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Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
The Federal Highway Act championed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower and passed by Congress in 1956 would go down as one of the largest public infrastructure projects ever to take place in the US.

Quote:With an original authorization of 25 billion dollars for the construction of 41,000 miles (66,000 km) of the Interstate Highway System supposedly over a 10-year period....the original portion was completed 35 years later. The network has since been extended, and as of 2012, it had a total length of 47,714 miles (76,788 km), making it the world's second longest after China's. As of 2011, about one-quarter of all vehicle miles driven in the country use the Interstate system. The cost of construction has been estimated at $425 billion (in 2006 dollars).

Eisenhower was influenced by the German autobahn during WWII when he saw the logistical advantages of a highway road system for the movement of troops, weapons, supplies, etc. The major impetus of the interstate system in the US was therefore based on a national defense strategy. For better and for worse, as time went by the interstates ended up shaping the development of our cities, influencing our social culture and impacting our economy. Of course, the cost to maintain the system has now become problematic as the Feds and States struggle with budgets and the environmental impacts on air quality and the dependence on foreign oil have been well documented. Are we better off as a result of the development of the interstate system, worse, or is it a break-even outcome? What do you think?
07-05-2014 02:23 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
We are far better off, dude. Without Interstates, the Appalachian Regional Development Commission, and other federal programs that have benefited many parts of the nation, goods and services would not travel as easily, and many conveniences we take for granted would cost far more. It would take longer to get anywhere, and cost more too.

I remember before the interstates were built in West Virginia. A trip from Charleston to Morgantown used to be an all day affair. Now the trip takes around 2½ hours. Imagine what a cross country trip used to take in the days before interstates.
07-05-2014 02:40 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
We should do what is done in several European countries. Privatize the interstate highway system as a national toll road system. Let the social security administration own it, transfer it in exchange for a like amount of social security liabilities. I've seen estimates that such a system would generate $50 billion in net revenues a year. Based on a 5% ROI, the transfer would generate a $1 trillion offset to liabilities.

With privatized management, maintenance would improve and new construction would focus on places that would generate the most revenues--which would be those with the greatest needs. The $50 billion annual profit would reduce the social security shortfall.

Do the same thing with the post office, Amtrak, TVA, the western water and power authorities, air traffic control, and a few others. All these would simply be following models that have proved to work over and over in numerous foreign countries. And whether that would be liberal of conservative would be hard to define, because privatization sounds conservative but most of the countries where it has worked would be considered far left or socialist.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2014 09:00 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-05-2014 04:01 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
It's been a huge success. They are the arteries in our economic system.
07-05-2014 04:15 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
I think it should have been set up differently, as a pass through to the states who could with the money upgrade US Routes.

What happened with all these new roads is they contributed to the decline and realignment of traditional rural economic centers. Small cities that were located on important rivers served by US Routes didn't necessarily receive interstates if they weren't located between major cities.

Other small cities that had lessor economic importance before the interstates blossomed after them with waves of new development. Exits became a center of shopping adding tax revenue for those cities. The radius by which people will travel for shopping has increased sharply for those cities.

If instead the US Route system was upgraded there wouldn't be as much displacement as what there was. There could still be outer belts but they would be tied to the US Routes. Further states would have the option of investing in rail. One thing to consider, there is nothing to stop the interstates from realigning the US Routes away from certain cities it it is more cost effective.
07-05-2014 06:46 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
I think the positives outweigh the negatives. For example, it's far more efficient to transport goods on interstates between the coasts and inner America than using the older US Highway routes. The US Highway routes became the main street through plenty of towns, while interstates completely went around or over them. For example, I can get to downtown Pittsburgh in 15 minutes using I79 and I376. If I use US19, it would take me closer to 30-45 minutes. You get far better gas mileage traveling the interstate highways as well.

Kittonhead, I totally understand where you're coming from, but I do find the interstate system more effective. For me to get to DC, I can jump on I79 to I68 to I70 to I270 and get there in about 4 1/2 hours as opposed to using US 19 through Washington PA to US 40 and go through little towns like Brownsville PA, Uniontown PA, Hagerstown MD, Frederick MD, and all the little towns that the state roads go through to get to DC. I'm sure it was a blow to those economies and left many as "ghost towns". But the Interstate system also helped make some towns grow as well. Cranberry and Wexford (suburbs of Pittsburgh) benefited from I79.
07-06-2014 02:05 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
And as for how some cities got bypassed by the Interstate system, it was often a political decision by the people of the city in question. Huntington, WV, for example, decided that they didn't want the Interstate through the city. So they built it just to the east of town, bypassing it completely. Later on, they decided not to build a mall in the city. So it went to Barboursville instead, just off I-64. Now Barboursville is booming. Huntington has Marshall University, and not much else.

Not all decisions about where the Interstates were built were left up to the federal government. Local governments had their say in the process as well. Those who wanted the Interstates built through their town have plenty of business and industry. Those who didn't want them don't. It's that simple.

The federal government let people make up their own minds on this. If people wanted to cut their own economic throat, it's their decision. Nobody forced it upon them.
07-06-2014 11:20 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
The routing of Interstates contrasts with Europe and Canada. European and Canadian superhighways pretty much bypass metro areas completely. In Europe particularly, when the streets were laid out for oxcarts 1000 years ago, it's a bit more difficult to overlay superhighways. You may have a spur route that goes at least partway downtown, like London with the M3 giving way to the A3 partway into town and same for the other motorways. But extensive through the city freeways as in LA or Chicago or Houston just don't exist in Europe, nor in Canada with the possible exception of Toronto.
07-06-2014 11:40 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-05-2014 04:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We should do what is done in several European countries. Privatize the interstate highway system as a national toll road system. Let the social security administration own it, transfer it in exchange for a like amount of social security liabilities. I've seen estimates that such a system would generate $50 billion in net revenues a year. Based on a 5% ROI, the transfer would generate a $1 trillion offset to liabilities.

With privatized management, maintenance would improve and new construction would focus on places that would generate the most revenues--which would be those with the greatest needs. The $50 billion annual profit would reduce the social security shortfall.

Do the same thing with the post office, Amtrak, TVA, the western water and power authorities, air traffic control, and a few others. All these would simply be following models that have proved to work over and over in numerous foreign countries. And whether that would be liberal of conservative would be hard to define, because privatization sounds conservative but most of the countries where it has worked would be considered far left or socialist.

What makes you think maintenance would improve with privatization? I mean, I'd like to think so but if there's only one practical road to take between 2 points, they could easily jack up the toll rates and not maintain it which would save them lots of money, and still get away with it. I can see the private companies making money off of it, that's about it.
07-06-2014 09:11 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-06-2014 09:11 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 04:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We should do what is done in several European countries. Privatize the interstate highway system as a national toll road system. Let the social security administration own it, transfer it in exchange for a like amount of social security liabilities. I've seen estimates that such a system would generate $50 billion in net revenues a year. Based on a 5% ROI, the transfer would generate a $1 trillion offset to liabilities.

With privatized management, maintenance would improve and new construction would focus on places that would generate the most revenues--which would be those with the greatest needs. The $50 billion annual profit would reduce the social security shortfall.

Do the same thing with the post office, Amtrak, TVA, the western water and power authorities, air traffic control, and a few others. All these would simply be following models that have proved to work over and over in numerous foreign countries. And whether that would be liberal of conservative would be hard to define, because privatization sounds conservative but most of the countries where it has worked would be considered far left or socialist.
What makes you think maintenance would improve with privatization? I mean, I'd like to think so but if there's only one practical road to take between 2 points, they could easily jack up the toll rates and not maintain it which would save them lots of money, and still get away with it. I can see the private companies making money off of it, that's about it.
Agreed. The privatization of our Interstate system would turn every Interstate across the nation into poorly maintained, overpriced, and not worth traveling highways. It would be an entire nation of Pennsylvania Turnpikes.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2014 09:50 PM by bitcruncher.)
07-06-2014 09:46 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
Privatization or tolls on the interstates would be catastrophic for the economy. I'm surprised anybody would even suggest it.
07-06-2014 10:50 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
Can't say I'm a fan of privatization either. I'm very afraid that private corporations would go oversea's for the rebar and steal and that would be the final nail in the coffin for the steel industry in the US.
07-06-2014 11:02 PM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
Roads between states are one of the few things our FedGov does these days that's Constitutional.
07-07-2014 08:13 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-06-2014 11:02 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Can't say I'm a fan of privatization either. I'm very afraid that private corporations would go oversea's for the rebar and steal and that would be the final nail in the coffin for the steel industry in the US.

I was mostly thinking of skyrocketing costs for shipping.
07-07-2014 10:31 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-06-2014 09:11 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What makes you think maintenance would improve with privatization?

Because that's what happens in the places that have done that.

In fact, of all the functions I listed, every one has been privatized in more than one place overseas, and performance has consistently improved in every one.

There is no reason for them to do any of the things you allege that doesn't already exist in government-monopoly roads.
07-07-2014 11:20 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-06-2014 10:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Privatization or tolls on the interstates would be catastrophic for the economy. I'm surprised anybody would even suggest it.

You mean, like it is in Europe?
07-07-2014 11:21 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-05-2014 04:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We should do what is done in several European countries. Privatize the interstate highway system as a national toll road system. Let the social security administration own it, transfer it in exchange for a like amount of social security liabilities. I've seen estimates that such a system would generate $50 billion in net revenues a year. Based on a 5% ROI, the transfer would generate a $1 trillion offset to liabilities.

With privatized management, maintenance would improve and new construction would focus on places that would generate the most revenues--which would be those with the greatest needs. The $50 billion annual profit would reduce the social security shortfall.

Do the same thing with the post office, Amtrak, TVA, the western water and power authorities, air traffic control, and a few others. All these would simply be following models that have proved to work over and over in numerous foreign countries. And whether that would be liberal of conservative would be hard to define, because privatization sounds conservative but most of the countries where it has worked would be considered far left or socialist.

But they are already tolled. That's why the national gas tax was for. Now, the tax might not cover what it used to because of increased cost and monies collected being diverted to transit, but this method of financing led to the system that exists today.

And while a toll system sounds great on paper, the performance and maintenance of the current toll roads (Penn, NJ Turnpike, Garden State) don't fill me with a lot of confidence.
07-07-2014 11:29 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-07-2014 11:29 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  And while a toll system sounds great on paper, the performance and maintenance of the current toll roads (Penn, NJ Turnpike, Garden State) don't fill me with a lot of confidence.

I don't believe those are privatized.
07-07-2014 11:47 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-07-2014 11:47 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 11:29 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  And while a toll system sounds great on paper, the performance and maintenance of the current toll roads (Penn, NJ Turnpike, Garden State) don't fill me with a lot of confidence.

I don't believe those are privatized.

No, they aren't private. But I've heard mixed reviews regarding the privatization of the Chicago Skyway and the Indiana Toll Road. I guess my biggest issue with going private is that such a transfer is somehow better because the profit motive minimizes malfeasance. But doesn't that mean the we are simply electing piss poor gov't administrators?

Privatizing the Penn Turnpike won't improve the road any because the problems with that highway have little to do with the road itself and more to do with the fact that it is a 19th century design that is decidedly incomparable with late 20th century travel standards.

Living in GA, I have very few reasons to rant at me state DOT. Outside of needing to redo a couple of interchanges, the roads are nicely paved and well maintained. The biggest issue I have is some 4 lane highway being built in South Ga. that no one will travel on.

I'm a proponent of the Interstate System and felt that it connected a massive country in a very cost effective manner. The fact that we have traffic jams are a testament of the systems success and desirability.
07-07-2014 12:04 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Nearly 60 Years Later: Did the Federal Highway Act Help or Hurt?
(07-07-2014 11:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-06-2014 10:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Privatization or tolls on the interstates would be catastrophic for the economy. I'm surprised anybody would even suggest it.

You mean, like it is in Europe?

Remind me again, is the United States in Europe?

It isn't a bad idea, if all you care about is the deficit. However, there are other things that privatizing or tolling the interstate would do. You'd hurt tourism across the country in places not easily accessible by air. Tourism in other places would suffer too since a lot of Americans still drive everywhere. Costs of goods would increase at a pretty steady clip as transportation costs increased. The price of everything would increase thanks to that, not to mention it would happen in two ways. It would increase the cost of fuel, since it is trucked, and in turn would increase general transportation.

Overall, it would be catastrophic.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 02:13 PM by HeartOfDixie.)
07-07-2014 01:55 PM
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