The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(05-20-2014 08:58 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  You can't really claim dominance if you in fact are not currently dominating... the only thing we are dominating is "recruiting" which has been argued here to be more of a program enthusiasm generator than a hard fact based reality... i.e. we are still holding a solid 9.1% winning percentage under Fleck and current recruiting has not yet changed that fact. Lets hope it eventually has a positive effect... but dominating? Right now we are very much NOT.

I knew we were bad at 1-11, but the <10% winning % still is pretty eye popping. Just never thought about it in terms of win percentage (or more like loss %). Our last four coaches, who all were fired, averaged 50% or better. Even Uzelac (5 coaches ago) was just a hair under 50% when he was canned. PJ has a long way to go just to get us back to where we were prior to his arrival.

I won't be smack talking Chimps for awhile (unless we're talking basketball). As both Flush and DB said, we need to have wins before we can really boast.

(05-20-2014 09:24 AM)Broncobelt Wrote:  I won't be smack talking Chimps for awhile (unless we're talking basketball). As both Flush and DB said, we need to have wins before we can really boast.

Exactly.

Boys, you give the Chimps too much credit. They really haven't been all that good. Throw out the four year stretch under BK and Butch and they have had a plethora of losing seasons. Flynn, Debo, and Enos have done nothing.

CMU may very well have a winning season this year. They return a lot of players, and the top of the league loses a lot of players. Their schedule is favorable. They could actually back into 7 or 8 wins if they can win the OOC games that appear winnable. From a recruiting standpoint if Enos can't put a winning team on the field this year I can't see him attracting much talent to CMU. WMU, BG, UT, and BSU have a much larger presence in Detroit and Chicago than CMU does. It wasn't always that way. Hence Coach Sominex is out in the hinterlands of Mendon and Greenville finding the hidden gems that no one else seems to be aware of.

That said, I think you are witnessing a team headed for the $hitter in two years. Their last two recruiting classes have been awful. He's been terrible at recruiting the most important position on the field (QB), bringing in Boone, a felon, who is now gone, Niznak, who never fit his system, now gone, and Rush, who is a bigger pick machine than RR was.

Ultimately it is talent that wins games. If you aren't contending for talent with other MAC or lower tier BIG schools, then you're not going to get it done down the road. And yapping about the good old days under BK ain't going to change that.

(05-20-2014 09:24 AM)Broncobelt Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 08:58 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  You can't really claim dominance if you in fact are not currently dominating... the only thing we are dominating is "recruiting" which has been argued here to be more of a program enthusiasm generator than a hard fact based reality... i.e. we are still holding a solid 9.1% winning percentage under Fleck and current recruiting has not yet changed that fact. Lets hope it eventually has a positive effect... but dominating? Right now we are very much NOT.

I knew we were bad at 1-11, but the <10% winning % still is pretty eye popping. Just never thought about it in terms of win percentage (or more like loss %). Our last four coaches, who all were fired, averaged 50% or better. Even Uzelac (5 coaches ago) was just a hair under 50% when he was canned. PJ has a long way to go just to get us back to where we were prior to his arrival.

I won't be smack talking Chimps for awhile (unless we're talking basketball). As both Flush and DB said, we need to have wins before we can really boast.

I won't be talking smack with them either..........as their 65 IQer and Mod "Joseph Stateman Geobels" only allows slappy happy talk. A mod that never went to school there? Reminds me of when Grubby was our mod. The idiots are running the asylum over there.

Dip, you can say that CMU hasn't been all that good except for that 4 year stretch. And you would be correct.

Here's the problem. THEY HAD THAT 4 YEAR STRETCH.

We haven't had 4 years like that, period. Forget a 4 year stretch, we haven't EVER had 4 single years like that.

I started reading this thread, and while I agree that I am glad we don't have Enos. I have friends who are CMU grads and they have wanted him gone for 4 years now. I really don't understand A: why we care that his recruiting class has 9 guys that nobody else wanted and B: why we would talk too much junk. Our team just went 1-11 and lost to the team we are mocking. I'd rather see us focus on our own team rather than try and spin why we are better than other teams, when nothing has been proven on the field yet.

(05-20-2014 10:52 AM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  Here's the problem. THEY HAD THAT 4 YEAR STRETCH.

We haven't had 4 years like that, period. Forget a 4 year stretch, we haven't EVER had 4 single years like that.

THIS x 1000

Fine, cower in fear of the mighty Chips if you must.

You know, Army, Yale, Harvard, Minnesota, Cornell, and Dartmouth have all won multiple national titles. Perhaps we should stand in fear of them as well.

I don't care what happened back in 2007 any more than I care what happened in 1999 and 2000. Neither has any bearing on the here and now. What I'm seeing in the here and now is one program that is stock piling a boat load of talent and upgrading it's facilities, and another that is stock piling "hidden gems" and still can't manage to get rid of an eye sore in the endzone they call a locker room.

We can say we're stockpiling talent and polishing up the facilities all that we want, until that talent produces, it's vaporware and all on subjective. Right now we're a 1-11 program that lost to Nichols State. Nothing more.

When potential meets reality and delivers, then we'll have something worth crowing about, until then, not so much. I'll be the loudest, happiest supporter in the community if that happens. I'm really tiring of the bragging about "Peej, recruiting, fundraising, etc" when it has yet to show on the field. I can see saying, "good things are happening and we're really optimistic...", but instead we brag like it's already been achieved (A really, northern lower trait that is very unbecoming btw).

Newsflash. Not really, and even the biggest Peej polishers are giving him a hall pass on this year as well in terms of "W's". This is getting silly, if you expect a losing season, act like supporters of a program that.....expects a losing season.

Without reading too much into all this and reaching the level of Dip's incessant bashing of the chimps (deserved or not), I would take our recent recruiting classes over the chimps' any day of the week. Completely different levels of talent. Yes, I know coaching matters and yadda yadda yadda...just looking at the recruits alone, it's a clear-cut decision.

Same with our facilities...which brings up something I've been thinking about: I still can't believe they think their football facilities are better than Western's. Or any of their respective facilities. Or their campus. Or the city....we can debate athletics and academics until the end of time, but these guys can't honestly believe that crap. Truly delusional.

Still, let them. It's all subjective anyway, scUM fans think they are the same level as SEC.

(05-20-2014 10:19 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  That said, I think you are witnessing a team headed for the $hitter in two years. Their last two recruiting classes have been awful.

This.

(05-20-2014 12:40 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  Without reading too much into all this and reaching the level of Dip's incessant bashing of the chimps (deserved or not), I would take our recent recruiting classes over the chimps' any day of the week. Completely different levels of talent. Yes, I know coaching matters and yadda yadda yadda...just looking at the recruits alone, it's a clear-cut decision.

Same with our facilities...which brings up something I've been thinking about: I still can't believe they think their football facilities are better than Western's. Or any of their respective facilities. Or their campus. Or the city....we can debate athletics and academics until the end of time, but these guys can't honestly believe that crap. Truly delusional.

Sounds to me like we're in complete agreement. You don"t have to apologize for thinking the Slappies are dopes. Say it with pride and conviction.

(05-20-2014 11:19 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Fine, cower in fear of the mighty Chips if you must.

Dip, I am not in fear nor do I cower when it comes to Chips. But I won't brag or smack talk football with them until we have proven we are better on the field than they are.

Last year they were a bad team. They coughed up the ball 5 times, and still beat us, which says a lot about how bad we were. I think the word ESPN used was buffoonish. In our house, our rival gave us the ball five (one, two, three four, five) times and we still let them beat us.

I do not cower in fear of chimps, but I also lack confidence in our staff to brag about success. They need to earn respect on the field first.

(05-20-2014 05:13 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 12:40 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  Without reading too much into all this and reaching the level of Dip's incessant bashing of the chimps (deserved or not), I would take our recent recruiting classes over the chimps' any day of the week. Completely different levels of talent. Yes, I know coaching matters and yadda yadda yadda...just looking at the recruits alone, it's a clear-cut decision.

Same with our facilities...which brings up something I've been thinking about: I still can't believe they think their football facilities are better than Western's. Or any of their respective facilities. Or their campus. Or the city....we can debate athletics and academics until the end of time, but these guys can't honestly believe that crap. Truly delusional.

Sounds to me like we're in complete agreement. You don"t have to apologize for thinking the Slappies are dopes. Say it with pride and conviction.

Dip we had a red shirt freshman in at qb who was last on the depth chart coming into fall last yr, the oline was patchwork at best our starting rb was playing injured we threw three picks and lost two fumbles and still won. I think cmu makes it two in a row this yr. I have been quite critical of enos recruiting as of late however he has definitely gone after more sought out players this yr and appears to be in good shape for a couple other quality players. Enos is no guru of coaching I am still skeptical one of two things willl happen we either kick ass and he is poached by another school or we remain .500 and heeke fires him. Either way things looking good in mt p!

PJ=Ron Zook until he wins.

I will be there every week watching and praying for improvement. You are what your record is as a coach. I am never going to be a PJ fan but if he does half of what he said he was going to do, I will give him due credit. Until then 1-11 and counting.

(05-20-2014 06:40 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  PJ=Ron Zook until he wins.

I will be there every week watching and praying for improvement. You are what your record is as a coach. I am never going to be a PJ fan but if he does half of what he said he was going to do, I will give him due credit. Until then 1-11 and counting.

This.

I am not bagging on pj either it is just part of the job. He will move on or up based on winning or losing.

(05-20-2014 11:19 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Fine, cower in fear of the mighty Chips if you must.

You know, Army, Yale, Harvard, Minnesota, Cornell, and Dartmouth have all won multiple national titles. Perhaps we should stand in fear of them as well.

I don't care what happened back in 2007 any more than I care what happened in 1999 and 2000. Neither has any bearing on the here and now. What I'm seeing in the here and now is one program that is stock piling a boat load of talent and upgrading it's facilities, and another that is stock piling "hidden gems" and still can't manage to get rid of an eye sore in the endzone they call a locker room.

lol

This one continues on with his mindless prattling about recruiting, when an example of just how important COACHING - not recruiting - really is can be found within the same state CMU and WMU play in. Tell me, when was the last time MSU had a class rated higher than scUM? Dantonio is a better coach than RR and Hoke; MSU is flourishing while scUM is an afterthought.

If facilities were the be-all-end-all, Nebraska would win a hell of a lot more than they do. Ever been to Waco? How are Baylor's facilities? Texas' classes are ALWAYS better than Baylor's, has that mattered on the field?

But by all means, carry on with your rambling about how we're circling the drain while the (completely imagined) glory days are right around the corner at WMU. After all, it's what we hear from the likes of you annually.

Thanks.

p.s. I explicitly forbid you from discussing another school's lack of history on the gridiron, considering your history of complete and total irrelevance. Actually, check that - feel free to run smack at your chief rival, EMU. Best of luck ending their recent dominance against you.

Sigh. Why do we insist on lobbing softballs into the wheelhouse of EMU and CMU types here?

Last I checked, this thread was about recruiting.

RECRUITING.

It's a fact that we are out-recruiting CMU, and have been for quite a while now.

Why can't we "talk smack" in terms of recruiting? Who is winning battles? Who is getting quality recruits? Sure as hell isn't cMU.

Why are the "regulars" seemingly not allowing us to celebrate small victories?

Small time.