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Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 01:48 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 01:28 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 12:34 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 12:26 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:52 AM)slycat Wrote:  Yeah UL sucked for years and years. Now they had three good seasons and they are too good for the rest. Give me a break. Is CUSA really the step up you think it is?

Do some actual home work junior before you make such statements. UL football had a long stretch of bad years, but there were some very good seasons and conference championships as well. Given your programs record of zero bowls in the FBS, as mediocre as UL football as been its three more than TSTATE has today!

What's that word you're so fond of? Hypocrisy!

Harps on a two year old FBS program for having zero bowl appearances, Louisiana took 30+ years to get their first...

03-shhhh

And yet TSTATE has zero! I see no hypocrisy in that statement, but then again I'm not the one lecturing Cajun fans about wanting to get into C-USA when your fans and president did it almost daily. Sorry, that is called hypocrisy when you administration and fan base was guilty of doing the same things.

Louisiana had zero after two years in FBS as well(had zero after thirty years in FBS) so you're holding Texas State to a standard Louisiana didn't meet.

You're calling me a hypocrite for something other MT fans did(but that's par for the course coming from you) and again there is a big difference in talking about a move to a conference that is actively in expansion mode and talking about leaving when there's nowhere to go.

That's the really funny thing about you calling me a hypocrite(well that and the fact that you're holding me accountable for what other people said) but my contention is not with Cajun fans talking about getting out of the Sun Belt, it's talking about getting out when there's nowhere to go, that and the bad mouthing.

You're also suffering from a bit of revisionist history regarding Dr. McPhee, he was pretty disinterested in CUSA and mum on the subject until the fans got up in arms over hearing how he dropped the ball the first time around when UNT and FIU got their invite and then we were trying to keep it hush hush until after the 2012 football season concluded, it was until our hand was forced with the talk of exit fees that Dr. McPhee said much of anything, but hey, don't let facts stand in your way(you never have in the past).

No, I called you a hypocrite because you had the audacity to lecture a Cajun fan on campaigning for C-USA, when it is public knowledge that your administration and fans were guilty of the same actions up until the final minutes of the decision to invite MTU. That is the definition of hypocrisy unless you have written your own. Now if you will excuse me, I’ve had enough of your Napoleon Syndrome for the day!
03-27-2014 02:17 PM
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Tiguar Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 10:02 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:44 AM)Tiguar Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:29 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  From my perspective, I think Ark State and ULL are the glue/cement that is keeping the conference together. Actually, I think they drive the bus right now.

A ludicrous assertion. What keeps the conference together is "We really want FBS football"

If all this talk about realignment has illuminated anything for me, it's that the Sun Belt will never be in risk of ceasing to exist(with the exception of a possible merger at some point with someone) because there is no shortage of schools looking to keep/move up to FBS

I'm sure the same was said of the WAC at one point in the not so distant past. I don't think the SBC ceasing to exist is as far fetched as you imagine.

I doubt it happens, but things could look very different if another round of realignment starts at the top.
A little late reply, but the situations are not equivalent and cannot be viewed as such. The WAC lost schools because they had places to go. Play off money is capped and I highly doubt we will see the G5 conferences expand very far beyond 12. WAC died because schools had places to go and options for back-fill either went elsewhere, or were not interested.

Liberty, JMU, MSU, UMass possible schools for SOMEONE. If they aren't taken by the SBC, then the SBC also doesn't LOSE schools. If we do lose schools, then these schools aren't taken. You also have to take into account other possibilities that become an option as opposition to their addition gets called up. Lamar, SHSU, Jackson St, have opposition but if their opposition moves on, they can be discussed.

I'm not concerned now like I was a year ago.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 02:29 PM by Tiguar.)
03-27-2014 02:28 PM
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JoeJag Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
Phew! I'm smelling some sour, rotten grapes here.
03-27-2014 02:28 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 02:17 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 01:48 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 01:28 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 12:34 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 12:26 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  Do some actual home work junior before you make such statements. UL football had a long stretch of bad years, but there were some very good seasons and conference championships as well. Given your programs record of zero bowls in the FBS, as mediocre as UL football as been its three more than TSTATE has today!

What's that word you're so fond of? Hypocrisy!

Harps on a two year old FBS program for having zero bowl appearances, Louisiana took 30+ years to get their first...

03-shhhh

And yet TSTATE has zero! I see no hypocrisy in that statement, but then again I'm not the one lecturing Cajun fans about wanting to get into C-USA when your fans and president did it almost daily. Sorry, that is called hypocrisy when you administration and fan base was guilty of doing the same things.

Louisiana had zero after two years in FBS as well(had zero after thirty years in FBS) so you're holding Texas State to a standard Louisiana didn't meet.

You're calling me a hypocrite for something other MT fans did(but that's par for the course coming from you) and again there is a big difference in talking about a move to a conference that is actively in expansion mode and talking about leaving when there's nowhere to go.

That's the really funny thing about you calling me a hypocrite(well that and the fact that you're holding me accountable for what other people said) but my contention is not with Cajun fans talking about getting out of the Sun Belt, it's talking about getting out when there's nowhere to go, that and the bad mouthing.

You're also suffering from a bit of revisionist history regarding Dr. McPhee, he was pretty disinterested in CUSA and mum on the subject until the fans got up in arms over hearing how he dropped the ball the first time around when UNT and FIU got their invite and then we were trying to keep it hush hush until after the 2012 football season concluded, it was until our hand was forced with the talk of exit fees that Dr. McPhee said much of anything, but hey, don't let facts stand in your way(you never have in the past).

No, I called you a hypocrite because you had the audacity to lecture a Cajun fan on campaigning for C-USA, when it is public knowledge that your administration and fans were guilty of the same actions up until the final minutes of the decision to invite MTU. That is the definition of hypocrisy unless you have written your own. Now if you will excuse me, I’ve had enough of your Napoleon Syndrome for the day!

You have the side step and misdirection perfected don't you?

I was not campaigning to get out.

I don't have a problem with Cajun fans wanting to get out.

I'm not "lecturing" Cajun fans about anything, I'm pointing out to one singular Cajun fan who simply stated that you guys need to leave that presently there's nowhere to go.

I don't speak for any other MT fan, no other MT fan speaks for me.

Please enlighten me as to how my pointing out that there is no conference currently expanding makes me a hypocrite because of things other MT fans said when, by the way, the conference they were talking about leaving for was actively expanding.

Hypocrite?

[Image: you-keep-using-that-word1.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 02:32 PM by MTPiKapp.)
03-27-2014 02:31 PM
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GaSoEagle Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
I think the Sun Belt will be just fine. We would not have joined if we felt otherwise.
03-27-2014 02:33 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 02:28 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 10:02 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:44 AM)Tiguar Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:29 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  From my perspective, I think Ark State and ULL are the glue/cement that is keeping the conference together. Actually, I think they drive the bus right now.

A ludicrous assertion. What keeps the conference together is "We really want FBS football"

If all this talk about realignment has illuminated anything for me, it's that the Sun Belt will never be in risk of ceasing to exist(with the exception of a possible merger at some point with someone) because there is no shortage of schools looking to keep/move up to FBS

I'm sure the same was said of the WAC at one point in the not so distant past. I don't think the SBC ceasing to exist is as far fetched as you imagine.

I doubt it happens, but things could look very different if another round of realignment starts at the top.
A little late reply, but the situations are not equivalent and cannot be viewed as such. The WAC lost schools because they had places to go. Play off money is capped and I highly doubt we will see the G5 conferences expand very far beyond 12. WAC died because schools had places to go and options for back-fill either went elsewhere, or were not interested.

Liberty, JMU, MSU, UMass possible schools for SOMEONE. If they aren't taken by the SBC, then the SBC also doesn't LOSE schools. If we do lose schools, then these schools aren't taken. You also have to take into account other possibilities that become an option as opposition to their addition gets called up. Lamar, SHSU, Jackson St, have opposition but if their opposition moves on, they can be discussed.

I'm not concerned now like I was a year ago.

They definitely aren't equivalent, that doesn't mean there are no similarities. My only real point was that there is a doomsday scenario, albeit highly unlikely, that the SBC would be raided to the point that even the likes of Lamar, Sam Houston, JJacksonville State et al may look at the remaining members and say "as much as we want to be FBS, that conference may not be salvageable, the last thing a cash strapped program can afford is to make the move and see the conference they joined fall apart.

It would take a series of events that individually any one of them may not be highly unlikely, but admittedly all of them happening would be, but do you really think if the SBC were down to Troy, ULM, NMSU, Georgia Southern and App State(as well as UTA and UALR) that Missouri State, Lamar, SHSU, Jacksonville State or whomever wouldn't have serious doubts about joining?

Again it's definitely unlikely to play out that way, but the statement was made that the SBC will never be in danger of ceasing to exist and I was simply playing devil's advocate.
03-27-2014 02:48 PM
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Florida Red Wolf Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
[quote='GaSoEagle' pid='10605432' dateline='1395927832']
If we are only going to 12 it appears here are the 2 choices:

1. Bring UMass in as football only and add NMSU all sports.
or
2. Bring in an all sports eastern member. I would assume JMU is first on list and if not them I guess Liberty.

What should the conference do?
[/quot



Create a new conference and leave the SBC and Karl is choice #1. Doing Nothing is choice #2. I am amazed by those on this board who want to invite teams just so they can make more brackets.
03-27-2014 03:07 PM
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Tiguar Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 02:48 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  They definitely aren't equivalent, that doesn't mean there are no similarities. My only real point was that there is a doomsday scenario, albeit highly unlikely, that the SBC would be raided to the point that even the likes of Lamar, Sam Houston, JJacksonville State et al may look at the remaining members and say "as much as we want to be FBS, that conference may not be salvageable, the last thing a cash strapped program can afford is to make the move and see the conference they joined fall apart.

It would take a series of events that individually any one of them may not be highly unlikely, but admittedly all of them happening would be, but do you really think if the SBC were down to Troy, ULM, NMSU, Georgia Southern and App State(as well as UTA and UALR) that Missouri State, Lamar, SHSU, Jacksonville State or whomever wouldn't have serious doubts about joining?

Again it's definitely unlikely to play out that way, but the statement was made that the SBC will never be in danger of ceasing to exist and I was simply playing devil's advocate.
I can concede that "never" is a long time, and "never say always, and always avoid use of the word never" and modify my point to being we are no longer in imminent danger of extinction for the foreseeable future- however volatile "foreseeable" may be.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 03:13 PM by Tiguar.)
03-27-2014 03:12 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 01:13 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:46 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:08 AM)RaginCajun25 Wrote:  To elaborate....

Leaving the Sun Belt is the only way to continue having a "growth" with our athletics. Not bashing anyone, but this conference is made up of a bunch of start-up teams. We do have some quality adds in certain sports, but overall we are in the declining stage. For UL to continue on the current path of success (i.e. Facility Improvements, Athletics, Student Pop Growth) we need money. This conference does not give you that opportunity. We will always be dragging behind in RPI due to our conference strength, forcing to play money games because we have "no" TV deals. Our revenue sharing (I know it was voted on) isn't doing any favors to elite conference teams that have to cover expenses of other members. The commish of this league is by far the worst amongst all D1.

Sorry gents, but you can polish a turd all you want, NONE of us will prosper or continue to grow at this rate.

My #3 choice was basically a show or go type situation. Add quality or go find quality elsewhere.

You can't grow and prosper here?

I'm assuming I missed the updates when women's softball and baseball ceased being nationally relevant.

I don't recall a hoops non-conference run men's or women's that had you poised for an at-large that was dashed by league play pulling you down. In fact I recall slightly more than 12 months ago a Sun Belt garnered an at-large berth.

Was there an undefeated run through league play that left you out in the cold nationally that I missed.

Sorry. Load of bull.

Uniform patches don't improve teams. Might distract the fans for a little bit but UNLV became a prominent power in hoops in what was a dreadful Big West, Boise went to the BCS out of a league that has two teams in the bottom 10 of FBS (real bottom ten, not that made up ESPN thing).

Can the league do better? Hell yeah, revisiting the 2007 initiative and actually letting it work without out immediately caving when a few coaches complain would be a nice start.

I think you and he are talking about different views of growth. I’ve seen this discussion before when it comes to Astate fans and Cajun fans discussing the topic of growth and improving your brand. You stated as have others have from the Astate fandom just keep winning and things will work out. While that goes without saying, it’s a pretty narrow view of growth. I think it was you that also stated that we face a different environment in Louisiana because of the existence of four other FBS programs and a number of FCS programs, an important fact that Astate fans have not experienced in Arkansas. Fighting for recognition doesn’t just come with success on the field, but with conference affiliation and corporate dollars as well.

If there is a lesson we have learned from other SBC programs is that you cannot build a program on the backs of the student bodies and season ticket holders with fees alone, corporate investment is vital. Going out and selling your athletics to corporations that are not owned by UL graduates in Louisiana while playing in the Sun Belt, is a huge obstacle. Selling the Sun Belt Conference brand in this state while fighting for dollars against programs in C-USA, AAC and the SEC is a non- starter. It’s something that State fans will never fully grasp because you’re only FBS peer is Arkansas, located on the other side of the state. Corporate investment is vital and right now there just isn’t much interest to sink major money into a Sun Belt program. Of course UL could do a better job of selling itself, but it’s still a major obstacle in spite of our short comings in the fundraising department. While I agree success in athletics on the courts and fields is a major component to building an athletic brand, corporate investment is also vital in building facilities, increasing funding for students academics support, improving scheduling and attracting higher quality student athletes.

Winning is only part of the picture of growth. You cannot sustain growth without investment capital. So it does not go unnoticed that while we having successful runs in all our major sports with the exception of WBB, several local major corporations have told us we don’t see any value in spending money or tying their brand with a program in the Sun Belt Conference. You may not want to hear it, but it’s a huge obstacle we have to overcome in Louisiana.

Those major corporations are not giving because of the Sun Belt, that's just an excuse. If you want to believe it that's your problem. Who are they and what other schools do they give to?
If they liked Louisiana that much they would give, whether SBC or in SEC. If not, they do not want to.

Easy to blame a conference. Hard to justify it that much. We could all, even LSU and Alabama, find corporations that are not willing to give to them. You can always stop after the first door is slammed in your face. Some corporations will never give.
03-27-2014 03:12 PM
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ValleyBoy Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 02:48 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 02:28 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 10:02 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:44 AM)Tiguar Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:29 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  From my perspective, I think Ark State and ULL are the glue/cement that is keeping the conference together. Actually, I think they drive the bus right now.

A ludicrous assertion. What keeps the conference together is "We really want FBS football"

If all this talk about realignment has illuminated anything for me, it's that the Sun Belt will never be in risk of ceasing to exist(with the exception of a possible merger at some point with someone) because there is no shortage of schools looking to keep/move up to FBS

I'm sure the same was said of the WAC at one point in the not so distant past. I don't think the SBC ceasing to exist is as far fetched as you imagine.

I doubt it happens, but things could look very different if another round of realignment starts at the top.
A little late reply, but the situations are not equivalent and cannot be viewed as such. The WAC lost schools because they had places to go. Play off money is capped and I highly doubt we will see the G5 conferences expand very far beyond 12. WAC died because schools had places to go and options for back-fill either went elsewhere, or were not interested.

Liberty, JMU, MSU, UMass possible schools for SOMEONE. If they aren't taken by the SBC, then the SBC also doesn't LOSE schools. If we do lose schools, then these schools aren't taken. You also have to take into account other possibilities that become an option as opposition to their addition gets called up. Lamar, SHSU, Jackson St, have opposition but if their opposition moves on, they can be discussed.

I'm not concerned now like I was a year ago.

They definitely aren't equivalent, that doesn't mean there are no similarities. My only real point was that there is a doomsday scenario, albeit highly unlikely, that the SBC would be raided to the point that even the likes of Lamar, Sam Houston, JJacksonville State et al may look at the remaining members and say "as much as we want to be FBS, that conference may not be salvageable, the last thing a cash strapped program can afford is to make the move and see the conference they joined fall apart.

It would take a series of events that individually any one of them may not be highly unlikely, but admittedly all of them happening would be, but do you really think if the SBC were down to Troy, ULM, NMSU, Georgia Southern and App State(as well as UTA and UALR) that Missouri State, Lamar, SHSU, Jacksonville State or whomever wouldn't have serious doubts about joining?

Again it's definitely unlikely to play out that way, but the statement was made that the SBC will never be in danger of ceasing to exist and I was simply playing devil's advocate.

The difference in this picture you have painted and the downfall of the WAC is that all of the above teams will be no doubts about joining a conference with the best 3 teams left in the southeastern united states.

Georgia Southern, Troy and those Hillbilly Goat Lovers from AppSt will be the cream of the crop in southern football & we all know that the little dogs always want to run with the big dogs.04-rock
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 03:16 PM by ValleyBoy.)
03-27-2014 03:14 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #91
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 02:28 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 10:02 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:44 AM)Tiguar Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:29 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  From my perspective, I think Ark State and ULL are the glue/cement that is keeping the conference together. Actually, I think they drive the bus right now.

A ludicrous assertion. What keeps the conference together is "We really want FBS football"

If all this talk about realignment has illuminated anything for me, it's that the Sun Belt will never be in risk of ceasing to exist(with the exception of a possible merger at some point with someone) because there is no shortage of schools looking to keep/move up to FBS

I'm sure the same was said of the WAC at one point in the not so distant past. I don't think the SBC ceasing to exist is as far fetched as you imagine.

I doubt it happens, but things could look very different if another round of realignment starts at the top.
A little late reply, but the situations are not equivalent and cannot be viewed as such. The WAC lost schools because they had places to go. Play off money is capped and I highly doubt we will see the G5 conferences expand very far beyond 12. WAC died because schools had places to go and options for back-fill either went elsewhere, or were not interested.

Liberty, JMU, MSU, UMass possible schools for SOMEONE. If they aren't taken by the SBC, then the SBC also doesn't LOSE schools. If we do lose schools, then these schools aren't taken. You also have to take into account other possibilities that become an option as opposition to their addition gets called up. Lamar, SHSU, Jackson St, have opposition but if their opposition moves on, they can be discussed.

I'm not concerned now like I was a year ago.

The CFP changes the equation.

We can go to 12 at essentially zero cost and almost certainly come out ahead financially.

With our pittance of TV money if we were to add two all-sport football members after 12, they have to bring at least $2.4 million or $1.2 million each to the table to be revenue neutral. Putting us in exactly the same place we are at 12.

The AAC is the Holy Grail of G5 in the populated part of the United States and the reality is there are members of AAC that wouldn't increase our revenue by $1.2 million because their primary value was in being acceptable candidates to get to 12.

I don't think there is any pair in CUSA that would be a lock to bring in a combined $2.4 million in new revenue.

If CFP issues a strong indication that they won't accept a new conference as a signatory to the contract that in itself becomes a deterrent to someone doing a MWC to their current conference.

It is entirely possible we may have extended period of still waters until the CFP is expiring unless someone does what has never been done... negotiate a peaceful inter-conference realignment.
03-27-2014 03:18 PM
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Atlanta Trojan Offline
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Post: #92
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 11:17 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:08 AM)RaginCajun25 Wrote:  To elaborate....

Leaving the Sun Belt is the only way to continue having a "growth" with our athletics. Not bashing anyone, but this conference is made up of a bunch of start-up teams. We do have some quality adds in certain sports, but overall we are in the declining stage. For UL to continue on the current path of success (i.e. Facility Improvements, Athletics, Student Pop Growth) we need money. This conference does not give you that opportunity. We will always be dragging behind in RPI due to our conference strength, forcing to play money games because we have "no" TV deals. Our revenue sharing (I know it was voted on) isn't doing any favors to elite conference teams that have to cover expenses of other members. The commish of this league is by far the worst amongst all D1.

Sorry gents, but you can polish a turd all you want, NONE of us will prosper or continue to grow at this rate.

My #3 choice was basically a show or go type situation. Add quality or go find quality elsewhere.

To reiterate...

Southland?

Ya, up until 3 years ago they had never been to a bowl game. Yet they are now "too good" for this league.... What a bunch of baloney!!!

Look at my sig at the bottom. We still own the most SBC championships and bowls in this league. Come talk to me when you win 5 in a row and win the bubas cup.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 03:29 PM by Atlanta Trojan.)
03-27-2014 03:24 PM
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GaSoEagle Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
arkstfan has nailed it. The realignment is slowing and about to stop. No reason for the MAC or CUSA to expand beyond what they have now. Barring some kind of major upheaval among the P5 the 12th spot in the Sun Belt is the last seat at the table.
03-27-2014 03:26 PM
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #94
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 03:12 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 01:13 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:46 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:08 AM)RaginCajun25 Wrote:  To elaborate....

Leaving the Sun Belt is the only way to continue having a "growth" with our athletics. Not bashing anyone, but this conference is made up of a bunch of start-up teams. We do have some quality adds in certain sports, but overall we are in the declining stage. For UL to continue on the current path of success (i.e. Facility Improvements, Athletics, Student Pop Growth) we need money. This conference does not give you that opportunity. We will always be dragging behind in RPI due to our conference strength, forcing to play money games because we have "no" TV deals. Our revenue sharing (I know it was voted on) isn't doing any favors to elite conference teams that have to cover expenses of other members. The commish of this league is by far the worst amongst all D1.

Sorry gents, but you can polish a turd all you want, NONE of us will prosper or continue to grow at this rate.

My #3 choice was basically a show or go type situation. Add quality or go find quality elsewhere.

You can't grow and prosper here?

I'm assuming I missed the updates when women's softball and baseball ceased being nationally relevant.

I don't recall a hoops non-conference run men's or women's that had you poised for an at-large that was dashed by league play pulling you down. In fact I recall slightly more than 12 months ago a Sun Belt garnered an at-large berth.

Was there an undefeated run through league play that left you out in the cold nationally that I missed.

Sorry. Load of bull.

Uniform patches don't improve teams. Might distract the fans for a little bit but UNLV became a prominent power in hoops in what was a dreadful Big West, Boise went to the BCS out of a league that has two teams in the bottom 10 of FBS (real bottom ten, not that made up ESPN thing).

Can the league do better? Hell yeah, revisiting the 2007 initiative and actually letting it work without out immediately caving when a few coaches complain would be a nice start.

I think you and he are talking about different views of growth. I’ve seen this discussion before when it comes to Astate fans and Cajun fans discussing the topic of growth and improving your brand. You stated as have others have from the Astate fandom just keep winning and things will work out. While that goes without saying, it’s a pretty narrow view of growth. I think it was you that also stated that we face a different environment in Louisiana because of the existence of four other FBS programs and a number of FCS programs, an important fact that Astate fans have not experienced in Arkansas. Fighting for recognition doesn’t just come with success on the field, but with conference affiliation and corporate dollars as well.

If there is a lesson we have learned from other SBC programs is that you cannot build a program on the backs of the student bodies and season ticket holders with fees alone, corporate investment is vital. Going out and selling your athletics to corporations that are not owned by UL graduates in Louisiana while playing in the Sun Belt, is a huge obstacle. Selling the Sun Belt Conference brand in this state while fighting for dollars against programs in C-USA, AAC and the SEC is a non- starter. It’s something that State fans will never fully grasp because you’re only FBS peer is Arkansas, located on the other side of the state. Corporate investment is vital and right now there just isn’t much interest to sink major money into a Sun Belt program. Of course UL could do a better job of selling itself, but it’s still a major obstacle in spite of our short comings in the fundraising department. While I agree success in athletics on the courts and fields is a major component to building an athletic brand, corporate investment is also vital in building facilities, increasing funding for students academics support, improving scheduling and attracting higher quality student athletes.

Winning is only part of the picture of growth. You cannot sustain growth without investment capital. So it does not go unnoticed that while we having successful runs in all our major sports with the exception of WBB, several local major corporations have told us we don’t see any value in spending money or tying their brand with a program in the Sun Belt Conference. You may not want to hear it, but it’s a huge obstacle we have to overcome in Louisiana.

Those major corporations are not giving because of the Sun Belt, that's just an excuse. If you want to believe it that's your problem. Who are they and what other schools do they give to?
If they liked Louisiana that much they would give, whether SBC or in SEC. If not, they do not want to.

Easy to blame a conference. Hard to justify it that much. We could all, even LSU and Alabama, find corporations that are not willing to give to them. You can always stop after the first door is slammed in your face. Some corporations will never give.

I don't anyone is making any excuses, that is your view. I openly stated that UL's administration falls short when it comes to fundraising. In fact, they have failed up until this point to hire anyone qualified to fundraise for the Second Phase of the facility improvements.

In Louisiana, LSU will always get the majority of corporate money because the return of exposure on national television, commercials and billboards around the state. The Sun Belt offers no such national television exposure or commercial opportunities, something that clearly went over your head when posting your comments.

You are correct, some corporations will never give. And in some cases UL hasn't done a great job of selling its program, as I've stated. But I will take the word of several top corporations in the area that have stated explicitly that see no value in associating their brand with the Sun Belt Conference, over opinion.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 03:45 PM by CrazyCajun.)
03-27-2014 03:32 PM
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #95
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 03:24 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:17 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:08 AM)RaginCajun25 Wrote:  To elaborate....

Leaving the Sun Belt is the only way to continue having a "growth" with our athletics. Not bashing anyone, but this conference is made up of a bunch of start-up teams. We do have some quality adds in certain sports, but overall we are in the declining stage. For UL to continue on the current path of success (i.e. Facility Improvements, Athletics, Student Pop Growth) we need money. This conference does not give you that opportunity. We will always be dragging behind in RPI due to our conference strength, forcing to play money games because we have "no" TV deals. Our revenue sharing (I know it was voted on) isn't doing any favors to elite conference teams that have to cover expenses of other members. The commish of this league is by far the worst amongst all D1.

Sorry gents, but you can polish a turd all you want, NONE of us will prosper or continue to grow at this rate.

My #3 choice was basically a show or go type situation. Add quality or go find quality elsewhere.

To reiterate...

Southland?

Ya, up until 3 years ago they had never been to a bowl game. Yet they are now "too good" for this league.... What a bunch of baloney!!!

Look at my sig at the bottom. We still own the most SBC championships and bowls in this league. Come talk to me when you win 5 in a row and win the bubas cup.

An yet evey program that has joined this conference did so because they thought it led to better opportunity. Funny how many of those same fans forget that including Troy fans. As for championships, no one has said they've won more then Troy. But hey, if you feel left out of the conversation, go ahead bold your championships years on your signature!
03-27-2014 03:38 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #96
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 03:32 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 03:12 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 01:13 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:46 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:08 AM)RaginCajun25 Wrote:  To elaborate....

Leaving the Sun Belt is the only way to continue having a "growth" with our athletics. Not bashing anyone, but this conference is made up of a bunch of start-up teams. We do have some quality adds in certain sports, but overall we are in the declining stage. For UL to continue on the current path of success (i.e. Facility Improvements, Athletics, Student Pop Growth) we need money. This conference does not give you that opportunity. We will always be dragging behind in RPI due to our conference strength, forcing to play money games because we have "no" TV deals. Our revenue sharing (I know it was voted on) isn't doing any favors to elite conference teams that have to cover expenses of other members. The commish of this league is by far the worst amongst all D1.

Sorry gents, but you can polish a turd all you want, NONE of us will prosper or continue to grow at this rate.

My #3 choice was basically a show or go type situation. Add quality or go find quality elsewhere.

You can't grow and prosper here?

I'm assuming I missed the updates when women's softball and baseball ceased being nationally relevant.

I don't recall a hoops non-conference run men's or women's that had you poised for an at-large that was dashed by league play pulling you down. In fact I recall slightly more than 12 months ago a Sun Belt garnered an at-large berth.

Was there an undefeated run through league play that left you out in the cold nationally that I missed.

Sorry. Load of bull.

Uniform patches don't improve teams. Might distract the fans for a little bit but UNLV became a prominent power in hoops in what was a dreadful Big West, Boise went to the BCS out of a league that has two teams in the bottom 10 of FBS (real bottom ten, not that made up ESPN thing).

Can the league do better? Hell yeah, revisiting the 2007 initiative and actually letting it work without out immediately caving when a few coaches complain would be a nice start.

I think you and he are talking about different views of growth. I’ve seen this discussion before when it comes to Astate fans and Cajun fans discussing the topic of growth and improving your brand. You stated as have others have from the Astate fandom just keep winning and things will work out. While that goes without saying, it’s a pretty narrow view of growth. I think it was you that also stated that we face a different environment in Louisiana because of the existence of four other FBS programs and a number of FCS programs, an important fact that Astate fans have not experienced in Arkansas. Fighting for recognition doesn’t just come with success on the field, but with conference affiliation and corporate dollars as well.

If there is a lesson we have learned from other SBC programs is that you cannot build a program on the backs of the student bodies and season ticket holders with fees alone, corporate investment is vital. Going out and selling your athletics to corporations that are not owned by UL graduates in Louisiana while playing in the Sun Belt, is a huge obstacle. Selling the Sun Belt Conference brand in this state while fighting for dollars against programs in C-USA, AAC and the SEC is a non- starter. It’s something that State fans will never fully grasp because you’re only FBS peer is Arkansas, located on the other side of the state. Corporate investment is vital and right now there just isn’t much interest to sink major money into a Sun Belt program. Of course UL could do a better job of selling itself, but it’s still a major obstacle in spite of our short comings in the fundraising department. While I agree success in athletics on the courts and fields is a major component to building an athletic brand, corporate investment is also vital in building facilities, increasing funding for students academics support, improving scheduling and attracting higher quality student athletes.

Winning is only part of the picture of growth. You cannot sustain growth without investment capital. So it does not go unnoticed that while we having successful runs in all our major sports with the exception of WBB, several local major corporations have told us we don’t see any value in spending money or tying their brand with a program in the Sun Belt Conference. You may not want to hear it, but it’s a huge obstacle we have to overcome in Louisiana.

Those major corporations are not giving because of the Sun Belt, that's just an excuse. If you want to believe it that's your problem. Who are they and what other schools do they give to?
If they liked Louisiana that much they would give, whether SBC or in SEC. If not, they do not want to.

Easy to blame a conference. Hard to justify it that much. We could all, even LSU and Alabama, find corporations that are not willing to give to them. You can always stop after the first door is slammed in your face. Some corporations will never give.

I don't anyone is making any excuses, that is your view. I openly stated that UL's administration falls short when it comes to fundraising. In fact, they have failed up until this point to hire anyone qualified to fundraise for the Second Phase of the facility improvements.

In Louisiana, LSU will always get the majority of corporate money because the return of exposure on national television, commercials and billboards around the state. The Sun Belt offers no such national television exposure or commercial opportunities, something that clearly went over your head when posting your comments.

You are correct, some corporations will never give. And in some cases UL hasn't done a great job of selling its program, as I've stated. But I will take the word of several top corporations in the area that have stated explicitly that see no value in associating their brand with the Sun Belt Conference, over opinion.
So you are saying that it's not really the Sun Belt's fault, but Louisiana's fault for not being in the SEC, and for not hiring adequate fund raisers. OK. If you say so.
03-27-2014 04:00 PM
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #97
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 04:00 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 03:32 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 03:12 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 01:13 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 11:46 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  You can't grow and prosper here?

I'm assuming I missed the updates when women's softball and baseball ceased being nationally relevant.

I don't recall a hoops non-conference run men's or women's that had you poised for an at-large that was dashed by league play pulling you down. In fact I recall slightly more than 12 months ago a Sun Belt garnered an at-large berth.

Was there an undefeated run through league play that left you out in the cold nationally that I missed.

Sorry. Load of bull.

Uniform patches don't improve teams. Might distract the fans for a little bit but UNLV became a prominent power in hoops in what was a dreadful Big West, Boise went to the BCS out of a league that has two teams in the bottom 10 of FBS (real bottom ten, not that made up ESPN thing).

Can the league do better? Hell yeah, revisiting the 2007 initiative and actually letting it work without out immediately caving when a few coaches complain would be a nice start.

I think you and he are talking about different views of growth. I’ve seen this discussion before when it comes to Astate fans and Cajun fans discussing the topic of growth and improving your brand. You stated as have others have from the Astate fandom just keep winning and things will work out. While that goes without saying, it’s a pretty narrow view of growth. I think it was you that also stated that we face a different environment in Louisiana because of the existence of four other FBS programs and a number of FCS programs, an important fact that Astate fans have not experienced in Arkansas. Fighting for recognition doesn’t just come with success on the field, but with conference affiliation and corporate dollars as well.

If there is a lesson we have learned from other SBC programs is that you cannot build a program on the backs of the student bodies and season ticket holders with fees alone, corporate investment is vital. Going out and selling your athletics to corporations that are not owned by UL graduates in Louisiana while playing in the Sun Belt, is a huge obstacle. Selling the Sun Belt Conference brand in this state while fighting for dollars against programs in C-USA, AAC and the SEC is a non- starter. It’s something that State fans will never fully grasp because you’re only FBS peer is Arkansas, located on the other side of the state. Corporate investment is vital and right now there just isn’t much interest to sink major money into a Sun Belt program. Of course UL could do a better job of selling itself, but it’s still a major obstacle in spite of our short comings in the fundraising department. While I agree success in athletics on the courts and fields is a major component to building an athletic brand, corporate investment is also vital in building facilities, increasing funding for students academics support, improving scheduling and attracting higher quality student athletes.

Winning is only part of the picture of growth. You cannot sustain growth without investment capital. So it does not go unnoticed that while we having successful runs in all our major sports with the exception of WBB, several local major corporations have told us we don’t see any value in spending money or tying their brand with a program in the Sun Belt Conference. You may not want to hear it, but it’s a huge obstacle we have to overcome in Louisiana.

Those major corporations are not giving because of the Sun Belt, that's just an excuse. If you want to believe it that's your problem. Who are they and what other schools do they give to?
If they liked Louisiana that much they would give, whether SBC or in SEC. If not, they do not want to.

Easy to blame a conference. Hard to justify it that much. We could all, even LSU and Alabama, find corporations that are not willing to give to them. You can always stop after the first door is slammed in your face. Some corporations will never give.

I don't anyone is making any excuses, that is your view. I openly stated that UL's administration falls short when it comes to fundraising. In fact, they have failed up until this point to hire anyone qualified to fundraise for the Second Phase of the facility improvements.

In Louisiana, LSU will always get the majority of corporate money because the return of exposure on national television, commercials and billboards around the state. The Sun Belt offers no such national television exposure or commercial opportunities, something that clearly went over your head when posting your comments.

You are correct, some corporations will never give. And in some cases UL hasn't done a great job of selling its program, as I've stated. But I will take the word of several top corporations in the area that have stated explicitly that see no value in associating their brand with the Sun Belt Conference, over opinion.
So you are saying that it's not really the Sun Belt's fault, but Louisiana's fault for not being in the SEC, and for not hiring adequate fund raisers. OK. If you say so.

I'm saying you have a right to your opinion, clearly without fact. Thanks
03-27-2014 04:17 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 04:17 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  I'm saying you have a right to your opinion, clearly without fact. Thanks

Something you're very familiar with.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 07:14 PM by MTPiKapp.)
03-27-2014 04:23 PM
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #99
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 04:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 04:17 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  I'm saying you have a right to your opinion, clearly without fact. Thanks

Something your very familiar with.

Said Dexter the boy genius with the Napoleon Complex!
03-27-2014 05:51 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #100
RE: Here are the 2 choices-- how would you vote?
(03-27-2014 05:51 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 04:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 04:17 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  I'm saying you have a right to your opinion, clearly without fact. Thanks

Something your very familiar with.

Said Dexter the boy genius with the Napoleon Complex!

What happened to my:

(03-27-2014 02:17 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  Napoleon Syndrome

?

Though in either case being of average height(5'10")and a fan of a comparable at worst athletic program I'm not really sure how that applies to me, I'm guessing you just thought it sounded good...

Anyhow, I'm still trying to figure out how I'm a hypocrite for things other people said.
03-27-2014 06:19 PM
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