You don't have to do a home and home with those types of teams. You just have to give one of the mid-major types who fall in there a shot at beating you on your home court - take Long Beach as a perfect example of that. You don't think they'd take a one shot deal against a team in this league that's a top-half team?

Weber St., Indiana St., North Dakota St., Montana, Northwestern St., Stony Brook, Gulf Coast, Iona, Loyola-Md, and Pacific are all teams that were top 100 teams last year, and there are another dozen teams in 101-125 who could be bought.


The problem with this is not the lack of suitable teams. To illustrate: Bill Self was on a local Omaha radio show about three years ago. The host of the show intimated that CU would be willing to play KU in a one shot game at Allen Fieldhouse. Self laughed and said it would never, ever happen on his watch. Not even without a return game. The reason? He said it was too risky to potentially lose at home to a team who, while being a very good team, would absolutely enrage the fan base due to their lack of name. And that's the same problem here: do the top rung teams want to take on Stony Brook, and open up a 5-7% chance of a home loss, or play Chump State where you have a 99.8% chance of winning?

All that needs to be changed to schedule those games is a change in attitude of the coaches in the league in regards to scheduling. I'm not holding my breath, though.

I do hope CU continues to schedule the way they have in past years OOC.

(09-04-2013 11:15 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 10:46 AM)handdownmandown Wrote:  There's a simple fix to that.

Just take off one of the 200+ RPI cupcakes that we all play from the OOC schedule and stick in a 75-125 RPI team. In essence, you're trading a semi-challenging conference game (and an easy W OOC) for a semi-challenging OOC game, with an easy W in conference.

I still stand by my original point: an extra game against an atrocious league team is offset by every other team that would have lost to them being that much better in the RPI.

2 problems with doing a 75-125 rpi team ooc...
1- have to do home/home with those teams, costing you a home date every other year
or
2- have to do a buy type game hopefully, which will cost you however much it costs to buy the opponent.

some coaches are going to have to change the way they schedule OOC quite frankly.
last year- OOC SOS
Georgetown 181
Marqette 104
Villanova 167
Providence 265
St Johns 153
Seton Hall 237
DePaul 334

With the drop in the conference SOS(which will happen- last year the 7 C7 schools all had top 27 conference SOS- that just won't happen in the new Big East), teams are going to have to make up that difference OOC. What you were saying was going to have to happen regardless.

Now, compare this to what Butler, Xavier, and Creighton did sos:
Butler OOC 60 Conf 57
Xavier OOC 91 Conf 77
Creighton OOC 67 Conf 124

So, all 3 played better schedules OOC than any of the BE schools did.

It'll be interesting to see if the 3 newbies continue to schedule great OOC, and conversely, if the C7 starts scheduling better OOC.

This is really a non-issue. The conference schedule is strong enough.

Is it as strong as last year? I don't think so. Think last year, if the conference strength hadn't been as strong. Does Villanova or Cincy get into the tourney? Nope. Look at Nova. If they have this years schedule, they don't see Louisville or Syracuse at home. If they don't get either of those 2 wins, but instead wins over Butler or Creighton, their at large case is a lot different.

Also, you have to remember using last years numbers, the C7 schools went 60-66 in BE play. The 3 newbies went 33-17 in their conferences. Add that up and it's 93-83. Would need to remove 3 wins and add 7 losses to balance that out..

(for those wondering, the AAC- this years version went 89-81 in conference play last year. So, add 1 more win and 9 more losses. Next years version went 93-89 in conference play. Not sure how they will schedule next year, but 4 additional losses.)

(09-04-2013 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:15 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 10:46 AM)handdownmandown Wrote:  There's a simple fix to that.

Just take off one of the 200+ RPI cupcakes that we all play from the OOC schedule and stick in a 75-125 RPI team. In essence, you're trading a semi-challenging conference game (and an easy W OOC) for a semi-challenging OOC game, with an easy W in conference.

I still stand by my original point: an extra game against an atrocious league team is offset by every other team that would have lost to them being that much better in the RPI.

2 problems with doing a 75-125 rpi team ooc...
1- have to do home/home with those teams, costing you a home date every other year
or
2- have to do a buy type game hopefully, which will cost you however much it costs to buy the opponent.

some coaches are going to have to change the way they schedule OOC quite frankly.
last year- OOC SOS
Georgetown 181
Marqette 104
Villanova 167
Providence 265
St Johns 153
Seton Hall 237
DePaul 334

With the drop in the conference SOS(which will happen- last year the 7 C7 schools all had top 27 conference SOS- that just won't happen in the new Big East), teams are going to have to make up that difference OOC. What you were saying was going to have to happen regardless.

Now, compare this to what Butler, Xavier, and Creighton did sos:
Butler OOC 60 Conf 57
Xavier OOC 91 Conf 77
Creighton OOC 67 Conf 124

So, all 3 played better schedules OOC than any of the BE schools did.

It'll be interesting to see if the 3 newbies continue to schedule great OOC, and conversely, if the C7 starts scheduling better OOC.

This is really a non-issue. The conference schedule is strong enough.

Is it as strong as last year? I don't think so. Think last year, if the conference strength hadn't been as strong. Does Villanova or Cincy get into the tourney? Nope. Look at Nova. If they have this years schedule, they don't see Louisville or Syracuse at home. If they don't get either of those 2 wins, but instead wins over Butler or Creighton, their at large case is a lot different.

Also, you have to remember using last years numbers, the C7 schools went 60-66 in BE play. The 3 newbies went 33-17 in their conferences. Add that up and it's 93-83. Would need to remove 3 wins and add 7 losses to balance that out..

(for those wondering, the AAC- this years version went 89-81 in conference play last year. So, add 1 more win and 9 more losses. Next years version went 93-89 in conference play. Not sure how they will schedule next year, but 4 additional losses.)

It doesn't have to be as strong as last year's. It's strong enough.

You've already pointed out the implications of playing everyone twice. Regardless of how the old schedule was manipulated, any team still got to play only 3 teams twice in the 16 team league regular season. (Last year it was 4.)

(09-04-2013 08:59 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The thing is, looking at DePaul's OOC schedule, if they go 8-5, that's good for them. If they go 0-18 in the league and then lose 1st rd BET game, they finish 8-24. That's a real RPI killer there. Whoever finished 7th would have that 3 times.

With the double round robin format, DePaul's conference record is rendered meaningless in the RPI calculation. The 3 components are:

1. Winning Percentage (25%)
2. Opponents' Winning Percentage (50%)
3. Opponents' Opponents' Winning Percentage (25%)

So a win for DePaul ends up a loss for Seton Hall or Butler or Marquette. Big deal, since you play them all twice now. It counts as a win and a loss for number's 2 and 3 above. It mattered in the previous version of the BE because of the unbalanced schedule. Once you get into conference, it is a .500 proposition for all games.

(09-04-2013 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:15 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 10:46 AM)handdownmandown Wrote:  There's a simple fix to that.

Just take off one of the 200+ RPI cupcakes that we all play from the OOC schedule and stick in a 75-125 RPI team. In essence, you're trading a semi-challenging conference game (and an easy W OOC) for a semi-challenging OOC game, with an easy W in conference.

I still stand by my original point: an extra game against an atrocious league team is offset by every other team that would have lost to them being that much better in the RPI.

2 problems with doing a 75-125 rpi team ooc...
1- have to do home/home with those teams, costing you a home date every other year
or
2- have to do a buy type game hopefully, which will cost you however much it costs to buy the opponent.

some coaches are going to have to change the way they schedule OOC quite frankly.
last year- OOC SOS
Georgetown 181
Marqette 104
Villanova 167
Providence 265
St Johns 153
Seton Hall 237
DePaul 334

With the drop in the conference SOS(which will happen- last year the 7 C7 schools all had top 27 conference SOS- that just won't happen in the new Big East), teams are going to have to make up that difference OOC. What you were saying was going to have to happen regardless.

Now, compare this to what Butler, Xavier, and Creighton did sos:
Butler OOC 60 Conf 57
Xavier OOC 91 Conf 77
Creighton OOC 67 Conf 124

So, all 3 played better schedules OOC than any of the BE schools did.

It'll be interesting to see if the 3 newbies continue to schedule great OOC, and conversely, if the C7 starts scheduling better OOC.

This is really a non-issue. The conference schedule is strong enough.

Is it as strong as last year? I don't think so. Think last year, if the conference strength hadn't been as strong. Does Villanova or Cincy get into the tourney? Nope. Look at Nova. If they have this years schedule, they don't see Louisville or Syracuse at home. If they don't get either of those 2 wins, but instead wins over Butler or Creighton, their at large case is a lot different.

Also, you have to remember using last years numbers, the C7 schools went 60-66 in BE play. The 3 newbies went 33-17 in their conferences. Add that up and it's 93-83. Would need to remove 3 wins and add 7 losses to balance that out..

(for those wondering, the AAC- this years version went 89-81 in conference play last year. So, add 1 more win and 9 more losses. Next years version went 93-89 in conference play. Not sure how they will schedule next year, but 4 additional losses.)

Oh god Stever, just look at last years OOC compared to this years already.

Last year Duke pulled out last minute on St. John's. This year we have Wisconsin and Cuse. Next year we have Cuse and prob grab another big name.

You are such a negative nancy who has to twist arguments to make your point. Last year we didn't need a murders row in OOC because we had UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, and Cincy on our schedule. The thing is we also lose USF and Rutgers from or SOS. We also dodged a TCU bullet.

Think positive for once in your life. Seriously, you must be a blast at parties.

(09-04-2013 11:53 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:15 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 10:46 AM)handdownmandown Wrote:  There's a simple fix to that.

Just take off one of the 200+ RPI cupcakes that we all play from the OOC schedule and stick in a 75-125 RPI team. In essence, you're trading a semi-challenging conference game (and an easy W OOC) for a semi-challenging OOC game, with an easy W in conference.

I still stand by my original point: an extra game against an atrocious league team is offset by every other team that would have lost to them being that much better in the RPI.

2 problems with doing a 75-125 rpi team ooc...
1- have to do home/home with those teams, costing you a home date every other year
or
2- have to do a buy type game hopefully, which will cost you however much it costs to buy the opponent.

some coaches are going to have to change the way they schedule OOC quite frankly.
last year- OOC SOS
Georgetown 181
Marqette 104
Villanova 167
Providence 265
St Johns 153
Seton Hall 237
DePaul 334

With the drop in the conference SOS(which will happen- last year the 7 C7 schools all had top 27 conference SOS- that just won't happen in the new Big East), teams are going to have to make up that difference OOC. What you were saying was going to have to happen regardless.

Now, compare this to what Butler, Xavier, and Creighton did sos:
Butler OOC 60 Conf 57
Xavier OOC 91 Conf 77
Creighton OOC 67 Conf 124

So, all 3 played better schedules OOC than any of the BE schools did.

It'll be interesting to see if the 3 newbies continue to schedule great OOC, and conversely, if the C7 starts scheduling better OOC.

This is really a non-issue. The conference schedule is strong enough.

Is it as strong as last year? I don't think so. Think last year, if the conference strength hadn't been as strong. Does Villanova or Cincy get into the tourney? Nope. Look at Nova. If they have this years schedule, they don't see Louisville or Syracuse at home. If they don't get either of those 2 wins, but instead wins over Butler or Creighton, their at large case is a lot different.

Also, you have to remember using last years numbers, the C7 schools went 60-66 in BE play. The 3 newbies went 33-17 in their conferences. Add that up and it's 93-83. Would need to remove 3 wins and add 7 losses to balance that out..

(for those wondering, the AAC- this years version went 89-81 in conference play last year. So, add 1 more win and 9 more losses. Next years version went 93-89 in conference play. Not sure how they will schedule next year, but 4 additional losses.)

It doesn't have to be as strong as last year's. It's strong enough.

You've already pointed out the implications of playing everyone twice. Regardless of how the old schedule was manipulated, any team still got to play only 3 teams twice in the 16 team league regular season. (Last year it was 4.)

That is extremely debatable. If instead of being in the top 27 for all teams in conference SOS, it's now between 26-50, that is a dropoff. When teams are as close as Villanova was in the RPI, that is a huge difference. Last year, they had the 9th best SOS in conference play. That just won't be the case in the new BE. If they are 29th, that's a slip of 20 spots. The ACC had all of 2 teams in the top 30 in conference SOS last year. That number is going to go way up.

(09-04-2013 01:00 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:15 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 10:46 AM)handdownmandown Wrote:  There's a simple fix to that.

Just take off one of the 200+ RPI cupcakes that we all play from the OOC schedule and stick in a 75-125 RPI team. In essence, you're trading a semi-challenging conference game (and an easy W OOC) for a semi-challenging OOC game, with an easy W in conference.

I still stand by my original point: an extra game against an atrocious league team is offset by every other team that would have lost to them being that much better in the RPI.

2 problems with doing a 75-125 rpi team ooc...
1- have to do home/home with those teams, costing you a home date every other year
or
2- have to do a buy type game hopefully, which will cost you however much it costs to buy the opponent.

some coaches are going to have to change the way they schedule OOC quite frankly.
last year- OOC SOS
Georgetown 181
Marqette 104
Villanova 167
Providence 265
St Johns 153
Seton Hall 237
DePaul 334

With the drop in the conference SOS(which will happen- last year the 7 C7 schools all had top 27 conference SOS- that just won't happen in the new Big East), teams are going to have to make up that difference OOC. What you were saying was going to have to happen regardless.

Now, compare this to what Butler, Xavier, and Creighton did sos:
Butler OOC 60 Conf 57
Xavier OOC 91 Conf 77
Creighton OOC 67 Conf 124

So, all 3 played better schedules OOC than any of the BE schools did.

It'll be interesting to see if the 3 newbies continue to schedule great OOC, and conversely, if the C7 starts scheduling better OOC.

This is really a non-issue. The conference schedule is strong enough.

Is it as strong as last year? I don't think so. Think last year, if the conference strength hadn't been as strong. Does Villanova or Cincy get into the tourney? Nope. Look at Nova. If they have this years schedule, they don't see Louisville or Syracuse at home. If they don't get either of those 2 wins, but instead wins over Butler or Creighton, their at large case is a lot different.

Also, you have to remember using last years numbers, the C7 schools went 60-66 in BE play. The 3 newbies went 33-17 in their conferences. Add that up and it's 93-83. Would need to remove 3 wins and add 7 losses to balance that out..

(for those wondering, the AAC- this years version went 89-81 in conference play last year. So, add 1 more win and 9 more losses. Next years version went 93-89 in conference play. Not sure how they will schedule next year, but 4 additional losses.)

Oh god Stever, just look at last years OOC compared to this years already.

Last year Duke pulled out last minute on St. John's. This year we have Wisconsin and Cuse. Next year we have Cuse and prob grab another big name.

You are such a negative nancy who has to twist arguments to make your point. Last year we didn't need a murders row in OOC because we had UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, and Cincy on our schedule. The thing is we also lose USF and Rutgers from or SOS. We also dodged a TCU bullet.

Think positive for once in your life. Seriously, you must be a blast at parties.

The thing is, playing USF and Rutgers once was better than now having to play Seton Hall and DePaul a 2nd time. Frankly, it's not even close.

Also, lets look at the St Johns schedule last year to this year
this year- St Johns does have the 2 games you bring up. They also have 5 games with teams RPI last year 230 or worse. The average team is RPI 171 or 178.79(depends on if they play Ole Miss or Ga Tech).

last year- St Johns had only 4 games with RPI 220 or worse Not as great of an upper tier, but not as many dogs. Avg team ranked 171.58 last year.

So, St John's didn't really upgrade the schedule at all. And, to your point about Duke, if they had played them last year, the schedule this year would have actually been WORSE than last year.

(09-03-2013 11:45 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 12:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Up to 68 with no more Big East(or AAC) schools listed.

19 tourney teams listed so far, so only 13 auto bids left. All 36 at large spots still up for grabs. 19 teams left to be mentioned that aren't tourney teams.

Now up to 67 and still no more Big East schools listed. There are at least 7 Big East schools ahead of Seton Hall, which means at least 70% of the conference will be in the top 76. That's real depth.

They have Xavier(#76) listed as #8 in the Big East. So, Butler is in the top 67 now.

(09-04-2013 01:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 01:00 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:15 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  2 problems with doing a 75-125 rpi team ooc...
1- have to do home/home with those teams, costing you a home date every other year
or
2- have to do a buy type game hopefully, which will cost you however much it costs to buy the opponent.

some coaches are going to have to change the way they schedule OOC quite frankly.
last year- OOC SOS
Georgetown 181
Marqette 104
Villanova 167
Providence 265
St Johns 153
Seton Hall 237
DePaul 334

With the drop in the conference SOS(which will happen- last year the 7 C7 schools all had top 27 conference SOS- that just won't happen in the new Big East), teams are going to have to make up that difference OOC. What you were saying was going to have to happen regardless.

Now, compare this to what Butler, Xavier, and Creighton did sos:
Butler OOC 60 Conf 57
Xavier OOC 91 Conf 77
Creighton OOC 67 Conf 124

So, all 3 played better schedules OOC than any of the BE schools did.

It'll be interesting to see if the 3 newbies continue to schedule great OOC, and conversely, if the C7 starts scheduling better OOC.

This is really a non-issue. The conference schedule is strong enough.

Is it as strong as last year? I don't think so. Think last year, if the conference strength hadn't been as strong. Does Villanova or Cincy get into the tourney? Nope. Look at Nova. If they have this years schedule, they don't see Louisville or Syracuse at home. If they don't get either of those 2 wins, but instead wins over Butler or Creighton, their at large case is a lot different.

Also, you have to remember using last years numbers, the C7 schools went 60-66 in BE play. The 3 newbies went 33-17 in their conferences. Add that up and it's 93-83. Would need to remove 3 wins and add 7 losses to balance that out..

(for those wondering, the AAC- this years version went 89-81 in conference play last year. So, add 1 more win and 9 more losses. Next years version went 93-89 in conference play. Not sure how they will schedule next year, but 4 additional losses.)

Oh god Stever, just look at last years OOC compared to this years already.

Last year Duke pulled out last minute on St. John's. This year we have Wisconsin and Cuse. Next year we have Cuse and prob grab another big name.

You are such a negative nancy who has to twist arguments to make your point. Last year we didn't need a murders row in OOC because we had UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, and Cincy on our schedule. The thing is we also lose USF and Rutgers from or SOS. We also dodged a TCU bullet.

Think positive for once in your life. Seriously, you must be a blast at parties.

The thing is, playing USF and Rutgers once was better than now having to play Seton Hall and DePaul a 2nd time. Frankly, it's not even close.

Also, lets look at the St Johns schedule last year to this year
this year- St Johns does have the 2 games you bring up. They also have 5 games with teams RPI last year 230 or worse. The average team is RPI 171 or 178.79(depends on if they play Ole Miss or Ga Tech).

last year- St Johns had only 4 games with RPI 220 or worse Not as great of an upper tier, but not as many dogs. Avg team ranked 171.58 last year.

So, St John's didn't really upgrade the schedule at all. And, to your point about Duke, if they had played them last year, the schedule this year would have actually been WORSE than last year.

Last year is not the same as this year. You don't know a teams RPI until the season actually starts. You are saying the OOC is worse but no one has played! We beat Florida Gulf Coast last year and at the beginning of the season you would have said thats a terrible team to play. The year before that we played Detroit Mercy. Not a flashy school looking at the schedule at the beginning of the year but they went and won the Horizon league (That had Butler in it). You don't know how a teams RPI will look until the games are actually being played.

Oh and some of those games are must play local games like St. Francis and Fordham.

In the last three years we have had Duke, UCLA, Arizona, Kentucky, Texas A&M, Wisconsin and Syracuse on the OOC but we need to schedule better. hahahahahaha

(09-04-2013 02:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 11:45 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 12:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Up to 68 with no more Big East(or AAC) schools listed.

19 tourney teams listed so far, so only 13 auto bids left. All 36 at large spots still up for grabs. 19 teams left to be mentioned that aren't tourney teams.

Now up to 67 and still no more Big East schools listed. There are at least 7 Big East schools ahead of Seton Hall, which means at least 70% of the conference will be in the top 76. That's real depth.

They have Xavier(#76) listed as #8 in the Big East. So, Butler is in the top 67 now.

Good point. Thanks for pointing that out and removing the suspense for me. I'll be interested in seeing how they justify that ranking.

La Tech #66, as CUSA #3. Southern Miss #4 at #77. Means that either Charlotte or ECU is their pick for #1 I would think. It's kind of cool to know to look for the conference ranking now to see who all would be left....

19 tourney teams listed, 13 auto bids left. 17 teams left to be mentioned that aren't tourney teams.

Like I said, with Butler, I think they had done their ranking back in June and are just posting it daily now. They still get ranked in the 80-100 range I'd guess if it was done now.

(09-04-2013 03:17 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 01:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 01:00 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:15 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  This is really a non-issue. The conference schedule is strong enough.

Is it as strong as last year? I don't think so. Think last year, if the conference strength hadn't been as strong. Does Villanova or Cincy get into the tourney? Nope. Look at Nova. If they have this years schedule, they don't see Louisville or Syracuse at home. If they don't get either of those 2 wins, but instead wins over Butler or Creighton, their at large case is a lot different.

Also, you have to remember using last years numbers, the C7 schools went 60-66 in BE play. The 3 newbies went 33-17 in their conferences. Add that up and it's 93-83. Would need to remove 3 wins and add 7 losses to balance that out..

(for those wondering, the AAC- this years version went 89-81 in conference play last year. So, add 1 more win and 9 more losses. Next years version went 93-89 in conference play. Not sure how they will schedule next year, but 4 additional losses.)

Oh god Stever, just look at last years OOC compared to this years already.

Last year Duke pulled out last minute on St. John's. This year we have Wisconsin and Cuse. Next year we have Cuse and prob grab another big name.

You are such a negative nancy who has to twist arguments to make your point. Last year we didn't need a murders row in OOC because we had UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, and Cincy on our schedule. The thing is we also lose USF and Rutgers from or SOS. We also dodged a TCU bullet.

Think positive for once in your life. Seriously, you must be a blast at parties.

The thing is, playing USF and Rutgers once was better than now having to play Seton Hall and DePaul a 2nd time. Frankly, it's not even close.

Also, lets look at the St Johns schedule last year to this year
this year- St Johns does have the 2 games you bring up. They also have 5 games with teams RPI last year 230 or worse. The average team is RPI 171 or 178.79(depends on if they play Ole Miss or Ga Tech).

last year- St Johns had only 4 games with RPI 220 or worse Not as great of an upper tier, but not as many dogs. Avg team ranked 171.58 last year.

So, St John's didn't really upgrade the schedule at all. And, to your point about Duke, if they had played them last year, the schedule this year would have actually been WORSE than last year.

Last year is not the same as this year. You don't know a teams RPI until the season actually starts. You are saying the OOC is worse but no one has played! We beat Florida Gulf Coast last year and at the beginning of the season you would have said thats a terrible team to play. The year before that we played Detroit Mercy. Not a flashy school looking at the schedule at the beginning of the year but they went and won the Horizon league (That had Butler in it). You don't know how a teams RPI will look until the games are actually being played.

Oh and some of those games are must play local games like St. Francis and Fordham.

In the last three years we have had Duke, UCLA, Arizona, Kentucky, Texas A&M, Wisconsin and Syracuse on the OOC but we need to schedule better. hahahahahaha

I do agree that some are local ones that you have to play, but there are the ones against like San Francisco and Longwood that are jokes.

I do think with schedules, you do have like 2 good ones per year, but considering there are 13 dates, having 2 really good one is I don't know if tarnished is the right word by having so many bad teams. I mean, when a third of your OOC schedule is against 220 or worse, that's not good. I mean, it's kind of like the old thing in school when you have 100 100 and 45. Your average is a 81 even though you had 2 top notch grades. Meanwhile you have 85 85 85 75, the average is 83 and better than the 1st example.

You bring up Detroit Mercy and Florida Gulf Coast. As good as esp FGC was, and as a Hoya fan I know it, they were still a 15 seed where it matters. That game didn't help St Johns much. Detroit I want to say was a 14 seed.

(09-04-2013 11:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 03:17 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 01:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 01:00 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Is it as strong as last year? I don't think so. Think last year, if the conference strength hadn't been as strong. Does Villanova or Cincy get into the tourney? Nope. Look at Nova. If they have this years schedule, they don't see Louisville or Syracuse at home. If they don't get either of those 2 wins, but instead wins over Butler or Creighton, their at large case is a lot different.

Also, you have to remember using last years numbers, the C7 schools went 60-66 in BE play. The 3 newbies went 33-17 in their conferences. Add that up and it's 93-83. Would need to remove 3 wins and add 7 losses to balance that out..

(for those wondering, the AAC- this years version went 89-81 in conference play last year. So, add 1 more win and 9 more losses. Next years version went 93-89 in conference play. Not sure how they will schedule next year, but 4 additional losses.)

Oh god Stever, just look at last years OOC compared to this years already.

Last year Duke pulled out last minute on St. John's. This year we have Wisconsin and Cuse. Next year we have Cuse and prob grab another big name.

You are such a negative nancy who has to twist arguments to make your point. Last year we didn't need a murders row in OOC because we had UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, and Cincy on our schedule. The thing is we also lose USF and Rutgers from or SOS. We also dodged a TCU bullet.

Think positive for once in your life. Seriously, you must be a blast at parties.

The thing is, playing USF and Rutgers once was better than now having to play Seton Hall and DePaul a 2nd time. Frankly, it's not even close.

Also, lets look at the St Johns schedule last year to this year
this year- St Johns does have the 2 games you bring up. They also have 5 games with teams RPI last year 230 or worse. The average team is RPI 171 or 178.79(depends on if they play Ole Miss or Ga Tech).

last year- St Johns had only 4 games with RPI 220 or worse Not as great of an upper tier, but not as many dogs. Avg team ranked 171.58 last year.

So, St John's didn't really upgrade the schedule at all. And, to your point about Duke, if they had played them last year, the schedule this year would have actually been WORSE than last year.

Last year is not the same as this year. You don't know a teams RPI until the season actually starts. You are saying the OOC is worse but no one has played! We beat Florida Gulf Coast last year and at the beginning of the season you would have said thats a terrible team to play. The year before that we played Detroit Mercy. Not a flashy school looking at the schedule at the beginning of the year but they went and won the Horizon league (That had Butler in it). You don't know how a teams RPI will look until the games are actually being played.

Oh and some of those games are must play local games like St. Francis and Fordham.

In the last three years we have had Duke, UCLA, Arizona, Kentucky, Texas A&M, Wisconsin and Syracuse on the OOC but we need to schedule better. hahahahahaha

I do agree that some are local ones that you have to play, but there are the ones against like San Francisco and Longwood that are jokes.

San Francisco was on the schedule because Lavins father coached there and they were dedicating the floor to him that night. This season is their return game.

St Francis and Fordham are bad- but they aren't that bad. St Francis was #209 last year, and Fordham was #230. It's a lot of the other teams.

oh, and to me, here is the problem. St Johns as you have brought up at least has some quality games. Their OOC SOS was #153. That's not awful, just nothing great.

Of the C7 schools, they were #2.
Marquette 104
St Johns 153
Villanova 167
Georgetown 181
Seton Hall 237
Providence 265
DePaul 334

so, St John's was the #2 team scheduling OOC.

It'll be interesting to see if the coaches long term do upgrade their SOS OOC. This year may not be a great example, only because when the split took place, a lot of the scheduling for this season was already in place.

I think looking at it, Providence may have. Boston College, Vandy in a tourney where they could see Maryland and/or La Salle. Kentucky, UMass.

End of the day, I do hope all the OOC schedules improve. Because when they do, we as fans win!

(09-05-2013 08:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  St Francis and Fordham are bad- but they aren't that bad. St Francis was #209 last year, and Fordham was #230. It's a lot of the other teams.

oh, and to me, here is the problem. St Johns as you have brought up at least has some quality games. Their OOC SOS was #153. That's not awful, just nothing great.

Of the C7 schools, they were #2.
Marquette 104
St Johns 153
Villanova 167
Georgetown 181
Seton Hall 237
Providence 265
DePaul 334

so, St John's was the #2 team scheduling OOC.

It'll be interesting to see if the coaches long term do upgrade their SOS OOC. This year may not be a great example, only because when the split took place, a lot of the scheduling for this season was already in place.

I think looking at it, Providence may have. Boston College, Vandy in a tourney where they could see Maryland and/or La Salle. Kentucky, UMass.

End of the day, I do hope all the OOC schedules improve. Because when they do, we as fans win!

Remember, MU lost a game with Ohio State and Georgetown lost a game with Florida because of aircraft carrier issues. Both would have had better strength of schedule rankings had the games actually been completed.

I do like the Hoya's OOC schedule as it's shaping up...
Oregon
Kansas
Michigan St
tourney where we could see either Charlotte/Kansas St, and then one of Michigan/Florida St/VCU

That's 5 quality OOC games. Not to mention Northeastern(#87), Wright St(#94), Rhode Island(#106). I think we could have of the 13 OOC games like 8 being against really good teams. That's definitely an upgrade! Wright St only tourney team so far(as a 14 seed), but still like 5-6 tourney teams isn't bad. Even if we were upset vs Northeastern in the tourney, we still likely see 1 other tourney team there, and potentially 2.

(09-05-2013 10:08 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 08:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  St Francis and Fordham are bad- but they aren't that bad. St Francis was #209 last year, and Fordham was #230. It's a lot of the other teams.

oh, and to me, here is the problem. St Johns as you have brought up at least has some quality games. Their OOC SOS was #153. That's not awful, just nothing great.

Of the C7 schools, they were #2.
Marquette 104
St Johns 153
Villanova 167
Georgetown 181
Seton Hall 237
Providence 265
DePaul 334

so, St John's was the #2 team scheduling OOC.

It'll be interesting to see if the coaches long term do upgrade their SOS OOC. This year may not be a great example, only because when the split took place, a lot of the scheduling for this season was already in place.

I think looking at it, Providence may have. Boston College, Vandy in a tourney where they could see Maryland and/or La Salle. Kentucky, UMass.

End of the day, I do hope all the OOC schedules improve. Because when they do, we as fans win!

Remember, MU lost a game with Ohio State and Georgetown lost a game with Florida because of aircraft carrier issues. Both would have had better strength of schedule rankings had the games actually been completed.

You are correct. I don't know just how much a game like that would be worth in the overall ratings, but I would think a good bit. Maybe 10-15 spots. Maybe the Hoya's get up into the 160ish range. That's still average.

At least I don't think we'll ever see that again.

just as a refrence:
AAC- last team mentinoed #64 SMU, #5 in AAC 4 in top 58
A10- last team mentioned #65 Richmond, #6 in A10 5 in top 58
ACC- last team mentioned #70 Ga Tech, #9 in ACC 8 in top 58
Big 12- last team mentioned #83 Oklahoma, #7 in B12 6 in top 58
Big East- last team mentioned #60 Providence, #7 in BE 6 in top 58
Big Ten- last team mentinoed #62 Illinois, #7 in Big Ten 6 in top 58
CUSA last team mentioned #61 Charlotte, #2 in CUSA 1 in top 58
Ivy - last team mentioned #114 Princeton, #2 in Ivy 1 in top 58
MVC last team mentioned #63 Indiana St, #2 in MVC 1 in top 58
MWC last team mentioned #81 Fresno St, #6 in MWC 5 in top 58
P12 last team mentioned #67 Cal, #7 in Pac 12 6 in top 58
SEC last team mentioned #59 Mississippi, #8 in SEC 7 in top 58
WCC last team mentioned #68 St Mary's, #3 in WCC 2 in top 58

SWAC Texas Southern 16 seed(PIG) #140
Atl Sun USC Upstate 16 seed(PIG) #138
MEAC Norfolk St 16 seed(PIG) #136
Big South Charleston Southern 16 seed(PIG) #134
Southland Northwestern St 16 seed #130
NEC Robert Morris 16 seed #127

Big West UC Irvine 15 seed #124
WAC New Mexico St 15 seed #121
Am East Vermont 15 seed, #108
Sun Belt Arkansas-Little Rock 15 seed #107

Southern Davidson 14 seed #105
Patriot Lehigh 14 seed #103
Horizon Wright St 14 seed #94
MAC Toledo 14 seed #89

Big Sky Weber St 13 seed #84
MAAC Manhattan 13 seed #80
CAA Drexel 13 seed #78
Summit Denver 13 seed #74

OVC Belmont 12 seed #73

updated the list to reflect how many teams are in the top 63 by conference. by my count, we have 19 champs already, so 13 to go. So, of the top 63, 49 get to go to the tourney(the 13 champs plus all 36 at larges). We'll see the true bubble starting to form in about 7-8 days. That starts getting into the 2nd last 4 out.