyst, thats why most of my posts are about numbers and maximizing them.

(10-31-2014 07:09 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 06:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:11 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(10-30-2014 07:58 AM)TripleA Wrote:  He's right, as far as I can tell. That topic is being discussed by a lot of those folks right now, but in the end, it Probably is only going to involve football, and basketball will remain as is. But it is being discussed..

What if the P5 holds its own National Championship in basketball? And what if they make it a double elimination tournament? They could reap all the monies and turn the old NCAA Basketball Tourney format into another version of the NIT. Just sayin. In fact they could do this for all sports, producing told separation from all teams not in the P5.

Thats what I addressed in the above post. Most people Ive talked to tend to think that they would want to include the most elite BBall only conferences too. The Big East and A-10 being the two most obvious. This would give an feel of still being fair and inclusive and keep the historic part of the game but also eliminate nearly 100 teams from the payout and also take away the huge amount that the NCAA takes and puts it into their pockets.

yeah, "an air of being inclusive" by omitting 250 schools from the best event in college sports. Your set up would take all the fun out of filling out brackets and rooting for underdogs not to mention excluding the 1990 NCAA champion UNLV, recent Final four participants Wichita st, G. Mason and NCAA tournament darlings like Gonzaga. Dude, the way you look down on the other 30 plus conferences in college basketball is the same exact way the P5 looks down on USF. I bet you just started following college sports or your a USF frosh...you know what you know from reading Wikipedia,not because you've been there.

Lol, billybob you sure a special type of moron. If the P5 decide to split, you actually think they care at all about any of that... and I never said thats how I feel. This is a theoretical post about what they will do. Its the smartest way to make the most money.
This move is not about being inclusive or whats best for the sport. You actually think they care? Texas and AtM no longer playing was about money. WVU no longer playing Pitt was about money. Notre Dame limiting its play vs Michigan was about money. Expansion and especially a split will be money driven. It will piss off a ton of people but in time the popularity of the sport would remain and the income would be insane. Keeping those 250 and spreading that wealth isn't in their best interest, plus it eliminates the NCAA which takes a ton of cash.

and I am 38 and am an analyst, thats why most of my posts are about numbers and maximizing them.

first off, your hypothetical will never happen. But if it did I disagree with you 100% when you say that the tournament would maintain its popularity. Since your a numbers guy, subtract the fans of the 250 plus schools barred entry from the tourney. 1/5 of the the top 50 schools in national attendance would be barred. BYU, and UNLV, and New Mexico are top 25 each year in attendance most of the past 30 years. Lately, Wichita St and San Diego St have been way up there too. Not to mention the TV viewership falling dramatically due to the underdog rating phenoms Gonzaga, Valporaso, Northern Iowa's etc being barred from play. Your hypothetical bans so many schools with big followings from the tournament and to think it won't hurt the popularity of it is nuts

(10-31-2014 07:09 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 06:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:11 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(10-30-2014 07:58 AM)TripleA Wrote:  He's right, as far as I can tell. That topic is being discussed by a lot of those folks right now, but in the end, it Probably is only going to involve football, and basketball will remain as is. But it is being discussed..

What if the P5 holds its own National Championship in basketball? And what if they make it a double elimination tournament? They could reap all the monies and turn the old NCAA Basketball Tourney format into another version of the NIT. Just sayin. In fact they could do this for all sports, producing told separation from all teams not in the P5.

Thats what I addressed in the above post. Most people Ive talked to tend to think that they would want to include the most elite BBall only conferences too. The Big East and A-10 being the two most obvious. This would give an feel of still being fair and inclusive and keep the historic part of the game but also eliminate nearly 100 teams from the payout and also take away the huge amount that the NCAA takes and puts it into their pockets.

yeah, "an air of being inclusive" by omitting 250 schools from the best event in college sports. Your set up would take all the fun out of filling out brackets and rooting for underdogs not to mention excluding the 1990 NCAA champion UNLV, recent Final four participants Wichita st, G. Mason and NCAA tournament darlings like Gonzaga. Dude, the way you look down on the other 30 plus conferences in college basketball is the same exact way the P5 looks down on USF. I bet you just started following college sports or your a USF frosh...you know what you know from reading Wikipedia,not because you've been there.

Lol, billybob you sure a special type of moron. If the P5 decide to split, you actually think they care at all about any of that... and I never said thats how I feel. This is a theoretical post about what they will do. Its the smartest way to make the most money.
This move is not about being inclusive or whats best for the sport. You actually think they care? Texas and AtM no longer playing was about money. WVU no longer playing Pitt was about money. Notre Dame limiting its play vs Michigan was about money. Expansion and especially a split will be money driven. It will piss off a ton of people but in time the popularity of the sport would remain and the income would be insane. Keeping those 250 and spreading that wealth isn't in their best interest, plus it eliminates the NCAA which takes a ton of cash.

and I am 38 and am an analyst, thats why most of my posts are about numbers and maximizing them.

We are the same age. I don't claim to be an expert, and I'm not an analyst, but I've been attending college games my whole life all over the country. My point: Dick Cheany was the secretary of defense and knows a lot about national defense, but he never served.

(10-31-2014 07:29 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 07:09 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 06:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:11 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  What if the P5 holds its own National Championship in basketball? And what if they make it a double elimination tournament? They could reap all the monies and turn the old NCAA Basketball Tourney format into another version of the NIT. Just sayin. In fact they could do this for all sports, producing told separation from all teams not in the P5.

Thats what I addressed in the above post. Most people Ive talked to tend to think that they would want to include the most elite BBall only conferences too. The Big East and A-10 being the two most obvious. This would give an feel of still being fair and inclusive and keep the historic part of the game but also eliminate nearly 100 teams from the payout and also take away the huge amount that the NCAA takes and puts it into their pockets.

yeah, "an air of being inclusive" by omitting 250 schools from the best event in college sports. Your set up would take all the fun out of filling out brackets and rooting for underdogs not to mention excluding the 1990 NCAA champion UNLV, recent Final four participants Wichita st, G. Mason and NCAA tournament darlings like Gonzaga. Dude, the way you look down on the other 30 plus conferences in college basketball is the same exact way the P5 looks down on USF. I bet you just started following college sports or your a USF frosh...you know what you know from reading Wikipedia,not because you've been there.

Lol, billybob you sure a special type of moron. If the P5 decide to split, you actually think they care at all about any of that... and I never said thats how I feel. This is a theoretical post about what they will do. Its the smartest way to make the most money.
This move is not about being inclusive or whats best for the sport. You actually think they care? Texas and AtM no longer playing was about money. WVU no longer playing Pitt was about money. Notre Dame limiting its play vs Michigan was about money. Expansion and especially a split will be money driven. It will piss off a ton of people but in time the popularity of the sport would remain and the income would be insane. Keeping those 250 and spreading that wealth isn't in their best interest, plus it eliminates the NCAA which takes a ton of cash.

and I am 38 and am an analyst, thats why most of my posts are about numbers and maximizing them.

first off, your hypothetical will never happen. But if it did I disagree with you 100% when you say that the tournament would maintain its popularity. Since your a numbers guy, subtract the fans of the 250 plus schools barred entry from the tourney. 1/5 of the the top 50 schools in national attendance would be barred. BYU, and UNLV, and New Mexico are top 25 each year in attendance most of the past 30 years. Lately, Wichita St and San Diego St have been way up there too. Not to mention the TV viewership falling dramatically due to the underdog rating phenoms Gonzaga, Valporaso, Northern Iowa's etc being barred from play. Your hypothetical bans so many schools with big followings from the tournament and to think it won't hurt the popularity of it is nuts

Actually the majority of the fans from those 250 schools arent avid watchers. If you look at the attendance numbers outside of the P5 and other major basketball conferences it is nearly non existant.

I doubt it would affect the popularity that much. I wish I could find the article but the casual fan many times never even attended the school. A good example was me before I graduated from USF (twice). I rooted for Notre Dame because they were close to my home town and succesful. Butler was even closer to me but they werent that good when I was a kid.

Same is true for the majority of these small schools. When we talk about the Cinderella of the tourney we have to remember that cindy never ever has won the tourny. The closes was Butler and they would be included in my hypothetical.

now more to my point, I hope it never happens. Id actually be thrilled if TV has a major breakthrough and the channels all become ala carte and people can opt out of ESPN. It would kill their income and strip alot of money out of these college contracts which in my opinion has killed the sports I love.


and to address your second post... I work as an analyst but I was also a High School player who won back to back Indiana league titles, became a ref and coached in Florida for two years at a private christian school. Ive been around this sport a long time...hell in Indiana you get a basketball when your born. Like I said, this isnt what I want but to maximize profit, its the best move they can make.

(10-31-2014 09:12 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 07:29 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 07:09 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 06:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:11 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Thats what I addressed in the above post. Most people Ive talked to tend to think that they would want to include the most elite BBall only conferences too. The Big East and A-10 being the two most obvious. This would give an feel of still being fair and inclusive and keep the historic part of the game but also eliminate nearly 100 teams from the payout and also take away the huge amount that the NCAA takes and puts it into their pockets.

yeah, "an air of being inclusive" by omitting 250 schools from the best event in college sports. Your set up would take all the fun out of filling out brackets and rooting for underdogs not to mention excluding the 1990 NCAA champion UNLV, recent Final four participants Wichita st, G. Mason and NCAA tournament darlings like Gonzaga. Dude, the way you look down on the other 30 plus conferences in college basketball is the same exact way the P5 looks down on USF. I bet you just started following college sports or your a USF frosh...you know what you know from reading Wikipedia,not because you've been there.

Lol, billybob you sure a special type of moron. If the P5 decide to split, you actually think they care at all about any of that... and I never said thats how I feel. This is a theoretical post about what they will do. Its the smartest way to make the most money.
This move is not about being inclusive or whats best for the sport. You actually think they care? Texas and AtM no longer playing was about money. WVU no longer playing Pitt was about money. Notre Dame limiting its play vs Michigan was about money. Expansion and especially a split will be money driven. It will piss off a ton of people but in time the popularity of the sport would remain and the income would be insane. Keeping those 250 and spreading that wealth isn't in their best interest, plus it eliminates the NCAA which takes a ton of cash.

and I am 38 and am an analyst, thats why most of my posts are about numbers and maximizing them.

first off, your hypothetical will never happen. But if it did I disagree with you 100% when you say that the tournament would maintain its popularity. Since your a numbers guy, subtract the fans of the 250 plus schools barred entry from the tourney. 1/5 of the the top 50 schools in national attendance would be barred. BYU, and UNLV, and New Mexico are top 25 each year in attendance most of the past 30 years. Lately, Wichita St and San Diego St have been way up there too. Not to mention the TV viewership falling dramatically due to the underdog rating phenoms Gonzaga, Valporaso, Northern Iowa's etc being barred from play. Your hypothetical bans so many schools with big followings from the tournament and to think it won't hurt the popularity of it is nuts

Actually the majority of the fans from those 250 schools arent avid watchers. If you look at the attendance numbers outside of the P5 and other major basketball conferences it is nearly non existant.

I doubt it would affect the popularity that much. I wish I could find the article but the casual fan many times never even attended the school. A good example was me before I graduated from USF (twice). I rooted for Notre Dame because they were close to my home town and succesful. Butler was even closer to me but they werent that good when I was a kid.

Same is true for the majority of these small schools. When we talk about the Cinderella of the tourney we have to remember that cindy never ever has won the tourny. The closes was Butler and they would be included in my hypothetical.

now more to my point, I hope it never happens. Id actually be thrilled if TV has a major breakthrough and the channels all become ala carte and people can opt out of ESPN. It would kill their income and strip alot of money out of these college contracts which in my opinion has killed the sports I love.


and to address your second post... I work as an analyst but I was also a High School player who won back to back Indiana league titles, became a ref and coached in Florida for two years at a private christian school. Ive been around this sport a long time...hell in Indiana you get a basketball when your born. Like I said, this isnt what I want but to maximize profit, its the best move they can make.

That wouldn't maximize profits by cutting 2/3 of the schools out of the process to play in the big dance. I sure hope that you don't want this to happen, but wonder why it seems like your proposing just that?

The question was made as to if the P5 would split from the rest... If you run the numbers you will find that the NCAA takes a HUGE paycheck from teh NCAA tourney.

Eliminating a bunch of the non P5 and elite bbal conferences wouldnt hurt viewership that much. Think about how few of the 250 schools ever make it to the tourney. I havent run it, but i gurantee that if i did a spreadsheet on all teams that have made the tourney in the last 20 years, out of hte top 64 I would guess close to 50 are the same year after year.

I am not advocating for this but more so looking at it as if I was consulting on the case. I would recommend they do it. If they were to split and form their own tourney, along with expanding the playoff for football and then also take over almost all the bowls (which they now own the majority of the bigest, you could literaly see a doubling of income. The B10 would be in the $50 million plus range per team per year... and they can get even more by bundling all the school networks together. $60 million or more per year is not unattainable.

It, sadly, is the direction that i see this going. There is nobody protecting tradition. Think about how many 70-100 year old games are no longer played that have been killed by conference realignment. I just tend to think that at this point the cats out of hte bag and were going to see the situation get more contracted then anything else.

(10-31-2014 07:29 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Lol, billybob you sure a special type of moron. If the P5 decide to split, you actually think they care at all about any of that... and I never said thats how I feel. This is a theoretical post about what they will do. Its the smartest way to make the most money.
This move is not about being inclusive or whats best for the sport. You actually think they care? Texas and AtM no longer playing was about money. WVU no longer playing Pitt was about money. Notre Dame limiting its play vs Michigan was about money. Expansion and especially a split will be money driven. It will piss off a ton of people but in time the popularity of the sport would remain and the income would be insane. Keeping those 250 and spreading that wealth isn't in their best interest, plus it eliminates the NCAA which takes a ton of cash.

and I am 38 and am an analyst, thats why most of my posts are about numbers and maximizing them.

first off, your hypothetical will never happen. But if it did I disagree with you 100% when you say that the tournament would maintain its popularity. Since your a numbers guy, subtract the fans of the 250 plus schools barred entry from the tourney. 1/5 of the the top 50 schools in national attendance would be barred. BYU, and UNLV, and New Mexico are top 25 each year in attendance most of the past 30 years. Lately, Wichita St and San Diego St have been way up there too. Not to mention the TV viewership falling dramatically due to the underdog rating phenoms Gonzaga, Valporaso, Northern Iowa's etc being barred from play. Your hypothetical bans so many schools with big followings from the tournament and to think it won't hurt the popularity of it is nuts
[/quote]

All they'd have to do is create a new NIT (or retake it over) and invite the best teams from the other conferences along with the best from the P5. You'd still have room for your Cinderellas and small schools but keep the revenue chiefly among thw elite schools. Problem solved.

(10-31-2014 09:12 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Same is true for the majority of these small schools. When we talk about the Cinderella of the tourney we have to remember that cindy [sic] never ever has won the tourney [sic]. The closes [sic] was Butler and they would be included in my hypothetical.

By the time they made it to the largest stage, I wouldn't say Butler was a Cinderella at all, as a 5 seed that every casual fan knew of. Their FF was only mildly surprising.

Well agree to disagree. You have to remember that there are over 100 schools that cant get 500 people to a basketball game. Ill see if I can see the total list of attendance but I really dont think many people realize just how condensed the fan base is of basketball.

ask yourself this. How many alumni do you know of a small school that are fans of a local school that is much larger and more succesful. There are a TON. When I used to go to Kentucky, everybody was wearing UK and Lville tshirt and yet I found many that went to other colleges. Same thing when I lived in Indiana. Everyon wore IU short even if they went to another school.