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CatMom Online
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Post: #61
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
I don't know how this thread got back to expansion but it drives me nuts so, I'll get it back to the OP.

I seriously don't know how all of you have not seen who the real power in the SBC is. You know it is TXST. Benson came to San Marvelous and we had him hooked. At that game he attended (I got to meet him...I know, jealous) it was all she wrote.
Ole Karl took us to the WAC and when he came to the SBC he just couldn't make the move without us.

"Whither thou goest, I will go and where thou lodgest, I will lodge" only in reverse. Karl just couldn't be in the SBC without TXST. You all know it!

You can haggle and argue all you want...we know where the power lies. 07-coffee3
10-28-2014 10:17 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-28-2014 10:17 PM)CatMom Wrote:  I don't know how this thread got back to expansion but it drives me nuts so, I'll get it back to the OP.

I seriously don't know how all of you have not seen who the real power in the SBC is. You know it is TXST. Benson came to San Marvelous and we had him hooked. At that game he attended (I got to meet him...I know, jealous) it was all she wrote.
Ole Karl took us to the WAC and when he came to the SBC he just couldn't make the move without us.

"Whither thou goest, I will go and where thou lodgest, I will lodge" only in reverse. Karl just couldn't be in the SBC without TXST. You all know it!

You can haggle and argue all you want...we know where the power lies. 07-coffee3

That might have been the case until Idaho joined.
10-28-2014 10:38 PM
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GaStPanthers Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-28-2014 08:12 AM)panama Wrote:  
(10-26-2014 09:11 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  I've been reading this board on and off for a couple of years. It appears there's a hierarchy in the SB with the Louisiana schools and Ark St. make the calls and several other schools fall in line. Has anyone been around the SB long enough to explain how these schools gained power in the Belt? I don't know that this occurs in any other conference. The SEC doesn't have "power schools" that set the agenda or the direction of the conference. Is this unique to the SB? Thanks for the info.

I think you lost me where you deduced sentence #2 based on your activity in sentence #1.

Yep this is a message board, not the Sun Belt's Council of Presidents or Board of Directors or whatever.
10-28-2014 11:39 PM
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airtroop Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-28-2014 10:17 PM)CatMom Wrote:  I don't know how this thread got back to expansion but it drives me nuts so, I'll get it back to the OP.

I seriously don't know how all of you have not seen who the real power in the SBC is. You know it is TXST. Benson came to San Marvelous and we had him hooked. At that game he attended (I got to meet him...I know, jealous) it was all she wrote.
Ole Karl took us to the WAC and when he came to the SBC he just couldn't make the move without us.

I'm not going to argue if for no other reason than the fact that if that is really you in your icon, you're pretty damned HOT 01-ncaabbs
10-29-2014 02:30 AM
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T-Dog Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
Traditionally, non-football members don't vote on football matters. Not a hard and fast rule, but a guideline everyone follows.

There's more western members than eastern who've collectively been around the longest. Of course they're gonna have clout.

The main reason Liberty is a long shot to get in is geography and that they're a private school who has a narrow scope of who they can recruit in the minds of AD's. The latter is up for debate, but Mohajir said it, so that's a line of thinking.

And I'd rather take NMSU full than Kennesaw State.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2014 04:02 AM by T-Dog.)
10-29-2014 04:01 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-28-2014 10:17 PM)CatMom Wrote:  I don't know how this thread got back to expansion but it drives me nuts so, I'll get it back to the OP.

I seriously don't know how all of you have not seen who the real power in the SBC is. You know it is TXST. Benson came to San Marvelous and we had him hooked. At that game he attended (I got to meet him...I know, jealous) it was all she wrote.
Ole Karl took us to the WAC and when he came to the SBC he just couldn't make the move without us.

"Whither thou goest, I will go and where thou lodgest, I will lodge" only in reverse. Karl just couldn't be in the SBC without TXST. You all know it!

You can haggle and argue all you want...we know where the power lies. 07-coffee3

Everybody knows who has the power.

Liberty - Sho nuff

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10-29-2014 08:10 AM
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sarkelcpa Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-29-2014 04:01 AM)T-Dog Wrote:  Traditionally, non-football members don't vote on football matters. Not a hard and fast rule, but a guideline everyone follows.

There's more western members than eastern who've collectively been around the longest. Of course they're gonna have clout.

The main reason Liberty is a long shot to get in is geography and that they're a private school who has a narrow scope of who they can recruit in the minds of AD's. The latter is up for debate, but Mohajir said it, so that's a line of thinking.

And I'd rather take NMSU full than Kennesaw State.

Really?
10-29-2014 08:25 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-28-2014 11:39 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 08:12 AM)panama Wrote:  
(10-26-2014 09:11 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  I've been reading this board on and off for a couple of years. It appears there's a hierarchy in the SB with the Louisiana schools and Ark St. make the calls and several other schools fall in line. Has anyone been around the SB long enough to explain how these schools gained power in the Belt? I don't know that this occurs in any other conference. The SEC doesn't have "power schools" that set the agenda or the direction of the conference. Is this unique to the SB? Thanks for the info.

I think you lost me where you deduced sentence #2 based on your activity in sentence #1.

Yep this is a message board, not the Sun Belt's Council of Presidents or Board of Directors or whatever.

This is not the Sun Belt's Council Board of Directors?? Then WTH have I been posting with these past few years?

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10-29-2014 08:55 AM
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GST-bone09 Offline
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Post: #69
Politics of the SunBelt
(10-28-2014 10:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I live twenty minutes from KSU, I just don't see it happening.

I live two minutes from KSU and I don't see it happening. 10-20 years down the road maybe but they will not be in on this round of alignment. They haven't even played a game of football yet and play in an 8,000 (just a guess) seat stadium. It's nice for a small stadium but they would need significant upgrades for FBS football. They need to make sure they can consistently fill that stadium before they even think about it.
10-29-2014 08:59 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-29-2014 08:59 AM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 10:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I live twenty minutes from KSU, I just don't see it happening.

I live two minutes from KSU and I don't see it happening. 10-20 years down the road maybe but they will not be in on this round of alignment. They haven't even played a game of football yet and play in an 8,000 (just a guess) seat stadium. It's nice for a small stadium but they would need significant upgrades for FBS football. They need to make sure they can consistently fill that stadium before they even think about it.

It did not take Georgia State that long.
10-29-2014 09:24 AM
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dahbeed Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-28-2014 10:04 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 07:12 PM)dahbeed Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 06:29 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 04:05 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 02:56 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  I agree. Could we debate EKU vs Kennesaw State? I would actually prefer UT Arlington Football.

What's your fascination with Kennesaw?

After Missouri State and Arlington, Kennesaw State brings more to the table than any other school.
1. Automatic hyped rivalry with Ga Southern and Ga State
2. Provides more exposure for Sun Belt in general. At least 12 Sun Belt games in Atlanta every year.
3. Plenty of Sun Belt alumni in the area from Troy and South Alabama
4. Outstanding Baseball Program
5. Basketball needs improvement but did win 2004 Div II National Championship
6. Very good track team, multiple A-Sun titles
7. Very very good Women’s Soccer program

nice breakdown. i concur. kennesaw state has tremendous upside!

Not sure if serious...

as serious as flarda jag is. in other words.....as serious as a heart attack.

if they won't go for that bautista school from texas ima pull for kennesaw state!
10-29-2014 10:40 AM
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GST-bone09 Offline
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Post: #72
Politics of the SunBelt
(10-29-2014 09:24 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 08:59 AM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 10:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I live twenty minutes from KSU, I just don't see it happening.

I live two minutes from KSU and I don't see it happening. 10-20 years down the road maybe but they will not be in on this round of alignment. They haven't even played a game of football yet and play in an 8,000 (just a guess) seat stadium. It's nice for a small stadium but they would need significant upgrades for FBS football. They need to make sure they can consistently fill that stadium before they even think about it.

It did not take Georgia State that long.

And many could argue how ready they were to make the jump. The reality is that GASt plays in a 70,000+ seat stadium so they didn't need to make as large of a financial commitment that many other schools would have to. It would be a much larger risk for KSU as they would have to get their stadium to 15,000 minimum. Right now they have no idea if it's worth the risk as they haven't even played a game. If in a few years they are consistently selling out their stadium and they put forth the money for expansion then I wouldn't mind pulling them in. I personally want them to do well as my Mom has a nursing degree from them, my sister is about to graduate with a nursing degree from them, and my brother is getting his Masters in education from them.
10-29-2014 10:58 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-29-2014 10:58 AM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 09:24 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 08:59 AM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 10:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I live twenty minutes from KSU, I just don't see it happening.

I live two minutes from KSU and I don't see it happening. 10-20 years down the road maybe but they will not be in on this round of alignment. They haven't even played a game of football yet and play in an 8,000 (just a guess) seat stadium. It's nice for a small stadium but they would need significant upgrades for FBS football. They need to make sure they can consistently fill that stadium before they even think about it.

It did not take Georgia State that long.

And many could argue how ready they were to make the jump. The reality is that GASt plays in a 70,000+ seat stadium so they didn't need to make as large of a financial commitment that many other schools would have to. It would be a much larger risk for KSU as they would have to get their stadium to 15,000 minimum. Right now they have no idea if it's worth the risk as they haven't even played a game. If in a few years they are consistently selling out their stadium and they put forth the money for expansion then I wouldn't mind pulling them in. I personally want them to do well as my Mom has a nursing degree from them, my sister is about to graduate with a nursing degree from them, and my brother is getting his Masters in education from them.

Okay. Now reverse it. How beneficial would a Sun Belt invite be for Kennesaw State? In terms of:

1. Building Stadium
2. Attendance
3. Recognition
10-29-2014 11:11 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
What is this love you have for Kennesaw State dude? LOL. Anyone who lives in Georgia will tell you as a student body and alumni base Kennesaw State is where GSU was in like 1990 and likely where GS was in 1975. We are still talking about a program that announced football BEFORE Mercer and still hast kicked off. Mercer is in season 2 and has built a stadium and a football operations building. Kennesaw not so much...

To compare them to either GSU or GS is pretty funny and even funnier to talk about them in FBS. They have no cash and are doing it with mirrors and a ssytem of levers and pulleys. LOL
10-29-2014 11:35 AM
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Post: #75
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-29-2014 09:24 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 08:59 AM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 10:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I live twenty minutes from KSU, I just don't see it happening.

I live two minutes from KSU and I don't see it happening. 10-20 years down the road maybe but they will not be in on this round of alignment. They haven't even played a game of football yet and play in an 8,000 (just a guess) seat stadium. It's nice for a small stadium but they would need significant upgrades for FBS football. They need to make sure they can consistently fill that stadium before they even think about it.

It did not take Georgia State that long.

FIU moved up their timetable and got 5-6, 0-12, 1-11, 5-7, 3-9, 7-6, 8-5, 3-9, 1-11, and are 3-5 right now. The years in bold are the the years T.Y. Hilton played for them, you know the guy leading the NFL in receiving yards right.

Moving fast has significant perils.
10-29-2014 11:36 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-29-2014 11:36 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 09:24 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 08:59 AM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 10:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I live twenty minutes from KSU, I just don't see it happening.

I live two minutes from KSU and I don't see it happening. 10-20 years down the road maybe but they will not be in on this round of alignment. They haven't even played a game of football yet and play in an 8,000 (just a guess) seat stadium. It's nice for a small stadium but they would need significant upgrades for FBS football. They need to make sure they can consistently fill that stadium before they even think about it.

It did not take Georgia State that long.

FIU moved up their timetable and got 5-6, 0-12, 1-11, 5-7, 3-9, 7-6, 8-5, 3-9, 1-11, and are 3-5 right now. The years in bold are the the years T.Y. Hilton played for them, you know the guy leading the NFL in receiving yards right.

Moving fast has significant perils.
And the last handful who moved FAST (us included) moved because realignment dictated that "You go now or you wait 10-15 years".
10-29-2014 11:39 AM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-28-2014 02:56 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 12:22 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  If we're looking at the best way to improve all League Sports

Add Missouri State, Eastern Kentucky, New Mexico State all sports

Drop Idaho

I agree. Could we debate EKU vs Kennesaw State? I would actually prefer UT Arlington Football.

No, and Not happening
10-29-2014 12:04 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
I don't understand why people think adding football is so darn easy.

To play FBS you are going to spend about $3 million a year. Not all of it will be charged to football but the costs are there even if placed in a different category.

Between coaches, trainers, additional administrative support, additional academic counselors, video support staff you are going to have to hire 24 to 28 new people. That doesn't count non-full-time people like GA's, tutors, and such.

You need at a minimum a practice field, preferably two and ideally least one with a different surface than your home field. (ie. a field turf practice field if you have grass in the stadium or grass if you have field turf).

You need to buy at least 120 helmets, 240 jerseys, 120 pants, 120 seats of pads (that's for a "boring" one home look one road look uniform) but you also need some place large enough to store all that gear and 120 is hoping you only have a couple failures per year. You also need some way to get that gear from your campus to road games.

The school has to have a facility large enough for 105 players to lift weights and do aerobic conditioning and all the associated equipment.

You need at a minimum 15 computers capable of handling large amounts of high resolution video with the capacity to mark plays, annotate them pull the clips and re-sort the clips based on a variety of data points with large displays as well as several projection sets for team meetings, plus similarly equipped laptops for time on the road. Ideally you are also outfitting another dozen or so with tablets.

You have to add another dozen or so people to your school cell phone and cellular data plans because they are either staffers who travel frequently or they are people who need to be reachable after hours.

You need a significant travel budget. Not just chartering busses or airplanes and renting hotels with meeting rooms and the capacity to feed 70-80 people at least two meals, you also have to have money for coaches to fly around the country looking at prospects and staying in hotels and renting cars and for closer trips, you quickly learn paying mileage and such is a major paperwork hassle and it is easier administratively and cost effective to just provide them with a vehicle and cover the fuel and upkeep because the last thing you want is to waste a recruiting trip when some low paid assistant is driving an old beater car that breaks down on Friday night 100 miles from campus and fifty miles from where that linebacker prospect is playing.

Three million bucks will get you in the game as lower end G5 but you better have an administrative staff that can monitor not just compliance with the NCAA rules but also how the money is spent because if your head coach sends nine guys out on the road and all of them are flying commercial and a couple of the bigger guys have to rent SUV's because 6-3 275 former football players don't fit well in economy rental cars and they skip the free breakfast at the hotel for one that doesn't have crappy reheated scrambled eggs, you can blow your recruiting budget the first weekend of visits.

Hire the wrong charter company or pick the wrong hotels and that $1 million road trip isn't as profitable. I know of a case where a bus company had a bus run out of fuel 200 miles out from where they were going and 100 miles from home base. The owner wouldn't pay for a truck service company deliver fuel and they waited three hours for a truck with fuel to arrive from their own garage. I know of a case where the bus driver pulled into a truck stop refuel and none of the companies credit cards would work because they were either maxed or suspended for non-payment and the coach had to put the fuel on his school issued credit card. I know of a school that played a road game arrived at the airport and their charter plane wasn't there. It had blown a tire while making another run and was grounded for inspection three states over delaying departure by five hours. So you have to get people with real experience to deal with your travel.

It's not just buy some uniforms and footballs and you have a team.
10-29-2014 01:01 PM
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GST-bone09 Offline
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Post: #79
Politics of the SunBelt
(10-29-2014 11:11 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 10:58 AM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 09:24 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(10-29-2014 08:59 AM)GST-bone09 Wrote:  
(10-28-2014 10:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I live twenty minutes from KSU, I just don't see it happening.

I live two minutes from KSU and I don't see it happening. 10-20 years down the road maybe but they will not be in on this round of alignment. They haven't even played a game of football yet and play in an 8,000 (just a guess) seat stadium. It's nice for a small stadium but they would need significant upgrades for FBS football. They need to make sure they can consistently fill that stadium before they even think about it.

It did not take Georgia State that long.

And many could argue how ready they were to make the jump. The reality is that GASt plays in a 70,000+ seat stadium so they didn't need to make as large of a financial commitment that many other schools would have to. It would be a much larger risk for KSU as they would have to get their stadium to 15,000 minimum. Right now they have no idea if it's worth the risk as they haven't even played a game. If in a few years they are consistently selling out their stadium and they put forth the money for expansion then I wouldn't mind pulling them in. I personally want them to do well as my Mom has a nursing degree from them, my sister is about to graduate with a nursing degree from them, and my brother is getting his Masters in education from them.

Okay. Now reverse it. How beneficial would a Sun Belt invite be for Kennesaw State? In terms of:

1. Building Stadium
2. Attendance
3. Recognition

They might surprise some people but the smart way to go is to get the program started and then see what you have. It's too high of a risk to them if things don't work out.
10-29-2014 01:44 PM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Politics of the SunBelt
(10-29-2014 01:01 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don't understand why people think adding football is so darn easy.

To play FBS you are going to spend about $3 million a year. Not all of it will be charged to football but the costs are there even if placed in a different category.

Between coaches, trainers, additional administrative support, additional academic counselors, video support staff you are going to have to hire 24 to 28 new people. That doesn't count non-full-time people like GA's, tutors, and such.

You need at a minimum a practice field, preferably two and ideally least one with a different surface than your home field. (ie. a field turf practice field if you have grass in the stadium or grass if you have field turf).

You need to buy at least 120 helmets, 240 jerseys, 120 pants, 120 seats of pads (that's for a "boring" one home look one road look uniform) but you also need some place large enough to store all that gear and 120 is hoping you only have a couple failures per year. You also need some way to get that gear from your campus to road games.

The school has to have a facility large enough for 105 players to lift weights and do aerobic conditioning and all the associated equipment.

You need at a minimum 15 computers capable of handling large amounts of high resolution video with the capacity to mark plays, annotate them pull the clips and re-sort the clips based on a variety of data points with large displays as well as several projection sets for team meetings, plus similarly equipped laptops for time on the road. Ideally you are also outfitting another dozen or so with tablets.

You have to add another dozen or so people to your school cell phone and cellular data plans because they are either staffers who travel frequently or they are people who need to be reachable after hours.

You need a significant travel budget. Not just chartering busses or airplanes and renting hotels with meeting rooms and the capacity to feed 70-80 people at least two meals, you also have to have money for coaches to fly around the country looking at prospects and staying in hotels and renting cars and for closer trips, you quickly learn paying mileage and such is a major paperwork hassle and it is easier administratively and cost effective to just provide them with a vehicle and cover the fuel and upkeep because the last thing you want is to waste a recruiting trip when some low paid assistant is driving an old beater car that breaks down on Friday night 100 miles from campus and fifty miles from where that linebacker prospect is playing.

Three million bucks will get you in the game as lower end G5 but you better have an administrative staff that can monitor not just compliance with the NCAA rules but also how the money is spent because if your head coach sends nine guys out on the road and all of them are flying commercial and a couple of the bigger guys have to rent SUV's because 6-3 275 former football players don't fit well in economy rental cars and they skip the free breakfast at the hotel for one that doesn't have crappy reheated scrambled eggs, you can blow your recruiting budget the first weekend of visits.

Hire the wrong charter company or pick the wrong hotels and that $1 million road trip isn't as profitable. I know of a case where a bus company had a bus run out of fuel 200 miles out from where they were going and 100 miles from home base. The owner wouldn't pay for a truck service company deliver fuel and they waited three hours for a truck with fuel to arrive from their own garage. I know of a case where the bus driver pulled into a truck stop refuel and none of the companies credit cards would work because they were either maxed or suspended for non-payment and the coach had to put the fuel on his school issued credit card. I know of a school that played a road game arrived at the airport and their charter plane wasn't there. It had blown a tire while making another run and was grounded for inspection three states over delaying departure by five hours. So you have to get people with real experience to deal with your travel.

It's not just buy some uniforms and footballs and you have a team.

That is a very weak argument.

1. KSU already has an athletic department with a compliance officer. They have their own buses and charters already lined up to transport 6 foot 5 basketball and volley ball players.

2. KSU has over 25,000 students which would make it third in the Sun Belt behind Texas State and Georgia State excluding UTA which means:

3. KSU probably graduates about 4,000 every year which means 4,000 new supporters entering the work force.

4. If the average graduation is 3,000 over the last 10 years then that is 30,000 alumni mainly in the Atlanta Metro.

5. 50,000 nearby alumni means economic and some political power which means money for KSU athletics.

6. This means KSU gets more money for scholarships, equipment, facilities, fields and stadiums.

7. Using your $3 million minimum, KSU could get 50 percent from students and 50 percent from business donation.

That works out to an increase of $20 per semester for each student and donations of $750,000 donations from Coca Cola and Delta. Guess who gets the concession deal at the all the ball games? Guess which airline benefits from all those Sun Belt travelers?

There are probably a few more but I think this handles the money situation.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2014 01:57 PM by FloridaJag.)
10-29-2014 01:56 PM
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