We all know the non-football people will blame this on football.

http://www.wjhl.com/story/22904406/2013/...udget-cuts

(07-22-2013 05:25 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  We all know the non-football people will blame this on football.

http://www.wjhl.com/story/22904406/2013/...udget-cuts

I wonder if this is a state-wide issue

I believe that it is a statewide issue, at least I heard this a while back. A better economy will mean less enrollment. And frankly, Ive never understood the mentality that decreased enrollment is a bad thing IF it means that less poor achieving students are being admitted and/or the university is holding its standards for those who get in and dont take college seriously.

For what its worth, I think this is a longer term trend. With the increased cost of college, I dont expect those majors with relatively poor employment prospects to maintain a large student base.

It's not football to blame, but I'll tell you what - it will be met with rancor from certain parties if the hiring freeze dictated for all departments is overrided for football hires. I would like to know how the freeze does or does not apply to high profile positions across campus, including the assistant football coaches. I wonder if these will require some type of presidential action that would seem to contradict the freeze. Or, does the freeze only apply to future positions that would be vacated or become needed, as opposed to currently advertised openings?

(07-22-2013 06:50 PM)shampoo Wrote:  It's not football to blame, but I'll tell you what - it will be met with rancor from certain parties if the hiring freeze dictated for all departments is overrided for football hires. I would like to know how the freeze does or does not apply to high profile positions across campus, including the assistant football coaches. I wonder if these will require some type of presidential action that would seem to contradict the freeze. Or, does the freeze only apply to future positions that would be vacated or become needed, as opposed to currently advertised openings?

Football has its own budget separate from the main operating budget of the University and should not be affected in my opinion. From what I can gather is that the state is going to pay more money to schools with higher graduation rates. If this is so then instead of maintaining difficult course work and low graduation rates then just make courses easier and therefore easier to graduate and get the extra money. Hard to believe but I think that is what the state is saying?

Thats a very interesting question. As much as I support football, I cannot support hiring an assistant football coach or the coordinator of ticket sales and fan experience that are currently advertised if the professor positions that are also currently advertised are not filled. That would be legit criticism

(07-22-2013 06:58 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  Thats a very interesting question. As much as I support football, I cannot support hiring an assistant football coach or the coordinator of ticket sales and fan experience that are currently advertised if the professor positions that are also currently advertised are not filled. That would be legit criticism

My question is whether Austin Peay or Tenn Tech are having to cut football positions? Again, football budget is totally separate from the University's main operating budget.

(07-22-2013 07:02 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(07-22-2013 06:58 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  Thats a very interesting question. As much as I support football, I cannot support hiring an assistant football coach or the coordinator of ticket sales and fan experience that are currently advertised if the professor positions that are also currently advertised are not filled. That would be legit criticism

My question is whether Austin Peay or Tenn Tech are having to cut football positions? Again, football budget is totally separate from the University's main operating budget.

Nobody is having to cut positions, even in this case. There are no layoffs. But among a faculty and community that is already skeptical, hiring an assistant coach that will do very little for years ahead of hiring a professor is simply a bad message. Football is not to blame for this problem, but this could become a huge PR problem. And perception is as important as reality in these situations

(07-22-2013 07:10 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  

(07-22-2013 07:02 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(07-22-2013 06:58 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  Thats a very interesting question. As much as I support football, I cannot support hiring an assistant football coach or the coordinator of ticket sales and fan experience that are currently advertised if the professor positions that are also currently advertised are not filled. That would be legit criticism

My question is whether Austin Peay or Tenn Tech are having to cut football positions? Again, football budget is totally separate from the University's main operating budget.

Nobody is having to cut positions, even in this case. There are no layoffs. But among a faculty and community that is already skeptical, hiring an assistant coach that will do very little for years ahead of hiring a professor is simply a bad message. Football is not to blame for this problem, but this could become a huge PR problem. And perception is as important as reality in these situations

I understand what you are saying and can appreciate it but we only have the Head Coach so far and he is only going to hire two coordinators and that will be it for the rest of the year. Also the money for the coaches will come from the $125.00 fee and from donations and should not affect the regular budget. But I do see how a misinformed public can react and I also know that they will be misinformed by our local press. Sigh....

As for football, it is seen at EVERY institution that plays the game as an enrollment booster. From what little I have read, there is a current decline in the number of high school graduates nationwide. It is expected to pick back up after 2015. The last numbers that I remember seeing, ETSU had over 5,200 freshmen applicants, accepted around 85% of them, and enrolled less than 50% of those accepted. I believe that's called yield -- the number who actually enroll from the accepted group. I'm too lazy to see how this yield rate stacks up against ETSU's peers. I did notice that Western Carolina recently reported over 15,000 applicants, accepted a large number of them, but their yield was extremely low. So, this is a tricky business. Every school wants to increase its number of applicants for all the obvious reasons. Will Noland be able to put things in place to increase the number of applicants and, more importantly, the yield rate of those accepted? Of course only time will tell, but he's pushing football as one of the investments in this important endeavor.

Football will definitely increase enrollment but in due time I think. In the mean time it looks like the state wants the University to make the courses easier so a higher percentage of the students graduate. Then the state will give more money? So be it. It still has not a thing to do with football.

This would be a good time for a reorganization of the entire ETSU athletic department so as to end up with no additional total staff after a full football staff is assembled. It's always been football and basketball even as the past ETSU administration was in la la land. These two are taken care of first and the others are staffed (coaches and support staff) in the order of their contribution to the front porch appeal for the university. Even without this "hiring freeze", this needs to be done. But now, there's this excellent opportunity to do this as an equitable fiscal move.

(07-22-2013 06:58 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(07-22-2013 06:50 PM)shampoo Wrote:  It's not football to blame, but I'll tell you what - it will be met with rancor from certain parties if the hiring freeze dictated for all departments is overrided for football hires. I would like to know how the freeze does or does not apply to high profile positions across campus, including the assistant football coaches. I wonder if these will require some type of presidential action that would seem to contradict the freeze. Or, does the freeze only apply to future positions that would be vacated or become needed, as opposed to currently advertised openings?

Football has its own budget separate from the main operating budget of the University and should not be affected in my opinion. From what I can gather is that the state is going to pay more money to schools with higher graduation rates. If this is so then instead of maintaining difficult course work and low graduation rates then just make courses easier and therefore easier to graduate and get the extra money. Hard to believe but I think that is what the state is saying?

TN switched an "outcome based" funding model a few years ago. The state has a funding formula that includes a variety of criteria upon which funding is based.

For Universities that includes:
Students Accumulating 24hr
Students Accumulating 48hrs
Students Accumulating 72hrs
Research and Service Expenditures
Transfers Out with at Least 12 Credit Hours
Bachelor and Associate Degrees
Masters and Ed Specialist Degrees
Doctoral and Law Degrees
Degrees per 100 FTE
Six ‐ Year Graduation Rate

The message is to get kids to graduate and not rack up loan debt they can't pay back. The pendulum is just swinging back to the "college isn't for everyone" model, and it's not. You can make more money driving a forklift in a warehouse right now than alot of college degrees, including teaching. Same with OTR truck driving, roofing houses and HVAC repair. People just don't want to do the work because it's physical labor and long hours.

In other words, state universities are to make course work easier to make graduation easier and graduate a higher percentage. So be it.

(07-24-2013 03:57 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  In other words, state universities are to make course work easier to make graduation easier and graduate a higher percentage. So be it.

It's like reading Catch 22........

(07-24-2013 10:04 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The message is to get kids to graduate and not rack up loan debt they can't pay back. The pendulum is just swinging back to the "college isn't for everyone" model, and it's not. You can make more money driving a forklift in a warehouse right now than alot of college degrees, including teaching. Same with OTR truck driving, roofing houses and HVAC repair. People just don't want to do the work because it's physical labor and long hours.

As the culture continues to be dumbed down and lazy(ied) up.

This idea of watering down degree requirements to increase graduation rates will fail everybody and the country in the long run. Grade inflation has been an ongoing issue for at least the last twenty-five years and has already damaged the college degree. Look at all the on-line degree factories out there now. And, look at the student loan debt they're creating, which is rapidly growing toward the next financial crisis for the country. They are a real and present danger to American higher education and should be brought under strict control instead of political correctness control. Are traditional colleges and universities going to fall victim to the educational madness they're practicing? Back in the day it was considered a standard of excellence that only 40% who started college earned a degree. Reasonably rigid academic standards must be maintained. Of course in some fields like the health sciences, for example, standards have to be maintained or even enhanced going forward.

Regardless of what states promise, they continue to cut overall support to higher education because of budget restraints driven mainly by higher health care costs. And, it looks as if this new health care law will cost states much more for health care going forward. To survive as a nation, we must increase investment in higher education in order to lower or stabilize student cost and student debt.

For the critics of football, this is a golden opportunity for them to put up or shut up. For reasonable people, this is a golden opportunity to get behind the arts AND football as both will enhance the university.


http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/article/...er-at-etsu

the critics of football will not contribute to this- they do not want money to be spent on anything

(07-26-2013 09:34 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  the critics of football will not contribute to this- they do not want money to be spent on anything

Well they're morons...