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DetroitRocket Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-15-2014 09:38 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  We've done "OK" at times with shorter corners. Some have been great at the HS level, but have had slight builds and when they get to this level their bodies cannot hold up to the beatin'. Des Morrow was a great example of a taller corner that was effective.

Guys, we have bigger defensive backs on our roster than many pro teams. Height is not the problem.
09-15-2014 09:59 AM
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utrocks84 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
A great pass defense starts with a great pass rush, not your DB's needing to maintain coverage for 4-6 seconds. Joe Haden would get beat with our front seven on pass defense. Take a look at what a team like Missouri or Cinncinati did with a good pass rush. Our lineman are more built for stopping the run, not Long and athletic pass rushers.
09-15-2014 10:20 AM
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Toledo Football 1st Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
I'm not saying height is THE problem, but it is a factor. The height on the roster isn't always accurate and a lot of the guys who have actually played have been small--I'm not talking about just this year. Some could get to the ball quickly, but have been only moderately effective when they get there--and they get injured a lot. I know what I've seen. We have one right now who has been moved to WR. Listed at 5-7 and brought in as a DB. Great speed, but injured more than once. He told me himself that he never had a single injury through HS, so there you go. I know how tall I am and when I stand next to a guy who is listed at my height or taller, and is shorter than I am in real life, I know he is shorter than listed.

Who was one of our best corners in recent years? Des Marrow 6-3. Also played some FS.

And at FS height is a factor, though not the only factor. If Chaz is 6-2 as listed then I would agree height shouldn't be the issue.

I just find it a little hard to believe that we've been through 3 DC's in recent years and they all seem to defer to a prevent style defense. There is a reason for that.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2014 10:51 AM by Toledo Football 1st.)
09-15-2014 10:41 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
Just so some of the people(and the rational thinkers have a better chance) on the board know Kiel went 17-22 300 yds and put up 24 points in one half when UC's first team Offense went against their first team Defense in the Spring Game. I did watch that Spring Game and watched Kiel light it up then. Kiel and UC's Offense was not a shock to me Friday night.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2014 01:43 PM by Boca Rocket.)
09-15-2014 11:02 AM
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falconplucker Online
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Post: #45
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
I think Campbell was the right hire. When Beckman left there were a lot of players angry, a big recruiting class was hanging in the breeze, and there was a big bowl game coming up. They hired Campbell, the team calmed down, they won and exciting bowl game, and they kept most of the recruiting class. Running a program is a learning process, that we hope he is learning from. The days of a MAC school hiring a big up and comer are over. When an OSU can pay two defensive coordinators $750,000 each, the only places those coaches are going are either where they are at or to another power conference school. MAC schools are going to get young guys, assistant coaches from larger schools who are farther down on the pay scale, has beens, or old coaches on the verge of retirement. He is the one that has been in love with the zone defense. I would prefer to never see it again. I don't see how Toledo could lose any worse by switching to man-to-man. It works great against most of the MAC teams that suck, but it's free yards for everyone else. With that said, the Ball St game will very telling.
09-15-2014 11:55 AM
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NewMex RocketFan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-14-2014 08:30 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:  The Mac Season hasn't even started yet we just lost to two teams that would be undefeated against any Mac tam this year tkae a chill pill

Exactly.

The season begins in earnest this Saturday. If the Rockets stumble, including the secondary looking like they don't have a clue, from this point on then there may be reason for concern - unless your position is that the Rockets should be no worse that 2-1 now.
09-15-2014 02:19 PM
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NewMex RocketFan Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-15-2014 10:41 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  I'm not saying height is THE problem, but it is a factor. The height on the roster isn't always accurate and a lot of the guys who have actually played have been small--I'm not talking about just this year. Some could get to the ball quickly, but have been only moderately effective when they get there--and they get injured a lot. I know what I've seen. We have one right now who has been moved to WR. Listed at 5-7 and brought in as a DB. Great speed, but injured more than once. He told me himself that he never had a single injury through HS, so there you go. I know how tall I am and when I stand next to a guy who is listed at my height or taller, and is shorter than I am in real life, I know he is shorter than listed.

Who was one of our best corners in recent years? Des Marrow 6-3. Also played some FS.

And at FS height is a factor, though not the only factor. If Chaz is 6-2 as listed then I would agree height shouldn't be the issue.

I just find it a little hard to believe that we've been through 3 DC's in recent years and they all seem to defer to a prevent style defense. There is a reason for that.

I would like to see line backers in the 6'4" to 6'5" range and DB not much shorter. There are tons of basketball guards this height, or taller, with the athletic skills to cover receivers. Look at the QB position and how it has changed over the past few years where 6"4 on up is the norm or rapidly becoming the norm.
09-15-2014 02:23 PM
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magoo Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-15-2014 12:29 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 10:23 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  When he was first hired, I was sort of excited that we got a new, young, and energizing coach. 3 years later and I'm not very excited anymore. Teams are going to continue to light up our weak and depleted defense. Cincy QB Gunner Kiel threw for 6 TDs in his college debut against us, that's the MOST all time by any college QB making his debut as the starter. He also made it look really damn easy.

Guys, I don't know about you or if you were even at the game, but I was and my hopes for Toledo Rocket football in the future have been greatly diminished. I was ashamed and embarrassed to be wearing midnight blue and gold in the sea of white on Friday. Toledo needs to take some notes from Cincinnati...because they're doing it right, whatever that is. I came away very impressed with the city of Cincinnati, the spirited fans, and the UC campus/ surrounding area. It's such an awesome college town and city in general.

That's why it was so frustrating. Cincy scored in 44 seconds to start the game with little resistance. The resistance didn't pick up until the third quarter. By then, it was too late because the defense had given up 41 points in the first half.

I'm not on board with yelling, "Fire Campbell!" I support him and the team. But I just want them to prove something. For all the hype the coaches give every year, I just want the team to come close to living up to the hype. That's not too much to ask. Wanting the team to compete for the division title is not too much to ask.

With our experience with this coach, what makes you think he can accomplish winning a division title, let alone the championship?
Based on the results so far, I'm uncertain we will win a division game.
09-15-2014 02:47 PM
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magoo Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-15-2014 02:47 PM)magoo Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 12:29 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 10:23 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  When he was first hired, I was sort of excited that we got a new, young, and energizing coach. 3 years later and I'm not very excited anymore. Teams are going to continue to light up our weak and depleted defense. Cincy QB Gunner Kiel threw for 6 TDs in his college debut against us, that's the MOST all time by any college QB making his debut as the starter. He also made it look really damn easy.

Guys, I don't know about you or if you were even at the game, but I was and my hopes for Toledo Rocket football in the future have been greatly diminished. I was ashamed and embarrassed to be wearing midnight blue and gold in the sea of white on Friday. Toledo needs to take some notes from Cincinnati...because they're doing it right, whatever that is. I came away very impressed with the city of Cincinnati, the spirited fans, and the UC campus/ surrounding area. It's such an awesome college town and city in general.

That's why it was so frustrating. Cincy scored in 44 seconds to start the game with little resistance. The resistance didn't pick up until the third quarter. By then, it was too late because the defense had given up 41 points in the first half.

I'm not on board with yelling, "Fire Campbell!" I support him and the team. But I just want them to prove something. For all the hype the coaches give every year, I just want the team to come close to living up to the hype. That's not too much to ask. Wanting the team to compete for the division title is not too much to ask.

With our experience with this coach, what makes you think he can accomplish winning a division title, let alone the championship?
Based on the results so far, I'm uncertain we will win a division game.

sorry, we'll beat Eastern Michigan. ( do they play Div 1?)
09-15-2014 02:59 PM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-15-2014 02:47 PM)magoo Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 12:29 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 10:23 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  When he was first hired, I was sort of excited that we got a new, young, and energizing coach. 3 years later and I'm not very excited anymore. Teams are going to continue to light up our weak and depleted defense. Cincy QB Gunner Kiel threw for 6 TDs in his college debut against us, that's the MOST all time by any college QB making his debut as the starter. He also made it look really damn easy.

Guys, I don't know about you or if you were even at the game, but I was and my hopes for Toledo Rocket football in the future have been greatly diminished. I was ashamed and embarrassed to be wearing midnight blue and gold in the sea of white on Friday. Toledo needs to take some notes from Cincinnati...because they're doing it right, whatever that is. I came away very impressed with the city of Cincinnati, the spirited fans, and the UC campus/ surrounding area. It's such an awesome college town and city in general.

That's why it was so frustrating. Cincy scored in 44 seconds to start the game with little resistance. The resistance didn't pick up until the third quarter. By then, it was too late because the defense had given up 41 points in the first half.

I'm not on board with yelling, "Fire Campbell!" I support him and the team. But I just want them to prove something. For all the hype the coaches give every year, I just want the team to come close to living up to the hype. That's not too much to ask. Wanting the team to compete for the division title is not too much to ask.

With our experience with this coach, what makes you think he can accomplish winning a division title, let alone the championship?
Based on the results so far, I'm uncertain we will win a division game.

Seriously chill the f-out.
09-15-2014 09:13 PM
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inductchuck16 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-15-2014 09:13 PM)utpotts Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 02:47 PM)magoo Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 12:29 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 10:23 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  When he was first hired, I was sort of excited that we got a new, young, and energizing coach. 3 years later and I'm not very excited anymore. Teams are going to continue to light up our weak and depleted defense. Cincy QB Gunner Kiel threw for 6 TDs in his college debut against us, that's the MOST all time by any college QB making his debut as the starter. He also made it look really damn easy.

Guys, I don't know about you or if you were even at the game, but I was and my hopes for Toledo Rocket football in the future have been greatly diminished. I was ashamed and embarrassed to be wearing midnight blue and gold in the sea of white on Friday. Toledo needs to take some notes from Cincinnati...because they're doing it right, whatever that is. I came away very impressed with the city of Cincinnati, the spirited fans, and the UC campus/ surrounding area. It's such an awesome college town and city in general.

That's why it was so frustrating. Cincy scored in 44 seconds to start the game with little resistance. The resistance didn't pick up until the third quarter. By then, it was too late because the defense had given up 41 points in the first half.

I'm not on board with yelling, "Fire Campbell!" I support him and the team. But I just want them to prove something. For all the hype the coaches give every year, I just want the team to come close to living up to the hype. That's not too much to ask. Wanting the team to compete for the division title is not too much to ask.

With our experience with this coach, what makes you think he can accomplish winning a division title, let alone the championship?
Based on the results so far, I'm uncertain we will win a division game.

Seriously chill the f-out.

I mean, I think die hard Rocket fans have all the right to be upset and vent over whatever they need to at this point. I'm sorry, but I want to do more than just win the Mid-American Conference. I dream big. I used to dream we had the potential to become the next Boise State. Every single mid major strives to be the next Boise and receive that prestigious national attention.
But when we go out and spot a 7-41 halftime score on national TV and then end up losing by 20+, this just 1 week removed from getting blown away in our own stadium on national TV, the dream to become the next Boise goes spiraling down the long, dark, lonely staircase.
Maybe we should all just accept mediocracy from now on 03-confused
09-15-2014 10:29 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-15-2014 10:29 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 09:13 PM)utpotts Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 02:47 PM)magoo Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 12:29 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 10:23 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  When he was first hired, I was sort of excited that we got a new, young, and energizing coach. 3 years later and I'm not very excited anymore. Teams are going to continue to light up our weak and depleted defense. Cincy QB Gunner Kiel threw for 6 TDs in his college debut against us, that's the MOST all time by any college QB making his debut as the starter. He also made it look really damn easy.

Guys, I don't know about you or if you were even at the game, but I was and my hopes for Toledo Rocket football in the future have been greatly diminished. I was ashamed and embarrassed to be wearing midnight blue and gold in the sea of white on Friday. Toledo needs to take some notes from Cincinnati...because they're doing it right, whatever that is. I came away very impressed with the city of Cincinnati, the spirited fans, and the UC campus/ surrounding area. It's such an awesome college town and city in general.

That's why it was so frustrating. Cincy scored in 44 seconds to start the game with little resistance. The resistance didn't pick up until the third quarter. By then, it was too late because the defense had given up 41 points in the first half.

I'm not on board with yelling, "Fire Campbell!" I support him and the team. But I just want them to prove something. For all the hype the coaches give every year, I just want the team to come close to living up to the hype. That's not too much to ask. Wanting the team to compete for the division title is not too much to ask.

With our experience with this coach, what makes you think he can accomplish winning a division title, let alone the championship?
Based on the results so far, I'm uncertain we will win a division game.

Seriously chill the f-out.

I mean, I think die hard Rocket fans have all the right to be upset and vent over whatever they need to at this point. I'm sorry, but I want to do more than just win the Mid-American Conference. I dream big. I used to dream we had the potential to become the next Boise State. Every single mid major strives to be the next Boise and receive that prestigious national attention.
But when we go out and spot a 7-41 halftime score on national TV and then end up losing by 20+, this just 1 week removed from getting blown away in our own stadium on national TV, the dream to become the next Boise goes spiraling down the long, dark, lonely staircase.
Maybe we should all just accept mediocracy from now on 03-confused

In days when the University is looking for cuts in an already tight/relaively small Athletic Budget and the Big 5 are looking to exclude the smaller Conferences from post season play-offs and TV revenues-you're dreaming.
Are you seeing any new Big 5 teams added to future Rocket schedules?
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2014 02:49 AM by Boca Rocket.)
09-16-2014 02:48 AM
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magoo Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-16-2014 02:48 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 10:29 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 09:13 PM)utpotts Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 02:47 PM)magoo Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 12:29 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  That's why it was so frustrating. Cincy scored in 44 seconds to start the game with little resistance. The resistance didn't pick up until the third quarter. By then, it was too late because the defense had given up 41 points in the first half.

I'm not on board with yelling, "Fire Campbell!" I support him and the team. But I just want them to prove something. For all the hype the coaches give every year, I just want the team to come close to living up to the hype. That's not too much to ask. Wanting the team to compete for the division title is not too much to ask.

With our experience with this coach, what makes you think he can accomplish winning a division title, let alone the championship?
Based on the results so far, I'm uncertain we will win a division game.

Seriously chill the f-out.

I mean, I think die hard Rocket fans have all the right to be upset and vent over whatever they need to at this point. I'm sorry, but I want to do more than just win the Mid-American Conference. I dream big. I used to dream we had the potential to become the next Boise State. Every single mid major strives to be the next Boise and receive that prestigious national attention.
But when we go out and spot a 7-41 halftime score on national TV and then end up losing by 20+, this just 1 week removed from getting blown away in our own stadium on national TV, the dream to become the next Boise goes spiraling down the long, dark, lonely staircase.
Maybe we should all just accept mediocracy from now on 03-confused

In days when the University is looking for cuts in an already tight/relaively small Athletic Budget and the Big 5 are looking to exclude the smaller Conferences from post season play-offs and TV revenues-you're dreaming.
Are you seeing any new Big 5 teams added to future Rocket schedules?

Maybe we should use some of the business school to do case studies on how programs at Cinci, Boise St., and Louisville have developed over the past 20 years, compared to UT's mediocrity. They've obviously done things better than we have. Top level athletics expand and enhance the brand of the university, and increase the level of respect for all departments within the University.
If mediocrity is our standard, keep Campbell who in my opinion will get outcoached again by Lembo on Saturday.

PS remember the First F-ing amendment!
09-16-2014 01:31 PM
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MidnightBlueGold Offline
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Post: #54
Re: RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-16-2014 01:31 PM)magoo Wrote:  PS remember the First F-ing amendment!

Really? You don't understand the first amendment? The first amendment means the government can't censor you. People on a message board, or an employer, or a private business, etc. can tell you to shut up. The government can't.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2014 02:09 PM by MidnightBlueGold.)
09-16-2014 02:09 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-16-2014 02:09 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  
(09-16-2014 01:31 PM)magoo Wrote:  PS remember the First F-ing amendment!

Really? You don't understand the first amendment? The first amendment means the government can't censor you. People on a message board, or an employer, or a private business, etc. can tell you to shut up. The government can't.

Holy crap...is this guy for real? 03-lol

Way too early to fire Campbell...both in this season and in his tenure. He needs more time.
09-16-2014 02:34 PM
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RocketBBallFan Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
I think that any decision about coaching changes needs to wait until after the season has played out. As was posted earlier, the last MAC Championship that UT football won in 2004, they started the season with two blow out losses (63-21 and 63-14 to Minnesota and Kansas). I find it hard to believe that any Rockets fans thought that they could win the MAC after those two games, but they did! My point is, you can't make judgments about the success of a season until it is over.

With regard to Coach Campbell, sometimes it takes time to build a successful program. Look at the "other" Coach K at Duke. In his first three seasons, Duke went 17-13, 10-17, and 11-17. In today's sports world, if a coach started out with those records, they would be fired. Can you imagine if Duke hadn't been patient with him? They would've fired a man who would become one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time. If Duke fans think that they knew all along he was going to be such a success, that is hindsight bias. I'm sure many wanted him fired after that third season.

I'm not saying that Coach Campbell is going to become a college football coaching legend. I am simply saying that patience is a virtue. Rather than be upset about not becoming the next Boise State, let's get excited about what the realistic possibilities are for this current team: a MAC Championship and a bowl game. The reality is, football is just a game for our entertainment, so just enjoy the ride! Hopefully they'll give us some things to cheer about this season!
09-16-2014 03:12 PM
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Henry Burlingame Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-16-2014 03:12 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  I think that any decision about coaching changes needs to wait until after the season has played out. As was posted earlier, the last MAC Championship that UT football won in 2004, they started the season with two blow out losses (63-21 and 63-14 to Minnesota and Kansas). I find it hard to believe that any Rockets fans thought that they could win the MAC after those two games, but they did! My point is, you can't make judgments about the success of a season until it is over.

With regard to Coach Campbell, sometimes it takes time to build a successful program. Look at the "other" Coach K at Duke. In his first three seasons, Duke went 17-13, 10-17, and 11-17. In today's sports world, if a coach started out with those records, they would be fired. Can you imagine if Duke hadn't been patient with him? They would've fired a man who would become one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time. If Duke fans think that they knew all along he was going to be such a success, that is hindsight bias. I'm sure many wanted him fired after that third season.

I'm not saying that Coach Campbell is going to become a college football coaching legend. I am simply saying that patience is a virtue. Rather than be upset about not becoming the next Boise State, let's get excited about what the realistic possibilities are for this current team: a MAC Championship and a bowl game. The reality is, football is just a game for our entertainment, so just enjoy the ride! Hopefully they'll give us some things to cheer about this season!

Well said. Its good to know there are a few voices of reason out there.
09-16-2014 05:11 PM
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MotoRocket Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
The bright spot to me is that this team has a lot of talent on it. There are some pretty big boys that are pretty young - and if they stay in the program, we will continue to get stronger. Their are some guys that I have to look up to see who they are and where they came from I did not go to any games last year until the NIU game, but #10 and #14 look like they were given those numbers so nobody would notice how big they are.
09-16-2014 09:29 PM
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crusher38 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
i say give him the rest of this season before you call for his head.........


see where he is about halloween....
09-18-2014 01:29 AM
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magoo Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Fire Coach Campbell!
(09-18-2014 01:29 AM)crusher38 Wrote:  i say give him the rest of this season before you call for his head.........


see where he is about halloween....

I want to keep this thread alive.....
Just read all the threads after the BSU game, and most (if not all) had comments about poor coaching.
While happy that we beat Ball ST. in the Glass Bowl, our D still was horrible and playing 10 yds off the ball. While it got some stops resulting in FG's, it could have been much different.
This coaching staff is just to inexperienced to lead this program to a better/higher place. We get great recruiting classes but it doesn't translate to the field.
Campbell and company need to go!
09-22-2014 02:18 PM
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