No way do half the teams in this new super division finish .500 or below by only playing each other outside of conference slates. Far too much pride at stake, egos have to be soothed, and winning is the only elixir that student bodies understand.

I hope that the AAC and the MWC are also communicating on how to move forward. These two are in the middle of the P5 and G3. These schools have the finances to pay the stipend and they are also home to the most competative non-P5 programs. They have invested more and in turn have more to lose than many of the G3 schools. The stiffest objection and protest will come from these two conferences and their member schools. Its ride or die time. Mount up and fire every last bullet.

(07-22-2013 07:45 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  the only teams that deserved the 60 million were the teams that are getting the 60 million (USF, UCONN, and UC)...

I agree.

(07-22-2013 07:48 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  yup...the P5 schools see the AAC member just like they see every non P5 member. We are all the "have nots" now in their eyes.

Strangely enough the biggest loss for the AAC in this regard was Rutgers. They were the last original BCS member remaining in the AAC. Temple sort of fits, but they were kicked out. Strange as it sounds, had Rutgers still been around, being an original member, the AAC stood a better chance of inclusion.

(07-22-2013 08:54 PM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  You mentioned the lateral move but you failed to take note of the almost 7 million dollars Memphis gave up to make that move. I think that's the sore point. And a sore point that really isn't shared by the rest of the crew making the move over. Hence, the reason you might be hearing mostly from Memphis fans about this.

This is probably a debate better held between UC, USF, and UConn fans, but I would say that if it's such a raw deal, don't come. It's not like C-USA wouldn't take you back. But that's not what you want to do so you can't really complain. Also the "almost $7 million you gave up" mostly came from NCAA credits that would have been shared with the rest anyway, so it wasn't like you wrote a check from your own reserves to pay it off.

Also, had Memphis not ****** over the ENTIRE Big East in 2004, not only might the Big East still be around today as we knew it, but even if not the remaining schools would be in far better shape. So forgive us if no one cares about Memphis precious ego or how much money they spent to come up. There is a reason Memphis was not an original invitee, and the method in which your school ****** the Big East, and ****** Louisville and Cincinnati is a LARGE part of it.

(07-23-2013 09:26 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(07-22-2013 07:45 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  the only teams that deserved the 60 million were the teams that are getting the 60 million (USF, UCONN, and UC)...

WRONG WRONG WRONG. There were exit penalties in the big east for a reason. Those schools exchanged money for changes in those penalties after the new schools left their old league. The league that the new schools were invited to was completely different than the league they ended up in because those 3 schools were part of a classic bait and switch. There shouldn't have been any money to split, the old BE schools should have been forced to stay the 27 months like the contract stated.
Let's be clear, that $60 million is not for things that you did while you were in the BE. It's for letting the old BE schools out early.

So let me get this straight. schools that left C-USA with a one year notice are complaining because other schools did not give a 27 month notice? Really? Not to mention the precedent had already been established for buying out of the 27 month notice. No school was held to the 27 month notice, not TCU, WVU, not Syracuse, not Pitt, not ND, not Rutgers, not Louisville, not Boise St, and not San Diego State. And everyone happily collected the excess exit fees for it. It is also the bulk of those exit fees you say UCF, UConn, and Cincy did not earn.

Also, you need to learn contract law. the C7 schools were never bound by that 27 month rule due to contract language put in there by the FOOTBALL schools to protect themselves. Essentially you have no argument.

(07-23-2013 10:07 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Also, had Memphis not ****** over the ENTIRE Big East in 2004, not only might the Big East still be around today as we knew it, but even if not the remaining schools would be in far better shape. So forgive us if no one cares about Memphis precious ego or how much money they spent to come up. There is a reason Memphis was not an original invitee, and the method in which your school ****** the Big East, and ****** Louisville and Cincinnati is a LARGE part of it.

Could you elaborate on this? I've never heard about this situation at all and you've piqued my curiousity.

I think Memphis has every right to be pissed. They gave up their credits and agreed to the BE almost exclusively with the idea that the C7 would remain, they are a top20 Bball program and without the compensation of UConn, Cincy and USF, they have a major grope IMO. Frankly they might be better off in the MWC at this point, not sure why there is so much more talk about the Texas schools heading out west but not Memphis. If UConn and Cincy escape, then things will get dicey as the MWC is far more stable mostly because they do not have top teams with serious P5 potential.

I have lost a lot of confidence in the AAC and think the group speak is just fluff. We either perform very well and thus become the prime place for other leagues to steal teams or we stink and become irrelevant. Sorry for the negativity. Obviously as a Tulane fan I am thrilled just escape the CBelt no matter what the end outcome for the AAC. Finally, I have very little confidence in Aresco navigating this ship. He has yet to produce any positive results, perhaps not his fault, but nothing positive.

(07-23-2013 10:07 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-22-2013 08:54 PM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  You mentioned the lateral move but you failed to take note of the almost 7 million dollars Memphis gave up to make that move. I think that's the sore point. And a sore point that really isn't shared by the rest of the crew making the move over. Hence, the reason you might be hearing mostly from Memphis fans about this.

This is probably a debate better held between UC, USF, and UConn fans, but I would say that if it's such a raw deal, don't come. It's not like C-USA wouldn't take you back. But that's not what you want to do so you can't really complain. Also the "almost $7 million you gave up" mostly came from NCAA credits that would have been shared with the rest anyway, so it wasn't like you wrote a check from your own reserves to pay it off...

Well that's not true. The 'almost' 7 million was Memphis' unshared portion of the NCAA credits. Those credits are now left behind in CUSA to be shared by the new, incoming members of CUSA. Which, BTW, is how it's almost always done in conference moves --- I say can only say 'almost always' since we now have the Big East / AAC example.

(07-23-2013 10:12 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:07 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Also, had Memphis not ****** over the ENTIRE Big East in 2004, not only might the Big East still be around today as we knew it, but even if not the remaining schools would be in far better shape. So forgive us if no one cares about Memphis precious ego or how much money they spent to come up. There is a reason Memphis was not an original invitee, and the method in which your school ****** the Big East, and ****** Louisville and Cincinnati is a LARGE part of it.

Could you elaborate on this? I've never heard about this situation at all and you've piqued my curiousity.

Jus an educated guess --- but I think he's pissed because Memphis (and others) wouldn't allow Louisville out of their contract with CUSA. Louisville had the option of continuing to play Memphis (which Pitino didn't want to do citing their tough BIg East schedule) or paying CUSA a million dollars. They paid the million rather than schedule Memphis. Cincinnati, on the other hand, elected to play the Tigers.

(07-23-2013 10:19 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  I think Memphis has every right to be pissed. They gave up their credits and agreed to the BE almost exclusively with the idea that the C7 would remain, they are a top20 Bball program and without the compensation of UConn, Cincy and USF, they have a major grope IMO. Frankly they might be better off in the MWC at this point, not sure why there is so much more talk about the Texas schools heading out west but not Memphis. If UConn and Cincy escape, then things will get dicey as the MWC is far more stable mostly because they do not have top teams with serious P5 potential...

True --- and the former 'suggestion' that if we don't like it than go back to whatever CUSA is now assumes that's right a real option or something. There are no real options.

(07-22-2013 09:54 PM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  Intersting as it relates to basketball schools ->

[i]The other leverage is the NCAA men's basketball tournament. The public loves Cinderella, but the tournament, which under its current contract generates an average of $770 million a year in television rights fees, probably would draw almost as much if the money schools formed their own division and only played one another in their championship. We love when Florida Gulf Coast wins, but we tune in to see Kansas, Ohio State and Kentucky. The have-nots don't want to lose their access to that cash cow, which is why allowing the money leagues to form a separate football subdivision makes more sense.

I would not agree with that at all. The driving force behind the popularity of the NCAA tournament are brackets and cinderellas. They are what make the tournament and are by far the best free publicity any sporting event has ever had, and probably ranks in the top ten globally in terms of best free marketing one can get. but you don't have to take my word for it, look at the ratings.

Round_____Games__Viewers________ Average_________ By weekend
First Four__4______4,400,000_______1,100,000_______ 4,400,000
1st round _32_____65,360,000_______2,042,500
2nd round_16_____81,200,000_______5,075,000_______ 146,560,000
sweet 16__8______47,100,000_______5,887,500
Elite Eight_4______43,900,000_______10,975,000_______91,000,000
Final Four__2______31,600,000_______15,800,000
Nat'l Champ_1_____23,400,000_______23,400,000_______55,000,000


Even though the average viewership goes up, there are more total viewers the first weekend than there are for the rest of the tournament. Further these are valuable viewers because they are daytime viewers, daytime male viewers, that you don't get with any other event save for maybe the Master's, and even then that is on a much, much smaller scale. Very valuable for advertisers and CBS and Turner can charge a premium for them. I'd be willing to bet that a NCAA tournament without the smaller schools, and replaced with 10 bubble schools, and 20 schools with losing records (actually if they are only playing other P5 schools, 50% of the schools would have losing records) would generate about half the current tourney, if that. And since the P5 schools already get 50% of the NCAA tournament revenue, when you look at total distributions, that is a lose/lose proposition.

(07-23-2013 10:12 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:07 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Also, had Memphis not ****** over the ENTIRE Big East in 2004, not only might the Big East still be around today as we knew it, but even if not the remaining schools would be in far better shape. So forgive us if no one cares about Memphis precious ego or how much money they spent to come up. There is a reason Memphis was not an original invitee, and the method in which your school ****** the Big East, and ****** Louisville and Cincinnati is a LARGE part of it.

Could you elaborate on this? I've never heard about this situation at all and you've piqued my curiousity.

It was somewhat mentioned above by Tiger City, but not fully addressed. Memphis sued Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF to ensure they could not leave for the Big East in 2004. If you'll remember that was the year that Miami and Virginia Tech left, and the BE was in a hole. Now the Big East was already in a bad spot reputation wise because of those two schools leaving, but hoped adding Louisville and Cincinnati would help soften the blow in 2004. Then Memphis decided they wouldn't allow that, and would not let them leave early. This forced the BE to make UConn come up to BCS competition a year earlier than planned (who did pretty well for themselves), and keeping Temple on for another year longer than planned. This, combined with no elite teams, or really even above average team, irreperably harmed the BE 2004 when the seven team league had a 4 way tie for first, with 4 very average teams, with one (Pitt) going to the BCS and losing to Utah. The Big East never recovered from that year perception-wise, and was why Louisville, West Virginia, and Rutgers faced so much grief in 2006 when all three were unbeaten. Now had the Big East been able to add Louisville, who would clearly be the best team in the league, and was a top ten team, Cincinnati, who was better than several of the teams in the Big East that year, and USF (not really good that year, but would have collected a few losses from the likes of Pitt and WVU to make them look better) and 2004 would never have looked like the down year it was made to be. And the 2005 season, complete with how WVU finished off the year would have furthered the rebuilding of the reputation, and 2006 would have been our coronation, as opposed to being the season where every talking head developed the habint of trashing the Big East because they were on the verge of crashing the BCS Title game, a habit that NEVER died and is still going on.

There are leadership issues we can look back to, but nearly every hit the Big East took for on the field performance from 2004-2010 can directly be traced to that event. So forgive me if UofL fans, or UCF, Cincinnati, or UConn fans, have little sympathy for the plight of the University of Memphis. Thanks Memphis!

(07-23-2013 10:50 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:12 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:07 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Also, had Memphis not ****** over the ENTIRE Big East in 2004, not only might the Big East still be around today as we knew it, but even if not the remaining schools would be in far better shape. So forgive us if no one cares about Memphis precious ego or how much money they spent to come up. There is a reason Memphis was not an original invitee, and the method in which your school ****** the Big East, and ****** Louisville and Cincinnati is a LARGE part of it.

Could you elaborate on this? I've never heard about this situation at all and you've piqued my curiousity.

It was somewhat mentioned before, but not elaborated in. Memphis sued Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF to ensure they could not leave for the Big East in 2004. If you'll remember that was the year that Miami and Virginia Tech left. Now the Big East was already in a bad spot reputation wise because of those two schools leaving. It was irreperably harmed in 2004 when the seven team league had a 4 way tie for first, with 4 very average teams, with one (Pitt) going to the BCS and losing to Utah. The Big East never recovered from that. Now had the Big East been able to add Louisville, who was clearly the best team, Cincinnati, who was better than several of the teams ion the Big East that year, and USF (not really good that year, but would have collected a few losses from the likes of Pitt and WVU to make them look better) and 2004 would never have looked like the down year it was made to be, and the 2005 and 2006 seasons the Big East had that did it's best to get back it's reputation, would have actually propped up the league somewhat.

There are leadership issues we can look back to, but nearly every hit the Big East took for on the field performance from 2004-2010 can directly be traced to that event. So forgive me if UofL fans, or UCF, Cincinnati, or UConn fans, have little sympathy for the plight of the University of Memphis.

Oh my dear god. Now Memphis is responsible for the demise of the Big East.

(07-23-2013 10:12 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:07 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Also, had Memphis not ****** over the ENTIRE Big East in 2004, not only might the Big East still be around today as we knew it, but even if not the remaining schools would be in far better shape. So forgive us if no one cares about Memphis precious ego or how much money they spent to come up. There is a reason Memphis was not an original invitee, and the method in which your school ****** the Big East, and ****** Louisville and Cincinnati is a LARGE part of it.

Could you elaborate on this? I've never heard about this situation at all and you've piqued my curiousity.

Short version. Louisville wanted to simply walk away from their agreement with CUSA and the conference members said no. Sort of like UConn, UCF, and Cincinnati did with Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, Rutgers, and the Big East basketball schools.

By conference members you mean Memphis. The rest were perfectly fine with a check. Also UConn, USF, and Cincy did no such thing. Those schools all left at the time they wanted to (Syraucse and Pitt never tried to leave for the 2012 season, only WVU did that). Louisville Cincy, and USF gave CUS the same amount of notice that Miami and VPI gave to the Big East, minus about 2 weeks or so.

(07-23-2013 10:56 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:50 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:12 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:07 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Also, had Memphis not ****** over the ENTIRE Big East in 2004, not only might the Big East still be around today as we knew it, but even if not the remaining schools would be in far better shape. So forgive us if no one cares about Memphis precious ego or how much money they spent to come up. There is a reason Memphis was not an original invitee, and the method in which your school ****** the Big East, and ****** Louisville and Cincinnati is a LARGE part of it.

Could you elaborate on this? I've never heard about this situation at all and you've piqued my curiousity.

It was somewhat mentioned before, but not elaborated in. Memphis sued Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF to ensure they could not leave for the Big East in 2004. If you'll remember that was the year that Miami and Virginia Tech left. Now the Big East was already in a bad spot reputation wise because of those two schools leaving. It was irreperably harmed in 2004 when the seven team league had a 4 way tie for first, with 4 very average teams, with one (Pitt) going to the BCS and losing to Utah. The Big East never recovered from that. Now had the Big East been able to add Louisville, who was clearly the best team, Cincinnati, who was better than several of the teams ion the Big East that year, and USF (not really good that year, but would have collected a few losses from the likes of Pitt and WVU to make them look better) and 2004 would never have looked like the down year it was made to be, and the 2005 and 2006 seasons the Big East had that did it's best to get back it's reputation, would have actually propped up the league somewhat.

There are leadership issues we can look back to, but nearly every hit the Big East took for on the field performance from 2004-2010 can directly be traced to that event. So forgive me if UofL fans, or UCF, Cincinnati, or UConn fans, have little sympathy for the plight of the University of Memphis.

Oh my dear god. Now Memphis is responsible for the demise of the Big East.

Eh, why not, this board hates us anyway, they might as well blame Memphis for everything. An asteroid didn't kill the dinosaurs, the University of Memphis did.

(07-23-2013 10:56 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  Oh my dear god. Now Memphis is responsible for the demise of the Big East.

Phew, and all this time I thought it was us darn basketball schools. Darn Catholic guilt.

So Memphis is not only responsible for bringing down the Big East --- but, contrary to the wishes of all other CUSA members, we used the power of CUSA to do it? We're the fracking Evil Empire!

(07-23-2013 11:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 10:56 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  Oh my dear god. Now Memphis is responsible for the demise of the Big East.

Phew, and all this time I thought it was us darn basketball schools. Darn Catholic guilt.

You're not off the hook. I still blame you guys.

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