(07-26-2013 10:29 AM)panama Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 09:28 AM)MemTGRS Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 05:27 AM)JVWOwls86 Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 01:05 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Villanova could go to the MAC as a football only like UMass. That would be closer to the level of Villanova football. Post split now allows that to happen. MAC would request 4 basketball games every year with two at MAC schools like the arrangement with Temple and UMass was. MAC would be less cost as it wouldn't require a large stadium. They could use the Linc for big non-conference matchups like Syracuse, Penn State, Rutgers, Temple, UConn or Pitt. MAC games wouldn't need that. UMass should be playing their MAC games on campus not at Gillette. MAC dropped the ball with that demand.

Using Lincoln Financial Field was never an option. Eagles owner, Jeff Lurie, doesn't want Temple in "his" stadium. There was no way he'd allow another team in there tearing up the natural grass surface and ruining it for Sunday games.

I wondered about that. Just because Temple apparently agreed to waive their exclusive collegiate rights to LFF (sans Army/Navy game), they never seemed to note if the Eagles were on board.

Regarding "his" stadium, I'm guessing that like most professional sports teams, that the Eagles' financial commitment to LFF was minimal and mainly on the taxpayers? Yet, it becomes "his" stadium, right? Perhaps one of the biggest reasons why my interest in pro sports erodes every year.

Funny he considers it "his" since its "operated" by the Eagles but "owned" by the City of Philadelphia.

Regardless, Villanova is not in Philadelphia! Do you think the city of Philadelphia would put political pressure on the Eagles for a private school that isn't even located in the city of Philadelphia?

The western expansion only became palatable because that was where the best options where. In 2003 none of those schools remotely met that criteria. TCU had just started their resurgence, and they were even turned down in 2008 because it seemed too far our of the footprint (among other things). Using both current information, and info they reasonably could have known then, the only thing they could have done different in 2003 was add two more teams so that the BE wasn't stuck with only 7 conference games. It's easy to say they should have kept Temple and worked with them, but they were really, really bad then.

The BE should have invited Memphis, which would have been another strong basketball brand, and would have kept Memphis from sabatoging the 2004 BE season [shakes fist in disgust at Memphis]. The tenth team could have either been keeping Temple or moving up Nova then. But I do not there was fear of going past 16 basketball teams, which everyone laughed at and said was too many and too bloated (and now look, every conference wants 16 teams). So even I'm not sure that was feasible without hindsight.

(07-26-2013 10:55 AM)MemTGRS Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 10:29 AM)panama Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 09:28 AM)MemTGRS Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 05:27 AM)JVWOwls86 Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 01:05 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Villanova could go to the MAC as a football only like UMass. That would be closer to the level of Villanova football. Post split now allows that to happen. MAC would request 4 basketball games every year with two at MAC schools like the arrangement with Temple and UMass was. MAC would be less cost as it wouldn't require a large stadium. They could use the Linc for big non-conference matchups like Syracuse, Penn State, Rutgers, Temple, UConn or Pitt. MAC games wouldn't need that. UMass should be playing their MAC games on campus not at Gillette. MAC dropped the ball with that demand.

Using Lincoln Financial Field was never an option. Eagles owner, Jeff Lurie, doesn't want Temple in "his" stadium. There was no way he'd allow another team in there tearing up the natural grass surface and ruining it for Sunday games.

I wondered about that. Just because Temple apparently agreed to waive their exclusive collegiate rights to LFF (sans Army/Navy game), they never seemed to note if the Eagles were on board.

Regarding "his" stadium, I'm guessing that like most professional sports teams, that the Eagles' financial commitment to LFF was minimal and mainly on the taxpayers? Yet, it becomes "his" stadium, right? Perhaps one of the biggest reasons why my interest in pro sports erodes every year.

Funny he considers it "his" since its "operated" by the Eagles but "owned" by the City of Philadelphia.

Panama, I assume that the Georgia Dome will be imploded subsequent to the opening of the new Falcons' stadium in a few years? I guess the Panthers will benefit in playing in a new plush start of the art facility via the city granting yet another new facillity, this time to Arthur Blank.

I have never been inside the Georgia Dome, but it seems insane from the outside view of mine that a 20 year old stadium is already "outdated" and yet another huge taxpayers' burden. I try to avoid politics on sports message boards -- but since this is a case where public money is going to benefit millionaire players under a team owned by a billionaire, I will drop that hesitance.

But hey, I am happy that at least GSU can benefit.

Its "outdated" by the NFL's new standard of stadium building. Most people think its a great facility. The public money angle is not playing well here at all. Its only 20 years old and had a $300M renovation 7 years. They have to buy out two historic churches by Aug 1st to use the South Site (where the Dome is located), Stay tuned.

(07-26-2013 10:29 AM)panama Wrote:  Funny he considers it "his" since its "operated" by the Eagles but "owned" by the City of Philadelphia.

I am almost positive that Temple has guaranteed access to the Linc as part of the bonds issues by the state of Pennsylvania.

(07-26-2013 12:10 PM)panama Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 10:55 AM)MemTGRS Wrote:  I have never been inside the Georgia Dome, but it seems insane from the outside view of mine that a 20 year old stadium is already "outdated" and yet another huge taxpayers' burden. I try to avoid politics on sports message boards -- but since this is a case where public money is going to benefit millionaire players under a team owned by a billionaire, I will drop that hesitance.

Its "outdated" by the NFL's new standard of stadium building. Most people think its a great facility. The public money angle is not playing well here at all. Its only 20 years old and had a $300M renovation 7 years. They have to buy out two historic churches by Aug 1st to use the South Site (where the Dome is located), Stay tuned.

I was there for the NCAA tournament. Looks fine to me, but those stadiums that were built in the early 90's are the ones planned right before Camden Yards changed the game. The White Sox stadium was also like that. Though I did not know it was renovated 7 years ago, it looks largely the same to me.

However while it seems like a lot of money to ask the public to spend (I am not a fan of public subsidies for football stadiums in general, thought Domes are acceptable due to the ability of the city to make its money back) but I see where he is coming from. Atlanta is in the rotation for the Super Bowl and NCAA Final four, big money events for the City. Within a few years they likely do need to upgrade it to maintain their position, might as well do it now before the price goes up more.

Probably not fair, but every other facility in those rotations have done so except for Miami, which is something being held over their heads too

The horrible Nova invite idea is what pushed WVU and Pitt to start baling out. Nova sux.

(07-26-2013 12:21 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 12:10 PM)panama Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 10:55 AM)MemTGRS Wrote:  I have never been inside the Georgia Dome, but it seems insane from the outside view of mine that a 20 year old stadium is already "outdated" and yet another huge taxpayers' burden. I try to avoid politics on sports message boards -- but since this is a case where public money is going to benefit millionaire players under a team owned by a billionaire, I will drop that hesitance.

Its "outdated" by the NFL's new standard of stadium building. Most people think its a great facility. The public money angle is not playing well here at all. Its only 20 years old and had a $300M renovation 7 years. They have to buy out two historic churches by Aug 1st to use the South Site (where the Dome is located), Stay tuned.

I was there for the NCAA tournament. Looks fine to me, but those stadiums that were built in the early 90's are the ones planned right before Camden Yards changed the game. The White Sox stadium was also like that. Though I did not know it was renovated 7 years ago, it looks largely the same to me.

However while it seems like a lot of money to ask the public to spend (I am not a fan of public subsidies for football stadiums in general, thought Domes are acceptable due to the ability of the city to make its money back) but I see where he is coming from. Atlanta is in the rotation for the Super Bowl and NCAA Final four, big money events for the City. Within a few years they likely do need to upgrade it to maintain their position, might as well do it now before the price goes up more.

Probably not fair, but every other facility in those rotations have done so except for Miami, which is something being held over their heads too

Definitely not fair.

the tv money, if it was on par with the acc an the bic 12 didn't loose any teams, the teams may hav stayed.

inviting tcu, byu, boise st and having a western div all sports would have worked a split had to happen to accomodate the western div.


west
boise, tcu, pitt, wvu, ucf, byu

east
rutger, UConn, cinci, usf, Syracuse, louville

(07-25-2013 06:19 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

Nova was a terrible idea.

Agree, always was a bad idea!

Just bringing in TCU, Houston, UCF, and Memphis then forming a championship game in 2007,2008 would have saved this league.

(07-26-2013 03:07 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Just bringing in TCU, Houston, UCF, and Memphis then forming a championship game in 2007,2008 would have saved this league.

Don't kid yourself... The only thing it would have done is hasten the departure of the C7 and the others. We'd be right where we are today.

(07-26-2013 03:09 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 03:07 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Just bringing in TCU, Houston, UCF, and Memphis then forming a championship game in 2007,2008 would have saved this league.

Don't kid yourself... The only thing it would have done is hasten the departure of the C7 and the others. We'd be right where we are today.

The C7 should have left at that time as well. None of the FBS programs were making a move until the Pac12/B10 moved.

(07-25-2013 06:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 06:04 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  Villanova had major work to do on the facilities side to get to AAC standards.

I think the idea is that Villanova would get to share the Linc with Temple and the Eagles. (Because that's what the world needs--6 more Saturdays with 20,000 people at the Linc.)

Quote:They just wanted a free lunch. No more talks now that big money isn't involved.

Can't say you're wrong.

Thanks for the snide comment. Still '20,000' more than St. John's.

(07-26-2013 01:05 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Villanova could go to the MAC as a football only like UMass. That would be closer to the level of Villanova football. Post split now allows that to happen. MAC would request 4 basketball games every year with two at MAC schools like the arrangement with Temple and UMass was. MAC would be less cost as it wouldn't require a large stadium. They could use the Linc for big non-conference matchups like Syracuse, Penn State, Rutgers, Temple, UConn or Pitt. MAC games wouldn't need that. UMass should be playing their MAC games on campus not at Gillette. MAC dropped the ball with that demand.

The MAC had no choice since our press box did not meet FBS standards. We were voted into the MAC by the Council of Presidents in February and did not announce until April 19th because of the long negotiation with the Kraft Group. The contract is for 4 games 2014-16, but we are working on getting 3 games back on campus.

Well have new football facilities, but will still take some near or steady sellouts for plan expansion for the stadium. We have received several 7 figure donations recently including for the Jacobson Press-Skybox, which will be detached as the stadium does not meet current building code. We have no hand railings and the aisle will need to be 2 inches wider.

Will get there with time. Here is the recent picture of the new football facilities. Just the frame but will be ready for 2014.

If the C7 were willing to stay offering Nova FB again would not be that bad of an idea to salvage a larger TV contract because of the BB end. The only requirement for Nova would be adding enough temporary stands to get to the NCAA minimum requirement of 15, 000 in their end zones. They would have to make use of the 18k -expandable to 20k, then 25k, then 30k soccer stadium off campus or talk to Citizens Bank after the Phillies are done for the season. The Linc is out. Lauire and the Eagles don't want them. The didn't even want Temple but Randell rammed them down their throats because of the public local and state funds used in the project.

With Nova and G'town pushing to stay the rest of the C7 would have stayed.

NBE probably would have looked as follows when it started with all their teams. Nova would have entered with Navy in 2015 and Tulsa would be out. Schools are comparable in size but keeping the C7 and Nova would have given the NBE stronger BB in a heavy BB TV market.

BB:

St Johns, Seton Hall, Providence - NYC market
DePaul, Marquette - Chicago Market
G'Town - DC / Maryland market.

All Sports:
UConn
UCF
Temple
USF
Cinn
Nova
Tulane
Memphis
Houston
SMU

FB only;
Navy
ECU to start - Takes Temple's place in the A-10

Tulsa enters if they want to go too 14 for FB with another team that can add value.

Would have preferred this conference line up but the AAC as it stands now will do just as well in time and the C7 / BE will fade to A-10 status only surfacing for a short time during the March Madness Tournament. The NBE/ C7+ will only be viewed as a regional conference and will fade from the national seen with out FB to keep the conference relevant nationally from August through June.

If Villanova was going to come in, they HAD to play somewhere else --- Radnor Twp would never let them expand the stadium on campus. So they had to look elsewhere, but Temple had the Linc locked down and Franklin Field wasn't up to snuff when Temple played BE games there in the 90s. They weren't gonig to build a new stadium, so the only options left were CB Park (which the Phillies wouldn't have liked in Sept/October) or the soccer stadium, which could be expanded.

Honestly I don't think the Rutgers -- Pitt -- WVU block was solidly for it, but it had support from Syracuse, UL and USF (mostly because it would keep UCF out) without having to bring in another full member if Villanova upgraded, and it would have kept the basketball conference together. The upgrade plan was not good, and I don't think Villanova's heart was really in it.

Could Philly support two 1A teams? I'm not sure.

(07-27-2013 02:05 PM)panite Wrote:  If the C7 were willing to stay offering Nova FB again would not be that bad of an idea to salvage a larger TV contract because of the BB end.

The C7 were not keen on the idea, because that would have made them the C6 (ND was always their own different dynamic). They wanted Nova in their ranks because they were a powerful ally: they did not want them to become a football school. Remember UConn used ot be one of them before their football team moved up at the turn of the century, and once they became a football school, they started voting like a football school. They saw the same thing happening with Nova should they move up. That is why the other C7 teams were the ones who had to be convinced on the Nova front, NOT the football schools.

Thus that is why the notion that they were behind this is laughable. Nova became an option because the football teams wanted more members, but no one wanted to add more basketball members, and they were having trouble getting anyone to bite on a football only offer. Thus Syracuse came up with the idea of Nova.