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Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 08:59 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  When did USA become a football powerhouse?

We haven't but we like to not have a schedule that prevents us from advancing even if we win.

The new FCS teams are welcome to prove us wrong by transitioning quickly. I hope you guys prove me wrong. What do you expect is the likely result of a division consisting of one established 6-6 FBS team, one newish 6-6 FBS team, a new FBS team that went 0-12 last year, a FCS team with a losing record last year, a FCS team that had a winning record last year, and a FCS team that has won 2 games over teams with winning records in FCS in the last 2 years?
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2014 09:10 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-13-2014 09:01 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 08:59 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  When did USA become a football powerhouse?

We are talking about a University whose 30 second TV spot for Academics spends a large part of it discussing the football program.
03-13-2014 09:17 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
You better get us next year bud.

I've forgotten more great moments from watching my team than you've had moments period.
03-13-2014 09:35 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 08:29 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The SBC will face immediate, and persistent, derision from our FBS peers.

I'd argue it is happening already regardless of Liberty's presence in the conference. You already get no respect in the polls, opinions, or coverage. Liberty nor any other FCS school will change that immediately.
03-13-2014 09:52 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 07:22 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  Let's just say that Liberty receives it's long coveted invite this spring and brings Olympic sports to the belt in the fall and football in 2015.

What immediate impact do you think it will make? Good or Bad

Because of the invite where do you see your school and the conference 5 or 10 years from now?

"Remember when we joined the SBC and then left? 03-lmfao Good times"
03-13-2014 09:55 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 09:55 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 07:22 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  Let's just say that Liberty receives it's long coveted invite this spring and brings Olympic sports to the belt in the fall and football in 2015.

What immediate impact do you think it will make? Good or Bad

Because of the invite where do you see your school and the conference 5 or 10 years from now?

"Remember when we joined the SBC and then left? 03-lmfao Good times"

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03-13-2014 10:10 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 08:04 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 07:22 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  Let's just say that Liberty receives it's long coveted invite this spring and brings Olympic sports to the belt in the fall and football in 2015.

What immediate impact do you think it will make? Good or Bad

Because of the invite where do you see your school and the conference 5 or 10 years from now?

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

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03-13-2014 10:12 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 08:26 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the barriers to creating a new conference are so high that I don't think it is plausible scenario. I think it would be almost as bad as going independent.

Not nearly as hard as you might think.

Know how Charlotte and USF got into C-USA?

The Metro had a $2 million exit penalty. Adjusted for inflation $3 million today.

Louisville, Tulane, and Southern Miss didn't want to pay that to UNCC, USF, Va.Tech so they cut a deal. UNCC and USF would get to join CUSA if they would join them in dissolving the conference.

I tell that to set the stage for this.

Let's say that vote goes down 9-2 and AState and Louisiana are the two. If they were walking would ULM, UALR, Texas State, and UTA look at them and say "well bye" or would they start listening to an idea to walk? What about NMSU? USA probably casts their lot with them more than likely Troy. With no place to go and little chance of being able to replace the teams, EVERYONE wants to go, just not everyone is likely to have a slot. This is why a vote isn't likely to go against BUT WHAT IF IT DOES?

Well you need 8 FBS schools to be an FBS league. You can start your own but it is a hassle and under the new rules is a mess dealing with the NCAA.

Solution?

Join an existing league.

You pick up the phone and call the Missouri Valley. That's not productive you call the Horizon. That's not productive you call the Summit. That's not productive you've still got the phone number for the A-Sun and WAC and both of them will say yes.

You probably get a no from the Valley because they are too divided public/private football/non-football and like what they have. Horizon probably gives a no as well.

But the Summit... they might say yes, especially if NDSU has FBS aspirations and Idaho actually becomes viable to join as a full member as does NMSU meaning only six Sun Belt full members have to jump.

Likewise the WAC already has NMSU and Idaho can reverse course on joining the Big Sky.

It can be done. Doesn't mean anyone WOULD do it, but the idea that the western schools can't break away is laughable and if the defection means you end up taking 9 of the full members, you vote dissolve the league and the leftovers are the ones searching for a home and trying to start a league.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2014 10:44 PM by arkstfan.)
03-13-2014 10:42 PM
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runamuck Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 08:58 PM)USACoN2012 Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 08:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 08:33 PM)USACoN2012 Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 08:29 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Football wise, USA would get shipped off to a sucky SBC East, where we would have 4 games where we should be a prohibitive favorite that would mean nothing to our fans and would crater our RPI.

Wut?

Subtract Texas State, ULL, ULM and Arkansas State from our football schedule. Replace them with FOUR FCS moveups. Watch our RPI drag, even when we win. And yes, RPI matters when other conferences look at us or when bowls look at us too.

And what wonders that will do for our attendance? What would you rather see? A game against ULL or Ark State or a game against a team coming in at 1-7 or 2-6?

Expansion for USA is a bad deal. Expansion with a team that isn't making the correct staffing choices would be even more of a bad deal for us.

See bolded text.

who is in charge of monitoring staffing at member institutions..
03-14-2014 05:10 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 10:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 08:26 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the barriers to creating a new conference are so high that I don't think it is plausible scenario. I think it would be almost as bad as going independent.

Not nearly as hard as you might think.

Know how Charlotte and USF got into C-USA?

The Metro had a $2 million exit penalty. Adjusted for inflation $3 million today.

Louisville, Tulane, and Southern Miss didn't want to pay that to UNCC, USF, Va.Tech so they cut a deal. UNCC and USF would get to join CUSA if they would join them in dissolving the conference.

I tell that to set the stage for this.

Let's say that vote goes down 9-2 and AState and Louisiana are the two. If they were walking would ULM, UALR, Texas State, and UTA look at them and say "well bye" or would they start listening to an idea to walk? What about NMSU? USA probably casts their lot with them more than likely Troy. With no place to go and little chance of being able to replace the teams, EVERYONE wants to go, just not everyone is likely to have a slot. This is why a vote isn't likely to go against BUT WHAT IF IT DOES?

Well you need 8 FBS schools to be an FBS league. You can start your own but it is a hassle and under the new rules is a mess dealing with the NCAA.

Solution?

Join an existing league.

You pick up the phone and call the Missouri Valley. That's not productive you call the Horizon. That's not productive you call the Summit. That's not productive you've still got the phone number for the A-Sun and WAC and both of them will say yes.

You probably get a no from the Valley because they are too divided public/private football/non-football and like what they have. Horizon probably gives a no as well.

But the Summit... they might say yes, especially if NDSU has FBS aspirations and Idaho actually becomes viable to join as a full member as does NMSU meaning only six Sun Belt full members have to jump.

Likewise the WAC already has NMSU and Idaho can reverse course on joining the Big Sky.

It can be done. Doesn't mean anyone WOULD do it, but the idea that the western schools can't break away is laughable and if the defection means you end up taking 9 of the full members, you vote dissolve the league and the leftovers are the ones searching for a home and trying to start a league.

Fortunately it will not come to this because I cannot imagine Liberty having 9 yes votes just so we can say "yeh! We have 12!". I am betting there are at least 3 nos in the West and at least one no in the East. If they do have 9 yes votes then there is some instant monetary advantage to 12 that I am missing that apparently negates logic.
03-14-2014 05:43 AM
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Post: #31
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 10:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 08:26 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the barriers to creating a new conference are so high that I don't think it is plausible scenario. I think it would be almost as bad as going independent.

Not nearly as hard as you might think.

Know how Charlotte and USF got into C-USA?

The Metro had a $2 million exit penalty. Adjusted for inflation $3 million today.

Louisville, Tulane, and Southern Miss didn't want to pay that to UNCC, USF, Va.Tech so they cut a deal. UNCC and USF would get to join CUSA if they would join them in dissolving the conference.

I tell that to set the stage for this.

Let's say that vote goes down 9-2 and AState and Louisiana are the two. If they were walking would ULM, UALR, Texas State, and UTA look at them and say "well bye" or would they start listening to an idea to walk? What about NMSU? USA probably casts their lot with them more than likely Troy. With no place to go and little chance of being able to replace the teams, EVERYONE wants to go, just not everyone is likely to have a slot. This is why a vote isn't likely to go against BUT WHAT IF IT DOES?

Well you need 8 FBS schools to be an FBS league. You can start your own but it is a hassle and under the new rules is a mess dealing with the NCAA.

Solution?

Join an existing league.

You pick up the phone and call the Missouri Valley. That's not productive you call the Horizon. That's not productive you call the Summit. That's not productive you've still got the phone number for the A-Sun and WAC and both of them will say yes.

You probably get a no from the Valley because they are too divided public/private football/non-football and like what they have. Horizon probably gives a no as well.

But the Summit... they might say yes, especially if NDSU has FBS aspirations and Idaho actually becomes viable to join as a full member as does NMSU meaning only six Sun Belt full members have to jump.

Likewise the WAC already has NMSU and Idaho can reverse course on joining the Big Sky.

It can be done. Doesn't mean anyone WOULD do it, but the idea that the western schools can't break away is laughable and if the defection means you end up taking 9 of the full members, you vote dissolve the league and the leftovers are the ones searching for a home and trying to start a league.
NCAA might not like it but would let it happen.
03-14-2014 07:08 AM
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Post: #32
Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
Thing is unless you are working with defectors from some other place a walk off is simply a block. When Ark left SWC they voted 6-2 to add Tulane and UT and TAMU said that gives us justification to leave. They voted again and added no one. No we don't have a TAMU or UT but two members walking is nearly as effective.


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03-14-2014 07:13 AM
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Crump1 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
If Liberty had the votes then I would welcome them in the conference and move on. They have some shortcomings for sure but they are not without positives.
03-14-2014 10:17 AM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 08:22 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  If that happened then it wouldn't surprise me if USA, ASU, and Louisiana worked together and put out feelers to a few teams in C-USA and the Sun Belt about creating a new league altogether. Teams like WKU, MTSU, LA Tech, USM, Texas State, Georgia State, and UAB among others would get a call.

Not saying this would happen, and I have no inside information, but a new league forming would not surprise me in the least. The lack of NCAA basketball units would hurt, so with conference buyouts and lack of income I'm not sure how this would happen without guaranteed TV dollars to cushion the blow.

So USA, ASU an UL are somehow going to be able to get WKU and MTSU to rejoin them? While also getting TX State and GA state to go along (that part I can see). THIS while also persuading LA Tech and UAB to leave CUSA to join them? And in a "new" conference that doesn't even exist right now?

HEY - while we are doing CRACK!!!!!!!!!
Why don't we go ahead and get UAB (No Thanks!) & LA Tech (YES) to come to the Sun Belt and we wont have to invite Liberty!
Heck - just get WKU and MTSU to come back and we would be set!
Even without LA Tech and UAB - WKU and MTSU might get JMU on board and we would be at a very strong 14!

This is fun. Hey - What if I win the Lottery?
03-14-2014 12:24 PM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-13-2014 07:22 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  Let's just say that Liberty receives it's long coveted invite this spring and brings Olympic sports to the belt in the fall and football in 2015.

What immediate impact do you think it will make? Good or Bad

Because of the invite where do you see your school and the conference 5 or 10 years from now?

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03-14-2014 12:29 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-14-2014 12:24 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 08:22 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  If that happened then it wouldn't surprise me if USA, ASU, and Louisiana worked together and put out feelers to a few teams in C-USA and the Sun Belt about creating a new league altogether. Teams like WKU, MTSU, LA Tech, USM, Texas State, Georgia State, and UAB among others would get a call.

Not saying this would happen, and I have no inside information, but a new league forming would not surprise me in the least. The lack of NCAA basketball units would hurt, so with conference buyouts and lack of income I'm not sure how this would happen without guaranteed TV dollars to cushion the blow.

So USA, ASU an UL are somehow going to be able to get WKU and MTSU to rejoin them? While also getting TX State and GA state to go along (that part I can see). THIS while also persuading LA Tech and UAB to leave CUSA to join them? And in a "new" conference that doesn't even exist right now?

HEY - while we are doing CRACK!!!!!!!!!
Why don't we go ahead and get UAB (No Thanks!) & LA Tech (YES) to come to the Sun Belt and we wont have to invite Liberty!
Heck - just get WKU and MTSU to come back and we would be set!
Even without LA Tech and UAB - WKU and MTSU might get JMU on board and we would be at a very strong 14!

This is fun. Hey - What if I win the Lottery?

A lot of those teams have a lot of history together and would make for a compact league. If tv got behind it then it's not as crazy as you might think.
03-14-2014 12:37 PM
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LUcanesfan Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
Starting a new conference is not as easy as some would think since it would require plenty of start-up money. Not many schools in the Sun Belt could afford that.

The only reason why the AAC was came together was because they had some money left from the departing Big East FB schools. Also, I believe the NCAA grandfathered the FB schools to keep the BE's auto-bid (for the last and final year of the auto-bid). I am not sure if this applied to the AAC's Olympic sports too.
03-14-2014 12:51 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-14-2014 12:51 PM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  Starting a new conference is not as easy as some would think since it would require plenty of start-up money. Not many schools in the Sun Belt could afford that.

The only reason why the AAC was came together was because they had some money left from the departing Big East FB schools. Also, I believe the NCAA grandfathered the FB schools to keep the BE's auto-bid (for the last and final year of the auto-bid). I am not sure if this applied to the AAC's Olympic sports too.

Joining an existing league does not require near the start up money.
03-14-2014 12:58 PM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
(03-14-2014 12:37 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(03-14-2014 12:24 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 08:22 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  If that happened then it wouldn't surprise me if USA, ASU, and Louisiana worked together and put out feelers to a few teams in C-USA and the Sun Belt about creating a new league altogether. Teams like WKU, MTSU, LA Tech, USM, Texas State, Georgia State, and UAB among others would get a call.

Not saying this would happen, and I have no inside information, but a new league forming would not surprise me in the least. The lack of NCAA basketball units would hurt, so with conference buyouts and lack of income I'm not sure how this would happen without guaranteed TV dollars to cushion the blow.

So USA, ASU an UL are somehow going to be able to get WKU and MTSU to rejoin them? While also getting TX State and GA state to go along (that part I can see). THIS while also persuading LA Tech and UAB to leave CUSA to join them? And in a "new" conference that doesn't even exist right now?

HEY - while we are doing CRACK!!!!!!!!!
Why don't we go ahead and get UAB (No Thanks!) & LA Tech (YES) to come to the Sun Belt and we wont have to invite Liberty!
Heck - just get WKU and MTSU to come back and we would be set!
Even without LA Tech and UAB - WKU and MTSU might get JMU on board and we would be at a very strong 14!

This is fun. Hey - What if I win the Lottery?

A lot of those teams have a lot of history together and would make for a compact league. If tv got behind it then it's not as crazy as you might think.

Yea, so much history that they bailed on you the first chance they got.
TV contracts and big money didn't magically appear when they were together the last time. Certainly not enough for them to stay together. Can't imagine forming a new conference with those teams and signing a better TV deal, bowl contracts etc. than CUSA and or the Sun Belt have or are going to be able to sign.

And in a dream where that happened, I suppose the remaining Belt and CUSA teams would unit and form a conference ("The USA Belt" lol) - with combined bowl tie ins, TV contracts or whatever. How does that put the ones who left both conferences any better off? Oh yea, they don't have to be in a conference with Liberty.
03-14-2014 12:59 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Hypothetical: What if Liberty is invited?
what would happen....
Absolutely nothing. Life will go on, games will be played, and fans will complain about the same thing they always complain about.

only some may boycott games and such just to spite LU.

Do I want them to join? not really, but they won't affect how my school is viewed just because they are in the same conference (just as long as the SBC doesn't make a trend of bringing in private schools, we just left that in the SOCON).
03-14-2014 03:22 PM
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