(10-03-2014 05:18 PM)falconplucker Wrote: Oh the sky has fallen, the sky has fallen. No one saw this coming. What will happen to the program?!! BLAH. Anyone could have seen at least a 2 year hiatus from being a championship contender, a couple of years ago. Wen you combined who was graduating with who they had at the time, it was obvious. I have no idea, if having the quality of starters Toledo had a couple of years ago, shied some potential players away, who wanted to start. Did assistant coaches leaving have an affect on recruiting? I imagine. But I think everyone, whether you like it or not, could see a rebuilding period coming. Now if this large group of underclasswomen, falls short, then the program is in trouble. I don't expect miracles this year. I don't expect a MACC this year. I just want to see talented players that will contend/win championships the next three years. Until then, I am not going to panic about a young squad that will likely finish around 500.
Well stated! Through graduation and injuries we lost almost the entire team that brought us so many memories. Those teams were not built over night, neither will another great team. Anyone that has a working knowledge of basketball knows that it takes time for players to develop. Someone mentioned a few players in a posting that made a big contribution their freshmen year. That can happen but that is very rare and usually happens when there is already a solid team filled with experienced upper class men. I think your outlook is very realistic. Most coaches will tell you that it takes three years to build or rebuild a program. Excellent posting....thank you!
(10-03-2014 05:18 PM)falconplucker Wrote: Oh the sky has fallen, the sky has fallen. No one saw this coming. What will happen to the program?!! BLAH. Anyone could have seen at least a 2 year hiatus from being a championship contender, a couple of years ago. Wen you combined who was graduating with who they had at the time, it was obvious. I have no idea, if having the quality of starters Toledo had a couple of years ago, shied some potential players away, who wanted to start. Did assistant coaches leaving have an affect on recruiting? I imagine. But I think everyone, whether you like it or not, could see a rebuilding period coming. Now if this large group of underclasswomen, falls short, then the program is in trouble. I don't expect miracles this year. I don't expect a MACC this year. I just want to see talented players that will contend/win championships the next three years. Until then, I am not going to panic about a young squad that will likely finish around 500.
Well stated! Through graduation and injuries we lost almost the entire team that brought us so many memories. Those teams were not built over night, neither will another great team. Anyone that has a working knowledge of basketball knows that it takes time for players to develop. Someone mentioned a few players in a posting that made a big contribution their freshmen year. That can happen but that is very rare and usually happens when there is already a solid team filled with experienced upper class men. I think your outlook is very realistic. Most coaches will tell you that it takes three years to build or rebuild a program. Excellent posting....thank you!
If you have a quality program you don't have to go into a 3 year funk after every strong class graduates. You're supposed to be bringing in younger players that are ready to step in without missing a beat. Toledo did a poor job of recruiting, so those younger quality players weren't there to take over.
(10-03-2014 05:18 PM)falconplucker Wrote: Oh the sky has fallen, the sky has fallen. No one saw this coming. What will happen to the program?!! BLAH. Anyone could have seen at least a 2 year hiatus from being a championship contender, a couple of years ago. Wen you combined who was graduating with who they had at the time, it was obvious. I have no idea, if having the quality of starters Toledo had a couple of years ago, shied some potential players away, who wanted to start. Did assistant coaches leaving have an affect on recruiting? I imagine. But I think everyone, whether you like it or not, could see a rebuilding period coming. Now if this large group of underclasswomen, falls short, then the program is in trouble. I don't expect miracles this year. I don't expect a MACC this year. I just want to see talented players that will contend/win championships the next three years. Until then, I am not going to panic about a young squad that will likely finish around 500.
Well stated! Through graduation and injuries we lost almost the entire team that brought us so many memories. Those teams were not built over night, neither will another great team. Anyone that has a working knowledge of basketball knows that it takes time for players to develop. Someone mentioned a few players in a posting that made a big contribution their freshmen year. That can happen but that is very rare and usually happens when there is already a solid team filled with experienced upper class men. I think your outlook is very realistic. Most coaches will tell you that it takes three years to build or rebuild a program. Excellent posting....thank you!
If you have a quality program you don't have to go into a 3 year funk after every strong class graduates. You're supposed to be bringing in younger players that are ready to step in without missing a beat. Toledo did a poor job of recruiting, so those younger quality players weren't there to take over.
There you have: these posts summarize the 2 diametrically-opposed arguments on this board...are the Lady Rockets simply re-building, or has the program fallen back to the middle of the pack in the MAC. Two things I can say with certainty: first, I think all of us who have posted either argument want to see the program back on top, consistently; and second, we simply won't know which argument is correct until some more games are played.
(10-03-2014 05:18 PM)falconplucker Wrote: Oh the sky has fallen, the sky has fallen. No one saw this coming. What will happen to the program?!! BLAH. Anyone could have seen at least a 2 year hiatus from being a championship contender, a couple of years ago. Wen you combined who was graduating with who they had at the time, it was obvious. I have no idea, if having the quality of starters Toledo had a couple of years ago, shied some potential players away, who wanted to start. Did assistant coaches leaving have an affect on recruiting? I imagine. But I think everyone, whether you like it or not, could see a rebuilding period coming. Now if this large group of underclasswomen, falls short, then the program is in trouble. I don't expect miracles this year. I don't expect a MACC this year. I just want to see talented players that will contend/win championships the next three years. Until then, I am not going to panic about a young squad that will likely finish around 500.
Well stated! Through graduation and injuries we lost almost the entire team that brought us so many memories. Those teams were not built over night, neither will another great team. Anyone that has a working knowledge of basketball knows that it takes time for players to develop. Someone mentioned a few players in a posting that made a big contribution their freshmen year. That can happen but that is very rare and usually happens when there is already a solid team filled with experienced upper class men. I think your outlook is very realistic. Most coaches will tell you that it takes three years to build or rebuild a program. Excellent posting....thank you!
If you have a quality program you don't have to go into a 3 year funk after every strong class graduates. You're supposed to be bringing in younger players that are ready to step in without missing a beat. Toledo did a poor job of recruiting, so those younger quality players weren't there to take over.
There you have: these posts summarize the 2 diametrically-opposed arguments on this board...are the Lady Rockets simply re-building, or has the program fallen back to the middle of the pack in the MAC. Two things I can say with certainty: first, I think all of us who have posted either argument want to see the program back on top, consistently; and second, we simply won't know which argument is correct until some more games are played.
You are exactly right! There are two opposite points of view. I fall on the side the "glass is half full". In my opinion, just my own, I would have liked to see us have a better record but I don't think last years was not as bad as some seem to think. Was it the kind of year we all became use too and wanted...no! The positive I took from it was, in my opinion, the coaches did a great job of coaching with in a bad situation. We lost a very good class to graduation, in fact half of the team and a great amount of minutes played. Compound that with only one upper classman remaining healthy for the season, that made for a lot of playing time to be filled with in experienced players. I might add that the best freshmen prospect missed some playing time due to an arm injury. Then played the season with a brace on her shooting and primary dibbling arm. To me the season was a bad situation handled the best way possible. That low will make the future brighter. Again the glass is half full. I am curious about one thing. I get a sense that some are not that excited about this years freshmen class. If someone has information about them that we don't know, please share that with all of us.
I think it great that people are so into the women's team that this discussion is taking place. All of us are faithful Lady Rocket fans. Not very many college women's teams have such a loyal fan following. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you are on regarding this, we all have the same thing in common...a desire to see our team succeed and the enjoyment of the best show in town...our Rockets!
I do think that we are rebuilding and that we will not be a middle-of-the-pack team in the long run. I agree with Detroit Rocket, though, in wishing that we didn't have to rebuild. But, then, again, I also agree with hwut1 that we had some bad luck last year and that the players and coaches dealt with the situation as best they could. I am excited about this year's freshman class, but I think that last year I was overly enthusiastic about the entering class and expected too much, so I'm tempering my expectations a little. Plus I've never seen any of them play, so I really have no idea what to expect. I did see Lindsay Dorr in a leg brace the other day, confirming what someone posted a while back that she had (or will have?) knee surgery.
As for the incoming freshmen class, there are 2 who I most thought could make early contributions. One is Boyd--I think we will likely have a "PG by committee" this season, and she may be our full-time PG of the future. The other is/was Dorr, because I think interior play, particularly on defense, was a weakness last season, and you have to think/hope that one of the leading shot-blockers in Minnesota HS history would have seen the floor, but if she's injured to the extant of missing the season, then that's out. I am intrigued by Bravo-Herriot...but we've seen with our imports that there's a difference between a Naama and an Inma, and a Monakana and a De Alfredo, so my expectations are much more controlled there.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2014 01:19 PM by bcunn3128.)
If you don't bring in at least 2 players in each class that have the ability to be 1st or 2nd team ALL-MAC their Senior year thats a poor recruiting class. If it takes a top MAC program Three years to re-tool thats a problem. If you look at the recruiting and teams of Bill Fennelly and Curt Miller you will see consistent recruiting and development. We all want Cullop to succeed, but she is going to have to pickup her recruiting. And that starts at home by keeping local players and then spreading out to Michigan and Indiana. Not Minnesota and Canada notorius poor Basketball communities. No excuse to miss on so many players during evaluation. Thats the first part of recruiting...identifying talent and then building relationships.
We don't have to look any further than the BGSU program for a model of excellence. Over the past 11 years (beginning with the 03-04 season) they have won more than 20 games annually. And in only two of those seasons did they have a conference record worse than 13-3. In those two years they were 11-5. BG has certainly done an excellent job of not having to rebuild. That is the kind of consistency in recruiting and performance which I am sure coach Cullop would like to emulate.
One decision stands out for me which makes one wonder about the recruiting thing. They recruited and signed the guard from Notre Dame Academy a couple of years ago. And she didn't even make it to the beginning of the season. How could the staff not have a very good understanding of the character and potential issues regarding a player who lives and plays in the same community? How could they not know?
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2014 07:55 PM by northrocket43.)
(10-06-2014 04:45 PM)utrocks84 Wrote: If you don't bring in at least 2 players in each class that have the ability to be 1st or 2nd team ALL-MAC their Senior year thats a poor recruiting class. If it takes a top MAC program Three years to re-tool thats a problem. If you look at the recruiting and teams of Bill Fennelly and Curt Miller you will see consistent recruiting and development. We all want Cullop to succeed, but she is going to have to pickup her recruiting. And that starts at home by keeping local players and then spreading out to Michigan and Indiana. Not Minnesota and Canada notorius poor Basketball communities. No excuse to miss on so many players during evaluation. Thats the first part of recruiting...identifying talent and then building relationships.
I always read "Gotta keep the local players here!!!!"
3 problems with that:
1. This area (Ohio and southeastern Michigan) has a great number of Division I schools in it.
2. Most of those schools are at the same level or higher on paper (MAC schools, Oakland, Cleveland State, YSU, X, Dayton).
3. The Toledo inferiority complex of must leave town because Toledo is not that great of a place to live or go to school. (I don't get it. People don't know how good we have it here)
This yr starting out with problems again. One player having surgery, another in a boot and Stef Recker can't practice and will have limited game time. I can't believe the injuries and they always seem to hurt us.
(10-09-2014 09:32 AM)flying dutchman Wrote: This yr starting out with problems again. One player having surgery, another in a boot and Stef Recker can't practice and will have limited game time. I can't believe the injuries and they always seem to hurt us.
(10-09-2014 09:32 AM)flying dutchman Wrote: This yr starting out with problems again. One player having surgery, another in a boot and Stef Recker can't practice and will have limited game time. I can't believe the injuries and they always seem to hurt us.
Who's in the boot?
Bravo-Harriott, according to FredJay in another thread.
(10-06-2014 04:45 PM)utrocks84 Wrote: If you don't bring in at least 2 players in each class that have the ability to be 1st or 2nd team ALL-MAC their Senior year thats a poor recruiting class. If it takes a top MAC program Three years to re-tool thats a problem. If you look at the recruiting and teams of Bill Fennelly and Curt Miller you will see consistent recruiting and development. We all want Cullop to succeed, but she is going to have to pickup her recruiting. And that starts at home by keeping local players and then spreading out to Michigan and Indiana. Not Minnesota and Canada notorius poor Basketball communities. No excuse to miss on so many players during evaluation. Thats the first part of recruiting...identifying talent and then building relationships.
I always read "Gotta keep the local players here!!!!"
3 problems with that:
1. This area (Ohio and southeastern Michigan) has a great number of Division I schools in it.
2. Most of those schools are at the same level or higher on paper (MAC schools, Oakland, Cleveland State, YSU, X, Dayton).
3. The Toledo inferiority complex of must leave town because Toledo is not that great of a place to live or go to school. (I don't get it. People don't know how good we have it here)
