(06-05-2013 03:38 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 03:25 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  ECU only had a minimal drop in attendance this past year and that only was due to the two previous consecutive losing seasons (2010-11) right after 4 consecutive winning seasons (2006-09). A lot of those non-sellouts were due to a slow start this past year as well.

We also were playing SMU and Tulane already & now we are merely dropping UAB, Rice and Utep amongst others. We still will not be playing west division members every year anyway. Believe it or not, there actually will be more demand for playing Temple, UConn, Navy, UC, & USF. First, simply because many are new foes to us and that intrinsically means more interest/intrigue & secondly, and more importantly, these new conference mates are at least marginally (if not substantially) better quality opponents then what we are leaving behind.

Expanding a stadium actually does make a program more attractive and lets face it we are all auditioning during this next ostensibly stable period of conference realignment no matter how short-lived it may be.

Moreover, our administration has a vision that we are trying to implement. Ruffin McNeil just got a 3 yr extension and a raise so we have stability and that will help recruiting. Ruff has improved our win total by 3 games last year from the year prior. Further, he also led us to a share of the division crown last year with a very young team. His recruiting has been very strong and most of our star/skill position players will have another year of eligibility after this year, so we are building a solid nucleus/foundation.

Point is, we feel that once again we are a program on the rise, and our transition to the AAC is a step up for us and I believe it will elevate not only our visibility and brand but also our football prowess. We should be pretty decent for the foreseeable future and we have basically sold 50,000 even when we weren't decent and playing CUSA competition. Consequently, 60,000 seats can and will most likely be filled to capacity in 4 years at the rate we are going and w/t likes of WVU, VT, UNC, SC & BYU coming to town in conjunction w/t new conference, I feel confident that we are doing the right thing by pulling the trigger on this operation.

It's really a credit to the passion and support of our fan base.

Best of luck.

I do admire someone with a vision. The best strategy would be to string together some 13-0, 12-1, 11-2 seasons.

Become the next Utah, Boise, TCU, or Louisville and you'll probably have no trouble filling up a bigger stadium.

Those records would certainly help speed up the process of attracting new fans, but I've been around this program for over twenty years and I've seen steady upward growth in fan support the entire time, save for bumps here and there, steadily up. Moving forward with the expansion in the next few years is the correct move for us at this point in the program's growth for a number of reasons. It doesn't matter whether anyone else understands or cares, we do.

(06-05-2013 08:11 PM)PuddlePirate Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 03:38 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 03:25 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  ECU only had a minimal drop in attendance this past year and that only was due to the two previous consecutive losing seasons (2010-11) right after 4 consecutive winning seasons (2006-09). A lot of those non-sellouts were due to a slow start this past year as well.

We also were playing SMU and Tulane already & now we are merely dropping UAB, Rice and Utep amongst others. We still will not be playing west division members every year anyway. Believe it or not, there actually will be more demand for playing Temple, UConn, Navy, UC, & USF. First, simply because many are new foes to us and that intrinsically means more interest/intrigue & secondly, and more importantly, these new conference mates are at least marginally (if not substantially) better quality opponents then what we are leaving behind.

Expanding a stadium actually does make a program more attractive and lets face it we are all auditioning during this next ostensibly stable period of conference realignment no matter how short-lived it may be.

Moreover, our administration has a vision that we are trying to implement. Ruffin McNeil just got a 3 yr extension and a raise so we have stability and that will help recruiting. Ruff has improved our win total by 3 games last year from the year prior. Further, he also led us to a share of the division crown last year with a very young team. His recruiting has been very strong and most of our star/skill position players will have another year of eligibility after this year, so we are building a solid nucleus/foundation.

Point is, we feel that once again we are a program on the rise, and our transition to the AAC is a step up for us and I believe it will elevate not only our visibility and brand but also our football prowess. We should be pretty decent for the foreseeable future and we have basically sold 50,000 even when we weren't decent and playing CUSA competition. Consequently, 60,000 seats can and will most likely be filled to capacity in 4 years at the rate we are going and w/t likes of WVU, VT, UNC, SC & BYU coming to town in conjunction w/t new conference, I feel confident that we are doing the right thing by pulling the trigger on this operation.

It's really a credit to the passion and support of our fan base.

Best of luck.

I do admire someone with a vision. The best strategy would be to string together some 13-0, 12-1, 11-2 seasons.

Become the next Utah, Boise, TCU, or Louisville and you'll probably have no trouble filling up a bigger stadium.

Those records would certainly help speed up the process of attracting new fans, but I've been around this program for over twenty years and I've seen steady upward growth in fan support the entire time, save for bumps here and there, steadily up. Moving forward with the expansion in the next few years is the correct move for us at this point in the program's growth for a number of reasons. It doesn't matter whether anyone else understands or cares, we do.

We are not going 13-0 playing the out of conference schedule we play.

When we went from 35k to 43k ppl said we wouldn't fill it. We did. When we went from 43k to 50k ppl said we wouldn't fill it. We did. All while being mired in CUSA and not in a BCS league. ECU fans will make it happen.

Our fans will respond with an AAC conference schedule coupled with OOC schedule of NC St, USC, UNC, WVu, BYU, and Va Tech coming to Greenville in the coming years.

Good football and good competition brings the fans. We have both.

Build it-

(06-05-2013 03:41 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 03:37 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  And ECU is more than capable of filling that juggernaut up with Pirate fans.

You haters are crazy.

You sound pretty defensive. All I said was that I found the decision curious in light of the fact that the current stadium hasn't been filled up 2 of the 3 years since capacity was increased. And that's being a "hater"???

For your sake, I hope you're right that you do fill it up. You'll be an inspiration to all of us who dream big. Best of luck.

Why don't you worry about UConn trying to get 40,000. We'll worry about getting our 60,000 and will see who will accomplish it 1st.

The NC legislative approval in 2010 was for expansion to 58k not 60k last I understood.
The rendition plan was to build a 6-story building behind the south side main stand with floors 1-4 slated for academics and athletics offices while floors 5&6 rose above the back of the deck to accommodate press box and private luxury boxes/suites selling at about ~$300k per x 30 to raise ~$10million. The second phase would be to add the upper deck of ~8000 open air bench-style seating which would run a length equal to that of the north side upper deck for aesthetic balance. It now seems as if the two phases have been rolled into a single ‘build’ after a new cost analysis. Apparently a target date is being set. Expect a formal fundraising drive to begin perhaps Spring 2014.

(06-05-2013 09:26 PM)Crusty-the-Pirate Wrote:  The NC legislative approval in 2010 was for expansion to 58k not 60k last I understood.
The rendition plan was to build a 6-story building behind the south side main stand with floors 1-4 slated for academics and athletics offices while floors 5&6 rose above the back of the deck to accommodate press box and private luxury boxes/suites selling at about ~$300k per x 30 to raise ~$10million. The second phase would be to add the upper deck of ~8000 open air bench-style seating which would run a length equal to that of the north side upper deck for aesthetic balance. It now seems as if the two phases have been rolled into a single ‘build’ after a new cost analysis. Apparently a target date is being set. Expect a formal fundraising drive to begin perhaps Spring 2014.

The plan for doing the press box/suites then upper deck never got that far. As I understand it, from TH they were looking at doing an upper deck with either a club/suite level below and press box above or upper deck with club/suite/press box above. This is for several reasons, cost and the fact the putting a multiple level suite/press box level then would put the south side upper deck much higher than the north side. I think the plan now is kinda patterned like Carter-Finley's home side.



Upper deck, then club level, suites, and then press box on top.

I am also concerned about our ability to fill up to 60K, but under the right conditions, we can. We're going to have to come into the AAC firing on all cylinders and we're going to have to be in championship position. I'm betting that VPI, WVU, skUNC, NC State, and BYU will be packed by default. Tulsa, UConn, USF, Houston, and Cincy will all be doing well enough to unquestionably bring fans in. The rest will totally depend on our performance.

I would also argue that ECU isn't the 5th program in the state. You'd have to understand the state of NC but in football the top 3 (ECU, NC State, and UNC) all own their fanbases that aren't going anywhere and are just about equal. There is no flagship program here. ECU owns the east, Carolina and State own the triangle, App State owns the mountains, and we all have fans and causal observers taking up a sizable market share in the other territories.

(06-06-2013 11:30 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I am also concerned about our ability to fill up to 60K, but under the right conditions, we can. We're going to have to come into the AAC firing on all cylinders and we're going to have to be in championship position. I'm betting that VPI, WVU, skUNC, NC State, and BYU will be packed by default. Tulsa, UConn, USF, Houston, and Cincy will all be doing well enough to unquestionably bring fans in. The rest will totally depend on our performance.

I would also argue that ECU isn't the 5th program in the state. You'd have to understand the state of NC but in football the top 3 (ECU, NC State, and UNC) all own their fanbases that aren't going anywhere and are just about equal. There is no flagship program here. ECU owns the east, Carolina and State own the triangle, App State owns the mountains, and we all have fans and causal observers taking up a sizable market share in the other territories.

I think I've finally figured what Melky means by #5. He just means wer're one of 5 FBS in NC..... well..... now unfortunately we're one of 7.

(06-05-2013 07:57 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 07:51 PM)Steelbeard Wrote:  Honestly, the not being able to sell beer in the stadium thing has never made sense to me. It's obvious not to sell it in the student section, but it's really just lost potential revenue to ECU.

No college in NC is allowed to sell beer.

I know that, I'm saying it doesn't really make sense for college stadiums in NC. It leaves a lot of money on the table and on top of everything else, it wouldn't be sold to students anyway, so their reasoning isn't valid. People just get roaring drunk anyway before they go into the stadium so it lasts the whole game and creates more problems.

60k is just a matter of common sense planning. ECU continues to grow its student population and unlike UNCheat and NCST we are not land locked and have plenty of room to grow and expand our enrollment. The population of Greenville and Eastern NC also continues to grow so 60k capacity is not overly aggressive by any measure IMO. Those extra seats also make it much easier to schedule home and home with regional P5 teams and take away any excuse that North Carolina P5 schools have for not visiting Greenville.
That type capacity also allows the marketing side of the ECU ticket office to offer more economy plan seats to less attractive games and also get some new blood in the stadium for the bigger games which can result in future ticket sales or season ticket sales. If the only thing ECU ever did was average 45=48k fans in a 60k seat stadium then it would still be worth while IMO to improve the look of Ficklen by expanding the South Side with a Press box, additional seats/luxury suites and office space/student facilities that would all be included in the construction. With the right schedules we would average 55k+ per game or worst case 48k+ per game but it is the right thing to do and our leadership is going to make it happen.

(06-06-2013 12:10 PM)Steelbeard Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 07:57 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 07:51 PM)Steelbeard Wrote:  Honestly, the not being able to sell beer in the stadium thing has never made sense to me. It's obvious not to sell it in the student section, but it's really just lost potential revenue to ECU.

No college in NC is allowed to sell beer.

I know that, I'm saying it doesn't really make sense for college stadiums in NC. It leaves a lot of money on the table and on top of everything else, it wouldn't be sold to students anyway, so their reasoning isn't valid. People just get roaring drunk anyway before they go into the stadium so it lasts the whole game and creates more problems.

I have always said have private access points in the stadium to sell to Pirate Club members. It helps with revenue and gives the Pirate Club another tool for selling memberships.

(06-06-2013 12:28 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  ECU continues to grow its student population and unlike UNCheat and NCST we are not land locked and have plenty of room to grow and expand our enrollment.

That isn't entirely correct. Wee are a bit landlocked for the campus itself. We can't expand the Main campus easily because the Historic Society has a lot of properties around it.

ECU growing even more only brings this league up another level folks. I, and maybe others, have said before that ECU can be our WVU. Right now, WVU tilts to branding scale toward themselves, but ECU has a good local brand in NC, and with success added to the increased ESPN exposure, they can be one of THE programs in The American.

(06-06-2013 02:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-06-2013 12:28 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  ECU continues to grow its student population and unlike UNCheat and NCST we are not land locked and have plenty of room to grow and expand our enrollment.

That isn't entirely correct. Wee are a bit landlocked for the campus itself. We can't expand the Main campus easily because the Historic Society has a lot of properties around it.

ECU could get really creative acquiring land around campus which they already do for office space. I have watched Savannah Creative Art and Design SCAD, buy up property all over Savannah while growing their student population and the Savannah historic society makes the Greenville historic society look like bunch of boy scouts. I think ECU is happy at keeping the student enrollment at or near 30k for the near future but the option is certainly on the table to grow it larger. The city of Greenville will continue to grow as the Medical complex does as well as the University. All of this adds up to ECU eventually needing a Football Stadium that can hold 60k people.

(06-06-2013 02:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-06-2013 12:28 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  ECU continues to grow its student population and unlike UNCheat and NCST we are not land locked and have plenty of room to grow and expand our enrollment.

That isn't entirely correct. Wee are a bit landlocked for the campus itself. We can't expand the Main campus easily because the Historic Society has a lot of properties around it.

The plan is to expand west and into downtown mostly where it already owns property, so in effect it isn't landlocked. The really nice thing there is that infrastructure is in place so you don't have to extend water/sewer etc...like you would if you kept moving out. Should save on building costs when they actually start more main campus building.

(06-06-2013 12:28 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  60k is just a matter of common sense planning. ECU continues to grow its student population and unlike UNCheat and NCST we are not land locked and have plenty of room to grow and expand our enrollment. The population of Greenville and Eastern NC also continues to grow so 60k capacity is not overly aggressive by any measure IMO. Those extra seats also make it much easier to schedule home and home with regional P5 teams and take away any excuse that North Carolina P5 schools have for not visiting Greenville.
That type capacity also allows the marketing side of the ECU ticket office to offer more economy plan seats to less attractive games and also get some new blood in the stadium for the bigger games which can result in future ticket sales or season ticket sales. If the only thing ECU ever did was average 45=48k fans in a 60k seat stadium then it would still be worth while IMO to improve the look of Ficklen by expanding the South Side with a Press box, additional seats/luxury suites and office space/student facilities that would all be included in the construction. With the right schedules we would average 55k+ per game or worst case 48k+ per game but it is the right thing to do and our leadership is going to make it happen.

Agreed...good post. Even if you average 55K in a 60K stadium, it is worth expanding. There is revenue in suites and another club level as well as ticket sales and I'm betting ECU is looking for other money for the pressbox and academic support functions.

But the bigger factor is just the "ability" to host 58 or 60K. Its a recruiting thing, its an aesthetic thing (front and back). Its a scheduling thing, and we are talking about a market that seems to get closer and closer to the large RDU market every day...its no longer a rinky dink town and a rinky dink stadium. Its big time college football that shows well on TV with a passionate student section and fanbase and is really what college football is all about.

(06-06-2013 02:42 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(06-06-2013 12:28 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  60k is just a matter of common sense planning. ECU continues to grow its student population and unlike UNCheat and NCST we are not land locked and have plenty of room to grow and expand our enrollment. The population of Greenville and Eastern NC also continues to grow so 60k capacity is not overly aggressive by any measure IMO. Those extra seats also make it much easier to schedule home and home with regional P5 teams and take away any excuse that North Carolina P5 schools have for not visiting Greenville.
That type capacity also allows the marketing side of the ECU ticket office to offer more economy plan seats to less attractive games and also get some new blood in the stadium for the bigger games which can result in future ticket sales or season ticket sales. If the only thing ECU ever did was average 45=48k fans in a 60k seat stadium then it would still be worth while IMO to improve the look of Ficklen by expanding the South Side with a Press box, additional seats/luxury suites and office space/student facilities that would all be included in the construction. With the right schedules we would average 55k+ per game or worst case 48k+ per game but it is the right thing to do and our leadership is going to make it happen.

Agreed...good post. Even if you average 55K in a 60K stadium, it is worth expanding. There is revenue in suites and another club level as well as ticket sales and I'm betting ECU is looking for other money for the pressbox and academic support functions.

But the bigger factor is just the "ability" to host 58 or 60K. Its a recruiting thing, its an aesthetic thing (front and back). Its a scheduling thing, and we are talking about a market that seems to get closer and closer to the large RDU market every day...its no longer a rinky dink town and a rinky dink stadium. Its big time college football that shows well on TV with a passionate student section and fanbase and is really what college football is all about.

Yeah, it's simple math, example, say the upper deck will hold 6,000, a Club level of 3,500 and say 16 luxury suites with a total of 500 seats...........

The suites will be pre sold on contract every five years at say $250,000 a season, that's 4 million a year in revenue.

The club will sell out every year, no matter if the all show up to every game or not.

3,500, $300 a seat, that's 1,050,000 a year

Then say of the remaining 6,000 newly opened only 3,000 are sold, average per seat cost is $40 per game, that's another 720,000 a year

That's a total revenue increase of $5,770,000 only filling about half the seats on ticket sells alone, that's not counting parking, concessions, on site merchandise sells, increased PC memberships and giving levels.

Nearly $6 million a year or not, which is the better choice???????

(06-06-2013 02:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-06-2013 12:28 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  ECU continues to grow its student population and unlike UNCheat and NCST we are not land locked and have plenty of room to grow and expand our enrollment.

That isn't entirely correct. Wee are a bit landlocked for the campus itself. We can't expand the Main campus easily because the Historic Society has a lot of properties around it.

University growth has very little to do with available land. NCSU has Centeninal Campus and plenty of room and if growth was to UNC Cheats advantage they would make it happen. The University system developed a master plan (around 2000) for growth and based on the research gathered ECU and UNCC where the two schools selected to absorb almost 80% percent of the systems growth at the time the projection was for both U's to grow to approximately 40,000 students...after the economy collapse the growth has shifted to the community college system for now. UNC does not want to grow because of the out of state percentage rule...they do not have the luxury of selecting students world wide and can't stand being the academic step-child of Duke, Wake Forest and Davidson....that is why Cheater Hill will not grow....plenty of land in Organe County.

State and unc are not land locked as we are not

"In addition to maintaining its hold on Conference USA's top attendance mark for a fifth-straight season, ECU also stood first among all non-automatic qualifying BCS conference member turnstile counts and ranked 35th of all 120 FBS programs nationally with a capacity percentage 94.03 during the 2012 campaign. In all, single-season stadium attendance standards of 300,069 (total) and 50,012 (average) have been established during McNeill's tenure - a time span that also features the top-six single-game draws in East Carolina history." - Link from 6/3/13 Ruff's contract extension.

(06-07-2013 10:37 AM)pir84evr Wrote:  "In addition to maintaining its hold on Conference USA's top attendance mark for a fifth-straight season, ECU also stood first among all non-automatic qualifying BCS conference member turnstile counts and ranked 35th of all 120 FBS programs nationally with a capacity percentage 94.03 during the 2012 campaign. In all, single-season stadium attendance standards of 300,069 (total) and 50,012 (average) have been established during McNeill's tenure - a time span that also features the top-six single-game draws in East Carolina history." - Link from 6/3/13 Ruff's contract extension.

It would be because the stadium expansion to 50K happened after Skip Left and before Ruff started.