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I'm sick and tired of people calling young men 18-23 kids. They are not kids, they are young men. They can vote. St 21 they can drinkk. They can smoke if they so choose. They can join the military. they also are no longer tried as a juvenile but as an adult. Its this attitude that gives all these young men the built in excuse of, "I'm still a kid. I didn't know what I was doing."

If people weren't so afraid to discipline their children and students before as they are growing up many of these young men wouldn't be in trouble today. It is time that we start teaching our children to be accountable and responsible for their actions.

After pleading guilty Rawls is now a convicted felon, awaiting sentencing, in the state of Michigan. As such, is he allowed to leave the state? I thought convicted felons had to remain in state, unless given permission by a judge to leave (can Brovol or WMUTKlaw weigh in on this)?

Seems CMU has been in this position before and actually went to the judge to get permission for the player travel with the team (I think in that case it was a player awaiting trial).

Or, since they have done it before, should be an established part of the program/system there.

(09-24-2014 07:25 AM)Broncobelt Wrote:  After pleading guilty Rawls is now a convicted felon, awaiting sentencing, in the state of Michigan. As such, is he allowed to leave the state? I thought convicted felons had to remain in state, unless given permission by a judge to leave (can Brovol or WMUTKlaw weigh in on this)?

Seems CMU has been in this position before and actually went to the judge to get permission for the player travel with the team (I think in that case it was a player awaiting trial).

Or, since they have done it before, should be an established part of the program/system there.

Not splitting hairs, didn't he plea down to a misdomeaner?

According to the Ann Arbor News, he was charged with three felonies. One for stealing, and two for using the cards. He admitted to stealing, which was felony larceny according the A2 News, in return for having the other felonies dropped.

The felony larceny charge carries a maximum of 4 years in prison. Since he's a first time offender, or at least we know this is the first time he's been caught, he will likely get a lenient sentence. In the mean time he is simply another "student athlete," in the great tradition of MAC student athletes.

His bond conditions could be amended, allowing him to travel outside of Michigan. Judge's discretion.

Quote:If people weren't so afraid to discipline their children and students before as they are growing up many of these young men wouldn't be in trouble today. It is time that we start teaching our children to be accountable and responsible for their actions

That's a simplistic view of things, for many of these kids it isn't about parents being afraid to discipline, as it is many coming from impoverished single parent homes with few resources, and with mom or dad often working two jobs to support the family and are rarely home.

Some of these families deal with intergenerational abuse and neglect that cascade from one generation to the next. We're at a point where many parents themselves were not parented and don't know how to parent either. It's a much more complex societal issue than parents being afraid to discipline their children. Ozzie and Harriet are dead.

(09-24-2014 09:07 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

Quote:If people weren't so afraid to discipline their children and students before as they are growing up many of these young men wouldn't be in trouble today. It is time that we start teaching our children to be accountable and responsible for their actions

That's a simplistic view of things, for many of these kids it isn't about parents being afraid to discipline, as it is many coming from impoverished single parent homes with few resources, and with mom or dad often working two jobs to support the family and are rarely home.

Some of these families deal with intergenerational abuse and neglect that cascade from one generation to the next. We're at a point where many parents themselves were not parented and don't know how to parent either. It's a much more complex societal issue than parents being afraid to discipline their children. Ozzie and Harriet are dead.

I grew up in a single parent home. My mother had a routine. She would go to work in the morning, come home and maybe make us some mac and cheese or fried potatoes, then she would go to the bar (leaving me home to babysit) then come home and go to bed just to do it all over again 5-7 days a week. We had little to no food and I would go to the neighbors and ask if they had any food. The clothes I wore were never new, they were second hand, hand-me-downs. I never wore new clothes until I reported to basic training on July 25, 1986, 2 months and 4 days after I turned 18. Occasionally I was disciplined by my grandfather but I didn't understand discipline until I joined the Army.

I was never part of a gang and because people would rather bully and pick on me I kept to myself. So, I had no outside influence on how I thought about how I should live or what I should do. So, I was never tempted by and succumbed to peer pressure to steal, assault and/or kill.

So this idea that it is a mental thing doesn't fly with me. I read in this thread that Rawls wasn't even thinking about it until his two buddies started getting into his ear. Like most people who want to feel accepted by his friends, he felt the only way to be accepted was to break the law and steal a woman's purse and credit card, instead of doing the right thing and turning it into security.

I v don't care what anyone thinks of me: at church, here, at work, anywhere. I know who I am, what I stand for and where my heart is and if anyone doesn't like it or me that's their problem, not mine.

If a person is still a kid in between 18 and 23, then the legal age to drink, smoke, vote and join the military should be 24.

(09-24-2014 09:56 AM)John52168 Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 09:07 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

Quote:If people weren't so afraid to discipline their children and students before as they are growing up many of these young men wouldn't be in trouble today. It is time that we start teaching our children to be accountable and responsible for their actions

That's a simplistic view of things, for many of these kids it isn't about parents being afraid to discipline, as it is many coming from impoverished single parent homes with few resources, and with mom or dad often working two jobs to support the family and are rarely home.

Some of these families deal with intergenerational abuse and neglect that cascade from one generation to the next. We're at a point where many parents themselves were not parented and don't know how to parent either. It's a much more complex societal issue than parents being afraid to discipline their children. Ozzie and Harriet are dead.

I grew up in a single parent home. My mother had a routine. She would go to work in the morning, come home and maybe make us some mac and cheese or fried potatoes, then she would go to the bar (leaving me home to babysit) then come home and go to bed just to do it all over again 5-7 days a week. We had little to no food and I would go to the neighbors and ask if they had any food. The clothes I wore were never new, they were second hand, hand-me-downs. I never wore new clothes until I reported to basic training on July 25, 1986, 2 months and 4 days after I turned 18. Occasionally I was disciplined by my grandfather but I didn't understand discipline until I joined the Army.

I was never part of a gang and because people would rather bully and pick on me I kept to myself. So, I had no outside influence on how I thought about how I should live or what I should do. So, I was never tempted by and succumbed to peer pressure to steal, assault and/or kill.

So this idea that it is a mental thing doesn't fly with me. I read in this thread that Rawls wasn't even thinking about it until his two buddies started getting into his ear. Like most people who want to feel accepted by his friends, he felt the only way to be accepted was to break the law and steal a woman's purse and credit card, instead of doing the right thing and turning it into security.

I v don't care what anyone thinks of me: at church, here, at work, anywhere. I know who I am, what I stand for and where my heart is and if anyone doesn't like it or me that's their problem, not mine.

If a person is still a kid in between 18 and 23, then the legal age to drink, smoke, vote and join the military should be 24.

Nice story, thank you for sharing. Be aware, that your anecdotal story is not everyone else's story. The research is quite clear about the effects of poverty and single-parent households on the lives of children. To assume that your life story represents that of others is incorrect. Clearly, your mother has skills that many mothers do not have. I practiced basketball as hard as I could, but I was never Michael Jordan.

(09-23-2014 10:41 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 10:08 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Yeah, but did you see how bad they were without him?

Like Rawls, Andrew Foury committed 3 felonies. Without Floury they won two games. Without Rawls they lost two games. Heeke and Enos simply did the math and decided to bank their futures on a convicted felon.

Dip, I believe you and I actually agree on something. I am very disappointed in the decision to reinstate Rawls. If he is needed to win in year 5 of the Enos era that speaks volumes of the job Enos has done. Gainer, the MSU transfer / grad, who played DE for CMU last year, was a great addition because of his character and maturity. Rawls has failed miserably in that regard.

FWIW, Rawls is not a "felon" because of a plea to a misdemeanor, but that doesn't change anything in my mind.

(09-24-2014 07:25 AM)Broncobelt Wrote:  After pleading guilty Rawls is now a convicted felon, awaiting sentencing, in the state of Michigan. As such, is he allowed to leave the state? I thought convicted felons had to remain in state, unless given permission by a judge to leave (can Brovol or WMUTKlaw weigh in on this)?

Seems CMU has been in this position before and actually went to the judge to get permission for the player travel with the team (I think in that case it was a player awaiting trial).

Or, since they have done it before, should be an established part of the program/system there.

wmutkelaw is spot on. Judges discretion. Unless I have a real concern of a defendant absconding, I routinely modify the standard bond condition and allow the defendant to leave for work, school, or other legitimate purpose.

(09-24-2014 09:07 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Ozzie and Harriet are dead.

great line

(09-24-2014 10:30 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 09:07 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Ozzie and Harriet are dead.

great line

Now we have Kanye and Kim.

(09-24-2014 10:08 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 09:56 AM)John52168 Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 09:07 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

Quote:If people weren't so afraid to discipline their children and students before as they are growing up many of these young men wouldn't be in trouble today. It is time that we start teaching our children to be accountable and responsible for their actions

That's a simplistic view of things, for many of these kids it isn't about parents being afraid to discipline, as it is many coming from impoverished single parent homes with few resources, and with mom or dad often working two jobs to support the family and are rarely home.

Some of these families deal with intergenerational abuse and neglect that cascade from one generation to the next. We're at a point where many parents themselves were not parented and don't know how to parent either. It's a much more complex societal issue than parents being afraid to discipline their children. Ozzie and Harriet are dead.

I grew up in a single parent home. My mother had a routine. She would go to work in the morning, come home and maybe make us some mac and cheese or fried potatoes, then she would go to the bar (leaving me home to babysit) then come home and go to bed just to do it all over again 5-7 days a week. We had little to no food and I would go to the neighbors and ask if they had any food. The clothes I wore were never new, they were second hand, hand-me-downs. I never wore new clothes until I reported to basic training on July 25, 1986, 2 months and 4 days after I turned 18. Occasionally I was disciplined by my grandfather but I didn't understand discipline until I joined the Army.

I was never part of a gang and because people would rather bully and pick on me I kept to myself. So, I had no outside influence on how I thought about how I should live or what I should do. So, I was never tempted by and succumbed to peer pressure to steal, assault and/or kill.

So this idea that it is a mental thing doesn't fly with me. I read in this thread that Rawls wasn't even thinking about it until his two buddies started getting into his ear. Like most people who want to feel accepted by his friends, he felt the only way to be accepted was to break the law and steal a woman's purse and credit card, instead of doing the right thing and turning it into security.

I v don't care what anyone thinks of me: at church, here, at work, anywhere. I know who I am, what I stand for and where my heart is and if anyone doesn't like it or me that's their problem, not mine.

If a person is still a kid in between 18 and 23, then the legal age to drink, smoke, vote and join the military should be 24.

Nice story, thank you for sharing. Be aware, that your anecdotal story is not everyone else's story. The research is quite clear about the effects of poverty and single-parent households on the lives of children. To assume that your life story represents that of others is incorrect. Clearly, your mother has skills that many mothers do not have. I practiced basketball as hard as I could, but I was never Michael Jordan.

Exactly. One of the many reasons 'zero tolerance' doesn't work.

I'm so sorry, and I'm SO glad to be back!!!

Quote for Enos

Quote:"I'll just say this, any of you guys who haven't made a mistake, please step forward."

Wow, how simplistic can you be? There are different kinds of mistakes, coach. But then you know that and just want to justify your actions.

Sounds like he is built in the Kelley mold. After all it was a mistake when the CMU football thugs kicked a drunk to death. Guess he would have let them play too.

(09-23-2014 04:15 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  ‏

Quote:Central Michigan has announced the reinstatement of senior running back Thomas Rawls for all team activities.

Per Nate Schneider on Twitter

Broncobelt, I hope you find the Brian Kelly/Young Frankenstein reply to this tweet as amusing as I did.

^I laughed out loud when I got to Matt Lemers response.

(09-24-2014 10:08 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 09:56 AM)John52168 Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 09:07 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

Quote:If people weren't so afraid to discipline their children and students before as they are growing up many of these young men wouldn't be in trouble today. It is time that we start teaching our children to be accountable and responsible for their actions

That's a simplistic view of things, for many of these kids it isn't about parents being afraid to discipline, as it is many coming from impoverished single parent homes with few resources, and with mom or dad often working two jobs to support the family and are rarely home.

Some of these families deal with intergenerational abuse and neglect that cascade from one generation to the next. We're at a point where many parents themselves were not parented and don't know how to parent either. It's a much more complex societal issue than parents being afraid to discipline their children. Ozzie and Harriet are dead.

I grew up in a single parent home. My mother had a routine. She would go to work in the morning, come home and maybe make us some mac and cheese or fried potatoes, then she would go to the bar (leaving me home to babysit) then come home and go to bed just to do it all over again 5-7 days a week. We had little to no food and I would go to the neighbors and ask if they had any food. The clothes I wore were never new, they were second hand, hand-me-downs. I never wore new clothes until I reported to basic training on July 25, 1986, 2 months and 4 days after I turned 18. Occasionally I was disciplined by my grandfather but I didn't understand discipline until I joined the Army.

I was never part of a gang and because people would rather bully and pick on me I kept to myself. So, I had no outside influence on how I thought about how I should live or what I should do. So, I was never tempted by and succumbed to peer pressure to steal, assault and/or kill.

So this idea that it is a mental thing doesn't fly with me. I read in this thread that Rawls wasn't even thinking about it until his two buddies started getting into his ear. Like most people who want to feel accepted by his friends, he felt the only way to be accepted was to break the law and steal a woman's purse and credit card, instead of doing the right thing and turning it into security.

I v don't care what anyone thinks of me: at church, here, at work, anywhere. I know who I am, what I stand for and where my heart is and if anyone doesn't like it or me that's their problem, not mine.

If a person is still a kid in between 18 and 23, then the legal age to drink, smoke, vote and join the military should be 24.

Nice story, thank you for sharing. Be aware, that your anecdotal story is not everyone else's story. The research is quite clear about the effects of poverty and single-parent households on the lives of children. To assume that your life story represents that of others is incorrect. Clearly, your mother has skills that many mothers do not have. I practiced basketball as hard as I could, but I was never Michael Jordan.

BC, It's not a story. It was real life and still is. The difference between these young men that grew up in poverty and myself, who also grew up in poverty and still struggles with poverty Is, these young men had someone or some people come into their life and help them get involved in athletics and became mentors to them. You can take someone out of bad environments, but you can't take the attitudes and behaviors learned through years of abuse and neglect unless the individual sincerely wants to change their life for the better. Trying to change someone who doesn't want to change is useless and pointless.