Not much to talk about during the off season but I know there are a few of you posters that come here.

Anyways my question is, If the AAC and the Big East offered an invitation, which conference would you guys prefer to go to and why? I was reading the AAC board and they (most) seem to be all on board with you guys over there. This is mostly for VCU since I figured SLU and Dayton would be more inclined to go with the BE. That being said, for you St Louis and Dayton guys, if you were not given an invite to the BE but the AAC came calling, would you guys take it?

I think SLU would align with the Big East because of the Catholic leaning. AAC would be an interesting call. SLU may pass on it because of the 2M exit fee plus forfeiting their credits. It really would depend on the landscape at the time though. If VCU were to leave for the AAC, and Dayton/Richmond to the Big East, SLU would probably abandon the A-10.

So it's kind of a conditional answer. If the A-10 is further decimated, it makes the chance of SLU leaving go way up.

I believe UD would rather be in BE but if not possible AAC is still better than A10 right now. How any of the three will fare in long run I don't know but see AAC being least likely to stick together

BE and AAC are upgrades with other A10 departures and BE being mostly small private catholic schools is what UD needs to try to align with

I'd be shocked if any of those 3 schools would not prefer BE as their first choice.

There is a VCU guy who thinks the A-10 is a better fit for an East-Coast-based, non-football school than the AAC. I can (sort of) see that, but just barely.

That's me. LOL.

A-10 at 360K/year with a 75-25 NCAA revenue split to the school earning the shares.

AAC at 400k/year (20% of a full share for bball school), with a 8.333% equal split for NCAA revenue 12 ways.

The A-10 is a much more geographically coherent conference with St. Joe's La Salle, George Washington, George Mason, VCU, Richmond, and Davidson all in the same mid-atlantic region. Lots of room for rivalries with decent (admittedly not spectacular) basketball schools.

The only geographical rival in the AAC is an awful ECU basketball program that has made strides in recent years, but still historically awful.

The A-10 is basketball-centric. The AAC is football centric.

The A-10 looks to VCU as a leader and one of the big dogs that will shape the future of the conference. The AAC will likely view VCU as the redheaded stepchild with no football. At best we're a tolerable inconvenience as long as we're earning NCAA shares, and anything less than that makes us an albatross that everyone wants to shed.

Go where they love you, not where they like you, tolerate you, and definitely not where they flat-out dislike you.

The A-10 is no major conference but it fits VCU pretty well all things considered. An A-10 with VCU, George Mason, Davidson, St. Joe's, La Salle, George Washington, UMass, Rhode Island and one of SLU, Dayton, and Richmond isn't a world-beating conference, but it's basketball-centric, and there's good reason to believe it'll be multi-bid in the future.

That's not a bad place to be if you're VCU.

I truly don't think the AAC or Big East give 2 you-know-what's about VCU, and that's okay. We'll be fine where we are. We've been doing fine the last 10 years or so as a plucky mid-major. I'm not opposed to continuing to build our profile in the A-10. It's a place where we have the opportunity and ability to grow while realistically expecting to compete for championships in all our sports.

I don't think I'm crazy to think that a 14 (or 12) member basketball conference primarily situated along the East Coast is a better fit for VCU than a 11 member football conference (+VCU) that spans Orlando to Houston, to Memphis to Connecticut so we can get 40K more in TV revenue and maybe 3-4 more national TV games. That's also while taking a huge cut in NCAA tournament revenue, which is the primary revenue source for a basketball school when your media deal is in the 300-400K for basketball schools like in the A-10 and AAC. That 75-25 NCAA split in the A-10 blows away the extra 40K you earn in the AAC media deal.

Just my take. Maybe I'm nuts, but I don't think so, and I know a good number of people in the VCU AD who agree with me there.

VCUfan, I definitely don't think you're crazy or nuts. I do think you are being overly precious about the dollar-amounts in the respective media-arrangements. These things change frequently even while the "current" contract is still in progress.

I can respect a non-football school wanting to compete in a non-football conference. The agonies of the Big East Conference over the last year and really the last 20 years speaks to the logic of that. And if that is VCU's ultimate choice for itself I would never presume to say it was making a mistake. But as you've said before yourself, it really is about the Benjamins. It is difficult for me to believe that VCU (or anyone) would get more of those in the A-10 than the AAC. Time will tell.

(07-21-2013 01:30 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  VCUfan, I definitely don't think you're crazy or nuts. I do think you are being overly precious about the dollar-amounts in the respective media-arrangements. These things change frequently even while the "current" contract is still in progress.

I can respect a non-football school wanting to compete in a non-football conference. The agonies of the Big East Conference over the last year and really the last 20 years speaks to the logic of that. And if that is VCU's ultimate choice for itself I would never presume to say it was making a mistake. But as you've said before yourself, it really is about the Benjamins. It is difficult for me to believe that VCU (or anyone) would get more of those in the A-10 than the AAC. Time will tell.

Just curious, Georgian. What makes you optimistic about the financial prospects of the AAC in the future?

(07-21-2013 01:30 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  VCUfan, I definitely don't think you're crazy or nuts. I do think you are being overly precious about the dollar-amounts in the respective media-arrangements. These things change frequently even while the "current" contract is still in progress.

I can respect a non-football school wanting to compete in a non-football conference. The agonies of the Big East Conference over the last year and really the last 20 years speaks to the logic of that. And if that is VCU's ultimate choice for itself I would never presume to say it was making a mistake. But as you've said before yourself, it really is about the Benjamins. It is difficult for me to believe that VCU (or anyone) would get more of those in the A-10 than the AAC. Time will tell.

The numbers speak for themselves. The contracts and revenue splits are what they are.

If VCU isn't getting NCAA bids in the A-10, the AAC offers a little bit more in the way of media revenue (40K which is so minimal in an athletic budget it's negligible, esp. when considering much higher travel in the AAC). If VCU is keeping the status quo and making NCAA tournaments in the A-10, our NCAA revenue model has us earning far more money than we ever could in the AAC with a 12-way split. Unfortunately, your media deal (and the A-10's) gives us peanuts compared to NCAA revenue shares. A-10 lets us keep the lion's share of ours. That's a huge deal for us since there's no money from media in either league really.

The AAC has potential, but it's hardly a premier basketball conference after Louisville goes. UConn is the only true national power and they're replacing a hall of famer with a first-time head coach. Memphis has done little of relevance nationally with Pastner and their stretch under Calipari certainly isn't looked at as being squeaky clean either.

When the contracts change, we can talk again. As it stands, there isn't much, if any upside to the AAC for VCU. I get TV exposure, that's a valid argument, but a secondary one. More money in the AAC isn't a valid argument, because it's not there unless something changes. Until then, no thanks. $ is the name of the game in realignment and until the contract increases a good amount, I doubt VCU would seriously be interested. The A-10 really isn't that bad to have to jump to that situation.

(07-21-2013 04:13 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Just curious, Georgian. What makes you optimistic about the financial prospects of the AAC in the future?

Well, let's define "optimistic", first. I mean, I don't think the American will Ever get the same kind of $$$ that the P5 leagues get. But in MBB, I definitely think the American will get as much (or very, very close to that) as the Big East, and a whole lot more than any other non-P5 league, such as the A-10. Same in football: never a match for the P5 leagues, but significantly more than anyone else, including the Mtn.

As to why I feel that will be the case? Well, basically I just think the AAC's membership will have the competitiveness on the field/court and the support/interest from fans and media to earn a bigger cut than the other non-P5 leagues. We will see what the future holds.

The question for VCU,or any school, is : Which group to they feel more of a kinship with? If they feel they match better with or have more in common with the a10 or BE vs AAC then, they should strive to belong to that league

(07-21-2013 09:28 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  The question for VCU,or any school, is : Which group to they feel more of a kinship with? If they feel they match better with or have more in common with the a10 or BE vs AAC then, they should strive to belong to that league

Very good point. The Institutional Fit criteria is the wild card in every conference realignment scenario till the end of time. That said, it didn't work for SLU this time through.

The A-10 as a mixed institutional profile, east coast league with a basketball focus is probably the league with which VCU fits best. VCU is poised to be the leader and primary beneficiary of the A-10 revenue system, especially if SLU leaves for the Big East.

The AAC is a football league and will continue to be a football league. VCU would be hypothetically the only basketball-only school. We saw how that stuff worked out already and there isn't the kind of money the Big East bball schools had in the old league to make it tolerable like it was back then. We'd basically be whoring ourselves to the AAC so they can get more NCAA units, most of which we'll never actually benefit from. Institutionally, great fit. Athletics-wise, not at at all. Different focuses and VCU becomes a huge outlier as far as athletics vision/priority with way less revenue then anyone else in the league (and very similar to the A-10 w/o the NCAA revenue upside or influence in the league). Giving up being the decision-maker (or close to it) in the A-10 to being #12 in influence in the AAC for 40K more, a couple more national TV games, and less NCAA money doesn't seem prudent.

The Big East has a similar problem for VCU. Institutionally, VCU is the complete opposite of everyone else as a large state school. We're not private, and it's clear that's a big part of the Big East's identity now. Athletically, our interests are aligned as a basketball school. However it seems the public school stigma is too much to overcome. I understand that, and the Big East has every right to choose whoever they want to associate with. The money in the Big East obviously blows away the AAC in every conceivable way which compensates for a lot of the profile incongruence. If offered (which I doubt happens), I don't see how VCU would turn it down simply because the money is too good not to.

As far as the best fit, I still think it's the A-10. Money makes the world go 'round though.

The AAC doesn't offer enough of an upward mobile opportunity financially for VCU. The Big East obviously will. Neither are too crazy about VCU for several reasons, and that's okay. We don't really fit profile-wise with other Big East schools and they don't care much for associating with us, and the AAC schools want us just to shore up basketball while primarily focusing on football which basically makes us a 2nd-class citizen without at least a better pay check to swallow our pride. Neither are really ideal situations. Both leagues are far-flung with few real geographical rivals for VCU.

The A-10 is a place that loves having us with a ton of rivals in the mid-atlantic and a basketball-focus that rewards basketball schools for success, and in this case it seems better to be loved than tolerated/despised.

(07-21-2013 09:18 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 04:13 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Just curious, Georgian. What makes you optimistic about the financial prospects of the AAC in the future?

Well, let's define "optimistic", first. I mean, I don't think the American will Ever get the same kind of $$$ that the P5 leagues get. But in MBB, I definitely think the American will get as much (or very, very close to that) as the Big East, and a whole lot more than any other non-P5 league, such as the A-10. Same in football: never a match for the P5 leagues, but significantly more than anyone else, including the Mtn.

As to why I feel that will be the case? Well, basically I just think the AAC's membership will have the competitiveness on the field/court and the support/interest from fans and media to earn a bigger cut than the other non-P5 leagues. We will see what the future holds.

I don't think thats going to happen. The Big East gets twice as much for just bball that the AAC gets for bball AND fb. I don't ever see the AAC giving a bball member as much as what the Big East is getting now. They would be admitting that the TV contract is 75/25 in the bball favor.

I don't see why the BE needs to expand...10 is the perfect number for a b-ball only conference...plus they have the contract they want...and the championship site they want.

If the AAC wanted a basketball only to pair with Navy Football...Wichita State should be the target as the MVC has been decimated by the defection of Creighton to the BE...WSU would have to listen if the AAC came calling.

VCU seems content in the A-10.

(07-21-2013 09:18 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 04:13 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Just curious, Georgian. What makes you optimistic about the financial prospects of the AAC in the future?

Well, let's define "optimistic", first. I mean, I don't think the American will Ever get the same kind of $$$ that the P5 leagues get. But in MBB, I definitely think the American will get as much (or very, very close to that) as the Big East, and a whole lot more than any other non-P5 league, such as the A-10. Same in football: never a match for the P5 leagues, but significantly more than anyone else, including the Mtn.

As to why I feel that will be the case? Well, basically I just think the AAC's membership will have the competitiveness on the field/court and the support/interest from fans and media to earn a bigger cut than the other non-P5 leagues. We will see what the future holds.

What the Big East has over the AAC as far as the networks are concerned is markets. The Big East gets the networks into NYC, the nation's biggest market and a market that has no P5 program in it on the east side of the Hudson River, the NY side. It also gets them into Chicago, Washington, and other big northern cities where they can compete in contested markets.

Ini contrast, the AAC offers a lot of redundancy in markets that the networks already have locked up with the ACC, the SEC, and the Big XII?

The other thing that theBig East has going for is that every single program in the league has experienced success on the national level at some point in the school's history. When Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, and DePaul bounce back from their current down cycles, their success becomes a revival of past successes. That name recognition becomes much more marketable for the networks than the vast majority of basketball programs in the AAC which have no name recognition in the sport.

Even in football, which is where most of the AAC programs are planting their flags, who has name recognition in the sport even based on historic rather than recent accomplishments? SMU? Who else? Where are the brand names for the networks to market?

M

(07-22-2013 02:29 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I don't see why the BE needs to expand...10 is the perfect number for a b-ball only conference...plus they have the contract they want...and the championship site they want.

If the AAC wanted a basketball only to pair with Navy Football...Wichita State should be the target as the MVC has been decimated by the defection of Creighton to the BE...WSU would have to listen if the AAC came calling.

VCU seems content in the A-10.

The reason that VCU is so attractive to the Big East is not just because tehy have strong basketball but also because they maintain the conference's visibility in the greater DC market when Navy's sports other than football are playing in the Patriot League. Perfect complement to Navy football.

Wichita State offers strong basketball, which is nice and is important for the league, but they don't support an existing market, their own market is small, and they extend the conference further into Big XII territory where the conference is guaranteed to always have 2nd tier status.

The AAC has a shot at competing in the Northeast where there are still open market niches to be developed, but UConn and Temple need help. They can't do it by themselves. They need more rivalries within the region. VCU would be a big step in that direction.

I will be mocked for this but the sac should just go for UMass and the university of new york aka Buffalo. Shores up northeastern market with 2 large state school that on paper have great potential. The perception of the league wouldnt be much worse than it is now so why not create an identity?

UD fan.

Prefer Big East but the American would work just as well. I'm pretty sure Dayton would jump at the opportunity.

(07-24-2013 08:52 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  I will be mocked for this but the sac should just go for UMass and the university of new york aka Buffalo. Shores up northeastern market with 2 large state school that on paper have great potential. The perception of the league wouldnt be much worse than it is now so why not create an identity?

sac = aac?

For VCU the financial upside just isn't there in the AAC unless their TV contract improves significantly or the AAC establishes itself as a major basketball conference with several teams making NCAA runs to make a 12-way split more profitable for VCU in the AAC than a 75-25 split is for VCU in the A-10.

That could happen, but VCU won't consider it until that is shown to be the case. The risk is too high going to a much more far-flung football conference in which VCU would be a second-class citizen as the only school without football. The AAC is clearly being differentiated from the Power 5 conferences with bowls, TV exposure, and TV money. At this point, it's becoming more clear that it would just be a lateral move basketball-wise. One tweener conference to another. Much like moving from C-USA to the A-10 or vice versa would have been in the past.

That's not surprising when the vast majority of the AAC consist of former C-USA schools.