(04-25-2014 09:26 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  Won a debate once in high school on this topic actually. I was anti Reagan.

Wat, what was the topic? We're all over the place in this thread.

(04-25-2014 09:28 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 09:26 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  Won a debate once in high school on this topic actually. I was anti Reagan.

Wat, what was the topic? We're all over the place in this thread.

Sorry I was a bit aloof in my phrasing.

It was something along the lines of: Ronald Reagan, stud or dud President

We were to argue whether he was as great a President as many argue or if his accomplishments were embellished and he did more harm than good.

(04-25-2014 09:31 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 09:28 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 09:26 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  Won a debate once in high school on this topic actually. I was anti Reagan.

Wat, what was the topic? We're all over the place in this thread.

Sorry I was a bit aloof in my phrasing.

It was something along the lines of: Ronald Reagan, stud or dud President

We were to argue whether he was as great a President as many argue or if his accomplishments were embellished and he did more harm than good.

I have always had the view that Reagan was a great president, but he wasn't a particularly good one.

First things first. Rand did not say that Carter was better than Reagan. The thread title is a severe misrepresentation of the actual comments.

(04-25-2014 08:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:45 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:30 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Mother Jones?

Not another word about FOX.

Are you disputing the source rather than the facts?

How's this? Reagan had a cold war to win.

Carter had pretty much conceded.

I wouldn't say Carter conceded in the classical sense. By 1970 the USSR economically and militarily was in decline. Militarily there was a concern within the Pentagon that there would major budgets cuts once people realized the Cold War was 'all over but the crying'.

With various overestimates by the CIA such as the non existent 'missile gap' the USA grossly over matched the USSR. As such, I think Carter chose to let the Soviet Union naturally expire vice Regan whose military decisions were akin to choking the Reds out.

Carter was settling in with the USSR for the long term. Reagan accelerated their demise. There is no telling how long the Soviets could have limped along, repressing its people and bullying its neighbors in the meantime, and the peanut farmer wasn't doing diddly about it.

I don't know many people outside Moscow, Havana, Beijing, Pyongyang, and Berkley who miss them.

(04-25-2014 09:58 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 08:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:45 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:30 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Mother Jones?

Not another word about FOX.

Are you disputing the source rather than the facts?

How's this? Reagan had a cold war to win.

Carter had pretty much conceded.

I wouldn't say Carter conceded in the classical sense. By 1970 the USSR economically and militarily was in decline. Militarily there was a concern within the Pentagon that there would major budgets cuts once people realized the Cold War was 'all over but the crying'.

With various overestimates by the CIA such as the non existent 'missile gap' the USA grossly over matched the USSR. As such, I think Carter chose to let the Soviet Union naturally expire vice Regan whose military decisions were akin to choking the Reds out.

Carter was settling in with the USSR for the long term. Reagan accelerated their demise. There is no telling how long the Soviets could have limped along, repressing its people and bullying its neighbors in the meantime, and the peanut farmer wasn't doing diddly about it.

I don't know many people outside Moscow, Havana, Beijing, Pyongyang, and Berkley who miss them.

Funny how things come back around, with Russia rearing it's head now and all.

(04-25-2014 09:13 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 08:57 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 08:52 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 08:41 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  Silly thread is silly. Everybody knows Carter was the worst president ever, until Obama came along. And Reagan was one of the best. It's a bad taste for liberals so they look wherever they can for news to show different.

I would contend that Regan was a great President because his governance did not strictly adhere to Republican tenants.

When you're pissing off the liberal, you're doing something right. Reagan still does it even after his death.

But the question is why? He increased Affirmative Action allocations and passed the Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act as well as granted Amnesty for illegals. What's not to like?

Exactly. There is a reason why I and others like Reagan very much.

(04-25-2014 09:59 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Funny how things come back around, with Russia rearing it's head now and all.

Putin called the collapse of the Soviet Union the greatest disaster of the 20th century.

That comment alone should have set off alarm bells in Washington.

Romney was right.

Funny thing about Reagan being unelectable in today's Republican Party.

The same thing is true of Kennedy and the current Democrats.

(04-25-2014 10:16 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 09:13 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 08:57 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 08:52 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 08:41 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  Silly thread is silly. Everybody knows Carter was the worst president ever, until Obama came along. And Reagan was one of the best. It's a bad taste for liberals so they look wherever they can for news to show different.

I would contend that Regan was a great President because his governance did not strictly adhere to Republican tenants.

When you're pissing off the liberal, you're doing something right. Reagan still does it even after his death.

But the question is why? He increased Affirmative Action allocations and passed the Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act as well as granted Amnesty for illegals. What's not to like?

Exactly. There is a reason why I and others like Reagan very much.

Lol, right...

One of the greatest living myths - especially abroad - is that Reagan was some militaristic "cowboy." Yet, in how many conflicts and wars did the United States participate during his eight years?

We had a blink-and-you'd-miss-it conflict in Grenada and we dropped a few retaliation bombs on Qaddafi's neighborhood. Aside from that...?

He was tough on addressing the 'Evil Empire,' yet at the same time managed to avoid real bloodshed and flying bombs that other GOP and Dems (before and after him) engaged in.

(04-25-2014 10:46 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  One of the greatest living myths - especially abroad - is that Reagan was some militaristic "cowboy." Yet, in how many conflicts and wars did the United States participate during his eight years?

We had a blink-and-you'd-miss-it conflict in Grenada and we dropped a few retaliation bombs on Qaddafi's neighborhood. Aside from that...?

He was tough on addressing the 'Evil Empire,' yet at the same time managed to avoid real bloodshed and flying bombs that other GOP and Dems (before and after him) engaged in.

Good point.

I'll add that, while people still make fun of SDI, I know one guy who was a believer: Mikhail Gorbachev.

(04-25-2014 09:58 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-25-2014 08:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:45 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:30 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Mother Jones?

Not another word about FOX.

Are you disputing the source rather than the facts?

How's this? Reagan had a cold war to win.

Carter had pretty much conceded.

I wouldn't say Carter conceded in the classical sense. By 1970 the USSR economically and militarily was in decline. Militarily there was a concern within the Pentagon that there would major budgets cuts once people realized the Cold War was 'all over but the crying'.

With various overestimates by the CIA such as the non existent 'missile gap' the USA grossly over matched the USSR. As such, I think Carter chose to let the Soviet Union naturally expire vice Regan whose military decisions were akin to choking the Reds out.

Carter was settling in with the USSR for the long term. Reagan accelerated their demise. There is no telling how long the Soviets could have limped along, repressing its people and bullying its neighbors in the meantime, and the peanut farmer wasn't doing diddly about it.

I don't know many people outside Moscow, Havana, Beijing, Pyongyang, and Berkley who miss them.

Again, I agree with you. Though most Pentagon estimates didn't have the USSR making it into the 21th Century.

For a long time I've tried to figure out where Carter's military reticence stemmed from. Especially considering where he went to school and his particular branch of service.

Paul's point largely stands, but there are two key facts that it omits;

• Congress was in the midst of a forty year run of both houses in control of the Democrats
• The overall trend has been exponential growth, slowed only by recession, not by political leadership