Quite a few sports would only have yo travel for championships and not regular season events

...so a merger of the Big East and the WCC
Super Conference with two 10 team divisions
crossover only during in season and post season tournaments

Might not be all that bad for the other members but it would be brutal on Gonzaga.

(09-14-2013 05:43 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  not sure what does she look like?
sorry i couldnt resist a little crude posting!

Post of the year.

(09-15-2013 07:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 07:32 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 03:20 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Every time Gonzaga is brought into the conversation, they are dismissed as too far, outside the footprint, not possible, unthinkable.

Is that really true?

The idea is treated as though it's never been done before, as though the obstacles are insurmountable. What are these insurmountable obstacles?

1. It's a long trip. How long? 4 hours, 52 minutes from NY to Spokane. Hmm . . . Is that impossible? How long do you think it takes MAAC teams to bus from NYC to Buffalo or Niagara? Ivy League schools to bus from NYC to Hanover, NH? There are a myriad of other examples. The real issue is not the time but the cost. It's a lot more expensive to travel by plane than by bus

2. It's such a long way. 2190 air miles. That is a long way. But Hawaii travels 2550 miles to Sacramento to play UC Davis. Every trip that Hawaii makes in the Big West is in the neighborhood of 2000 miles or better for everyone of their teams. When Hawaii and Louisiana Tech were in the WAC together, that was a 4000 mile flight.

3. Hawaii is a bad example. They have no choice. They have to do it. If they had a choice, they wouldn't do it. . . Actually they do have a choice. It's very possible to run a world class university without intercollegiate athletics. But that aside, Hawaii isn't the only one. TX-Pan American and Seattle both compete in the WAC. That's a 2010 mile flight. Old Dominion flies 1700 miles from Norfolk, VA to El Paso, TX in CUSA. For years, Louisiana Teach flew 1900 miles from Monroe, LA to Seattle, WA in the WAC.

Folks, this is the 21st century. Planes fly at air speeds approaching 600 mph. The extra 260 miles for Gonzaga to Providence (2270 miles) vs UTPA to Seattle is less than half an hour. The extra distance for that same trip vs ODU to El Paso is less than an hour. And connections in and out of Big East cities are a lot easier than from places like Monroe, LA and Brownsville, TX.

Teams have been making arduous bus trips for generations that may be fewer miles but are not less time. They're more. And planes can fly over bad weather. Busses get caught in snow storms and every other kind of bad weather during basketball season as well as traffic jams and other delays.

The more I think of adding Gonzaga and BYU, the more sense it makes with the advantages of modern travel and with the increased TV revenue to defray the costs. Come on, this is the big time. If Louisiana Tech and UT Pan American and yes, Hawaii can do it in mid major sports, for small pay days, and on limited budgets, certainly the Big East can do it for big returns in big time sports.

We're not reinventing the wheel here. It's already being done.

The issue is does it pencil out for Gonzaga in terms of increased costs and time away from school. Hawaii students often spend a week away from school for athletics. Will Gonzaga admin do this if they don't have to?

What's with all the time away from school? It's one East Coast road trip a year, which can be scheduled during January intercession.

It's 2 road trips a year to the Midwest east of the Mississippi, which are not much different than the trips they already make to Southern California.

How is that a lot of time out of school?

And costs? Seriously? Do you want to compare the $4 million a year just in TV revenue that they'll be bringing in from the Big East TO WHAT THEY GET FROM THE wCC? The increase in shared revenue from NCAA tournament credits? Revenue from the Gig East tournament? Increased revenue from the boost in home attendance? And it's not like they don't already have high travel costs. They don't play in a bus league.

1. Gonzaga already sells out every game so there will be zero increase in attendance.

2. While does fly to every game Gonzaga the flights are all around 90 minutes or less and are non stops from Spokane airport, and with the exception of BYU are all in the same time zone. If they go to the Big East they will be much longer flights, two or three time zones away, and will require connections or they will have to charter every flight.

3. Aside from the logistical challenges joining a tougher conference if I am Gonzaga I would have serious reservations. They were a (overrated) number one seed last year, so they don't need to leave the WCC to get a good seed in the tournament. They can play a tough OOC schedule, cruise through most of their conference schedule and still get an at large bid if they lose in their conference tournament. There is no guarantee that they would be a top team every year in the Big East.

(09-17-2013 08:12 AM)Natty Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 05:43 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  not sure what does she look like?
sorry i couldnt resist a little crude posting!

Post of the year.

After how many beers and at what time of the night/morning?

(09-17-2013 09:16 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 07:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 07:32 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 03:20 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Every time Gonzaga is brought into the conversation, they are dismissed as too far, outside the footprint, not possible, unthinkable.

Is that really true?

The idea is treated as though it's never been done before, as though the obstacles are insurmountable. What are these insurmountable obstacles?

1. It's a long trip. How long? 4 hours, 52 minutes from NY to Spokane. Hmm . . . Is that impossible? How long do you think it takes MAAC teams to bus from NYC to Buffalo or Niagara? Ivy League schools to bus from NYC to Hanover, NH? There are a myriad of other examples. The real issue is not the time but the cost. It's a lot more expensive to travel by plane than by bus

2. It's such a long way. 2190 air miles. That is a long way. But Hawaii travels 2550 miles to Sacramento to play UC Davis. Every trip that Hawaii makes in the Big West is in the neighborhood of 2000 miles or better for everyone of their teams. When Hawaii and Louisiana Tech were in the WAC together, that was a 4000 mile flight.

3. Hawaii is a bad example. They have no choice. They have to do it. If they had a choice, they wouldn't do it. . . Actually they do have a choice. It's very possible to run a world class university without intercollegiate athletics. But that aside, Hawaii isn't the only one. TX-Pan American and Seattle both compete in the WAC. That's a 2010 mile flight. Old Dominion flies 1700 miles from Norfolk, VA to El Paso, TX in CUSA. For years, Louisiana Teach flew 1900 miles from Monroe, LA to Seattle, WA in the WAC.

Folks, this is the 21st century. Planes fly at air speeds approaching 600 mph. The extra 260 miles for Gonzaga to Providence (2270 miles) vs UTPA to Seattle is less than half an hour. The extra distance for that same trip vs ODU to El Paso is less than an hour. And connections in and out of Big East cities are a lot easier than from places like Monroe, LA and Brownsville, TX.

Teams have been making arduous bus trips for generations that may be fewer miles but are not less time. They're more. And planes can fly over bad weather. Busses get caught in snow storms and every other kind of bad weather during basketball season as well as traffic jams and other delays.

The more I think of adding Gonzaga and BYU, the more sense it makes with the advantages of modern travel and with the increased TV revenue to defray the costs. Come on, this is the big time. If Louisiana Tech and UT Pan American and yes, Hawaii can do it in mid major sports, for small pay days, and on limited budgets, certainly the Big East can do it for big returns in big time sports.

We're not reinventing the wheel here. It's already being done.

The issue is does it pencil out for Gonzaga in terms of increased costs and time away from school. Hawaii students often spend a week away from school for athletics. Will Gonzaga admin do this if they don't have to?

What's with all the time away from school? It's one East Coast road trip a year, which can be scheduled during January intercession.

It's 2 road trips a year to the Midwest east of the Mississippi, which are not much different than the trips they already make to Southern California.

How is that a lot of time out of school?

And costs? Seriously? Do you want to compare the $4 million a year just in TV revenue that they'll be bringing in from the Big East TO WHAT THEY GET FROM THE wCC? The increase in shared revenue from NCAA tournament credits? Revenue from the Gig East tournament? Increased revenue from the boost in home attendance? And it's not like they don't already have high travel costs. They don't play in a bus league.

1. Gonzaga already sells out every game so there will be zero increase in attendance.

2. While does fly to every game Gonzaga the flights are all around 90 minutes or less and are non stops from Spokane airport, and with the exception of BYU are all in the same time zone. If they go to the Big East they will be much longer flights, two or three time zones away, and will require connections or they will have to charter every flight.

3. Aside from the logistical challenges joining a tougher conference if I am Gonzaga I would have serious reservations. They were a (overrated) number one seed last year, so they don't need to leave the WCC to get a good seed in the tournament. They can play a tough OOC schedule, cruise through most of their conference schedule and still get an at large bid if they lose in their conference tournament. There is no guarantee that they would be a top team every year in the Big East.

Wouldn't Gonzaga potentially play MORE games at the Key Arena in Seattle?

(09-17-2013 10:58 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 09:16 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 07:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 07:32 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 03:20 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Every time Gonzaga is brought into the conversation, they are dismissed as too far, outside the footprint, not possible, unthinkable.

Is that really true?

The idea is treated as though it's never been done before, as though the obstacles are insurmountable. What are these insurmountable obstacles?

1. It's a long trip. How long? 4 hours, 52 minutes from NY to Spokane. Hmm . . . Is that impossible? How long do you think it takes MAAC teams to bus from NYC to Buffalo or Niagara? Ivy League schools to bus from NYC to Hanover, NH? There are a myriad of other examples. The real issue is not the time but the cost. It's a lot more expensive to travel by plane than by bus

2. It's such a long way. 2190 air miles. That is a long way. But Hawaii travels 2550 miles to Sacramento to play UC Davis. Every trip that Hawaii makes in the Big West is in the neighborhood of 2000 miles or better for everyone of their teams. When Hawaii and Louisiana Tech were in the WAC together, that was a 4000 mile flight.

3. Hawaii is a bad example. They have no choice. They have to do it. If they had a choice, they wouldn't do it. . . Actually they do have a choice. It's very possible to run a world class university without intercollegiate athletics. But that aside, Hawaii isn't the only one. TX-Pan American and Seattle both compete in the WAC. That's a 2010 mile flight. Old Dominion flies 1700 miles from Norfolk, VA to El Paso, TX in CUSA. For years, Louisiana Teach flew 1900 miles from Monroe, LA to Seattle, WA in the WAC.

Folks, this is the 21st century. Planes fly at air speeds approaching 600 mph. The extra 260 miles for Gonzaga to Providence (2270 miles) vs UTPA to Seattle is less than half an hour. The extra distance for that same trip vs ODU to El Paso is less than an hour. And connections in and out of Big East cities are a lot easier than from places like Monroe, LA and Brownsville, TX.

Teams have been making arduous bus trips for generations that may be fewer miles but are not less time. They're more. And planes can fly over bad weather. Busses get caught in snow storms and every other kind of bad weather during basketball season as well as traffic jams and other delays.

The more I think of adding Gonzaga and BYU, the more sense it makes with the advantages of modern travel and with the increased TV revenue to defray the costs. Come on, this is the big time. If Louisiana Tech and UT Pan American and yes, Hawaii can do it in mid major sports, for small pay days, and on limited budgets, certainly the Big East can do it for big returns in big time sports.

We're not reinventing the wheel here. It's already being done.

The issue is does it pencil out for Gonzaga in terms of increased costs and time away from school. Hawaii students often spend a week away from school for athletics. Will Gonzaga admin do this if they don't have to?

What's with all the time away from school? It's one East Coast road trip a year, which can be scheduled during January intercession.

It's 2 road trips a year to the Midwest east of the Mississippi, which are not much different than the trips they already make to Southern California.

How is that a lot of time out of school?

And costs? Seriously? Do you want to compare the $4 million a year just in TV revenue that they'll be bringing in from the Big East TO WHAT THEY GET FROM THE wCC? The increase in shared revenue from NCAA tournament credits? Revenue from the Gig East tournament? Increased revenue from the boost in home attendance? And it's not like they don't already have high travel costs. They don't play in a bus league.

1. Gonzaga already sells out every game so there will be zero increase in attendance.

2. While does fly to every game Gonzaga the flights are all around 90 minutes or less and are non stops from Spokane airport, and with the exception of BYU are all in the same time zone. If they go to the Big East they will be much longer flights, two or three time zones away, and will require connections or they will have to charter every flight.

3. Aside from the logistical challenges joining a tougher conference if I am Gonzaga I would have serious reservations. They were a (overrated) number one seed last year, so they don't need to leave the WCC to get a good seed in the tournament. They can play a tough OOC schedule, cruise through most of their conference schedule and still get an at large bid if they lose in their conference tournament. There is no guarantee that they would be a top team every year in the Big East.

Wouldn't Gonzaga potentially play MORE games at the Key Arena in Seattle?

Notice where Spokane is and where Seattle is?

(09-17-2013 10:58 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 09:16 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 07:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 07:32 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 03:20 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Every time Gonzaga is brought into the conversation, they are dismissed as too far, outside the footprint, not possible, unthinkable.

Is that really true?

The idea is treated as though it's never been done before, as though the obstacles are insurmountable. What are these insurmountable obstacles?

1. It's a long trip. How long? 4 hours, 52 minutes from NY to Spokane. Hmm . . . Is that impossible? How long do you think it takes MAAC teams to bus from NYC to Buffalo or Niagara? Ivy League schools to bus from NYC to Hanover, NH? There are a myriad of other examples. The real issue is not the time but the cost. It's a lot more expensive to travel by plane than by bus

2. It's such a long way. 2190 air miles. That is a long way. But Hawaii travels 2550 miles to Sacramento to play UC Davis. Every trip that Hawaii makes in the Big West is in the neighborhood of 2000 miles or better for everyone of their teams. When Hawaii and Louisiana Tech were in the WAC together, that was a 4000 mile flight.

3. Hawaii is a bad example. They have no choice. They have to do it. If they had a choice, they wouldn't do it. . . Actually they do have a choice. It's very possible to run a world class university without intercollegiate athletics. But that aside, Hawaii isn't the only one. TX-Pan American and Seattle both compete in the WAC. That's a 2010 mile flight. Old Dominion flies 1700 miles from Norfolk, VA to El Paso, TX in CUSA. For years, Louisiana Teach flew 1900 miles from Monroe, LA to Seattle, WA in the WAC.

Folks, this is the 21st century. Planes fly at air speeds approaching 600 mph. The extra 260 miles for Gonzaga to Providence (2270 miles) vs UTPA to Seattle is less than half an hour. The extra distance for that same trip vs ODU to El Paso is less than an hour. And connections in and out of Big East cities are a lot easier than from places like Monroe, LA and Brownsville, TX.

Teams have been making arduous bus trips for generations that may be fewer miles but are not less time. They're more. And planes can fly over bad weather. Busses get caught in snow storms and every other kind of bad weather during basketball season as well as traffic jams and other delays.

The more I think of adding Gonzaga and BYU, the more sense it makes with the advantages of modern travel and with the increased TV revenue to defray the costs. Come on, this is the big time. If Louisiana Tech and UT Pan American and yes, Hawaii can do it in mid major sports, for small pay days, and on limited budgets, certainly the Big East can do it for big returns in big time sports.

We're not reinventing the wheel here. It's already being done.

The issue is does it pencil out for Gonzaga in terms of increased costs and time away from school. Hawaii students often spend a week away from school for athletics. Will Gonzaga admin do this if they don't have to?

What's with all the time away from school? It's one East Coast road trip a year, which can be scheduled during January intercession.

It's 2 road trips a year to the Midwest east of the Mississippi, which are not much different than the trips they already make to Southern California.

How is that a lot of time out of school?

And costs? Seriously? Do you want to compare the $4 million a year just in TV revenue that they'll be bringing in from the Big East TO WHAT THEY GET FROM THE wCC? The increase in shared revenue from NCAA tournament credits? Revenue from the Gig East tournament? Increased revenue from the boost in home attendance? And it's not like they don't already have high travel costs. They don't play in a bus league.

1. Gonzaga already sells out every game so there will be zero increase in attendance.

2. While does fly to every game Gonzaga the flights are all around 90 minutes or less and are non stops from Spokane airport, and with the exception of BYU are all in the same time zone. If they go to the Big East they will be much longer flights, two or three time zones away, and will require connections or they will have to charter every flight.

3. Aside from the logistical challenges joining a tougher conference if I am Gonzaga I would have serious reservations. They were a (overrated) number one seed last year, so they don't need to leave the WCC to get a good seed in the tournament. They can play a tough OOC schedule, cruise through most of their conference schedule and still get an at large bid if they lose in their conference tournament. There is no guarantee that they would be a top team every year in the Big East.

Wouldn't Gonzaga potentially play MORE games at the Key Arena in Seattle?

1. Spokane Arena has double the capacity of the McCarthy Center. Gonzaga has played big games such as Memphis there in the past. That's where the increased attendance would go.

2. Gonzaga is already taking 2-3 road trips per year (3 this year) to the Midwest and the East. Standard flight times to San Diego and LA are about 150 minutes. The WCC now has 4 members in Southern California, so that's 2 trips per year. A trip to Chicago/Milwaukee only adds an hour to that. I don't see that as being much longer than that and it's not any longer than a trip to Omaha.

3. Gonzaga can get to the tournament every year out of the WCC but once they. Get there, they play like a mid major. They haven't gotten as far as the Elite 8 since 1999 and they've only gotten to the Sweet 16 twice in the past 10 years. Playing in the WCC doesn't prepare them for the tournament and it holds back their recruiting. Right now they have a ceiling on how high they can go. They have outgrown that conference.

Guys - men's basketball is NOT the issue with respect to Gonzaga. If it were just the basketball team, then it's doable.

What is NOT doable is every single other sport. That's the big problem and, as much as we might wish that it were possible, there's not going to be a basketball-only membership coming out of this.

What's much more feasible is for the Big East to approach Gonzaga and BYU to set up several non-conference games in November and December. Let's say that Gonzaga and BYU plays 4 Big East teams each (2 home and 2 away) every year. That gives a boost to the Big East's early season TV inventory, boosts non-conference scheduling for everyone, and lets the league take advantage of the only sport that they really care about with respect to any western schools (men's basketball) without having to drag everyone else into an untenable conference membership. Heck, pick a couple of other western schools (St. Mary's? UNLV?) on top of Gonzaga and BYU to get everyone involved in the Big East annually. There are ways to get quality games played without conference membership.

(09-17-2013 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Guys - men's basketball is NOT the issue with respect to Gonzaga. If it were just the basketball team, then it's doable.

What is NOT doable is every single other sport. That's the big problem and, as much as we might wish that it were possible, there's not going to be a basketball-only membership coming out of this.

What's much more feasible is for the Big East to approach Gonzaga and BYU to set up several non-conference games in November and December. Let's say that Gonzaga and BYU plays 4 Big East teams each (2 home and 2 away) every year. That gives a boost to the Big East's early season TV inventory, boosts non-conference scheduling for everyone, and lets the league take advantage of the only sport that they really care about with respect to any western schools (men's basketball) without having to drag everyone else into an untenable conference membership. Heck, pick a couple of other western schools (St. Mary's? UNLV?) on top of Gonzaga and BYU to get everyone involved in the Big East annually. There are ways to get quality games played without conference membership.

Frank, how is it not doable for all sports? It's roughly a 2000 mile flight from Spokane to the East Coast, which is the farthest any team would have to go. That kind of distance is already being handled in both the WAC and in the Big West. So, it's not a hypothetical question. It's already being done in the real world.

While the distance is impressive, it's not the miles that matter; it's the time. College sports have been played for 125 years. That means trains 100 years ago, which was a much slower mode of transportation. It means busses 50 years ago on back roads before the interstate highway system. 8-10 hour trips were not uncommon. A Spokane to NYC flight is less than 5 hours.

A non-conference scheduling agreement misses the point. The Gonzaga proposal is in response to anticipated expansion. A non-conference scheduling agreement does absolutely nothing for expansion. Other expansion alternatives water down the Big East and harm its chances of remaining a power conference. Gonzaga is a quality addition on the court. VCU and BYU are the only other 2 prospects out there that would also be of sufficient quality on the court to maintain the Big East's competitive level.

Looking at it from a Big East perspective, Gonzaga is what they're looking for. In one sense, wouldn't the A-10 be hoping for that as well?

If it's Gonzaga/BYU, no other members leave the league. So that's win-win for the Big East and the A-10. I'll let each school's fans decide if they're a winner as well.

I don't consider travel to be an issue, period.

SLU has had a horrible travel situation for years.

(09-17-2013 03:47 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Guys - men's basketball is NOT the issue with respect to Gonzaga. If it were just the basketball team, then it's doable.

What is NOT doable is every single other sport. That's the big problem and, as much as we might wish that it were possible, there's not going to be a basketball-only membership coming out of this.

What's much more feasible is for the Big East to approach Gonzaga and BYU to set up several non-conference games in November and December. Let's say that Gonzaga and BYU plays 4 Big East teams each (2 home and 2 away) every year. That gives a boost to the Big East's early season TV inventory, boosts non-conference scheduling for everyone, and lets the league take advantage of the only sport that they really care about with respect to any western schools (men's basketball) without having to drag everyone else into an untenable conference membership. Heck, pick a couple of other western schools (St. Mary's? UNLV?) on top of Gonzaga and BYU to get everyone involved in the Big East annually. There are ways to get quality games played without conference membership.

Frank, how is it not doable for all sports? It's roughly a 2000 mile flight from Spokane to the East Coast, which is the farthest any team would have to go. That kind of distance is already be handled in both the WAC and in the Big West. So, it's not a hypothetical question. It's already being done in the real world.

While the distance is impressive, it's not the miles that matter; it's the time. College sports have been played for 125 years. That means trains 100 years ago, which was a much slower mode of transportation. It means busses 50 years ago on back roads before the interstate highway system. 8-10 hour trips were not uncommon. A Spokane to NYC flight is less than 5 hours.

A non-conference scheduling agreement misses the point. The Gonzaga proposal is in response to anticipated expansion. A non-conference scheduling agreement does absolutely nothing for expansion. Other expansion alternatives water down the Big East and harm its chances of remaining a power conference. Gonzaga is a quality addition on the court. VCU and BYU are the only other 2 prospects out there that would also be of sufficient quality on the court to maintain the Big East's competitive level.

There is a difference traveling within a timezone and traveling across 3 of them.

Melky still doesn't like Saint Louis.

Funny he mentions VCU though...I remember SLU and VCU playing on the court twice last season. Wanna guess how those games turned out?

I like a lot about VCU...probably the hottest property out there. Great team, and outstanding coach. But to say that SLU hurts the Big East competitively while teams SLU defeated don't is absurd.

(09-17-2013 04:22 PM)LouPower Wrote:  I don't consider travel to be an issue, period.

SLU has had a horrible travel situation for years.

SLU's travel situation is *extremely* mild compared to what is being contemplated with respect to Gonzaga here. The sheer distance, the multiple time zones, the limited number of direct flights to and from Spokane (if there are any at all from the Big East markets) are all factors that go way beyond SLU's geographic position in the A-10.

There seems to be a general overestimation of the distance between the East Coast and Midwest and an underestimation of how far the West Coast is by comparison. Going from St. Louis to New York City is an unbelievably easy trip compared to going anywhere in the Eastern or Central Time Zones to Spokane.

I love Gonzaga and when I first started writing about conference realignment nearly 4 years ago, one of the first things that I pointed out was that geography is an overrated factor. However, that doesn't mean that geography is irrelevant - the gap here is completely massive (and it's compounded by the fact that Gonzaga isn't in a location that has a lot of flights like Seattle or LA). West Virginia can barely take the Big 12 travel just crossing one time zone and a much shorter distance to a major airport, and those guys are cashing power conference football checks.

(09-18-2013 04:04 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 04:22 PM)LouPower Wrote:  I don't consider travel to be an issue, period.

SLU has had a horrible travel situation for years.

SLU's travel situation is *extremely* mild compared to what is being contemplated with respect to Gonzaga here. The sheer distance, the multiple time zones, the limited number of direct flights to and from Spokane (if there are any at all from the Big East markets) are all factors that go way beyond SLU's geographic position in the A-10.

There seems to be a general overestimation of the distance between the East Coast and Midwest and an underestimation of how far the West Coast is by comparison. Going from St. Louis to New York City is an unbelievably easy trip compared to going anywhere in the Eastern or Central Time Zones to Spokane.

I love Gonzaga and when I first started writing about conference realignment nearly 4 years ago, one of the first things that I pointed out was that geography is an overrated factor. However, that doesn't mean that geography is irrelevant - the gap here is completely massive (and it's compounded by the fact that Gonzaga isn't in a location that has a lot of flights like Seattle or LA). West Virginia can barely take the Big 12 travel just crossing one time zone and a much shorter distance to a major airport, and those guys are cashing power conference football checks.

Frank, Gonzaga has its own charter, which they use for all their teams. That's how they make the already massive distances that their teams travel work, i.e. in basketball, it's 2-3 trips per year to the Midwest and the East - 4 in one recent year - and 2 trips to southern California.

I wonder how many other schools use a charter instead of commercial flights. If the Big East were interested in Gonzaga, it would make sense for them to contract with a charter company to be shared among the various schools when they need it for such a trip. With a charter, Providence to Spokane becomes a 5 hour flight; everyone else on the East Coast is less than that. That's not a short trip. but it's certainly within the range of what lots of trips have looked like over the years. With intelligent scheduling and a travel partner, it can be very workable.

I think that too many people are looking at the reasons why it won't work instead of trying to figure out what it would take to make it work.

Air miles from Spokane to Providence = 2270. Every other East Coast destination is less. The Big West and the WAC are already dealing with spans in the 2000-2500 mile neighborhood. Somehow they're making it work, so it's not like this is some crazy idea that no one's ever attempted before.

(09-17-2013 05:32 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 03:47 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Guys - men's basketball is NOT the issue with respect to Gonzaga. If it were just the basketball team, then it's doable.

What is NOT doable is every single other sport. That's the big problem and, as much as we might wish that it were possible, there's not going to be a basketball-only membership coming out of this.

What's much more feasible is for the Big East to approach Gonzaga and BYU to set up several non-conference games in November and December. Let's say that Gonzaga and BYU plays 4 Big East teams each (2 home and 2 away) every year. That gives a boost to the Big East's early season TV inventory, boosts non-conference scheduling for everyone, and lets the league take advantage of the only sport that they really care about with respect to any western schools (men's basketball) without having to drag everyone else into an untenable conference membership. Heck, pick a couple of other western schools (St. Mary's? UNLV?) on top of Gonzaga and BYU to get everyone involved in the Big East annually. There are ways to get quality games played without conference membership.

Frank, how is it not doable for all sports? It's roughly a 2000 mile flight from Spokane to the East Coast, which is the farthest any team would have to go. That kind of distance is already be handled in both the WAC and in the Big West. So, it's not a hypothetical question. It's already being done in the real world.

While the distance is impressive, it's not the miles that matter; it's the time. College sports have been played for 125 years. That means trains 100 years ago, which was a much slower mode of transportation. It means busses 50 years ago on back roads before the interstate highway system. 8-10 hour trips were not uncommon. A Spokane to NYC flight is less than 5 hours.

A non-conference scheduling agreement misses the point. The Gonzaga proposal is in response to anticipated expansion. A non-conference scheduling agreement does absolutely nothing for expansion. Other expansion alternatives water down the Big East and harm its chances of remaining a power conference. Gonzaga is a quality addition on the court. VCU and BYU are the only other 2 prospects out there that would also be of sufficient quality on the court to maintain the Big East's competitive level.

There is a difference traveling within a timezone and traveling across 3 of them.

The Big West is already dealing with 4 time zones. The WAC is dealing with 3. Both are dealing with the same kinds of distances.

This is not rocket science. It's already being done.

If you think negatively about it, you'll continue to come up with more & more reasons why it won't work. But if your boss came in tomorrow morning and said "We've got to do this. Tell me what it's going to take to make it work," you'd think differently about it and you'd find a way to make it work.

If after looking at it with a problem solving approach and come up with the things to make it work and decide that it's still not worth it, I can buy that. But to harp constantly on the negatives shows that you simply haven't looked at this with an open mind.

just a point gleaned from the GU board where billyjack posted the poll is that the charter has only been used for the basketball team.

(09-18-2013 05:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 05:32 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 03:47 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Guys - men's basketball is NOT the issue with respect to Gonzaga. If it were just the basketball team, then it's doable.

What is NOT doable is every single other sport. That's the big problem and, as much as we might wish that it were possible, there's not going to be a basketball-only membership coming out of this.

What's much more feasible is for the Big East to approach Gonzaga and BYU to set up several non-conference games in November and December. Let's say that Gonzaga and BYU plays 4 Big East teams each (2 home and 2 away) every year. That gives a boost to the Big East's early season TV inventory, boosts non-conference scheduling for everyone, and lets the league take advantage of the only sport that they really care about with respect to any western schools (men's basketball) without having to drag everyone else into an untenable conference membership. Heck, pick a couple of other western schools (St. Mary's? UNLV?) on top of Gonzaga and BYU to get everyone involved in the Big East annually. There are ways to get quality games played without conference membership.

Frank, how is it not doable for all sports? It's roughly a 2000 mile flight from Spokane to the East Coast, which is the farthest any team would have to go. That kind of distance is already be handled in both the WAC and in the Big West. So, it's not a hypothetical question. It's already being done in the real world.

While the distance is impressive, it's not the miles that matter; it's the time. College sports have been played for 125 years. That means trains 100 years ago, which was a much slower mode of transportation. It means busses 50 years ago on back roads before the interstate highway system. 8-10 hour trips were not uncommon. A Spokane to NYC flight is less than 5 hours.

A non-conference scheduling agreement misses the point. The Gonzaga proposal is in response to anticipated expansion. A non-conference scheduling agreement does absolutely nothing for expansion. Other expansion alternatives water down the Big East and harm its chances of remaining a power conference. Gonzaga is a quality addition on the court. VCU and BYU are the only other 2 prospects out there that would also be of sufficient quality on the court to maintain the Big East's competitive level.

There is a difference traveling within a timezone and traveling across 3 of them.

The Big West is already dealing with 4 time zones. The WAC is dealing with 3. Both are dealing with the same kinds of distances.

This is not rocket science. It's already being done.

If you think negatively about it, you'll continue to come up with more & more reasons why it won't work. But if your boss came in tomorrow morning and said "We've got to do this. Tell me what it's going to take to make it work," you'd think differently about it and you'd find a way to make it work.

If after looking at it with a problem solving approach and come up with the things to make it work and decide that it's still not worth it, I can buy that. But to harp constantly on the negatives shows that you simply haven't looked at this with an open mind.

But we don't HAVE to get this done. You've already made up your mind that it's an easy thing to accomplish.

You are thinking super positively about it so it makes sense to you. Many of us don't share that view and you get frustrated and defensive when poised with any opposition.

Frank is a very level headed poster and has been right more times than not. He doesn't see how it's doable.

You mention the WAC and whatnot but those leagues NEED to do that in order to survive. We don't. Spokane isn't easy to get to. It's four time zones away from half the league. It's not at all easy to get to. Are we supposed to charter a jet for the soccer and baseball team? Thats a lot of our new money being eaten up on travel for one team. Our per team pay isn't being raised and now our traveling expenses are being inflated. That doesn't makes sense or cents to me or the schools. Thats why it wont happen. Traveling within the footprint doesn't increase the cost to do business.