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Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
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DetroitRocket Online
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Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
10-14-2014 12:13 PM
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RocketJeff Offline
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
Very informative. Thanks for posting. I'm certainly not calling for the DC's head, but i am curious as to why our defense hasn't been as effective as other teams'. I'm for giving the defense time to show improvement.

I've noticed that we don't just play 5-10 yards off a receiver, we also start back-pedaling before the ball is snapped and are more like 10-15 yards off the receiver before he starts his route. Is that the problem? Do we have some tell that our opponents recognize that negates our disguises? Or are we just thin on defense and once we get the proper recruits into the program, we'll be fine?
10-14-2014 01:15 PM
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djsfw57 Offline
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-14-2014 01:15 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Very informative. Thanks for posting. I'm certainly not calling for the DC's head, but i am curious as to why our defense hasn't been as effective as other teams'. I'm for giving the defense time to show improvement.

I've noticed that we don't just play 5-10 yards off a receiver, we also start back-pedaling before the ball is snapped and are more like 10-15 yards off the receiver before he starts his route. Is that the problem? Do we have some tell that our opponents recognize that negates our disguises? Or are we just thin on defense and once we get the proper recruits into the program, we'll be fine?

Sorry, but I think they have had PLENTY of time to fix the problems on defense. This has been a problem for the last few years. Seems to me like no one is doing anything about it. I don't know if it's because they don't know we have a problem, or they just don't have the coaching skills to fix the problem. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we will have any progress until we get a defensive coordinator who knows how to coach defense. Clearly the one we have is clueless.
10-14-2014 04:15 PM
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RocketJeff Offline
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-14-2014 04:15 PM)djsfw57 Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 01:15 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Very informative. Thanks for posting. I'm certainly not calling for the DC's head, but i am curious as to why our defense hasn't been as effective as other teams'. I'm for giving the defense time to show improvement.

I've noticed that we don't just play 5-10 yards off a receiver, we also start back-pedaling before the ball is snapped and are more like 10-15 yards off the receiver before he starts his route. Is that the problem? Do we have some tell that our opponents recognize that negates our disguises? Or are we just thin on defense and once we get the proper recruits into the program, we'll be fine?

Sorry, but I think they have had PLENTY of time to fix the problems on defense. This has been a problem for the last few years. Seems to me like no one is doing anything about it. I don't know if it's because they don't know we have a problem, or they just don't have the coaching skills to fix the problem. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we will have any progress until we get a defensive coordinator who knows how to coach defense. Clearly the one we have is clueless.

Plenty of time? The guy has coached our d for 7 games. I'll admit I was expecting a bit more aggressive defense, but I see the players we have coming in and it appears to me a greater emphasis is being placed on the defense. The worst teams seem to constantly change coaches which is probably at least as much a cause as it is a result.
10-14-2014 05:00 PM
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FrickerRon Offline
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-14-2014 05:00 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 04:15 PM)djsfw57 Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 01:15 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Very informative. Thanks for posting. I'm certainly not calling for the DC's head, but i am curious as to why our defense hasn't been as effective as other teams'. I'm for giving the defense time to show improvement.

I've noticed that we don't just play 5-10 yards off a receiver, we also start back-pedaling before the ball is snapped and are more like 10-15 yards off the receiver before he starts his route. Is that the problem? Do we have some tell that our opponents recognize that negates our disguises? Or are we just thin on defense and once we get the proper recruits into the program, we'll be fine?

Sorry, but I think they have had PLENTY of time to fix the problems on defense. This has been a problem for the last few years. Seems to me like no one is doing anything about it. I don't know if it's because they don't know we have a problem, or they just don't have the coaching skills to fix the problem. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we will have any progress until we get a defensive coordinator who knows how to coach defense. Clearly the one we have is clueless.

Plenty of time? The guy has coached our d for 7 games. I'll admit I was expecting a bit more aggressive defense, but I see the players we have coming in and it appears to me a greater emphasis is being placed on the defense. The worst teams seem to constantly change coaches which is probably at least as much a cause as it is a result.
Change takes time, we are getting more aggressive on defense, if you watch, we are bring more than 3 defensive linemen on every play. We are bringing the linebackers off the corners and a safety. Remember, our defense has been **** for over 5 yrs, so it is going to take more then 7 games for it to get better. We are making progress. Give it time.
10-14-2014 05:18 PM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
I feel like with our lack of depth if we jammed every guy, one move would beat us then every drive would be an 80 yard td over our heads. And if we did make em throw a few incomplete passes we would be so tired from being in everyones grill that we would get beat even more frequently
(This post was last modified: 10-14-2014 05:51 PM by UofToledoFans.)
10-14-2014 05:49 PM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-14-2014 04:15 PM)djsfw57 Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 01:15 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Very informative. Thanks for posting. I'm certainly not calling for the DC's head, but i am curious as to why our defense hasn't been as effective as other teams'. I'm for giving the defense time to show improvement.

I've noticed that we don't just play 5-10 yards off a receiver, we also start back-pedaling before the ball is snapped and are more like 10-15 yards off the receiver before he starts his route. Is that the problem? Do we have some tell that our opponents recognize that negates our disguises? Or are we just thin on defense and once we get the proper recruits into the program, we'll be fine?

Sorry, but I think they have had PLENTY of time to fix the problems on defense. This has been a problem for the last few years. Seems to me like no one is doing anything about it. I don't know if it's because they don't know we have a problem, or they just don't have the coaching skills to fix the problem. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we will have any progress until we get a defensive coordinator who knows how to coach defense. Clearly the one we have is clueless.

"Clueless"? Sounds to me it's time you come in and coach these kids on defense. Total sarcasm!!!!!!!
Toledo has had what, 3 defensive coordinators in 4 years. It takes 3 to 4 seasons for players to "understand" defensive schemes. During the first year the kids learn the defense. During the second year the kids will know the defense, but it takes another season to "understand" it. If we switch coordinators every year, its same thing over and over…..something new to learn.
10-14-2014 05:58 PM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
So if the deep alignment strategy works for LSU and Oklahoma, why hasn't it been working for us?
10-15-2014 08:18 AM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-15-2014 08:18 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  So if the deep alignment strategy works for LSU and Oklahoma, why hasn't it been working for us?


Just a guess. But, it might have something to do with LSU and Oklahoma being able to recruit the best of the best DB's.
10-15-2014 08:28 AM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-15-2014 08:28 AM)toledobrad Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:18 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  So if the deep alignment strategy works for LSU and Oklahoma, why hasn't it been working for us?


Just a guess. But, it might have something to do with LSU and Oklahoma being able to recruit the best of the best DB's.

Are you saying we don't have the talent to run the deep alignment style of defense that LSU and Oklahoma run?
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2014 08:42 AM by Toledo Football 1st.)
10-15-2014 08:41 AM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-15-2014 08:41 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:28 AM)toledobrad Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:18 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  So if the deep alignment strategy works for LSU and Oklahoma, why hasn't it been working for us?


Just a guess. But, it might have something to do with LSU and Oklahoma being able to recruit the best of the best DB's.

Are you saying we don't have the talent to run the deep alignment style of defense that LSU and Oklahoma run?


I see what you did there. Well played.

Obviously, I don't have the answers. But I do believe that they're in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. If they play tight man, bump and run, and consistently get beat for long TD's causing UT to lose games to "inferior" teams……then everyone here will ***** and complain. If they play off the WR or play zone…….well we all know what this boards reaction is to that.
10-15-2014 08:49 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
So basically that means that with our secondary it is a lose-lose scenario.

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10-15-2014 08:53 AM
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MidnightBlueGold Offline
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Re: RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-15-2014 08:28 AM)toledobrad Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:18 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  So if the deep alignment strategy works for LSU and Oklahoma, why hasn't it been working for us?


Just a guess. But, it might have something to do with LSU and Oklahoma being able to recruit the best of the best DB's.

And they also play against the best of the best, in conference.

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10-15-2014 09:00 AM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-15-2014 08:49 AM)toledobrad Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:41 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:28 AM)toledobrad Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:18 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  So if the deep alignment strategy works for LSU and Oklahoma, why hasn't it been working for us?


Just a guess. But, it might have something to do with LSU and Oklahoma being able to recruit the best of the best DB's.

Are you saying we don't have the talent to run the deep alignment style of defense that LSU and Oklahoma run?


I see what you did there. Well played.

Obviously, I don't have the answers. But I do believe that they're in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. If they play tight man, bump and run, and consistently get beat for long TD's causing UT to lose games to "inferior" teams……then everyone here will ***** and complain. If they play off the WR or play zone…….well we all know what this boards reaction is to that.

"LSU relies on having physical ballhawks in the secondary with lightning quick reaction times and speed to close on the ball."

You really do have to wonder why would we be trying to run a style of defense that we don't have the talent to run.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2014 09:06 AM by Toledo Football 1st.)
10-15-2014 09:06 AM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
Yeah it seems strange to mismatch the scheme with the personnel like that

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10-15-2014 09:08 AM
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AquaRocket Offline
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-14-2014 04:15 PM)djsfw57 Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 01:15 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Very informative. Thanks for posting. I'm certainly not calling for the DC's head, but i am curious as to why our defense hasn't been as effective as other teams'. I'm for giving the defense time to show improvement.

I've noticed that we don't just play 5-10 yards off a receiver, we also start back-pedaling before the ball is snapped and are more like 10-15 yards off the receiver before he starts his route. Is that the problem? Do we have some tell that our opponents recognize that negates our disguises? Or are we just thin on defense and once we get the proper recruits into the program, we'll be fine?

Sorry, but I think they have had PLENTY of time to fix the problems on defense. This has been a problem for the last few years. Seems to me like no one is doing anything about it. I don't know if it's because they don't know we have a problem, or they just don't have the coaching skills to fix the problem. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we will have any progress until we get a defensive coordinator who knows how to coach defense. Clearly the one we have is clueless.
AMEN!!!
10-15-2014 01:22 PM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-14-2014 05:00 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 04:15 PM)djsfw57 Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 01:15 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Very informative. Thanks for posting. I'm certainly not calling for the DC's head, but i am curious as to why our defense hasn't been as effective as other teams'. I'm for giving the defense time to show improvement.

I've noticed that we don't just play 5-10 yards off a receiver, we also start back-pedaling before the ball is snapped and are more like 10-15 yards off the receiver before he starts his route. Is that the problem? Do we have some tell that our opponents recognize that negates our disguises? Or are we just thin on defense and once we get the proper recruits into the program, we'll be fine?

Sorry, but I think they have had PLENTY of time to fix the problems on defense. This has been a problem for the last few years. Seems to me like no one is doing anything about it. I don't know if it's because they don't know we have a problem, or they just don't have the coaching skills to fix the problem. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we will have any progress until we get a defensive coordinator who knows how to coach defense. Clearly the one we have is clueless.

Plenty of time? The guy has coached our d for 7 games. I'll admit I was expecting a bit more aggressive defense, but I see the players we have coming in and it appears to me a greater emphasis is being placed on the defense. The worst teams seem to constantly change coaches which is probably at least as much a cause as it is a result.
Right... we stuck with LOU WEST for years and just look how well that worked out for us. Actually... LOU's pass D is looking pretty good right now 01-lauramac2
10-15-2014 01:27 PM
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MotoRocket Offline
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
It's not fair to criticize the db's without knowing the entire scheme we are running. You have 11 guys on defense. How you line them up on each play matters to pass coverage. There are so many different alignments and then how you react to an audible that may have picked up the blitz or some other weakness from the sidelines. I'm sure it all looks a lot easier than it is.
10-15-2014 01:38 PM
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BDV27 Offline
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-15-2014 01:38 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  It's not fair to criticize the db's without knowing the entire scheme we are running. You have 11 guys on defense. How you line them up on each play matters to pass coverage. There are so many different alignments and then how you react to an audible that may have picked up the blitz or some other weakness from the sidelines. I'm sure it all looks a lot easier than it is.

It is the scheme and the way they are coached that is the problem. The players are more than capable. If you teach soft coverage, you play soft coverage. If you don't practice ball skills, you won't turn your head to locate the ball in the game. I spoke about this in an earlier thread. I know a little bit about the secondary. You need to occasionally disguise coverages and not allow the QB to get a pre snap read on what coverage you are in. Always change up your looks. Similar to how an offense uses motion. We alway stay in the coverage shell we line up in. As an example, say it's 3 down and 2, occasionally the corners should play off the the receiver making the QB think they are in cover 3 ( 3 deep coverage). The QB's pre snap read will be that the short slant is open to covert the 1st down. At the snap, you roll the coverage and the corners jump the short routes. The safeties roll deep and protect the deep halves (cover 2). Doing things like this causes turnover, causes the QB to hold the ball a bit longer in the pocket, which will results in more sacks. It all goes together. I really think this team is talented. The most talent we have has in a long time. We just unfortunately are playing to conservative on defense, especially in the secondary and it is costing us big time. If we played a more aggressive scheme in the back end, I truly think things would start to gel for this team. Pass defense has been our problem for too long.
10-15-2014 03:09 PM
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RE: Why Aren't We Covering Those Guys?
(10-15-2014 08:41 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:28 AM)toledobrad Wrote:  
(10-15-2014 08:18 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  So if the deep alignment strategy works for LSU and Oklahoma, why hasn't it been working for us?


Just a guess. But, it might have something to do with LSU and Oklahoma being able to recruit the best of the best DB's.

Are you saying we don't have the talent to run the deep alignment style of defense that LSU and Oklahoma run?

No we don't..... change it up please
10-15-2014 03:49 PM
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