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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #1
Top 500: No. 1
I figure there are three reasons GTS hasn't booted me from this site yet.

3. I've always insisted that Georgia Tech won the NC in 1990
2. I donated money to the site early on
1. I posted an All-time Top 500 Classical Rock Songs Countdown.

That last one was fun, and the Loverboy thread got me looking back on it. That was 10 years ago, so time to do it again.

A lot has changed in 10 years, and I've made some serious changes to the list. But the general guidelines still apply:

I tried to list songs having a variety of styles within the genre, acknowledging the roots of rock: R&B, C&W, folk. Otherwise, the list would be songs that all sound the same.

I also favor songs that connect to the foundations of rock: youth, protest, etc.

I'm a fan of psychedelic, glam rock and similar sounds, so those gets a solid place throughout the list.

I'll throw in much more discussion as I post, that's part of the fun.

Anyway, the list is not the same as 10 years ago. There are at least a dozen new entries (one replaced a duplicate that aksme pointed out), and there are changes throughout, even to the Top 20, Top 10 and Top 5.

So, let's get started, all aboard...
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2014 03:28 PM by DrTorch.)
02-17-2014 01:23 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Top 500
500. Crazy Train, Ozzy Osbourne

It's really weird to grow up in an Evangelical Christian household, and now have Ozzy on the top list. I tend to think of Ozzy as heavy metal (distinctive from classical rock) but, this song was on the Megamind soundtrack (great movie) and in that awful, awful minivan commercial. What could be more mainstream than that?

Oh, and some of you think he should be higher on the list. Maybe, but I'm a dropout making my own rules! And to be honest, being #500 gets more attention than say, #376 or even #61. So I did him a favor.

Anyway, we've started...
02-17-2014 02:06 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Top 500
(02-17-2014 02:06 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  500. Crazy Train, Ozzy Osbourne

It's really weird to grow up in an Evangelical Christian household, and now have Ozzy on the top list. I tend to think of Ozzy as heavy metal (distinctive from classical rock) but, this song was on the Megamind soundtrack (great movie) and in that awful, awful minivan commercial. What could be more mainstream than that?

Oh, and some of you think he should be higher on the list. Maybe, but I'm a dropout making my own rules! And to be honest, being #500 gets more attention than say, #376 or even #61. So I did him a favor.

Anyway, we've started...

Great track and riff. I think The Osbourne's humanized him a little. I have a double cd of his greatest hits. It kind of surprised me how much I liked I hadn't already heard in some form.
02-17-2014 02:38 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Top 500
So the first set of 10: 491-500.

491 Pretty Woman -- Van Halen-- Can't help but wonder if Roy Orbison qualifies as classic rock. He was truly great.
492 Barracuda -- Heart
493 Killer Queen -- Queen-- First #1 song for Queen
494 Me and Julio -- Paul Simon
495 The One You Love -- Glenn Frey-- Is there any question why we have so many beta-orbiters these days. Classic rock is not a good guideline for romance. And to think the Beatles "Yesterday" is actually worse!
496 Take Me to the River -- Talking Heads
497 Heaven's on Fire -- Kiss-- I never liked Kiss, but seriously, why did it take so long for them to get into the Hof?
498 Your Wildest Dreams -- Moody Blues
499 I Wanna Hold Your Hand -- Beatles-- The Beatles chime in early w/ the song that ignited fandom from millions.
500 Crazy Train -- Ozzy Osbourne

Oh, and along the way there will be some jokes in the list. Just to keep it more interesting.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2014 05:28 PM by DrTorch.)
02-17-2014 04:44 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Top 500
I don't want to even try to think of 500 songs, let alone a top 500 out of who knows how many. But my first impression is that trying to pick 500 songs that could be appropriately labeled "all time" is going to make you reach on quite a few. And including Your Wildest Dreams, a song that made me think even when it was released that the old guys were pandering just to get one last payday, confirms my impression. On the other hand, if Take me to the River and Killer Queen are this far down your list, maybe you do have a lot of good stuff in there, handful of clunkers notwithstanding. 03-wink
02-17-2014 05:20 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Top 500
(02-17-2014 05:20 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  I don't want to even try to think of 500 songs, let alone a top 500 out of who knows how many. But my first impression is that trying to pick 500 songs that could be appropriately labeled "all time" is going to make you reach on quite a few. And including Your Wildest Dreams, a song that made me think even when it was released that the old guys were pandering just to get one last payday, confirms my impression. On the other hand, if Take me to the River and Killer Queen are this far down your list, maybe you do have a lot of good stuff in there, handful of clunkers notwithstanding. 03-wink

It was interesting at the beginning to see if I could come up w/ 500 songs. And try to get beyond the Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin and the Eagles.

I combed through the last list, and threw out quite a number. Maybe Wildest Dreams should have been axed (and maybe Glenn Frey) there were a few in the reject pile that I was surprised about, meaning there's some real depth.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2014 05:29 PM by DrTorch.)
02-17-2014 05:27 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Top 500
481 Baby You're a Rich Man -- Beatles
482 Be My Baby -- Eddie Money
483 Welcome to the Jungle -- Guns n Roses-- These guys definitely made a splash w/ their first album. But they never could finish well.
484 Thick as a Brick -- Jethro Tull-- My token gesture. I pretty much hate everything by Jethro Tull
485 Riptide -- Robert Palmer-- Vastly unappreciated entire album. Deserves a little airplay.
486 Touch Me -- The Doors
487 Dust in the Wind -- Kansas
488 Heat of the Moment -- Asia
489 Murder by Numbers -- Police
490 Communication Breakdown -- Led Zeppelin

You'll see a lot of '80s songs on here. At first I thought, "man this is biased toward the 80s". Then I thought "man I included a lot of 60s songs on here." Of course when you look, there are a lot of '70s songs.

In the end, I think there's a good balance, but I'll do an analysis. What I like about making my own list is that I go back to the 50s, as well as the 90s. It's broad.
02-17-2014 09:18 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Top 500
(02-17-2014 04:44 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  So the first set of 10: 491-500.

491 Pretty Woman -- Van Halen-- Can't help but wonder if Roy Orbison qualifies as classic rock. He was truly great.
492 Barracuda -- Heart
493 Killer Queen -- Queen-- First #1 song for Queen
494 Me and Julio -- Paul Simon
495 The One You Love -- Glenn Frey-- Is there any question why we have so many beta-orbiters these days. Classic rock is not a good guideline for romance. And to think the Beatles "Yesterday" is actually worse!
496 Take Me to the River -- Talking Heads
497 Heaven's on Fire -- Kiss-- I never liked Kiss, but seriously, why did it take so long for them to get into the Hof?
498 Your Wildest Dreams -- Moody Blues
499 I Wanna Hold Your Hand -- Beatles-- The Beatles chime in early w/ the song that ignited fandom from millions.
500 Crazy Train -- Ozzy Osbourne

Oh, and along the way there will be some jokes in the list. Just to keep it more interesting.

@ Pretty Woman
VH's cover kind of reinvigorated the song IMO.

@ Killer Queen
I like queen when the stray more rock that "folksy/experimental" with their sound. I never got into that song on the 3CD box set I have of theirs.

@ Me and Julio
I keep seeing that clip from his SNL gig with that track.

@ Kiss
--I could never see why they were so great. I liked Rock and Roll All Night and that was about it.

@ I Wanna Hold Your Hand
--Never got hugely into the Beatles but they did put out the hits for a long time.
02-17-2014 09:20 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Top 500 (481-490)
471 Sister Christian -- Night Ranger-- An oversight from the last list.
472 Suzie Q -- CCR-- I'm not a big CCR fan, but I can't get the plunky guitar strains of this song out of my head. It makes the cut.
473 Shock the Monkey -- Peter Gabriel
474 Misty Mountain Hop -- Led Zeppelin-- Look, I don't care what the lyric sheet says, if everyone who listens to the song hears "Whoopee Cat", then you sang whoopee cat
475 Not to Touch the Earth -- The Doors
476 I'm Just a Singer -- Moody Blues-- I'm not going to toss this one, but maybe this should have been the entry point for the Moody Blues
477 Space Oddity -- David Bowie
478 Celebrity Skin -- Hole-- 1998, newest release to make the list
479 You May Be Right -- Billy Joel
480 Wonderful Tonight -- Eric Clapton

Interesting discussions pop up right away for this set of ten. First, and most obviously is "Hole?" What's funny is that people will call it "alternative" rock, and while I think it's open to discussion about what genre it falls into, the one that it does NOT fall into is alternative. There is nothing alternative about the music. So, the guitar riff makes it rock, and the chippy little bridge chorus is nothing that hasn't been done by others on the list.

The bigger question, is how does alternative rock make the list at all? After all, what is it an alternative to? It's an alternative to the classical style. So by definition alternative rock is NOT classical rock. But hey, rock is all about being iconoclastic, so if you're a good enough alternative, you get added to the canon. Welcome home Mr. Gabriel and Mr. Bowie. We'll be seeing more of you.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2014 09:14 AM by DrTorch.)
02-18-2014 09:13 AM
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AngryAphid Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Top 500 (471-480)
(02-18-2014 09:13 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  471 Sister Christian -- Night Ranger-- An oversight from the last list.
472 Suzie Q -- CCR-- I'm not a big CCR fan, but I can't get the plunky guitar strains of this song out of my head. It makes the cut.
473 Shock the Monkey -- Peter Gabriel
474 Misty Mountain Hop -- Led Zeppelin-- Look, I don't care what the lyric sheet says, if everyone who listens to the song hears "Whoopee Cat", then you sang whoopee cat
475 Not to Touch the Earth -- The Doors
476 I'm Just a Singer -- Moody Blues-- I'm not going to toss this one, but maybe this should have been the entry point for the Moody Blues
477 Space Oddity -- David Bowie
478 Celebrity Skin -- Hole-- 1998, newest release to make the list
479 You May Be Right -- Billy Joel
480 Wonderful Tonight -- Eric Clapton

Interesting discussions pop up right away for this set of ten. First, and most obviously is "Hole?" What's funny is that people will call it "alternative" rock, and while I think it's open to discussion about what genre it falls into, the one that it does NOT fall into is alternative. There is nothing alternative about the music. So, the guitar riff makes it rock, and the chippy little bridge chorus is nothing that hasn't been done by others on the list.

The bigger question, is how does alternative rock make the list at all? After all, what is it an alternative to? It's an alternative to the classical style. So by definition alternative rock is NOT classical rock. But hey, rock is all about being iconoclastic, so if you're a good enough alternative, you get added to the canon. Welcome home Mr. Gabriel and Mr. Bowie. We'll be seeing more of you.

Likewise, Talking Heads Take Me to the River is on my list of top New wave songs.

Like artwork, music can be difficult to place in a specific genre.
02-18-2014 10:50 AM
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Post: #11
RE: Top 500 (471-480)
What makes something "classic" rock also? Is it an arbitrary date (10, 15, 20 years after release date does it become classic rock?) or is it a style of music? In the early 90s, basically anything before 1980 was considered "classic." Has that even changed? Grunge and the "alternative" movement started 25 years ago now but it seems strange to group Nirvana, Pearl Jam etc. with the Beatles and other early blues musicians. What about metal music? Metallica has probably directly inspired more modern day bands than anyone else in the last 30 years.

I do like this idea though, should be an interesting read.
02-18-2014 10:53 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Top 500 (471-480)
461 The Secrets that you Keep -- The Romantics
462 Us and Them -- Pink Floyd
463 Eye in the Sky -- Alan Parsons Project
464 Good Day Sunshine -- Beatles
465 Bad Medicine -- Bon Jovi-- Only song I like by them, but I do like it quite a bit.
466 She's Always a Woman -- Billy Joel
467 Can't Buy Me Love -- Beatles
468 Young Turks -- Rod Stewart
469 I Won't Back Down -- Tom Petty
470 Spirits in the Material World -- Police

You can see my affection for the album Revolver here. I did try to capture various styles put out by artists, lest it just be a list of songs that all sound like "You Give Love a Bad Name". #461 might get some push back, but waiting to see if it's meeting Brooks Owl's standards.
02-18-2014 02:52 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Top 500 (461-470)
(02-18-2014 02:52 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  461 The Secrets that you Keep -- The Romantics
462 Us and Them -- Pink Floyd
463 Eye in the Sky -- Alan Parsons Project
464 Good Day Sunshine -- Beatles
465 Bad Medicine -- Bon Jovi-- Only song I like by them, but I do like it quite a bit.
466 She's Always a Woman -- Billy Joel
467 Can't Buy Me Love -- Beatles
468 Young Turks -- Rod Stewart
469 I Won't Back Down -- Tom Petty
470 Spirits in the Material World -- Police

You can see my affection for the album Revolver here. I did try to capture various styles put out by artists, lest it just be a list of songs that all sound like "You Give Love a Bad Name". #461 might get some push back, but waiting to see if it's meeting Brooks Owl's standards.

@ Bon Jovi
-- Bad Medicine is your top Bon Jovi song? No love for Wanted Dead or Alive, I'll be There for You....

@ Tom Petty
--I hope some of his other tracks/hits will rank higher.
02-18-2014 03:35 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Top 500 (461-470)
(02-18-2014 02:52 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  461 The Secrets that you Keep -- The Romantics
462 Us and Them -- Pink Floyd
463 Eye in the Sky -- Alan Parsons Project
464 Good Day Sunshine -- Beatles
465 Bad Medicine -- Bon Jovi-- Only song I like by them, but I do like it quite a bit.
466 She's Always a Woman -- Billy Joel
467 Can't Buy Me Love -- Beatles
468 Young Turks -- Rod Stewart
469 I Won't Back Down -- Tom Petty
470 Spirits in the Material World -- Police

You can see my affection for the album Revolver here. I did try to capture various styles put out by artists, lest it just be a list of songs that all sound like "You Give Love a Bad Name". #461 might get some push back, but waiting to see if it's meeting Brooks Owl's standards.

Ha! My standards are crrrap![/scottish]

I think you mean "Talking in Your Sleep" but I was (and kinda still am) a big fan of that whole album. I don't have a problem with New Wave, and even some of the more pop-ish of that genre. My problem with Your Wildest Dreams was that it was a pretty good group (with some iconic record making on their resume) who I felt were making a cynical record. I imagine a scenario where they were watching a video from Bowie's Let's Dance:
"That's terrible!"
"Yep."
"We could do that a make a mint!"
"Yep."

And they did.

Moving on, I'm really impressed with the "depth" of this list if you can say you're a big fan of Revolver and have much of it in your final 50. The only thing that stands out in the last couple of installments is Billy Joel. I think of him as almost a crooner first and rock and roll second. Probably only a couple of his songs I'd put on this list and I don't think it'd be either of the two you've chosen so far. Just picking a nit though...
02-18-2014 05:24 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Top 500 (461-470)
451 Who Wants to Live Forever -- Queen
452 Cover Me -- Bruce Springsteen
453 Oye Como Va -- Santana
454 Find the Cost of Freedom -- C,S,N &Y
455 Urgent -- Foreigner
456 Ashes to Ashes -- David Bowie
457 Break on Through -- The Doors
458 All You Need is Love -- Beatles
459 Tush -- ZZ Top
460 In the City -- The Eagles

Moving on the questions continue. Is #451 really rock at all? More like a piano sonata. But, I'm gonna say that I love It's a Kind of Magic to work out to, and this piece works for that too. But, I could be convinced to put Gimme the Prize in its stead.

Brook's Owl anticipates the next question regarding what is classical rock: what's the difference between pop and rock? Technically rock is popular music, so it's a subset of pop. But why is Billy Joel, or even Elton John, considered rock, and yet the Go Gos aren't? The Go Gos made it through rough the rough LA music landscape for one reason: they rock!

There are some posters here who know a lot about music, maybe they can quantify what's rock v. pop.

[Image: pop-rocks1-e1294144874433.jpg]
02-19-2014 09:20 AM
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Post: #16
RE: Top 500 (451-460)
I thought In the City was a Walsh solo effort?

“Warriors come out to playyyyyyyy”
02-19-2014 10:05 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Top 500 (451-460)
(02-19-2014 10:05 AM)AngryAphid Wrote:  I thought In the City was a Walsh solo effort?

“Warriors come out to playyyyyyyy”

Good question

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=5211

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=20247
02-19-2014 11:26 AM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Top 500 (451-460)
(02-19-2014 09:20 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  451 Who Wants to Live Forever -- Queen
452 Cover Me -- Bruce Springsteen
453 Oye Como Va -- Santana
454 Find the Cost of Freedom -- C,S,N &Y
455 Urgent -- Foreigner
456 Ashes to Ashes -- David Bowie
457 Break on Through -- The Doors
458 All You Need is Love -- Beatles
459 Tush -- ZZ Top
460 In the City -- The Eagles

Moving on the questions continue. Is #451 really rock at all? More like a piano sonata. But, I'm gonna say that I love It's a Kind of Magic to work out to, and this piece works for that too. But, I could be convinced to put Gimme the Prize in its stead.

Brook's Owl anticipates the next question regarding what is classical rock: what's the difference between pop and rock? Technically rock is popular music, so it's a subset of pop. But why is Billy Joel, or even Elton John, considered rock, and yet the Go Gos aren't? The Go Gos made it through rough the rough LA music landscape for one reason: they rock!

There are some posters here who know a lot about music, maybe they can quantify what's rock v. pop.

[Image: pop-rocks1-e1294144874433.jpg]

@ Break on Through
--I really like that song.

@ ZZ Top, not doubting they can rock, but when I got a chance to listen to more of their songs...I ended up only liking their hits.
02-19-2014 02:51 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Top 500 (451-460)
(02-19-2014 09:20 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Moving on the questions continue. Is #451 really rock at all? More like a piano sonata...

Brook's Owl anticipates the next question regarding what is classical rock: what's the difference between pop and rock? Technically rock is popular music, so it's a subset of pop. But why is Billy Joel, or even Elton John, considered rock, and yet the Go Gos aren't? The Go Gos made it through rough the rough LA music landscape for one reason: they rock!

Yeah, in re-reading my point earlier it was not well thought out or articulated. It was just a poor way of saying I'm not a fan of much of BJ's work except a few songs. In fact, You May be Right is probably one of his more rocking songs. I think your question is appropriate but the problem with defining rock is that it gets so esoteric. You can't just say it's R&B based with electric guitars, etc. because it's diversified so much over the years. I wonder if, instead of "pop or rock" the distinction ought to be between "classic" and, well, not. I would be happy to stipulate that the Go Gos (and Devo and They Might Be Giants and a bunch of other what-the-heck-do-we-call-it bands) played rock but I think deciding whether one of their songs can be considered classic is where the important debate lies.

If I was the editor in chief of the Oxford Dictionary, my definition of classic would at least start with this:
1. Something that was widely distributed/played. You may find an old Ramones b-side to be brilliant but if nobody ever heard it, it can't be classic.
2. Reasonably well received by critics. Didn't have to be at time of release but there needs to be some standard by which it's judged to be of high quality.
3. Have remarkable traits. Maybe not remarkable in its entirety but has to have elements that you can point to that really stand out.
4. Can be listened to and enjoyed today. Doesn't mean it can't be a little dated but has to have something that still rings true.
5. Not sure how to describe this, but it needs to have heft/weight/gravitas. The musical equivalent of umami. The reason the Backstreet Boys will not be on this list.*

*ETA: And I think this is also what keeps the non-rock pop off the list.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2014 03:37 PM by Brookes Owl.)
02-19-2014 03:29 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Top 500 (451-460)
(02-19-2014 09:20 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  451 Who Wants to Live Forever -- Queen
452 Cover Me -- Bruce Springsteen
453 Oye Como Va -- Santana
454 Find the Cost of Freedom -- C,S,N &Y
455 Urgent -- Foreigner
456 Ashes to Ashes -- David Bowie
457 Break on Through -- The Doors
458 All You Need is Love -- Beatles
459 Tush -- ZZ Top
460 In the City -- The Eagles

Moving on the questions continue. Is #451 really rock at all? More like a piano sonata. But, I'm gonna say that I love It's a Kind of Magic to work out to, and this piece works for that too. But, I could be convinced to put Gimme the Prize in its stead.

In the City is my only quibble here. I'd put it much higher but I don't reflect the conventional wisdom of Eagles fans. I continue to be impressed by what looks like tremendous depth to this list. (On the other hand, if your Top 200 are full of Rick Astley, Twisted Sister and Culture Club, well, that will explain a lot...).
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2014 03:45 PM by Brookes Owl.)
02-19-2014 03:36 PM
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