(10-14-2013 01:01 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 12:57 PM)Brian Reading Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 12:35 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Jury is still out.

The name hire got the 90 mil moving for the stadium upgrade. The guy is one hell of nice person. Not crazy about his offensive staff (yet).

His methods and philosophy are a 180 from what we are used to. And that is not necessarily a good thing in my opinion.

Way early...but if I had to pick right now with a gun to my head, my gut says this has a better chance of being a bad fit than a great hire. Time will tell.

I think once he gets his recruits in there that are designed to work around his scheme, you will definitely be more successful. It will just take some time.

I do too. In the next 2-3 years. With that said, in 3 years this conference is going to be deep and full of talent.

Now that is funny! You're kidding, right. This conference is a football dumpster fire and it will be worse next year. You are reading the scores each Saturday, right?

50% of UC fans wanted Jones fired last year. 95% of UC fans wanted Munchie benched. Now because Jones was animated he was a God.
Freaking hilarious. I think there is a Zig Ziglar session forthcoming.

Nobody wanted Jones fired to my knowledge. He botched the QB position. That was proven pretty clearly. He botched the job search and turned it into a 4 school soap opera that lasted seemingly forever. For that, he earned everyone's ire after the fact.

I tired of the corny tag lines. But I'd flat out kill to have his recruiting acumen, quality offensive coaching staff and energy on our sidelines right now. Three things I fear this program is currently lacking. That can change. But I see better than I hear.

The Tuberville era got off to a great start against Purdue in an old-fashioned shellacking. The uninspiring loss to Illinois was unexpectedly one-sided, and Cincy has looked very average in beating very bad Miami (OH) and Temple teams and losing inexplicably to USF. The schedule is weak until the Rutgers, Houston and Louisville end to the season, but right now we look capable of losing any game. The offense has seen too many penalties and our defense is untested in the secondary. Tuberville is playing lots of guys in order to see who performs but that has led to a loss of continuity and predictability as to who will be playing and getting used to playing with the same guys next to you.

(10-14-2013 09:19 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 04:39 PM)MrP3242 Wrote:  If we go 10 & 2 or 9 & 3. What will you say the? It's possible. MrP3242

I have said like three or four times already, I AM WILLING TO BE PROVEN WRONG.

If we go 10-2 or 9-3 I will be ecstatic. I don't think it's likely, but I would be ecstatic.

Honestly, I don't know what the heck happens. I have seen flashes of brilliance with this team that says 10-2 IS possible. I have also seen ineptitude that tells me that 6-6 is also possible. If any team has been "Jeckyll and Hyde" this season, it's UC. From pounding Purdue to being dominated at Illinois, to pounding FCS NW State to barely getting by Miami to being man-handled by USF to handling Temple... Hell, anything is possible. I honestly won't be surprised if UConn beats the crap out of UC on Saturday, I also wouldn't be surprised if we score 70 and win going away.

That's one of the things that, quite frankly, that I do not like about our coaching staff. If the team were consistently bad, I'd get it. If we were just over-matched and out-gunned, I'd get it. But so far this season there are times we look just lazy, sloppy, and apathetic. And that, I cannot stomach.

Lazy, sloppy and apathetic I haven't seen. The third string center and Abernathy and Williams not cutting the mustard I have seen. With the change in the line and giving Tion Green a shot at RB just might make us more consistent and keep Brandon Kay alive. Let's see how we do against UConn, Memphis and SMU, because then we play Rutgers, Houston, Louisville and all three of these teams are very decent teams. We should be 7 & 2 going into the Rutgers game. This could be a very interesting season.MrP3242
PS: The Coaching business is a crazy business, because you are working with 18 year old kids in a big time pressure win, win situation before 30,000+ critic's.

Hands on, Hands off, Talks to whoever or doesn't talk to, Big Personality, No personality, motivates, doesn't motivate, Rah, Rah's or doesn't Rah, Rah, Jumps up and down,or doesn't jump up and down, get's into people's face's or is calm and cool. I could go on and on, but none of this stuff matters. If a Coach teaches well and his team executes his system and wins. Then you have a good coach on your hands. Forget all the foo, foo adjectives. Coach Tuberville will do well just like Coach Jones did and Coach Kelly and Coach Dantonio. All four have different coaching styles and personalities. MrP3242

(10-14-2013 09:52 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  50% of UC fans wanted Jones fired last year. 95% of UC fans wanted Munchie benched. Now because Jones was animated he was a God.
Freaking hilarious. I think there is a Zig Ziglar session forthcoming.

Jones isn't a god... I have NO idea where you get that from. He was a guy...who did his job...who screwed us over as quickly as he could and as badly as he could.

Screw Butch.

(10-14-2013 10:22 PM)MrP3242 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:19 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 04:39 PM)MrP3242 Wrote:  If we go 10 & 2 or 9 & 3. What will you say the? It's possible. MrP3242

I have said like three or four times already, I AM WILLING TO BE PROVEN WRONG.

If we go 10-2 or 9-3 I will be ecstatic. I don't think it's likely, but I would be ecstatic.

Honestly, I don't know what the heck happens. I have seen flashes of brilliance with this team that says 10-2 IS possible. I have also seen ineptitude that tells me that 6-6 is also possible. If any team has been "Jeckyll and Hyde" this season, it's UC. From pounding Purdue to being dominated at Illinois, to pounding FCS NW State to barely getting by Miami to being man-handled by USF to handling Temple... Hell, anything is possible. I honestly won't be surprised if UConn beats the crap out of UC on Saturday, I also wouldn't be surprised if we score 70 and win going away.

That's one of the things that, quite frankly, that I do not like about our coaching staff. If the team were consistently bad, I'd get it. If we were just over-matched and out-gunned, I'd get it. But so far this season there are times we look just lazy, sloppy, and apathetic. And that, I cannot stomach.

Lazy, sloppy and apathetic I haven't seen. The third string center and Abernathy and Williams not cutting the mustard I have seen. With the change in the line and giving Tion Green a shot at RB just might make us more consistent and keep Brandon Kay alive. Let's see how we do against UConn, Memphis and SMU, because then we play Rutgers, Houston, Louisville and all three of these teams are very decent teams. We should be 7 & 2 going into the Rutgers game. This could be a very interesting season.MrP3242
PS: The Coaching business is a crazy business, because you are working with 18 year old kids in a big time pressure win, win situation before 30,000+ critic's.

How many penalties has UC committed?
How many turn-overs did we have against USF? (Here's a clue...they beat us without scoring a single offensive TD...)

The UC team I have seen looked like they were sleep-walking through the Illinois game, they showed no real urgency through 7/8 of the USF game and then in the end of the game they panicked, and the clock management has been...ahem...laughable (if I weren't screaming at the top of my lungs).

And all of the, in the end, comes down to the coaching staff to prepare, motivate, and manage the team.

(10-14-2013 02:58 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 12:35 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Jury is still out.

The name hire got the 90 mil moving for the stadium upgrade. The guy is one hell of nice person. Not crazy about his offensive staff (yet).

His methods and philosophy are a 180 from what we are used to. And that is not necessarily a good thing in my opinion.

Way early...but if I had to pick right now with a gun to my head, my gut says this has a better chance of being a bad fit than a great hire. Time will tell.

Has much has he changed the offensive and defensive playbooks? Has the changes been for the better or the worst?

Massive changes and the jury is still out. Very inconsistent results so far against teams we (in theory) should be better than, but if you take an honest look at the last 3.5 years, that is hardly new with Tuberville.

(10-14-2013 06:07 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 05:59 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  It usually takes 3 years to see the full impact of a coaching change. This year, you're seeing Butch Jones recruits try to play in a Coach TT system. Based on the schedule, I expect another 10 win season, including bowl win. We should not have lost to USF, but under the circumstances with the loss of Flick, I can understand it.

Coach TT will continue to improve what we see on the field and he may stay longer than 3 years.

You STILL see us winning 10 games this year? I don't. I hope you are right but man, I just don't see it. I thin, we are 7 or 8 wins tops. Still better than BJ's first year but the schedule is a lot worse this year than Jones' first season and also we have a lot more talent sooooooo....

Look, if we lose the next 6 games and go 4-8 again we'll compare schedules and talk about 2010. Until then, we are 4-2. A far, far cry from 4-8 the year after 12-0. 2010 was a disaster this season has not even come close to approaching.

"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

Except for a 3-year run at Auburn, Tubs is 101-75 as a head coach. That equates to 7.5 wins every 13 games. It's unreasonable to expect Tubs to do significantly better than that during his tenure at Cincy.

(10-15-2013 08:02 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Except for a 3-year run at Auburn, Tubs is 101-75 as a head coach. That equates to 7.5 wins every 13 games. It's unreasonable to expect Tubs to do significantly better than that during his tenure at Cincy.

Honestly, I think any coach with half a brain could coach Cincy's roster against this schedule and get more wins than that in most seasons. I expect TT will too.

He might average 8 wins per every 13 games. But lets not get crazy here. Since Sid Gillman, Cincy has only had 1 coach win at a better clip than that. At 59, to expect Tubs to start winning a lot more than 8 per 13 would go against personal history, not to mention school history.

(10-14-2013 04:24 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  I don't know what UC fans think of him but USF fans love him..on the opposing side.

STFU

I guess you also like the ex-UC assistant Weist?

(10-15-2013 09:00 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  He might average 8 wins per every 13 games. But lets not get crazy here. Since Sid Gillman, Cincy has only had 1 coach win at a better clip than that. At 59, to expect Tubs to start winning a lot more than 8 per 13 would go against personal history, not to mention school history.

Before he leaves I just want to see him smack another grad assistant on the head during a game. Pure gold and then his explanation later was classic.

(10-15-2013 09:00 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  He might average 8 wins per every 13 games. But lets not get crazy here. Since Sid Gillman, Cincy has only had 1 coach win at a better clip than that. At 59, to expect Tubs to start winning a lot more than 8 per 13 would go against personal history, not to mention school history.

Again it has nothing to do with the coach. The difference between UC football then and now between facilities, fan support, name recognition, recruiting, etc... is enormous. If we aren't winning more than that in this league, it will be considered a disappointment whether the coach is Tuberville, Bellicheck, or Kragthorpe.

Edit, I do see your overall point though and I'm not suggesting it should be over 10. I would put the number around 9 or 9.5 given the resources and given the conference. So we aren't worlds apart here.

He just completed is sixth game here, so I am hanging on to my patience. But, let's not kid ourselves, Illinois and USF were VERY BAD losses. Our offense's problems are understandable (understandable but not excusable) due to a first time OC. Hope the performance in the Temple game signaled that Eddie Gran is figuring it out. The loss vs. Illinois was far more shocking to me, because it was a complete defensive collapse, and the defensive coordinator is a solid, experienced guy in Art Kaufman. I am a bit worried again, since a nondescript team like Temple gashed our defense for most of the game.

Anyway, realistically I guess this stuff happens with new coaches. But I hate to use that excuse. Tuberville is a very experienced HC that should know how to avoid those transition pitfalls. I expected no less than 6-0 right now. But, if you think about it, even Brian Kelly had a bump in the road in year one (consecutive losses to doormat-to-middle teams Louisville and Pitt). I am not happy, but I am hanging in there, and won't quit on the guy after six games. If the losses to Ill and USF somehow mean running the table at the end, I will have forgotten about both losses (not likely, but if...).

Great point was made about Tuberville and the salesmanship. People with UC have complained that the home schedule is now crap, compared to years past. I guess having a "name" like Tuberville will sell tickets, if nothing else, and yes, was probably a big reason why the luxury boxes and club seats sold so well.

(10-15-2013 09:43 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  He just completed is sixth game here, so I am hanging on to my patience. But, let's not kid ourselves, Illinois and USF were VERY BAD losses. Our offense's problems are understandable (understandable but not excusable) due to a first time OC. Hope the performance in the Temple game signaled that Eddie Gran is figuring it out. The loss vs. Illinois was far more shocking to me, because it was a complete defensive collapse, and the defensive coordinator is a solid, experienced guy in Art Kaufman. I am a bit worried again, since a nondescript team like Temple gashed our defense for most of the game.

I really have to disagree with that. The freshman quarterback gashed our defense for the 1st half. He threw the ball very well and hit receivers even if they had decent coverage. I thought Kaufman did a great job adjusting at halftime and shutting them down completely in the 2nd half.

I'd be lying if I didn't say I was still worried about Gran. And Kay for that matter. He looked great Friday night, but its clear he is be affected by his injury and just trying to fight through it.

As far as Tubs overall, I think he will prove to be a good hire. He won't hit the BK level here, but he will win a lot here. I think if anyone expected him to come here and win 11 games in year one, they had unrealistic expectations. I think 9 or 10 wins would have been reasonable based on what we had. I believe you can fault him for the Illinois loss, but the USF game was very much on the players. They stumbled all over themselves on their way into a loss in that one. We gave up like 9 points when USF didn't start inside our half. This year, I'm betting we will be 8-4, with the possibility of 9-3 if we begin to come together as the year goes on.