Honest question here. The bar I'm thinking of is getting drafted to the NFL.

After following college recruiting avidly for about a decade I'm not much more cynical about class rankings and such. Classes can't be judged until so far after the fact that same year rankings are just about senseless.

:::stepping off soapbox:::

What I'm really looking for now tho are opinions on who was really the better recruiter. Personally, I think I fell for the party line that BK didn't really care much for recruiting and CBJ brought in higher ceiling kids and our future was brighter, talent wise, yada yada yada.

However, now I'm looking at the individual talents and it seems to that it's becoming increasingly clear that BK brought in some of the most talented kids that we've yet to be able to replace with CBJ's recruits.

BK's homeruns:
Pead
Wolfe
Kelce
Schaffer
Kay (i know, too early to say)
Binns (potentially a MD kid, can't remember)
O'Donnell
Adrien Robinson
John Hughes

CBJ's homers: (purely speculation for the most part on who will get drafted)
Silverberry Mouhon (?)
Shaq (?)
Greg Blair
Anthony McClung (?)
Eric Lefeld (added per suggestion)
Kenbrell Thompkins (added per suggestion)
Nick Temple (?) (added per suggestion)

If I'm missing anyone feel free to let me know. Just something I'm tossing around in my head. Curious to hear other opinions.

As I was saying, seems pretty clear to me that CBJ's recruits, while more highly rated, have failed to deliver the individual stars to power us. What's clear is he wasn't/ isn't the coach that BK is for UC. We've taken a step back.


(?) - for kids who have the talent, yet have yet to be drafted. Again, using the NFL as the ultimate bar.


mc

Collaros and George Winn. Both were excellent performers. Who gets credit for them? I think BK gets credit for Tony Pike's development, even if Pike was recruited by Dantonio. Pead may have been the best RB in UC history. Surprised he has had such a disappointing pro career with the Rams.

(02-13-2014 03:12 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  Collaros and George Winn. Both were excellent performers. Who gets credit for them? I think BK gets credit for Tony Pike's development, even if Pike was recruited by Dantonio. Pead may have been the best RB in UC history. Surprised he has had such a disappointing pro career with the Rams.

Yeah I'm also shocked that Pead hasn't done more in the NFL. I remember in college when he was a senior talking to one of my OSU friends who said that Pead would be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at OSU. Come draft day, Pead gets picked before any OSU guys.

He was really damn good.

I'd add Eric Lefeld to the list of "CBJ's guys" and who might get drafted.

Apparently his work ethic and inability to quit weed does not fit in with the Rams.

Im still shocked Kelly cant recruit Quarterbacks at ND

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JK was coming to UC regardless of who the coach was, so you can't give that one to Kelly.

(02-13-2014 04:12 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  JK was coming to UC regardless of who the coach was, so you can't give that one to Kelly.

Come on. That's not fair. He needed a scholly in order to play here.




mc

Shocked as everyone else by Pead's development. He's basically done w/the Rams. I hope it serves as a wake-up call. I hope/ think he'll get at least a camp invite elsewhere once they inevitably release him.



mc

Hard to believe Nick Temple and Kenbrell Thompkins didn't make that list. Temple deserves it if Kelly gets credit for Shaffer. And there are several guys it is way to early to discount who were CBJ recruits like Ehinger, Chris Moore, Ti'on Green. Even guys like Pace, Jones, Edwards, etc... It's way to early to say one is clearly better when a bunch of ones guys recruits are still only going to be redshirt sophomores or juniors next season.

(02-13-2014 03:51 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I'd add Eric Lefeld to the list of "CBJ's guys" and who might get drafted.

Actually Lefeld committed to UC when BK was still here. Per Scout he committed on 6/15/2009 (Kelly did not leave until December).

Austin Bujnoch was also a BK recruit. He might not get drafted but I think he'll likely end up in the NFL when it is all said and done.

Just off the top of my head I would add Walter Stewart for the BK column.

Interesting question. Butch definitely got higher rated players and players that had offers from a lot better programs. But BK was by far a better coach.

(02-14-2014 09:22 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Hard to believe Nick Temple and Kenbrell Thompkins didn't make that list. Temple deserves it if Kelly gets credit for Shaffer. And there are several guys it is way to early to discount who were CBJ recruits like Ehinger, Chris Moore, Ti'on Green. Even guys like Pace, Jones, Edwards, etc... It's way to early to say one is clearly better when a bunch of ones guys recruits are still only going to be redshirt sophomores or juniors next season.

Great additions. Thompkins is mos def an egregious admission on my behalf. My bad. Temple was a BK recruit, no? Also, keep in mind I'm using the NFL as the bar here.....so it's a given that it's still early for plenty of CBJ's kids.

Consider it an open/ editable list. I'm more interested in getting it right so we have a better perspective. So, totally open to suggestions.

I'll make the edits.



mc

i think the more interesting question is less about recruiting and more about development. Given the lack of P5 membership, Tuberville will be at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting (and yes i know the original question concerns Lyle vs. BK). That said, given the amount of regular turnover with the respective coaching staffs, i'd be curious to see if an anonymous survey can be done with players that bridged Lyle vs. BK. vs. Tubbs and how they felt about their respective development under each coach/staff. UC isn't a blue blood and lacks the P5 clout we had under the B.East (regardless of the national ribbing/ignorance about the conference when it came to football).

(02-14-2014 12:24 PM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 09:22 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Hard to believe Nick Temple and Kenbrell Thompkins didn't make that list. Temple deserves it if Kelly gets credit for Shaffer. And there are several guys it is way to early to discount who were CBJ recruits like Ehinger, Chris Moore, Ti'on Green. Even guys like Pace, Jones, Edwards, etc... It's way to early to say one is clearly better when a bunch of ones guys recruits are still only going to be redshirt sophomores or juniors next season.

Great additions. Thompkins is mos def an egregious admission on my behalf. My bad. Temple was a BK recruit, no? Also, keep in mind I'm using the NFL as the bar here.....so it's a given that it's still early for plenty of CBJ's kids.

Consider it an open/ editable list. I'm more interested in getting it right so we have a better perspective. So, totally open to suggestions.

I'll make the edits.



mc

I believe Temple was a Butch recruit and a part of his first full recruiting class.

(02-14-2014 12:25 PM)eroc Wrote:  i think the more interesting question is less about recruiting and more about development. Given the lack of P5 membership, Tuberville will be at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting (and yes i know the original question concerns Lyle vs. BK). That said, given the amount of regular turnover with the respective coaching staffs, i'd be curious to see if an anonymous survey can be done with players that bridged Lyle vs. BK. vs. Tubbs and how they felt about their respective development under each coach/staff. UC isn't a blue blood and lacks the P5 clout we had under the B.East (regardless of the national ribbing/ignorance about the conference when it came to football).

I was thinking that too. You have to give credit to both staffs for player development. While Kelly recruited some of those guys Butch and his staff did a nice job of developing them. Kelce, Robinson, Stewart, Wolfe, etc.. Same can be said about BK and his staff with some of Dantonio's recruits.

(02-13-2014 03:47 PM)dbernie41 Wrote:  

(02-13-2014 03:12 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  Collaros and George Winn. Both were excellent performers. Who gets credit for them? I think BK gets credit for Tony Pike's development, even if Pike was recruited by Dantonio. Pead may have been the best RB in UC history. Surprised he has had such a disappointing pro career with the Rams.

Yeah I'm also shocked that Pead hasn't done more in the NFL. I remember in college when he was a senior talking to one of my OSU friends who said that Pead would be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at OSU. Come draft day, Pead gets picked before any OSU guys.

He was really damn good.

LOL and tO$U fans wonder why the rest of the nation thinks they are dbags.....unreal

Perhaps, but he didn't get nearly as much out of the talent he acquired.

(02-15-2014 06:03 PM)DMT Wrote:  Perhaps, but he didn't get nearly as much out of the talent he acquired.

Interesting. It would appear he got more out of the talent acquired than any coach. He went on to achieve 2 of the best seasons in the history of the program. I'd say that's an impressive accomplishment that demonstrates his ability to develop talent

A talent that CBJ demonstrated as well I should also say.




mc