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We did beat them that season. Gill seized the moment and timing well, parlaying that weak East and winning the MACC game to get the big gig. Only shows you never can tell, he really wasn't all that. I'm hoping for similar luck and timing with a certain MAC coach.

Examples of first-time head coaches who struggled in the beginning and turned things around:

Bill Snyder (Kansas St.)
1989: 1–10, 0-7
1990: 5–6, 2–5
1991: 7–4, 4–3
1992: 5–6, 2–5
1993: 9–2–1, 4–2–1
1994: 9–3, 5–2
1995: 10–2, 5-2

Greg Schiano (Rutgers)
2001: 2–9, 0–7
2002: 1–11, 0–7
2003: 5–7, 2–5
2004: 4–7, 1–5
2005: 7–5, 4–3
2006: 11–2, 5–2

Joe Novak (NIU)
1996: 1–10
1997: 0–11, 0–8
1998: 2–9, 2–6
1999: 5–6, 5–3
2000: 6–5, 4–3
2001: 6–5, 4–3
2002: 8–4 7–1
2003: 10–2, 6-2

Pat Fitzgerald (Northwestern)
2006: 4–8, 2–6
2007: 6–6, 3–5
2008: 9–4, 5–3
2009: 8–5, 5–3
2010: 7–6, 3–5
2011: 6–7, 3–5
2012: 10–3, 5–3

Al Golden (Temple)
2006: 1–11
2007: 4–8, 4–4
2008: 5–7, 4–4
2009: 9–4, 7–1
2010: 8–4, 5–3

Mike Gundy (Oklahoma State)
2005: 4–7, 1–7
2006: 7–6, 3–5
2007: 7–6, 4–4
2008: 9–4, 5–3
2009: 9–4, 6–2
2010: 11–2, 6–2
2011: 12–1, 8-1

There's no was in heck the admin will let it get to year 5 if a path similar to Schiano unfolds. Short of beating CMU 3 years in a row and showing huge promise in year 5 (think 20 starters returning), there's no way they give an extension.

(08-02-2014 10:02 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Examples of first-time head coaches who struggled in the beginning and turned things around:

Bill Snyder (Kansas St.)
1989: 1–10, 0-7
1990: 5–6, 2–5
1991: 7–4, 4–3
1992: 5–6, 2–5
1993: 9–2–1, 4–2–1
1994: 9–3, 5–2
1995: 10–2, 5-2

Greg Schiano (Rutgers)
2001: 2–9, 0–7
2002: 1–11, 0–7
2003: 5–7, 2–5
2004: 4–7, 1–5
2005: 7–5, 4–3
2006: 11–2, 5–2

Joe Novak (NIU)
1996: 1–10
1997: 0–11, 0–8
1998: 2–9, 2–6
1999: 5–6, 5–3
2000: 6–5, 4–3
2001: 6–5, 4–3
2002: 8–4 7–1
2003: 10–2, 6-2

Pat Fitzgerald (Northwestern)
2006: 4–8, 2–6
2007: 6–6, 3–5
2008: 9–4, 5–3
2009: 8–5, 5–3
2010: 7–6, 3–5
2011: 6–7, 3–5
2012: 10–3, 5–3

Al Golden (Temple)
2006: 1–11
2007: 4–8, 4–4
2008: 5–7, 4–4
2009: 9–4, 7–1
2010: 8–4, 5–3

Mike Gundy (Oklahoma State)
2005: 4–7, 1–7
2006: 7–6, 3–5
2007: 7–6, 4–4
2008: 9–4, 5–3
2009: 9–4, 6–2
2010: 11–2, 6–2
2011: 12–1, 8-1

The old guard is a "results-now" generation, apparently. They need instant gratification and can't appreciate the patience and hard work it takes to build a winner. Thank goodness some of the posters on this board were not in a position to fire the outstanding coaches named above.

(08-02-2014 10:06 AM)EA3 Wrote:  There's no was in heck the admin will let it get to year 5 if a path similar to Schiano unfolds. Short of beating CMU 3 years in a row and showing huge promise in year 5 (think 20 starters returning), there's no way they give an extension.

Agree. I am expecting a path more similar to Al Golden's realistically.

Hard to figure our admin out, maybe they could stick with this, weighing the alternatives and being told "no" by the coaching community might have them wary.

They stuck with Culhane for years. He was different though, he was a great guy, well liked by his coworkers and a Bronco through and through.

I think Golden and Fleck is a good comparison. Golden turned it around with recruiting. Had he been good QB he would have had even more success.

Golden can coach, no doubt what he's done at Temple and Miami is remarkable. I think he benefited greatly from working as a DC for four years with Al Groh.

(08-02-2014 10:17 AM)BroncoLifer Wrote:  Golden can coach, no doubt what he's done at Temple and Miami is remarkable. I think he benefited greatly from working as a DC for four years with Al Groh.

But you wouldn't know he could coach in his. First few years. He, like Fleck had to stockpile some talent.

I would also say that working for Shiono was probably beneficial.

(08-02-2014 10:10 AM)ChuckNorris Wrote:  The old guard is a "results-now" generation, apparently. They need instant gratification and can't appreciate the patience and hard work it takes to build a winner. Thank goodness some of the posters on this board were not in a position to fire the outstanding coaches named above.

Problem is the old guard has never seen a true "rebuild" here. It's always been a quick-fix situation that dates back to the Doolittle years and hasn't worked out in the long-term.

(08-02-2014 10:23 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(08-02-2014 10:17 AM)BroncoLifer Wrote:  Golden can coach, no doubt what he's done at Temple and Miami is remarkable. I think he benefited greatly from working as a DC for four years with Al Groh.

But you wouldn't know he could coach in his. First few years. He, like Fleck had to stockpile some talent.

I would also say that working for Shiono was probably beneficial.

Good points, but Groh took over a Temple program that was flat out down and out, they hadn't had a winning team in years, many winless seasons for almost two decades if memory serves and had only a few years when it won 3 games until they hired Groh who turned it around in short order.

Anyone who talked about the job he was doing at Temple had good things to say about how the team was competing and improving during his first couple of losing seasons.

Hope we can hear that from our discussions soon. It really didn't turn out that way last year.

Groh had many successful years in the NFL as a coordinator before going to Virginia, was and still is a well respected man amongst the coaching community.

Schianio, not so much.

Schiano took a dead program and put them in the top 5 in the country. Yeah, that's no biggy

Could you provide examples of Schiano not being well respected in the coaching community? I would love to read about what your sources have told you. That may be the single dumbest sentence written on the internet today, and that's saying a lot.

(08-02-2014 11:03 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Schiano took a dead program and put them in the top 5 in the country. Yeah, that's no biggy

His fifth sixth year was a good one, but unfortunately for him, that proved to be the outlier. The highest he finished in the AP was 12th, and that was the only ranking I see them keeping in the top 25 by the end of the year.

His antics at Tampa Bay are book worthy, I don't know if gaining experience from a NFL program is disarray is something to write home about.

Quote:Chuck asked....Could you provide examples of Schiano not being well respected in the coaching community? I would love to read about what your sources have told you. That may be the single dumbest sentence written on the internet today, and that's saying a lot.

Your challenge to that fact is a dumber one Chuck.

As far as "examples" of not being respected, it's beyond heresay, more like common knowledge, no footnote required. "Kneel down incident" anyone? I guess I assumed we were talking with sports fans here who had a grasp on the events and perception. One glaring example.

Quote:This is a sensitive subject in scouting circles, because Schiano was almost universally viewed as unaccommodating, intimidating and downright disrespectful by NFL representatives who paid visits to Rutgers from 2001-11, and there were plenty of groans and eye-rolls when he accepted the Bucs job last January.

As one veteran NFL coach said of Schiano earlier this week, "It's his way or [expletive] you. He needs to back up a little bit, or he's going to have a very hard time in this league over the long haul."

I still am perplexed by you guys equating our coach Fleck to Miami's HC Golden who has had a track record of success and supporting it with reverse logic of "they didn't know he was good at Temple".

He got hired to turn the program around and delivered, Temple focused on football at the time with the new conference alignments taking place, his hire was a big deal, he was in the running for quite a few jobs if you remember, not just Temple. They executed a great coaching search and hire, it worked out well for them.

Golden was 1-11 in his first year.

"Yeah, there's no comparison!"

Had the people at Temple looked at Golden through your eyes they'd have canned him in his first year.

(08-02-2014 11:25 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Golden was 1-11 in his first year.

"Yeah, there's no comparison!"

Had the people at Temple looked at Golden through your eyes they'd have canned him in his first year.

That's funny, but Temple was down for almost two decades, not playing in a bowl two years before and competing with teams like Minnesota and beating BCS teams like UCONN the previous year.

Golden was getting accolades for "doing it right" his first year if you remember. Not "buffoonish".

I think it was a direct result of working for such a respected man like Al Groh.

So one "veteran" NFL coach speaks for the entire coaching community, I guess. Wow.

Al Groh is a respected coordinator who was a mediocre head coach and everyone loves him except the people who hire HCs. He never won his conference or utilized the NFL talent that came through his program to take the next step. Sound familiar?

(08-02-2014 11:39 AM)ChuckNorris Wrote:  So one "veteran" NFL coach speaks for the entire coaching community, I guess. Wow.

You obviously didn't read that Chuck, or you can't comprehend.

Either way, there are plenty of adectdotal reminders about the overall lack of respct Schanio has throughout the community, all you have to do is listen or read.

You asked for examples, I gave you a great one and it cited many others who felt the same way.

(08-02-2014 12:17 PM)ghost bronco Wrote:  Al Groh is a respected coordinator who was a mediocre head coach and everyone loves him except the people who hire HCs. He never won his conference or utilized the NFL talent that came through his program to take the next step. Sound familiar?

Greg Schanio wasn't very well received by the local community with his recent hire, lost a lot more than he won there, was perceived to be a jerk by many within the organization, and not well respected amongst the coaching circles.

Sound familiar?