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Here's a well written article by David Drew.


The Broncos a Year Later

Yep, really enjoyed today's column.

And it touches on a huge point re: our fanbase - it's going to be flipping gorgeous in Kalamazoo this weekend. Be there, damn it!

(Yes, I know I'll see fellow alums discussing the scUM/MSU game, totally oblivious to what WMU's doing, gah... )

People need to get out to the game and support this team! No excuses!

(10-23-2014 08:58 AM)John52168 Wrote:  Here's a well written article by David Drew.

The Broncos a Year Later

Very interesting column - and I agree generally with most of what David has to say. A few parts of his column really stood out to me. David writes:

While some hard-core fans were able to see what was happening on the fundraising and recruiting fronts, a good majority of WMU football fans saw 11 losses and were ready to throw then 32-year-old coach P.J. Fleck and his program-defining "Row the Boat" mantra into the Kalamazoo River.

I think David has spent a little time here now and then...

Fleck signed the highest-rated recruiting class in conference history in February...they came to Kalamazoo, they saw Fleck's vision and they are beginning to conquer.

Easy, David. Point taken, but let's save the "conquering" talk for when we're playing in (and winning) MACCs...

Asked earlier this week if he thought he might have been getting in over his head last year when the negative criticism over his ideas and philosophies was adding up quicker than his team's losses, Fleck told me no. "People that hated me or hated our program or didn't like our program are the people who kind of like it again," he said.

His quote is partly true - it's not a coincidence that winning has led to a more...subdued Bronco Stampede board this week. The naysayers are still out there, though, and I don't think their opinion of P.J. has changed (or will change) just because of a couple of wins.

There are quiet rumblings that another aesthetic upgrade might be in the works in the form of a new video scoreboard.

Do tell...

What's missing is a dedicated fan base at Waldo Stadium. In two home games, WMU has averaged 16,860 fans...It's an uphill battle for almost all mid-major programs to build a game day fan base, but it will likely continue to be especially hard for Fleck to try and change the mindset of a Kalamazoo community that proudly wears Michigan State green and white and Michigan maize and blue.

We've been very unlucky with the weather for the first two home games. Saturday's forecast sounds great. I'm very interested to see what the crowd is like on Saturday. I'll predict we'll see somewhere between 20-25K. Homecoming and winning both help the cause. The UM-MSU game will probably hurt us a little, but it starts an hour and a half after our game, and obviously UM is down. For all those reasons, I don't think it will affect us as much as it normally would.

I get what P.J. is trying to do - and I like his pitch to Kalamazoo - but expecting 35K every home game is not realistic. I'll be happy if we get to a point where we're drawing 25-30K consistently and leading the MAC in attendance. I think this is a far more realistic goal. We all want to see bigger and better crowds at Waldo, but it could definitely be worse - for example, BG drawing far less than 10K as defending MAC champions for our game last week. I'd be embarrassed and upset if that were us under those same circumstances.

(10-23-2014 03:50 PM)The Colonel Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:58 AM)John52168 Wrote:  Here's a well written article by David Drew.

The Broncos a Year Later

Very interesting column - and I agree generally with most of what David has to say. A few parts of his column really stood out to me. David writes:

While some hard-core fans were able to see what was happening on the fundraising and recruiting fronts, a good majority of WMU football fans saw 11 losses and were ready to throw then 32-year-old coach P.J. Fleck and his program-defining "Row the Boat" mantra into the Kalamazoo River.

I think David has spent a little time here now and then...

Fleck signed the highest-rated recruiting class in conference history in February...they came to Kalamazoo, they saw Fleck's vision and they are beginning to conquer.

Easy, David. Point taken, but let's save the "conquering" talk for when we're playing in (and winning) MACCs...

Asked earlier this week if he thought he might have been getting in over his head last year when the negative criticism over his ideas and philosophies was adding up quicker than his team's losses, Fleck told me no. "People that hated me or hated our program or didn't like our program are the people who kind of like it again," he said.

His quote is partly true - it's not a coincidence that winning has led to a more...subdued Bronco Stampede board this week. The naysayers are still out there, though, and I don't think their opinion of P.J. has changed (or will change) just because of a couple of wins.

There are quiet rumblings that another aesthetic upgrade might be in the works in the form of a new video scoreboard.

Do tell...

What's missing is a dedicated fan base at Waldo Stadium. In two home games, WMU has averaged 16,860 fans...It's an uphill battle for almost all mid-major programs to build a game day fan base, but it will likely continue to be especially hard for Fleck to try and change the mindset of a Kalamazoo community that proudly wears Michigan State green and white and Michigan maize and blue.

We've been very unlucky with the weather for the first two home games. Saturday's forecast sounds great. I'm very interested to see what the crowd is like on Saturday. I'll predict we'll see somewhere between 20-25K. Homecoming and winning both help the cause. The UM-MSU game will probably hurt us a little, but it starts an hour and a half after our game, and obviously UM is down. For all those reasons, I don't think it will affect us as much as it normally would.

I get what P.J. is trying to do - and I like his pitch to Kalamazoo - but expecting 35K every home game is not realistic. I'll be happy if we get to a point where we're drawing 25-30K consistently and leading the MAC in attendance. I think this is a far more realistic goal. We all want to see bigger and better crowds at Waldo, but it could definitely be worse - for example, BG drawing far less than 10K as defending MAC champions for our game last week. I'd be embarrassed and upset if that were us under those same circumstances.

Quote:I think David has spent a little time here now and then...

He has. Has a user account on here...

Quote:Easy, David. Point taken, but let's save the "conquering" talk for when we're playing in (and winning) MACCs...

Yeah, I wouldn't say beginning to conquer... I would say, at this point, we're beginning to WIN. If we swapped places with Toledo right now, being 3-0, I would still say it'd be a little too soon to say 'conquer' before Homecoming of the year ya start winning.

Quote:The naysayers are still out there, though, and I don't think their opinion of P.J. has changed (or will change) just because of a couple of wins.

I think it has. For some, not dramatically -- but for some key folks -- significantly. Heck, DB predicted we'd come back against BSU. DB! Last year at that point he would have LAUGHED at the idea in the most negative way if anyone predicted it at half-time. NOT to say that means naysayers are suddenly FANS -- oh, no. Their opinion has changed and is more like "Okay, I like what I see... ok... I like this... you better deliver, buster (bronco)."

Quote:The UM-MSU game will probably hurt us a little, but it starts an hour and a half after our game, and obviously UM is down. For all those reasons, I don't think it will affect us as much as it normally would.

I agree, but State fans Are going to want to see it. I wish our game was at Noon and UM/MSU was at 3:30... or our game at 2 like it is, and their game at 7PM. THAT would have been ideal as people would have had time to leave and drive home to GR or Lansing, back home -- given an hour and half. HOPEFULLY though, it just hurts our 2nd half attendance most, and doesn't affect our 1st half attendance much.

My friend Kinky Kurt brought up possibility of going to Homecoming this year, but it's off the table since his family members & their friends can't get it together due to the UM/MSU game. I don't think that's a rarity for those who live 45m+ away.

Quote:I'll be happy if we get to a point where we're drawing 25-30K consistently and leading the MAC in attendance.

Ohio gets that. Usually by last home games it drops down, but they get 25k* -- kind of amazing, since they're not a powerhouse (but consistently average-to-above-average).

You're right, we can't expect that. BUT, I think it can get better. I think we need to get a winning season out of the way (this one?) before that happens. If so, next year could start it off -- kicking it off with MSU coming to Kalamazoo. That puppy will be close to 40k (our record so far is 36k).

(*Edited 30k->25k)

(10-23-2014 03:50 PM)The Colonel Wrote:  Fleck signed the highest-rated recruiting class in conference history in February...they came to Kalamazoo, they saw Fleck's vision and they are beginning to conquer.

Easy, David. Point taken, but let's save the "conquering" talk for when we're playing in (and winning) MACCs...

What's wrong with Drew saying this?

Jarvion Franklin isn't beginning to conquer?

Robert Spillane, Nathan Braster, Nick Matich, Wyatt Pfeifer, Chukes, etc. are all getting playing time and making immediate impacts.

I think DD is absolutely right.

(10-23-2014 05:55 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:I think David has spent a little time here now and then...

He has. Has a user account on here...

Quote:Easy, David. Point taken, but let's save the "conquering" talk for when we're playing in (and winning) MACCs...

Yeah, I wouldn't say beginning to conquer... I would say, at this point, we're beginning to WIN. If we swapped places with Toledo right now, being 3-0, I would still say it'd be a little too soon to say 'conquer' before Homecoming of the year ya start winning.

Quote:The naysayers are still out there, though, and I don't think their opinion of P.J. has changed (or will change) just because of a couple of wins.

I think it has. For some, not dramatically -- but for some key folks -- significantly. Heck, DB predicted we'd come back against BSU. DB! Last year at that point he would have LAUGHED at the idea in the most negative way if anyone predicted it at half-time. NOT to say that means naysayers are suddenly FANS -- oh, no. Their opinion has changed and is more like "Okay, I like what I see... ok... I like this... you better deliver, buster (bronco)."

Quote:The UM-MSU game will probably hurt us a little, but it starts an hour and a half after our game, and obviously UM is down. For all those reasons, I don't think it will affect us as much as it normally would.

I agree, but State fans Are going to want to see it. I wish our game was at Noon and UM/MSU was at 3:30... or our game at 2 like it is, and their game at 7PM. THAT would have been ideal as people would have had time to leave and drive home to GR or Lansing, back home -- given an hour and half. HOPEFULLY though, it just hurts our 2nd half attendance most, and doesn't affect our 1st half attendance much.

My friend Kinky Kurt brought up possibility of going to Homecoming this year, but it's off the table since his family members & their friends can't get it together due to the UM/MSU game. I don't think that's a rarity for those who live 45m+ away.

Quote:I'll be happy if we get to a point where we're drawing 25-30K consistently and leading the MAC in attendance.

Ohio gets that. Usually by last home games it drops down, but they get 30k -- kind of amazing, since they're not a powerhouse (but consistently average-to-above-average).

You're right, we can't expect that. BUT, I think it can get better. I think we need to get a winning season out of the way (this one?) before that happens. If so, next year could start it off -- kicking it off with MSU coming to Kalamazoo. That puppy will be close to 40k (our record so far is 36k).

Todd Ohio's stadium has a 24,000 capacity which they have been over but dont think ever close to 30,000. At least we have topped 35 k in past. I have played in front of that many at waldo.

Quote:Todd Ohio's stadium has a 24,000 capacity which they have been over but dont think ever close to 30,000.

Sorry, I meant 25k. Here are attendances (rounding down, mid, up):

2012: 26k, 24k, 20k, 25.5k, 17k, 19k
2013: 24.5k, 25k, 19.5k, 24k, 21.5k, 17k, 13k
2014: 25k, 23k, 24k, 20k

(10-23-2014 07:22 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:Todd Ohio's stadium has a 24,000 capacity which they have been over but dont think ever close to 30,000.

Sorry, I meant 25k. Here are attendances (rounding down, mid, up):

2012: 26k, 24k, 20k, 25.5k, 17k, 19k
2013: 24.5k, 25k, 19.5k, 24k, 21.5k, 17k, 13k
2014: 25k, 23k, 24k, 20k

Before grobe u could buy sections at ohio just like emu. When I played there twice in the 90's it was bad. They have done well as of late. What else are they going to do? Its beautiful but basically west Virginia.

Rumblings of a new video board? Interesting

(10-23-2014 03:50 PM)The Colonel Wrote:  I get what P.J. is trying to do - and I like his pitch to Kalamazoo - but expecting 35K every home game is not realistic. I'll be happy if we get to a point where we're drawing 25-30K consistently and leading the MAC in attendance. I think this is a far more realistic goal. We all want to see bigger and better crowds at Waldo, but it could definitely be worse - for example, BG drawing far less than 10K as defending MAC champions for our game last week. I'd be embarrassed and upset if that were us under those same circumstances.

Why was BGSU's so low? Another sad thing I remember was NIU was undefeated when they played us last season at NIU and the stands were pretty much empty the whole game. Granted, it was on TV and really really cold and they were playing us, but I was shocked. NIU WAS UNDEFEATED at that point.


I also liked David Drew's big shout-out to the die-hards: "The Broncos endured a one-win season last year and while some hard-core fans were able to see what was happening on the fundraising and recruiting fronts. . .. . . . .. ... . ."
Yes we've seen it, and this week's news about next season's class is making us even more giddy, much more giddy then someone who'd say "They've won 5 games in 2 years under PJ. They're going to be bad to average forever."

New video board is nothing new... this has been in the works for about 2 years now.

(10-23-2014 08:34 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Another sad thing I remember was NIU was undefeated when they played us last season at NIU and the stands were pretty much empty the whole game. Granted, it was on TV and really really cold and they were playing us, but I was shocked. NIU WAS UNDEFEATED at that point.

I was at that game... calling it a "blizzard" would be an understatement. It was very, very cold... and I was in a heated area with lot's of hot chocolate.

Actually, come to think of it... pretty sure they had very good attendance that night regardless. I want to say 17,000+

(10-23-2014 08:40 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:34 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Another sad thing I remember was NIU was undefeated when they played us last season at NIU and the stands were pretty much empty the whole game. Granted, it was on TV and really really cold and they were playing us, but I was shocked. NIU WAS UNDEFEATED at that point.

I was at that game... calling it a "blizzard" would be an understatement. It was very, very cold... and I was in a heated area with lot's of hot chocolate.

Actually, come to think of it... pretty sure they had very good attendance that night regardless. I want to say 17,000+

I thought the ones that had shown up all left at half-time. But I'm not going to complain too much. NIU and yes Kent St have been ranked in the MAC just a couple seasons ago.

I heard a Bronco update with Robin Hook last night and there was a sound bite of PJ talking about how he knows that many fans don't but into Row The Boat and think it's ridiculous.

I simply found it refreshing that he even realized that and acknowledged it.

(10-23-2014 05:55 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  Next year could start it off -- kicking it off with MSU coming to Kalamazoo. That puppy will be close to 40k (our record so far is 36k).

Very true - with what should be no worse than a near-record crowd to start the season and CMU coming to Kalamazoo later in the year, next season has the potential to be a great year for attendance at Waldo.

(10-23-2014 06:09 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  What's wrong with Drew saying this? Jarvion Franklin isn't beginning to conquer? Robert Spillane, Nathan Braster, Nick Matich, Wyatt Pfeifer, Chukes, etc. are all getting playing time and making immediate impacts. I think DD is absolutely right.

Nothing wrong with David saying this, and I'm not trying to nitpick over word choice - just a reminder that we haven't done anything that past Bronco regimes didn't accomplish at some point. I love the direction we're heading, but we still have a long way to go to reach the pinnacle.

Having said that, as Belt referenced on a different thread not too long ago: I'm all for us "conquering" someone and capturing our first bowl victory.

(10-23-2014 08:37 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  New video board is nothing new... this has been in the works for about 2 years now.

Discussion of the possibility of it happening is not new here. As far as I know, though - and I could be wrong - David alluding to possible action forthcoming is new...

(10-23-2014 08:34 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Why was BGSU's so low?

Great question - your guess is as good as mine. The weather was ok, but certainly not terrible. Announced attendance was over 15K. Actual attendance couldn't have been half that number.