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Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
http://msn.foxsports.com/college-basketb...tes-041514

The sensational media would have you believe that college athletes are going to get paid...hell even college athletes would have you believe it by finding a sympathetic judge regarding unionization.

In reality, what gets approved (so far) is more meals and snacks...and even for walk-on's....which of course makes sense.

I contend that as long as benefits are given (and the NCAA may actually have to deal with academic fraud benefit)...that the model will stay intact. The athletes have the nicest facilities at the school, more than adequate housing provided for them, academic help, and the best coaches money can buy.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2014 09:46 AM by HP-TBDPITL.)
04-16-2014 09:42 AM
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HartfordHusky Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
I actually pretty much agree. They can approve a lot of additional benefits for student athletes without ever coming close to actually paying them anything close to a salary. These benefits really do have a lot of value too. That needs to be kept in perspective as this debate plays out. It's not really a matter of neglect its a matter of whether or not even more should be done, and more should be done.
04-16-2014 09:47 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
What's going to likely end up happening is the P5 sabre rattles and threatens to leave and the rest of us concede enough to them and the system continues in relatively the same manner. The P5 essentially have the game rigged as it is, and while of course they'd rather keep more and more of the money and power they also have to toe the line of not pushing so far to get congress or lawyers involved and screwing things up for them. They'll end up getting some of the deregulation things they'd like, some rule changes that benefit them more than us, but we'll still be able to sell that we are still at the top level and didn't get "left behind."
04-16-2014 09:48 AM
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mac6115cd Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
Since most university's provide ~$40-50K intuition, room, board, bnooks and fees, athletes are well compensated for what they do.

Rather than pay them a slary, then charge them for what they used to get free plus taxes, FICA, etc. deductions, I'd like to see universities deposit a nominal amount in a holding account (like a 401k) to be used after graduation/separation.

"Employee" status opens a can of worms I'm sure the athletes will regret.
04-16-2014 09:53 AM
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wavefan12 Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
The NCAA might be the least progressive group in the history of American business, all they do is react. They make MLB look like Apple.
04-16-2014 10:08 AM
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MemTGRS Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
Congrats Pirates! You've finally forfeited your political strength that kept WVU and Dana Holgorsen malnourished.
04-16-2014 10:08 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 09:42 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  http://msn.foxsports.com/college-basketb...tes-041514

The sensational media would have you believe that college athletes are going to get paid...hell even college athletes would have you believe it by finding a sympathetic judge regarding unionization.

In reality, what gets approved (so far) is more meals and snacks...and even for walk-on's....which of course makes sense.

I contend that as long as benefits are given (and the NCAA may actually have to deal with academic fraud benefit)...that the model will stay intact. The athletes have the nicest facilities at the school, more than adequate housing provided for them, academic help, and the best coaches money can buy.

The governance issue has not yet been stettled. These rules are on a separate track. The NCAA is expecting to have a new comprehensive plan for NCAA D1 governance by this summer (the NCAA steering committee takes up the issue in a couple of weeks and is to come up with something that can hopefully be approved by August). The question is --what happens if the NCAA can't craft a plan that is acceptable to the P5 AND has the votes be ratified by the entire membership. That's where a new division or an outright split senatio starts to come into play.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2014 11:42 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-16-2014 10:08 AM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
Shabazz says "You're Welcome."
04-16-2014 10:13 AM
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wavefan12 Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 09:53 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Since most university's provide ~$40-50K intuition, room, board, bnooks and fees, athletes are well compensated for what they do.

Rather than pay them a slary, then charge them for what they used to get free plus taxes, FICA, etc. deductions, I'd like to see universities deposit a nominal amount in a holding account (like a 401k) to be used after graduation/separation.

"Employee" status opens a can of worms I'm sure the athletes will regret.

They are not "providing" tuition, room and board, they are waiving the sticker price. The cost to the school is minimal (other than facilities) Well compensated, it's a dam multi billion dollar industry. Then we hear people say that they cheer for the jersey not the player, well why pay any athlete as you can make the same argument for pro teams. Not to mention, if they cheer for the jersey than how come NCAA attendance plummets when big time schools suffer prolonged losing streaks. The players matter and the NCAA is either going to crack or the P5's are going to decide to do their own thing in the revenue sports. I believe Title IX is the biggest obstacle.
04-16-2014 10:14 AM
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Bambu Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:13 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  Shabazz says "You're Welcome."

More money for that new tattoo.
04-16-2014 10:21 AM
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:14 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 09:53 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Since most university's provide ~$40-50K intuition, room, board, bnooks and fees, athletes are well compensated for what they do.

Rather than pay them a slary, then charge them for what they used to get free plus taxes, FICA, etc. deductions, I'd like to see universities deposit a nominal amount in a holding account (like a 401k) to be used after graduation/separation.

"Employee" status opens a can of worms I'm sure the athletes will regret.

They are not "providing" tuition, room and board, they are waiving the sticker price. The cost to the school is minimal (other than facilities) Well compensated, it's a dam multi billion dollar industry. Then we hear people say that they cheer for the jersey not the player, well why pay any athlete as you can make the same argument for pro teams. Not to mention, if they cheer for the jersey than how come NCAA attendance plummets when big time schools suffer prolonged losing streaks. The players matter and the NCAA is either going to crack or the P5's are going to decide to do their own thing in the revenue sports. I believe Title IX is the biggest obstacle.

They make the argument that fans root for the jersey because it's true. The fans were there long before the TV cameras or the TV money. In fact, the cameras showed up because of the fans were there.....not the other way around. The schools are univerities first. They have alumni. That's the backbone of the fan base of these schools. If Johnny Football wasn't at A&M do you really think that nobody would buy A&M jerseys? Child please.....
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2014 10:30 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-16-2014 10:27 AM
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wavefan12 Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:27 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:14 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 09:53 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Since most university's provide ~$40-50K intuition, room, board, bnooks and fees, athletes are well compensated for what they do.

Rather than pay them a slary, then charge them for what they used to get free plus taxes, FICA, etc. deductions, I'd like to see universities deposit a nominal amount in a holding account (like a 401k) to be used after graduation/separation.

"Employee" status opens a can of worms I'm sure the athletes will regret.

They are not "providing" tuition, room and board, they are waiving the sticker price. The cost to the school is minimal (other than facilities) Well compensated, it's a dam multi billion dollar industry. Then we hear people say that they cheer for the jersey not the player, well why pay any athlete as you can make the same argument for pro teams. Not to mention, if they cheer for the jersey than how come NCAA attendance plummets when big time schools suffer prolonged losing streaks. The players matter and the NCAA is either going to crack or the P5's are going to decide to do their own thing in the revenue sports. I believe Title IX is the biggest obstacle.

They make the argument that fans root for the jersey because it's true. The fans were there long before the TV cameras or the TV money. In fact, the cameras showed up because of the fans were there.....not the other way around. The schools are univerities first. They have alumni. That's the backbone of the fan base of these schools. If Johnny Football wasn't at A&M do you really think that nobody would buy A&M jerseys? Child please.....

How is that any different than a pro sports team, you didn;t answer my question? If David Ortiz was not on the Red Sox, I am pretty sure a few people would show up to Fenway each night.

Manziel made A&M literally millions never mind the massive branding value and huge increase in applications, yet he gets shat on for signing autographs.

If they wanted to be student first than they wouldn't be accepting athletes that have no business being in college. They wouldn't be bleeding fans for every little extra dollar. They wouldn't be playing games almost every night of the week. It's a business and soon it will be time to pay the piper. The good old boys club is coming to an end and it will be painful (sadly) for many fans.
04-16-2014 10:34 AM
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
With scholarships including tuition, room, books, and board - I don't think there is any need to pander to these athletes. I went to bed hungry... PLEASE... the board is a MEAL PLAN and even if you live in an apartment off campus you can come eat something - most campuses have dining halls open late (or 24/7) or have 24 hour places you can use your card at. There is no reason - unless you spent your entire declining balance on video games or venti mocha lattes at Starbucks... then the problem is your wasteful and can't manage your money - not that you're not taken care of.

As a student and grad student - I worked unpaid internships with campus departments... I've PAID the school to take classes AND work for them. I made the school money too -- yet, I don't hear anyone talking about how researchers and assistants should be getting more from schools. We pay our way, take loans for living when things were tight - I'm leaving school in debt - having worked nearly fulltime for the UNC system now for 3 years - so I have no sympathy for players who get life on campus on a silver platter.
04-16-2014 10:43 AM
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:14 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 09:53 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Since most university's provide ~$40-50K intuition, room, board, bnooks and fees, athletes are well compensated for what they do.

Rather than pay them a slary, then charge them for what they used to get free plus taxes, FICA, etc. deductions, I'd like to see universities deposit a nominal amount in a holding account (like a 401k) to be used after graduation/separation.

"Employee" status opens a can of worms I'm sure the athletes will regret.

They are not "providing" tuition, room and board, they are waiving the sticker price. The cost to the school is minimal (other than facilities) Well compensated, it's a dam multi billion dollar industry. Then we hear people say that they cheer for the jersey not the player, well why pay any athlete as you can make the same argument for pro teams. Not to mention, if they cheer for the jersey than how come NCAA attendance plummets when big time schools suffer prolonged losing streaks. The players matter and the NCAA is either going to crack or the P5's are going to decide to do their own thing in the revenue sports. I believe Title IX is the biggest obstacle.
How about if the student/athlete doesn't like the way the system is set up they decide to showcase their skills in another arena. They have a choice to go to college and get an education for no money, that is earned thru their sweat equity, or they find another way to advance their lives other than college. Some of you folks act as if the student-athletes have a gun to their head forcing them to go to college. It is still the student-athlete choice how to proceed after high-school.
04-16-2014 10:47 AM
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wavefan12 Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:43 AM)IceJus10 Wrote:  With scholarships including tuition, room, books, and board - I don't think there is any need to pander to these athletes. I went to bed hungry... PLEASE... the board is a MEAL PLAN and even if you live in an apartment off campus you can come eat something - most campuses have dining halls open late (or 24/7) or have 24 hour places you can use your card at. There is no reason - unless you spent your entire declining balance on video games or venti mocha lattes at Starbucks... then the problem is your wasteful and can't manage your money - not that you're not taken care of.

As a student and grad student - I worked unpaid internships with campus departments... I've PAID the school to take classes AND work for them. I made the school money too -- yet, I don't hear anyone talking about how researchers and assistants should be getting more from schools. We pay our way, take loans for living when things were tight - I'm leaving school in debt - having worked nearly fulltime for the UNC system now for 3 years - so I have no sympathy for players who get life on campus on a silver platter.

Jesus freakin Christ, another person comparing their college experience to the experience of an athlete who plays an integral role in making the school millions and providing entertainment, brand and pride to fans/alums. One last time, you didn't help the school earn millions, so you get/deserve NOTHING!!! Come on people.
04-16-2014 10:49 AM
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wavefan12 Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:47 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:14 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 09:53 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Since most university's provide ~$40-50K intuition, room, board, bnooks and fees, athletes are well compensated for what they do.

Rather than pay them a slary, then charge them for what they used to get free plus taxes, FICA, etc. deductions, I'd like to see universities deposit a nominal amount in a holding account (like a 401k) to be used after graduation/separation.

"Employee" status opens a can of worms I'm sure the athletes will regret.

They are not "providing" tuition, room and board, they are waiving the sticker price. The cost to the school is minimal (other than facilities) Well compensated, it's a dam multi billion dollar industry. Then we hear people say that they cheer for the jersey not the player, well why pay any athlete as you can make the same argument for pro teams. Not to mention, if they cheer for the jersey than how come NCAA attendance plummets when big time schools suffer prolonged losing streaks. The players matter and the NCAA is either going to crack or the P5's are going to decide to do their own thing in the revenue sports. I believe Title IX is the biggest obstacle.
How about if the student/athlete doesn't like the way the system is set up they decide to showcase their skills in another arena. They have a choice to go to college and get an education for no money, that is earned thru their sweat equity, or they find another way to advance their lives other than college. Some of you folks act as if the student-athletes have a gun to their head forcing them to go to college. It is still the student-athlete choice how to proceed after high-school.

That's precisely the point, the NCAA is without a doubt the premier arena to showcase their skills and they use that against the kids. Spare me the D league or Euro league....or god forbid the Canadian FBall league.

When labor was being abused in the late 1800's they said the same thing......you don't like it than find somewhere else to work. The money/value vs the compensation is out of wack, it's really that simple. No other industry has such a disconnect between revenue and how their major employees are compensated or treated. No representation, no freedom to gain extra revenue, suspensions for a free big mac....it's totally unamerican.
04-16-2014 10:53 AM
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:49 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:43 AM)IceJus10 Wrote:  With scholarships including tuition, room, books, and board - I don't think there is any need to pander to these athletes. I went to bed hungry... PLEASE... the board is a MEAL PLAN and even if you live in an apartment off campus you can come eat something - most campuses have dining halls open late (or 24/7) or have 24 hour places you can use your card at. There is no reason - unless you spent your entire declining balance on video games or venti mocha lattes at Starbucks... then the problem is your wasteful and can't manage your money - not that you're not taken care of.

As a student and grad student - I worked unpaid internships with campus departments... I've PAID the school to take classes AND work for them. I made the school money too -- yet, I don't hear anyone talking about how researchers and assistants should be getting more from schools. We pay our way, take loans for living when things were tight - I'm leaving school in debt - having worked nearly fulltime for the UNC system now for 3 years - so I have no sympathy for players who get life on campus on a silver platter.

Jesus freakin Christ, another person comparing their college experience to the experience of an athlete who plays an integral role in making the school millions and providing entertainment, brand and pride to fans/alums. One last time, you didn't help the school earn millions, so you get/deserve NOTHING!!! Come on people.

One athlete making millions for the university? That's laughable. I'd like to see the P&L and balance sheet of a university which has seen a million dollar windfall from just one athlete.
04-16-2014 10:54 AM
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wavefan12 Offline
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:54 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:49 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:43 AM)IceJus10 Wrote:  With scholarships including tuition, room, books, and board - I don't think there is any need to pander to these athletes. I went to bed hungry... PLEASE... the board is a MEAL PLAN and even if you live in an apartment off campus you can come eat something - most campuses have dining halls open late (or 24/7) or have 24 hour places you can use your card at. There is no reason - unless you spent your entire declining balance on video games or venti mocha lattes at Starbucks... then the problem is your wasteful and can't manage your money - not that you're not taken care of.

As a student and grad student - I worked unpaid internships with campus departments... I've PAID the school to take classes AND work for them. I made the school money too -- yet, I don't hear anyone talking about how researchers and assistants should be getting more from schools. We pay our way, take loans for living when things were tight - I'm leaving school in debt - having worked nearly fulltime for the UNC system now for 3 years - so I have no sympathy for players who get life on campus on a silver platter.

Jesus freakin Christ, another person comparing their college experience to the experience of an athlete who plays an integral role in making the school millions and providing entertainment, brand and pride to fans/alums. One last time, you didn't help the school earn millions, so you get/deserve NOTHING!!! Come on people.

One athlete making millions for the university? That's laughable. I'd like to see the P&L and balance sheet of a university which has seen a million dollar windfall from just one athlete.

How about 10's or even 100's of million?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2012/...er-of-one/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/17798...40-million

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2013/jo...on-season/
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2014 11:04 AM by wavefan12.)
04-16-2014 11:03 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 10:34 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:27 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:14 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 09:53 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Since most university's provide ~$40-50K intuition, room, board, bnooks and fees, athletes are well compensated for what they do.

Rather than pay them a slary, then charge them for what they used to get free plus taxes, FICA, etc. deductions, I'd like to see universities deposit a nominal amount in a holding account (like a 401k) to be used after graduation/separation.

"Employee" status opens a can of worms I'm sure the athletes will regret.

They are not "providing" tuition, room and board, they are waiving the sticker price. The cost to the school is minimal (other than facilities) Well compensated, it's a dam multi billion dollar industry. Then we hear people say that they cheer for the jersey not the player, well why pay any athlete as you can make the same argument for pro teams. Not to mention, if they cheer for the jersey than how come NCAA attendance plummets when big time schools suffer prolonged losing streaks. The players matter and the NCAA is either going to crack or the P5's are going to decide to do their own thing in the revenue sports. I believe Title IX is the biggest obstacle.

They make the argument that fans root for the jersey because it's true. The fans were there long before the TV cameras or the TV money. In fact, the cameras showed up because of the fans were there.....not the other way around. The schools are univerities first. They have alumni. That's the backbone of the fan base of these schools. If Johnny Football wasn't at A&M do you really think that nobody would buy A&M jerseys? Child please.....

How is that any different than a pro sports team, you didn;t answer my question? If David Ortiz was not on the Red Sox, I am pretty sure a few people would show up to Fenway each night.

Manziel made A&M literally millions never mind the massive branding value and huge increase in applications, yet he gets shat on for signing autographs.

If they wanted to be student first than they wouldn't be accepting athletes that have no business being in college. They wouldn't be bleeding fans for every little extra dollar. They wouldn't be playing games almost every night of the week. It's a business and soon it will be time to pay the piper. The good old boys club is coming to an end and it will be painful (sadly) for many fans.

Yes, he sold jerseys with his name on it. What I am saying is A&M didn't need Manziels name to sell A&M jeseys. They sold A&M jerseys long before he got there and will sell them long after he leaves. If he played for LSU, not one Aggie would have a Manziel jersey. If he played at FIU, I imagine he would have sold very few jerseys because he wasn't playing in an Aggie or LSU uniform. Meanwhile, some nameless Aggie QB would be selling 100 times the number of jerseys that Manziel would have sold at FIU.
04-16-2014 11:09 AM
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RE: Wasn't this supposed to be a P5 separation? More food gets approved...
(04-16-2014 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:34 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:27 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:14 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 09:53 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Since most university's provide ~$40-50K intuition, room, board, bnooks and fees, athletes are well compensated for what they do.

Rather than pay them a slary, then charge them for what they used to get free plus taxes, FICA, etc. deductions, I'd like to see universities deposit a nominal amount in a holding account (like a 401k) to be used after graduation/separation.

"Employee" status opens a can of worms I'm sure the athletes will regret.

They are not "providing" tuition, room and board, they are waiving the sticker price. The cost to the school is minimal (other than facilities) Well compensated, it's a dam multi billion dollar industry. Then we hear people say that they cheer for the jersey not the player, well why pay any athlete as you can make the same argument for pro teams. Not to mention, if they cheer for the jersey than how come NCAA attendance plummets when big time schools suffer prolonged losing streaks. The players matter and the NCAA is either going to crack or the P5's are going to decide to do their own thing in the revenue sports. I believe Title IX is the biggest obstacle.

They make the argument that fans root for the jersey because it's true. The fans were there long before the TV cameras or the TV money. In fact, the cameras showed up because of the fans were there.....not the other way around. The schools are univerities first. They have alumni. That's the backbone of the fan base of these schools. If Johnny Football wasn't at A&M do you really think that nobody would buy A&M jerseys? Child please.....

How is that any different than a pro sports team, you didn;t answer my question? If David Ortiz was not on the Red Sox, I am pretty sure a few people would show up to Fenway each night.

Manziel made A&M literally millions never mind the massive branding value and huge increase in applications, yet he gets shat on for signing autographs.

If they wanted to be student first than they wouldn't be accepting athletes that have no business being in college. They wouldn't be bleeding fans for every little extra dollar. They wouldn't be playing games almost every night of the week. It's a business and soon it will be time to pay the piper. The good old boys club is coming to an end and it will be painful (sadly) for many fans.

Yes, he sold jerseys with his name on it. What I am saying is A&M didn't need Manziels name to sell A&M jeseys. They sold A&M jerseys long before he got there and will sell them long after he leaves. If he played for LSU, not one Aggie would have a Manziel jersey. If he played at FIU, I imagine he would have sold very few jerseys because he wasn't playing in an Aggie or LSU uniform. Meanwhile, some nameless Aggie QB would be selling 100 times the number of jerseys that Manziel would have sold at FIU.

Right and the Red Sox will sell plenty of jersey's for whomever replaces Ortiz at DH, so why pay any athlete more than the value of tuition, room, books etc, right? Not to mention, the big time college sports brands were built on the backs of the players who played there. If A&M ran out a bunch of FIU quality athletes....jersey sales, ticket sales, donations, applications would all drop and their brand would be severely impacted......I am a Tulane fan so I know how losing hurts your brand.
04-16-2014 11:15 AM
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