I AGREE WITH EVERY COMMENT MADE. But, I could see a situation where he attends classes. Is Drug tested constantly and is clean. Does what he is supposed to do. Isn't allowed on team as practice player till next spring. Is required to practice all next season without playing. Keeps attending classes. Keeps his nose clean. Plays spring ball again. Keeps doing right things. Fall comes around 16-17. If he has made no mistakes. I would allow this "current thug" an opportunity to right his life because he is no longer behaving like a thug. One mistake....OUT THE FLIPPIN DOOR. There have been issues over the last 4-5 years that have been addressed in a private manner [discipline issued-tough at times, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out] to keep the program clean. I'm sure the AD would have to be on board and this staffs track record on these type issues is stellar in my opinion. My desire is a taxpaying citizen and right now he isnt going to be one. Isn't that the "grand scheme" to athletics.

(09-21-2014 12:38 PM)tolfbfan Wrote:  I AGREE WITH EVERY COMMENT MADE. But, I could see a situation where he attends classes. Is Drug tested constantly and is clean. Does what he is supposed to do. Isn't allowed on team as practice player till next spring. Is required to practice all next season without playing. Keeps attending classes. Keeps his nose clean. Plays spring ball again. Keeps doing right things. Fall comes around 16-17. If he has made no mistakes. I would allow this "current thug" an opportunity to right his life because he is no longer behaving like a thug. One mistake....OUT THE FLIPPIN DOOR. There have been issues over the last 4-5 years that have been addressed in a private manner [discipline issued-tough at times, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out] to keep the program clean. I'm sure the AD would have to be on board and this staffs track record on these type issues is stellar in my opinion. My desire is a taxpaying citizen and right now he isnt going to be one. Isn't that the "grand scheme" to athletics.

and take away or withhold a scholarship and university resources from who? Someone that hasn't shown a need to be "redeemed?" Time and resources are limited. What makes this young man more deserving?

That video is always going to exist.

Whether what occurred he felt provoked, deserved, is his personality, was a slip of mind, whatever, it's never going to go away. Whatever reason he did react and act that way, I don't think it is going to go away because he's given an opportunity on the football team.

The young man can "redeem" himself though many paths but not through football. Do well in school, graduate, and live a productive, peaceful life, in that he might overcome the stigma of that video. He can find personal redemption, if that's in his vocabulary, through the hardest road. He does that and no one should be looking over his shoulder, judging him and still call themselves "righteous."

I would never inhibit the young man's attempts to or anyone's personal attempts on their own time to help him get all things right but there are plenty of others that can benefit from the opportunity of university athletics that haven't shown his slip of humanity.

Using university athletic resources IMO, should be off the table. Whatever he accomplishes at UT should be on his own efforts and his own nickel. Our coaching and athletic staff should not be involved.

That video is always going to exist. Quote by eastisbest.

It sure is and what a testimony to his change than for everyone to know how idiot he was at one time. I think Toledo's resources can and sometimes should be involved in a life changing event. Football is unimportant, lives are! Football could be an avenue to life change. Good idea on the walk on option. Maybe assign schollie later if kid is successful over a long period. We will just have to disagree.

I agree with the approach of giving somebody a chance if they can turn themselves around. I would also want some input from the victim to see if it affected his life long-term and now he has to deal with that the rest of his life. I've heard of situations where damage to the jaw can give someone a lifetime of pain.

As for videos - thank goodness there is not video around for all the stupid things that have been done by athletes and students in general - when they were just not thinking. violence may not be part of the equation for most, but I would bet there are things everyone has done that they would not want on a video that hits the internet.

In any event, he has created a much more difficult path for himself because he is now going to have to find a way to pay for his own classes and possibly live on campus in order to fight for the chance to play football again. It says a lot if he can do it. Most would not persevere. It will tell a lot if he got his wake-up call and then pays attention to it - and actually learned a lesson.

And, he will not take a scholarship away from anyone until he has earned it - and that could be a long time from now.

(09-21-2014 06:13 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  I agree with the approach of giving somebody a chance if they can turn themselves around. I would also want some input from the victim to see if it affected his life long-term and now he has to deal with that the rest of his life. I've heard of situations where damage to the jaw can give someone a lifetime of pain.

As for videos - thank goodness there is not video around for all the stupid things that have been done by athletes and students in general - when they were just not thinking. violence may not be part of the equation for most, but I would bet there are things everyone has done that they would not want on a video that hits the internet.

In any event, he has created a much more difficult path for himself because he is now going to have to find a way to pay for his own classes and possibly live on campus in order to fight for the chance to play football again. It says a lot if he can do it. Most would not persevere. It will tell a lot if he got his wake-up call and then pays attention to it - and actually learned a lesson.

And, he will not take a scholarship away from anyone until he has earned it - and that could be a long time from now.

Excellent post and along my line of thinking also. I could care less if he becomes a great rocket football player. I just hope there are avenues with strict control available so he can become a better person. That may include football down the road.

What was that running backs name Richards or something that was enrolled and on probation. All he had to do was be a student in good standing. Was Toledo Tom the one that tried give him a chance? But just because it did not work with him does not mean the next person should not have a chance to be a better person.

(09-21-2014 06:52 PM)Babes boy Wrote:  What was that running backs name Richards or something that was enrolled and on probation. All he had to do was be a student in good standing. Was Toledo Tom the one that tried give him a chance? But just because it did not work with him does not mean the next person should not have a chance to be a better person.

Ray Williams, I believe. From Cleveland Benedictine. Involved in a robbery where his friends was shot and killed. I don't believe he was ever on the team, he was only on the team as a tryout for a walkon, then screwed up and I believe went back to jail.

Quote:Former Michigan wide receiver Csont'e York was sentenced to seven days in jail after pleading guilty to aggravated assault and assault and battery charges a month ago.

Csont'e York also must pay $2K

I believe in giving kids a second chances, unless they're violent. Pass.

(09-21-2014 07:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 06:52 PM)Babes boy Wrote:  What was that running backs name Richards or something that was enrolled and on probation. All he had to do was be a student in good standing. Was Toledo Tom the one that tried give him a chance? But just because it did not work with him does not mean the next person should not have a chance to be a better person.

Ray Williams, I believe. From Cleveland Benedictine. Involved in a robbery where his friends was shot and killed. I don't believe he was ever on the team, he was only on the team as a tryout for a walkon, then screwed up and I believe went back to jail.

My recollection is that he used a toy gun to rob a pot/drug dealer in his neighborhood. The dealer gave up the cash and as they departed the scene, he pulled out a real gun and shot the 16 year old teammate of Williams. I don't know as that he ever went to jail for that - not sure. He participated in some practices at UT, then got caught stealing some devise from the bookstore that was needed for classes - and got caught. That ruined his probation terms and he was kicked out of school (from memory). He was an Army All-American and had his schollie to West Va. pulled after the incident in which his teammate was killed. He had a relative in Toledo and stayed with them in hopes of walking on and getting a schollie at Toledo. Unfortunate waste of some good talent.

The other guy you could have been thinking of was Richard Davis who showed up drunk and with a gun, on what he thought was the porch of a teammate he had a fight with. Turns out it was the front porch of a Law Enforcement officer (Deputy Sheriff or something like that). He was soon roommates with Maurice Clarett - sort of.

i don't have a vote so I trust Coach Campbell to make the right decision.

(10-24-2014 06:38 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 07:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 06:52 PM)Babes boy Wrote:  What was that running backs name Richards or something that was enrolled and on probation. All he had to do was be a student in good standing. Was Toledo Tom the one that tried give him a chance? But just because it did not work with him does not mean the next person should not have a chance to be a better person.

Ray Williams, I believe. From Cleveland Benedictine. Involved in a robbery where his friends was shot and killed. I don't believe he was ever on the team, he was only on the team as a tryout for a walkon, then screwed up and I believe went back to jail.

My recollection is that he used a toy gun to rob a pot/drug dealer in his neighborhood. The dealer gave up the cash and as they departed the scene, he pulled out a real gun
and shot the 16 year old teammate of Williams. I don't know as that he ever went to jail for that - not sure. He participated in some practices at UT, then got caught stealing some devise from the bookstore that was needed for classes - and got caught. That ruined his probation terms and he was kicked out of school (from memory). He was an Army All-American and had his schollie to West Va. pulled after the incident in which his teammate was killed. He had a relative in Toledo and stayed with them in hopes of walking on and getting a schollie at Toledo. Unfortunate waste of some good talent.

The other guy you could have been thinking of was Richard Davis who showed up drunk and with a gun, on what he thought was the porch of a teammate he had a fight with. Turns out it was the front porch of a Law Enforcement officer (Deputy Sheriff or something like that). He was soon roommates with Maurice Clarett - sort of.

Not sure what you mean about jail, but Davis' charges re: that allegation were dropped. He was kicked off the team but I'm unaware of any time in jail unless it was briefly when he was first charged.

(10-24-2014 11:17 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 06:38 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 07:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 06:52 PM)Babes boy Wrote:  What was that running backs name Richards or something that was enrolled and on probation. All he had to do was be a student in good standing. Was Toledo Tom the one that tried give him a chance? But just because it did not work with him does not mean the next person should not have a chance to be a better person.

Ray Williams, I believe. From Cleveland Benedictine. Involved in a robbery where his friends was shot and killed. I don't believe he was ever on the team, he was only on the team as a tryout for a walkon, then screwed up and I believe went back to jail.

My recollection is that he used a toy gun to rob a pot/drug dealer in his neighborhood. The dealer gave up the cash and as they departed the scene, he pulled out a real gun
and shot the 16 year old teammate of Williams. I don't know as that he ever went to jail for that - not sure. He participated in some practices at UT, then got caught stealing some devise from the bookstore that was needed for classes - and got caught. That ruined his probation terms and he was kicked out of school (from memory). He was an Army All-American and had his schollie to West Va. pulled after the incident in which his teammate was killed. He had a relative in Toledo and stayed with them in hopes of walking on and getting a schollie at Toledo. Unfortunate waste of some good talent.

The other guy you could have been thinking of was Richard Davis who showed up drunk and with a gun, on what he thought was the porch of a teammate he had a fight with. Turns out it was the front porch of a Law Enforcement officer (Deputy Sheriff or something like that). He was soon roommates with Maurice Clarett - sort of.

Not sure what you mean about jail, but Davis' charges re: that allegation were dropped. He was kicked off the team but I'm unaware of any time in jail unless it was briefly when he was first charged.

The joke at the time was the best backfield in Ohio was going to be in the Lucas County jail. He was locked up for some period of time, but not very long - and never was in the same cell with Mr. Clarett.

(10-25-2014 06:49 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 11:17 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 06:38 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(01-02-1970 10:12 AM)MidnightBlueGoldin Toledo.498' Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 06:52 PM)Babes boy Wrote:  What was that running backs name Richards or something that was enrolled and on probation. All he had to do was be a student in good standing. Was Toledo Tom the one that tried give him a chance? But just because it did not work with him does not mean the next person should not have a chance to be a better person.

Ray Williams, I believe. From Cleveland Benedictine. Involved in a robbery where his friends was shot and killed. I don't believe he was ever on the team, he was only on the team as a tryout for a walkon, then screwed up and I believe went back to jail.

My recollection is that he used a toy gun to rob a pot/drug dealer in his neighborhood. The dealer gave up the cash and as they departed the scene, he pulled out a real gun
and shot the 16 year old teammate of Williams. I don't know as that he ever went to jail for that - not sure. He participated in some practices at UT, then got caught stealing some devise from the bookstore that was needed for classes - and got caught. That ruined his probation terms and he was kicked out of school (from memory). He was an Army All-American and had his schollie to West Va. pulled after the incident in which his teammate was killed. He had a relative in Toledo and stayed with them in hopes of walking on and getting a schollie at Toledo. Unfortunate waste of some good talent.

The other guy you could have been thinking of was Richard Davis who showed up drunk and with a gun, on what he thought was the porch of a teammate he had a fight with. Turns out it was the front porch of a Law Enforcement officer (Deputy Sheriff or something like that). He was soon roommates with Maurice Clarett - sort of.

Not sure what you mean about jail, but Davis' charges re: that allegation were dropped. He was kicked off the team but I'm unaware of any time in jail unless it was briefly when he was first charged.

The joke at the time was the best backfield in Ohio was going to be in the Lucas County jail. He was locked up for some period of time, but not very long - and never was in the same cell with Mr. Clarett.

Forgot Clarett was I

(10-25-2014 06:49 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 11:17 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 06:38 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 07:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 06:52 PM)Babes boy Wrote:  What was that running backs name Richards or something that was enrolled and on probation. All he had to do was be a student in good standing. Was Toledo Tom the one that tried give him a chance? But just because it did not work with him does not mean the next person should not have a chance to be a better person.

Ray Williams, I believe. From Cleveland Benedictine. Involved in a robbery where his friends was shot and killed. I don't believe he was ever on the team, he was only on the team as a tryout for a walkon, then screwed up and I believe went back to jail.

My recollection is that he used a toy gun to rob a pot/drug dealer in his neighborhood. The dealer gave up the cash and as they departed the scene, he pulled out a real gun
and shot the 16 year old teammate of Williams. I don't know as that he ever went to jail for that - not sure. He participated in some practices at UT, then got caught stealing some devise from the bookstore that was needed for classes - and got caught. That ruined his probation terms and he was kicked out of school (from memory). He was an Army All-American and had his schollie to West Va. pulled after the incident in which his teammate was killed. He had a relative in Toledo and stayed with them in hopes of walking on and getting a schollie at Toledo. Unfortunate waste of some good talent.

The other guy you could have been thinking of was Richard Davis who showed up drunk and with a gun, on what he thought was the porch of a teammate he had a fight with. Turns out it was the front porch of a Law Enforcement officer (Deputy Sheriff or something like that). He was soon roommates with Maurice Clarett - sort of.

Not sure what you mean about jail, but Davis' charges re: that allegation were dropped. He was kicked off the team but I'm unaware of any time in jail unless it was briefly when he was first charged.

The joke at the time was the best backfield in Ohio was going to be in the Lucas County jail. He was locked up for some period of time, but not very long - and never was in the same cell with Mr. Clarett.

It was Ray Williams who went to prison, not Davis.

Raymond Williams violates probation; sent to prison

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/05/..._prob.html

Glad this stuff happened so long ago that people can't remember the details...

(10-25-2014 08:28 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 06:49 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 11:17 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 06:38 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 07:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  Ray Williams, I believe. From Cleveland Benedictine. Involved in a robbery where his friends was shot and killed. I don't believe he was ever on the team, he was only on the team as a tryout for a walkon, then screwed up and I believe went back to jail.

My recollection is that he used a toy gun to rob a pot/drug dealer in his neighborhood. The dealer gave up the cash and as they departed the scene, he pulled out a real gun
and shot the 16 year old teammate of Williams. I don't know as that he ever went to jail for that - not sure. He participated in some practices at UT, then got caught stealing some devise from the bookstore that was needed for classes - and got caught. That ruined his probation terms and he was kicked out of school (from memory). He was an Army All-American and had his schollie to West Va. pulled after the incident in which his teammate was killed. He had a relative in Toledo and stayed with them in hopes of walking on and getting a schollie at Toledo. Unfortunate waste of some good talent.

The other guy you could have been thinking of was Richard Davis who showed up drunk and with a gun, on what he thought was the porch of a teammate he had a fight with. Turns out it was the front porch of a Law Enforcement officer (Deputy Sheriff or something like that). He was soon roommates with Maurice Clarett - sort of.

Not sure what you mean about jail, but Davis' charges re: that allegation were dropped. He was kicked off the team but I'm unaware of any time in jail unless it was briefly when he was first charged.

The joke at the time was the best backfield in Ohio was going to be in the Lucas County jail. He was locked up for some period of time, but not very long - and never was in the same cell with Mr. Clarett.

It was Ray Williams who went to prison, not Davis.

He never went to prison/jail in Lucas County. He had a probation violation that triggered his prior conviction of manslaughter that had been suspended. His jail time was in Cleveland area.

Like I said before, Davis spent some time in jail, but I don't believe he was in the Lucas County jail. I'm not inclined to look it up but trust my memory - sort of.

(10-24-2014 08:40 PM)San Giuseppe Jato Rocket Wrote:  i don't have a vote so I trust Coach Campbell to make the right decision.

I don/t trust him on this. I can definitely see him bringing him on to the team.

1. its 2am at a bar... yeah, no one gets into fights...

2. He took him out in one punch... that is pretty interesting...

3. if he gets convicted he is going to jail.. probably for at least 6 months for felonious assault... so, given that it will take about 6 to 8 months to go to trial... he will not be playing next year...

4. I think he should be given a fair trial... then, once all of the evidence has been heard, that's when I will make a decision...

5. It appears Matt has been increasing the grade point average of the team and holding the team to a high standard... I hope he continues that trend..

(10-25-2014 08:50 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:28 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 06:49 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 11:17 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 06:38 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  My recollection is that he used a toy gun to rob a pot/drug dealer in his neighborhood. The dealer gave up the cash and as they departed the scene, he pulled out a real gun
and shot the 16 year old teammate of Williams. I don't know as that he ever went to jail for that - not sure. He participated in some practices at UT, then got caught stealing some devise from the bookstore that was needed for classes - and got caught. That ruined his probation terms and he was kicked out of school (from memory). He was an Army All-American and had his schollie to West Va. pulled after the incident in which his teammate was killed. He had a relative in Toledo and stayed with them in hopes of walking on and getting a schollie at Toledo. Unfortunate waste of some good talent.

The other guy you could have been thinking of was Richard Davis who showed up drunk and with a gun, on what he thought was the porch of a teammate he had a fight with. Turns out it was the front porch of a Law Enforcement officer (Deputy Sheriff or something like that). He was soon roommates with Maurice Clarett - sort of.

Not sure what you mean about jail, but Davis' charges re: that allegation were dropped. He was kicked off the team but I'm unaware of any time in jail unless it was briefly when he was first charged.

The joke at the time was the best backfield in Ohio was going to be in the Lucas County jail. He was locked up for some period of time, but not very long - and never was in the same cell with Mr. Clarett.

It was Ray Williams who went to prison, not Davis.

He never went to prison/jail in Lucas County. He had a probation violation that triggered his prior conviction of manslaughter that had been suspended. His jail time was in Cleveland area.

Like I said before, Davis spent some time in jail, but I don't believe he was in the Lucas County jail. I'm not inclined to look it up but trust my memory - sort of.

Part of the reason for the nolle prosequi is that he had no priors and I'm fairly certain if there had been any legal matters subsequently that the blade would never have passed up an opportunity to bring up that incident yet again.