Interesting article out in the sentinel yesterday. I am not one bit surprised. UCF and USF are located in two of the best cities in the state for available high paying jobs. I know from personal experience that living in Orlando makes it much easier to get internships WHILE an undergrad and those internships often lead to opportunities right out of college. If you couple that with the lower cost of education, the logistics of it all make it an uphill battle for UF and FSU long term. There are many companies that literally farm out students from UCF. Especially in engineering.

UCF Ranks High in State Bonus Funding Program

I've noticed in my field a lot of UF grads end up going to atlanta while UCF grads are taking all of the orlando jobs (and USF in tampa). 10 years ago UF grads were all over orlando and tampa. Big changes in the last 10 years.

(10-10-2013 08:31 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  I've noticed in my field a lot of UF grads end up going to atlanta while UCF grads are taking all of the orlando jobs (and USF in tampa). 10 years ago UF grads were all over orlando and tampa. Big changes in the last 10 years.

Tons of SEC grads go to Atlanta. It's like a magnet.

(10-10-2013 08:31 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  I've noticed in my field a lot of UF grads end up going to atlanta while UCF grads are taking all of the orlando jobs (and USF in tampa). 10 years ago UF grads were all over orlando and tampa. Big changes in the last 10 years.

Incidentally that hurts UF and FSU (fine by me). The salary data is from some state databases that only have info for those people employed in Florida. Pretty fair, if you ask me, since the job of UF isn't to train people for Atlanta's economy.

You know full well that system will be redone. No way the politicians in our state allow UCF and USF outperform UF in anything

this UCF grad is in Atlanta. I miss Orlando and Florida...but salaries suck in Florida..

(10-10-2013 12:20 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  You know full well that system will be redone. No way the politicians in our state allow UCF and USF outperform UF in anything

Unfortunately this is likely true my friend :/

(10-10-2013 12:20 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  You know full well that system will be redone. No way the politicians in our state allow UCF and USF outperform UF in anything

Possibly, but they can't get good data for out of state. And this is the brainchild of Sen. Don Gaetz who really doesn't give a crap about kowtowing to UF.

Seems that they're going to tweak how they measure "performance". Several on the budget and finance committee have called it flawed.

Some high paying jobs simply aren't in high enough quantity in Florida. UCF and USF are more regional universities whose graduates are more likely to remain in the Orlando and Tampa areas (like FIU grads in Miami).

Tuition at FSU ($6,767) and UF ($6,270) isn't much different than at UCF ($6,3117) and USF ($6,336).

UCF and USF getting ~$400,000 more than FSU is a drop in the bucket. It's not enough to have any substantial impact.

Keep in mind FSU and UF will each be getting $15M/year on top of legislative appropriations that no other state universities will be receiving.

FSU seems to be doing well creating its own "farm" system and internships, which is indicated by General Motors hiring 39 FSU grads in the last year alone.

(10-10-2013 04:27 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Seems that they're going to tweak how they measure "performance". Several on the budget and finance committee have called it flawed.

Some high paying jobs simply aren't in high enough quantity in Florida. UCF and USF are more regional universities whose graduates are more likely to remain in the Orlando and Tampa areas (like FIU grads in Miami).

Tuition at FSU ($6,767) and UF ($6,270) isn't much different than at UCF ($6,3117) and USF ($6,336).

UCF and USF getting ~$400,000 more than FSU is a drop in the bucket. It's not enough to have any substantial impact.

Keep in mind FSU and UF will each be getting $15M/year on top of legislative appropriations that no other state universities will be receiving.

FSU seems to be doing well creating its own "farm" system and internships, which is indicated by General Motors hiring 39 FSU grads in the last year alone.

You mean that FSU and UF are going to be getting more than the other state universities based on legislation pushed through Tallahassee by UF and FSU cronies that was specially written with performance criteria that will be impossible for USF and UCF to meet (essentially gerrymandered if you will) even though objective criteria might state otherwise. Yes, there is that.

Absolutely no reason for UF to have a med, dental, pharm school in Gainesville. I can understand Tallahassee, they're in the panhandle.

And here it is

http://today.ucf.edu/nations-top-innovat...-michigan/

(10-10-2013 06:41 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  And here it is

http://today.ucf.edu/nations-top-innovat...-michigan/

Just an FYI, conference mates Memphis and Cincy are also on this list. Congrats to both.

http://www.aplu.org/page.aspx?pid=2805

(10-10-2013 05:00 PM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  You mean that FSU and UF are going to be getting more than the other state universities based on legislation pushed through Tallahassee by UF and FSU cronies that was specially written with performance criteria that will be impossible for USF and UCF to meet (essentially gerrymandered if you will) even though objective criteria might state otherwise. Yes, there is that.

I believe USF actually met 4 of the specific metrics last year. UCF probably had 1 or 2. I don't think it's set up so that your two schools can't attain it. But if you just want something to whine about go ahead.

The state wants at least 2 nationally competitive universities. FSU and UF are the two that offer the best opportunity at that. It wouldn't surprise me if in the next 5-10 years UCF and USF are receiving similar money, too, to get you both into the top 100 range. I think most people in Florida would be in favor of that as well, assuming FSU and UF were successful in their efforts. (It'd be a waste of taxpayer money to continue the program if it doesn't work and it'd be pure foolishness to expand it from 2 to 4, potentially spreading those resources thinner.) California does it

Objective criteria? Here are some of the criteria for the State of Florida's Pre-eminence Bill:
- student retention rate of at least 90%
- student graduation rate of at least 70%
- at least $200M in research
- at least $150M in non-medical sciences
- a top 100 ranking in at least 5 different STEM fields
- at least 100 patents awarded in the last 3 years
- at least 400 doctoral degrees awarded annually
- at least 200 post doctoral appointees annually

Seems pretty objective to me and more comprehensive than the 3-pronged "efficiency" formula the state came up with that started this whole thread.

(10-10-2013 05:38 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Absolutely no reason for UF to have a med, dental, pharm school in Gainesville. I can understand Tallahassee, they're in the panhandle.

Why is that?

(10-10-2013 06:41 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  And here it is

http://today.ucf.edu/nations-top-innovat...-michigan/

UCF is a fine school. So is USF. Both have a lot of room to improve, too. (So do FSU and UF.) I'm just not as impressed by an extra $400,000 based on an admittedly flawed system as others. I also had a differing opinion when it was said FSU and UF will have an "uphill battle" to remain the top universities in the state.

Yes it sounds pretty objective until you realize that many of those numbers where created to allow UF and FSU to qualify and not the others. So for example USF brings in more research dollars than FSU but the cut off for that category was low enough to let FSU jump the hurdle

(10-11-2013 05:55 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Yes it sounds pretty objective until you realize that many of those numbers where created to allow UF and FSU to qualify and not the others. So for example USF brings in more research dollars than FSU but the cut off for that category was low enough to let FSU jump the hurdle

So how many other of the criteria, that are good criteria to determine the quality of an institution, are set artificially low to allow someone in? I mean, if it's so low, why aren't UCF or USF reaching these low quality milestones.

(10-14-2013 12:51 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 05:55 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Yes it sounds pretty objective until you realize that many of those numbers where created to allow UF and FSU to qualify and not the others. So for example USF brings in more research dollars than FSU but the cut off for that category was low enough to let FSU jump the hurdle

So how many other of the criteria, that are good criteria to determine the quality of an institution, are set artificially low to allow someone in? I mean, if it's so low, why aren't UCF or USF reaching these low quality milestones.

LOL. You miss the point there are 12 hurdles and you must meet 11 of them. FSU met 11 of them they wouldn't have qualified without them lowering that one hurdle.

The reality is FSU and UF being more established universities would more easily be in top two of most of those categories such as endowments, graduation rates etc. UCF and USF were established a lot later and their original mission was to be in larger cities working with non full time students it hasn't been until the last few years that both schools have become more like traditional universities.

So if you use measurements were traditional universities will score higher they are more likely to meet that goal.

The research dollar barrier was brought low enough to get FSU to qualify because the reality is that had it been UF the only one to qualify it would not had pass the political machine.

I work in the legislative process. Let me assure you that the criteria were created to so that only UF and FSU would qualify, and they were made just low enough to ensure FSU got in. The true competitive money is the bonus for tech degree production, where UCF and USF took home the most money. Sometimes UCF has a friend in state government too.