ya, but it also doesn't make any sense for some App fans to scream, FIRE COBB!! every time he makes a decision. I guess whats strange to me is I base my option of Cobb on his body of work and his leadership of the athletic dept, I could care fricken less if he is a jerk or a great guy, I just want him to improve and grow the product, which I feel he has done better than any other AD we have had, and I see positive things moving forward, now, has he made alot of mistakes, sure, but in my opinion, alot of the negativity towards Cobb seems to be based on personal feelings, and not based on his work, to alot of our fans he has become the "whipping boy" every time something doesn't go right.

70 seems you are in the minority on this board. Cobb certainly has room for improvement but like tdog said has done more good than bad.

Again the facts.

2004 we averaged 14K.

Spring of 2005 Cobb is hired and is the catalyst for changing the game times to 3:30 and bringing a tailgating atmosphere and improved communications to App Nation prior to the 2005 season. The result - 23,200 vs. a CCU in a year in which we were coming off of a 6-5 year and a loss to WCU. He does get the credit for that.

As to the communication of Jerry's non-renewed contract, that falls more on Jerry. Jerry was told 2012 would be his last year in early 2012. The athletic department honored Moore's wishes of not making it public. Then he forgets the conversation. Love the guy, but he (like many other greats) made a choice to make it ugly in the end. They would love nothing more than to bring him back and honor him for his accomplishments.

On to the secondary logo, you are in the minority based upon merchandise sales.

So which Yosef Tour event are you coming to?

(04-07-2014 08:26 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Since you seem to have to argue am sure you will come back with some nonsensical thing.

Why is it nonsensical? Because it goes against your OPINION? Or the opinion of a few? Why couldn't your opinion be nonsensical? Just asking.

Saint3333 Disagree with you on so much no point in going into it again.
You think your way of seeing things is the only way it can be. Fine.
Keep feeling that way.

(04-07-2014 08:26 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 09:17 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Let's review some facts:

AE was a senior in HS when App won the first title.

Before the first national title App averaged 23k per game and doubled Yosef Club donations. So what was the difference that year?

We haven't won a national title in 7 years yet Yosef donations are 25% higher than 2007 even during a down and now stagnant economy.

Cobb as I said has made mistakes and I'm not sure I agree with the extension given the change in leadership at chancellor.

You see, that is an objective discussion vs. hyperbole about 5th graders.

Did Cobb piss you off at an event?

I'll be at the Charlotte event this week, stop by and say hi.

Cobb has pissed off a lot of people. Using the old TV show Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader is actually too kind to some of the things he has done. We both know that changing football kickoffs to 3:30 was a major factor in increased attendance, then Armanti and the addition national championships took it to new highs. So if our attendance was high before why credit Cobb with it? Since you seem to have to argue am sure you will come back with some nonsensical thing. Moore hires his son, no football experience, and they pay the son more than any other assistant. Did Cobb act? No until long after. He tells Moore that he is gone, Moore wants another year, he gives it to him. Makes no comments or announcements for the next year, then when Moore acts surprised that he has just served his last year as football coach Cobb handles it very poorly, which makes the university look bad. Cobb approves a secondary Yosef image that was done away years before because is an exact embodiment of a Hollywood hillbilly. His response to my email, well look at the name of the school. There are many things that could be discussed, but to crow that Cobb is a great AD doesn't really make sense.

Do you really prefer Gorton's Fisherman Yosef to Old School Yosef? Not me, I'll take all the hillbilly remarks people want to throw my way regarding our logo, but please no fish stick captain! I'm really surprised they brought him back due to all the political correctness in our society these days. He's got a pipe in his mouth for Pete's sake! What does he smoke in that thing? I mean the tobacco farm is near extinction now days and Boone's located on the other side of the Mississippi from Colorado. Our Athletics program's got more gonads than I'd previously though with their switch in mascot logos. Like all things, money talks and they make more money selling Old School Yosef gear.

(04-07-2014 09:33 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Saint3333 Disagree with you on so much no point in going into it again.
You think your way of seeing things is the only way it can be. Fine.
Keep feeling that way.

Pot meet kettle.

The timeline of events back up my comments.

Our opinions differ, you can see it any way you feel like, but I will point out flaws in your posts to support my position. That makes for good debate.

On both Cobb and the logo I appear to be in the majority here, doesn't mean I'm right just means more of our fans feel the way I do.

(04-07-2014 09:33 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Saint3333 Disagree with you on so much no point in going into it again.
You think your way of seeing things is the only way it can be. Fine.
Keep feeling that way.

(04-06-2014 09:08 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  If you love the guy that's fine. He has done some good things. The ones that honestly look at things
know that Cobb didn't do most of that. For example, Armanti Edwards and 3 NC had more
influence on it than Cobb. People talk about not discussing it on this
board but some just will never let anything go. Fail to see how you
expect to change anyone's mind. You never do. A four year mistake in
basketball tops any contention of administrative foresight. Firing Moore and
then giving another year and handling it the way he did was another major mistake.
When it comes to that not so sure the fifth graders couldn't have made better decisions.

(04-07-2014 09:49 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(04-07-2014 09:33 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Saint3333 Disagree with you on so much no point in going into it again.
You think your way of seeing things is the only way it can be. Fine.
Keep feeling that way.

Pot meet kettle.

The timeline of events back up my comments.

Our opinions differ, you can see it any way you feel like, but I will point out flaws in your posts to support my position. That makes for good debate.

On both Cobb and the logo I appear to be in the majority here, doesn't mean I'm right just means more of our fans feel the way I do.

(04-07-2014 09:33 AM)appfan89 Wrote:  

(04-07-2014 08:26 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Since you seem to have to argue am sure you will come back with some nonsensical thing.

Why is it nonsensical? Because it goes against your OPINION? Or the opinion of a few? Why couldn't your opinion be nonsensical? Just asking.

Official CSNBBS warnings forthcoming...

(04-07-2014 08:26 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 09:17 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Let's review some facts:

AE was a senior in HS when App won the first title.

Before the first national title App averaged 23k per game and doubled Yosef Club donations. So what was the difference that year?

We haven't won a national title in 7 years yet Yosef donations are 25% higher than 2007 even during a down and now stagnant economy.

Cobb as I said has made mistakes and I'm not sure I agree with the extension given the change in leadership at chancellor.

You see, that is an objective discussion vs. hyperbole about 5th graders.

Did Cobb piss you off at an event?

I'll be at the Charlotte event this week, stop by and say hi.

Cobb has pissed off a lot of people. Using the old TV show Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader is actually too kind to some of the things he has done. We both know that changing football kickoffs to 3:30 was a major factor in increased attendance, then Armanti and the addition national championships took it to new highs. So if our attendance was high before why credit Cobb with it? Since you seem to have to argue am sure you will come back with some nonsensical thing. Moore hires his son, no football experience, and they pay the son more than any other assistant. Did Cobb act? No until long after. He tells Moore that he is gone, Moore wants another year, he gives it to him. Makes no comments or announcements for the next year, then when Moore acts surprised that he has just served his last year as football coach Cobb handles it very poorly, which makes the university look bad. Cobb approves a secondary Yosef image that was done away years before because is an exact embodiment of a Hollywood hillbilly. His response to my email, well look at the name of the school. There are many things that could be discussed, but to crow that Cobb is a great AD doesn't really make sense.

To continue to rant about the secondary logo doesn't really make sense. Sorry Cobb hurt your feelings.

The school brought back Corn Cob Piper Yosef because flags with the logo were popping up in Stadium Lot (the most expensive lot) as early as 2005 because someone was making and selling them due to the demand. I don't think I've ever seen a Gorton's Fisherman logo on a flag in stadium lot. The apparel shops on King Street also sold them as did AppFan.com before the school filed a trademark and started selling it themselves. They NEVER intended it to be a permanent thing, but just a two-year throwback deal. Then the wrestling coach put in on their secondary singlets, the baseball coach put it on his hats, the one-game-only football helmets with it sold out and more. CCP Yosef merch was flying off shelves and so the athletics office listened to the money and made it the secondary logo and retired Gorton's Fisherman.

Also, it's a FACT that after a 6-5 season losing to WCU with a coach that was very close to being fired, atendance went from 14K to 23K for the very first home game right after getting stomped by Kansas. The only change between seasons was Cobb (and the new unis, which was Cobb's doing). And it wasn't just because there was a new AD, it was because Cobb completely overhauled tailgating and made the 3:30 game time the norm.

(04-07-2014 02:43 PM)T-Dog Wrote:  The school brought back Corn Cob Piper Yosef because flags with the logo were popping up in Stadium Lot (the most expensive lot) as early as 2005 because someone was making and selling them due to the demand. I don't think I've ever seen a Gorton's Fisherman logo on a flag in stadium lot. The apparel shops on King Street also sold them as did AppFan.com before the school filed a trademark and started selling it themselves. They NEVER intended it to be a permanent thing, but just a two-year throwback deal. Then the wrestling coach put in on their secondary singlets, the baseball coach put it on his hats, the one-game-only football helmets with it sold out and more. CCP Yosef merch was flying off shelves and so the athletics office listened to the money and made it the secondary logo and retired Gorton's Fisherman.

Also, it's a FACT that after a 6-5 season losing to WCU with a coach that was very close to being fired, atendance went from 14K to 23K for the very first home game right after getting stomped by Kansas. The only change between seasons was Cobb (and the new unis, which was Cobb's doing). And it wasn't just because there was a new AD, it was because Cobb completely overhauled tailgating and made the 3:30 game time the norm.

had never thought of that, but now that you point it out, I see it.

(04-07-2014 09:17 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  70 seems you are in the minority on this board. Cobb certainly has room for improvement but like tdog said has done more good than bad.

Again the facts.

2004 we averaged 14K.

Spring of 2005 Cobb is hired and is the catalyst for changing the game times to 3:30 and bringing a tailgating atmosphere and improved communications to App Nation prior to the 2005 season. The result - 23,200 vs. a CCU in a year in which we were coming off of a 6-5 year and a loss to WCU. He does get the credit for that.

As to the communication of Jerry's non-renewed contract, that falls more on Jerry. Jerry was told 2012 would be his last year in early 2012. The athletic department honored Moore's wishes of not making it public. Then he forgets the conversation. Love the guy, but he (like many other greats) made a choice to make it ugly in the end. They would love nothing more than to bring him back and honor him for his accomplishments.

On to the secondary logo, you are in the minority based upon merchandise sales.

So which Yosef Tour event are you coming to?

Hate to burst your bubble but after Charlie Cobb's first season at App State our attendance was just 17,917 according to the NCAA. That doesn't sound any higher than what we had had.

I thought you were through with this, but if you'd like another round of facts.

Your numbers include three playoff games, the first of which was under 9k.

The home opener in 2005 drew 23,200 and the regular season was over 20k.

Bubble still in tact.

See you tomorrow at the Charlotte Yosef event?

17,917 in 2005
Playoff games always count.
Bubble still burst.

(04-08-2014 02:05 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  17,917 in 2005
Playoff games always count.
Bubble still burst.

In this instance you can't have an accurate comparison using the playoffs because we didn't go to the playoffs in 2004. So ~14k in 2004 compared to ~21K in 2005.

Aren't stats great you can use them to make any point you'd like.

However, when someone is making a comparison it works best by limiting the variables. Apples to apples some might say.

2004 6-5 season no playoffs, regular season attendance under 14k

2005 regular season attendance over 20k.

A 43+% increase before AE, before national titles, before Michigan win.

70 you aren't changing my mind and obviously you would prefer to use your metrics over mine, no problem.

I will give Cobb credit for the good he has done (football atmosphere, increased donations, facility upgrades), and I will stand beside you to criticize his mistakes (the Capel hire being the biggest).

You may be letting your personal feelings get in the way of objectively judging his time as our AD.

You really should make it out to Quail Hollow tomorrow, maybe you and Charlie can patch things up.

(04-06-2014 02:50 PM)moehler Wrote:  never understood some App fans hatred for Cobb, he has grown the athletics to a level it has never been before, yes, he has made some mistakes, ie: the men's basketball program, but during his tenure he has had more success than failures. Hell, compared to the last AD who did absolutely nothing his last 5 years because he was planning his retirement CC is a god send

Cobb had the good fortune of following someone who was put in the position by an administration intent on suppressing the athletics program. Any competent administrator would have looked like a genius following him. When Ken Peacock was handed the job of chancellor one of his mandates was to elevate the athletics program. Within 6 months Laney and Dribelbiss were gone. I was solidly in Charlie's court when he first arrived. Ken gave him the additional dollars to shore up some budgetary shortcomings and elevate the football program to top ten FCS standards. The reality is he did little more than to start operating the program in the manner it should have been. Charlie's handling of the Houston Fancher, Jason Capel and Jerry Moore situations have been PR nightmares. He has been less than honest in some of those situations.

I have been intimately involved with this program 35 years. As I like to tell people, I may not know much, but I know a lot of people who do. Things are not as wonderful as some would have you believe. Cobb and his kids (as they are called within the administration) have created quite a situations that are ripe for criticism.

(04-08-2014 02:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:50 PM)moehler Wrote:  never understood some App fans hatred for Cobb, he has grown the athletics to a level it has never been before, yes, he has made some mistakes, ie: the men's basketball program, but during his tenure he has had more success than failures. Hell, compared to the last AD who did absolutely nothing his last 5 years because he was planning his retirement CC is a god send

Cobb had the good fortune of following someone who was put in the position by an administration intent on suppressing the athletics program. Any competent administrator would have looked like a genius following him. When Ken Peacock was handed the job of chancellor one of his mandates was to elevate the athletics program. Within 6 months Laney and Dribelbiss were gone. I was solidly in Charlie's court when he first arrived. Ken gave him the additional dollars to shore up some budgetary shortcomings and elevate the football program to top ten FCS standards. The reality is he did little more than to start operating the program in the manner it should have been. Charlie's handling of the Houston Fancher, Jason Capel and Jerry Moore situations have been PR nightmares. He has been less than honest in some of those situations.

I have been intimately involved with this program 35 years. As I like to tell people, I may not know much, but I know a lot of people who do. Things are not as wonderful as some would have you believe. Cobb and his kids (as they are called within the administration) have created quite a situations that are ripe for criticism.

That is a very fair assessment of Cobb. He's certainly had some mistakes, primarily with basketball, but I don't know we could do much better than him either. No doubt having a supportive chancellor to Athletics such as Peacock was has been a huge, huge factor in the success Cobb has enjoyed. AppMan do you have any feelings/opinions on the new chancellor?