Looking at it from the outside it looks as if ASU and GS traded a ceiling of competing for a national football championship every year to a ceiling of competing for a minor bowl game every year. I'm interested to hear from fans of those school on how they feel about the move, and what they think are the advantages/disadvantages of the move to the Sun Belt.

you need to go to the SBC to ask them
they are already gone

I thought some might be hanging around since they have one more year in the SoCon.

Great move, nothing else for either school to do at the FCS level. We are a school with over 20,000 students and average 21k at ball games. We have long outgrown FCS and this move was long overdue

(06-01-2013 10:15 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Great move, nothing else for either school to do at the FCS level. We are a school with over 20,000 students and average 21k at ball games. We have long outgrown FCS and this move was long overdue

Thanks for your perspective. That's what I'm looking for. What the schools' fans think.

But in the interests of further discussion, what do you feel the advantages of the move to the Sun Belt are? My understanding is the SoCon is Division 1 in all sports but football, so I do not see a real difference for the non-football sports. What are the advantages you see of the Sun Belt versus the SoCon in football? Is it more exposure, more TV money, or ultimately a spot in the upcoming FBS college football playoff? I'm serious about these questions. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm interested in fans' thoughts.

Advantages- recognition, money, chance at the playoff once it expands more, making a bigger name for university

Disadvantages- transition period, not being the "big dog" anymore, losing more frequently for a little while, not getting to beat Furman anymore

(06-01-2013 12:08 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Disadvantages- not getting to beat Furman anymore

Trust me you won't miss them. I loved our time in IAA, the playoffs were fun and exciting. But I never missed the SoCon once we left. I do though wish we would try and get the older SoCon schools though if we were going to play a IAA. Pounding Western Carolina was fun last year. Especially since they had Marshall transfer Eddie Sullivan who quit on the team after the 11th game of 2011.

But I never missed going to Greenville SC, Lexington, VA, Cullowhee, NC or the rest. I can remember back in the early to mid 80s being jealous of stadiums at Furman, WCU and the Cit. I now look and think what the @$% was I thinking.

I think hearing more about Marshall's transition would be informative. It appears they were in a similar situation to ASU and Georgia Southern. How about some Marshall fans tell us about the benefits Marshall has realized from the move to Division I in football.

(06-01-2013 10:27 PM)Buckminster Fuller Wrote:  I think hearing more about Marshall's transition would be informative. It appears they were in a similar situation to ASU and Georgia Southern. How about some Marshall fans tell us about the benefits Marshall has realized from the move to Division I in football.

There was no transition period when Marshall moved up. We went from IAA to IA. Went from 15-0 and the best IAA team in history in 1996 to 10-3 in 1997. Our only 3 losses that year was WVU, Miami OH and Ole Miss in the Motor City Bowl. We didn't have a full 85 scholarships until 1999 and in 1998 we were 12-1, only loss to Bowling Green and in 1999 was 13-0.

The Utah, Bosie States and NIUs going to BCS bowls can thank Tulane and Marshall for going undefeated in 1998 and 1999 and our reward being BYU. Tulane beat BYU 41-27 in the Liberty Bowl and Marshall beat BYU 21-3 in the Motor City Bowl.

Those are excellent records, but what tangible benefits have you seen that Marshall has realized from the move up? Has the nineties success translated into more money for the program, better facilities, better recruiting? Is that success something Marshall has been able to sustain? Could you provide some examples, because the records for the three years you cite are something to be proud of, but going back to my original statement/question, it looks like that got Marshall trips to the Motor City Bowl or the GMAC Bowl, where in I-AA that got them to a playoff and a couple national championships. Is the Motor City Bowl an acceptable trade off for national championships for fans, or are there other benefits beyond the records and ultimate bowl appearances you've mentioned?

(06-02-2013 07:28 PM)Buckminster Fuller Wrote:  Those are excellent records, but what tangible benefits have you seen that Marshall has realized from the move up? Has the nineties success translated into more money for the program, better facilities, better recruiting? Is that success something Marshall has been able to sustain? Could you provide some examples, because the records for the three years you cite are something to be proud of, but going back to my original statement/question, it looks like that got Marshall trips to the Motor City Bowl or the GMAC Bowl, where in I-AA that got them to a playoff and a couple national championships. Is the Motor City Bowl an acceptable trade off for national championships for fans, or are there other benefits beyond the records and ultimate bowl appearances you've mentioned?

There was absolutely nothing else to prove in IAA. When we moved up to the MAC we probably had some of the best facilities anywhere in the MAC. But we also had change in president and AD and not for the better.

Dan Angel became Marshall's president in 1999. While at Marshall he didn't pay attention to anything athletically As a matter of fact he funneled money out of athletics for 3 years to build the biotech center. Once it was discovered what happened he was fired imed.

Bob Marcum became the AD in 2002 and was asleep at the wheel the 7 years he was in office. There was 2 things done on his watch one of which he can't claim. In 2003 Joan C Edwards stadium was expanded from 32K to 39k, but that was approved to be done in late 2001. The only facility built in his time there was Dot Hicks field, for our softball team. Marcum a Marshall grad didn't even think Marshall should be in IA.

Academically things started to change in 2005 when Dr Steven J Kopp became president. A lot of Marshall fans first thought he was not athletic friendly. One of the 1st things he done was scrap an IPF that was on the dock to be built. The thing is Marshall was in such a mess when he came to Huntington it wasn't funny.

Dr Kopp instead of firing Marcum when he got there kept him on for another 4 years, because at that time he knew he couldn't get who he wanted as AD. When Marcum's contract ended in July of 09 it wasn't renewed.

Mike Hamrick was hired away from UNLV and as he put it in his press conference "Im coming home" Hamrick is a 1980 grad of Marshall and from Clendenin WV in Kanawha Co WV.

Since Kopp and Hamrick have been in office together they have been excellent. Marshall has 30 million dollars going on in athletic facilities. We are building an IAC (Indoor Athletic Complex). It will have a 120 football field, 100 yard field plus end zones. It will also house a 6 lane 300 meter track, batting cages for baseball and softball and have rolling portable tennis courts. The IAC will have a capacity of 750-1000 so it will be able to house indoor track meets. Also incorporated with the IAC will be a sports medicine facility, Hall of Fame and academic center. There is also a soccer complex being built.

Marshall Soccer Complex
Marshall Soccer Complex Field



Marshall Soccer Complex Groundbreaking



Marshall IAC Groundbreaking

We also have 2 more suites being built on Joan C Edwards Stadium. Both have already been bought and contracted out for 10 years. These improvements and facilities should have been built 10 years ago who knows where Marshall would be right now. But its better to get them done now than to never have them. And I seriously don't think they would be built if we were still in the SoCon.

I know there are a lot of recruits that have came to Marshall that simply would not have even considered us if we were in the SoCon, going back to 1998 even. Recruits that became players such as Byron Leftwich, Darius Watts, Josh Davis to newer recruits as Rakeem Cato, Tommy Shuler and Kevin Grooms.

A lot of people who's schools are IAA try and ignore the fact they don't get some recruits simply because they are IAA. But the fact is a lot of kids see IAA as a last option especially if they are a decent player.

They made the right move...why not move up when you're in a position to do it? That's my mindset. I'm glad Mercer is on track to build a winning football program. The opportunity to move up may not last forever.

(06-01-2013 10:15 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Great move, nothing else for either school to do at the FCS level. We are a school with over 20,000 students and average 21k at ball games. We have long outgrown FCS and this move was long overdue

This. Except take off about 1,500 on the enrollment, and add about 7,000 to the attendance figures. One other factor for both schools is the emergence of UNCC and GaState. It would've become almost impossible to maintain our stature within the subdivision. Recruits would've seen the FBS label, and ignored the winning tradition. Once that happens, we lose the winning tradition, and run the risk of becoming mid-pack SoCon.

The FCS playoffs do not normally have good attendance. App State has had for many years has around 30,000 average attendance, but play off games, particularly the early ones, have maybe 16K attending. Four or five playoff games within a month during Thanksgiving and Christmas is a little much. May be fun to watch, but hard to make it every weekend. Plus the NCAA, with their closed bid system, takes almost all the money themselves. Better competition during the regular season games more than makes up for the lose of the FCS playoffs.

(06-05-2013 02:17 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The FCS playoffs do not normally have good attendance. App State has had for many years has around 30,000 average attendance, but play off games, particularly the early ones, have maybe 16K attending. Four or five playoff games within a month during Thanksgiving and Christmas is a little much. May be fun to watch, but hard to make it every weekend. Plus the NCAA, with their closed bid system, takes almost all the money themselves. Better competition during the regular season games more than makes up for the lose of the FCS playoffs.

One of the things that took away from the playoffs is when they went and regionalized it in 2001. It was better when they took the 16 teams put them in order of strength and did 1-16, 2-15, 3-14, 4-13, 5-12, 6-11, 7-10, and 8-9. And whoever won the bid got to host.

I think that 24 team playoff format now is way to many schools. You will soon start getting in 7 win schools, maybe even 6 win schools somewhere. Unless one of those schools just has some kind of incredible run, those schools will get blown out most years.

Also I look for the IAA, DII, DIII and NAIA Championship Game to be an exclusive to ESPN3 in 5 years or less. Take a look at the IAA game, its already been relegated to a 20K soccer stadium. And unless a Texas school gets in, it will probably have 12K or less there.

Off the top of my head three things come to mine as to why this was a good move:

1. Instead of watching us keep our win streak against Western Carolina rolling another twenty years I would rather watch us be challenged by higher quality teams. I think it would simply be more interesting to watch a GSU vs. GATECH/NCSTATE/NAVY/Troy/etc. game then it is a GSU vs. Western Carolina/Citadel/Elon game. Even if that means we may drop a few games.

2. We have proven we can hang with top programs through out the years. Picking up more scholarships would mean an even more complete team and the ability to be more competitive. We played Navy back in 2010 and were only beat by 6pts. I think if we had an additional 20 scholarships in that game we would have won. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that we may hit the ground running and experience the type

3. College Football really is a great way to get more exposure for your University. Georgia Southern has some great academic programs, despite what some may think, and more air time on tv could mean more advertisements targetted to potential students. Also if we do well it could make our university even more well known which could help our graduates too!

Sorry...I tend to be a little long-winded at times.

(06-01-2013 09:14 AM)Buckminster Fuller Wrote:  Looking at it from the outside it looks as if ASU and GS traded a ceiling of competing for a national football championship every year to a ceiling of competing for a minor bowl game every year. I'm interested to hear from fans of those school on how they feel about the move, and what they think are the advantages/disadvantages of the move to the Sun Belt.

As our chancellor said on the day we accepted our invitation, "we are not moving up, we are moving on". AppState fielded more sports teams than any member of the SoCon. The school won more SoCon men's and women's all-sports trophies than any school by a longshot, rattled off 3 national championships in FCS, shared or won outright 7 of the last 8 SoCon football titles, and are at the top of FCS attendance for years. Not to mention building a winning football program that was competitive against FBS schools (including the one you support) while being short scholarships and resources. Our school has grown in population and academic/athletic stature and it was time to move on. Past time.

Instead of challenging our decision (that was more justifiable than any FCS transition in years) perhaps I should challenge you and ask why you think we should stay in a division with schools like Gardner Webb, Alcorn State and Western Carolina? We cram 30,000 people into our stadium to watch AppState play Mars Hill, and when we travel to a key conference game against Wofford, there are 9000 in attendance and 2,500 are AppState fans. We outgrew FCS a long time ago, and quite frankly the facts are there for everyone to see.

Our fans are loyal and deserve to see better teams play in Boone. I'm excited about SBC play and look forward to home and homes with SBC, CUSA, AAC and yes Mr. Deacon, ACC teams in the near future. No excuses now... you are going to have to face us again.

(06-05-2013 10:34 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 02:17 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The FCS playoffs do not normally have good attendance. App State has had for many years has around 30,000 average attendance, but play off games, particularly the early ones, have maybe 16K attending. Four or five playoff games within a month during Thanksgiving and Christmas is a little much. May be fun to watch, but hard to make it every weekend. Plus the NCAA, with their closed bid system, takes almost all the money themselves. Better competition during the regular season games more than makes up for the lose of the FCS playoffs.

One of the things that took away from the playoffs is when they went and regionalized it in 2001. It was better when they took the 16 teams put them in order of strength and did 1-16, 2-15, 3-14, 4-13, 5-12, 6-11, 7-10, and 8-9. And whoever won the bid got to host.

I think that 24 team playoff format now is way to many schools. You will soon start getting in 7 win schools, maybe even 6 win schools somewhere. Unless one of those schools just has some kind of incredible run, those schools will get blown out most years.

Also I look for the IAA, DII, DIII and NAIA Championship Game to be an exclusive to ESPN3 in 5 years or less. Take a look at the IAA game, its already been relegated to a 20K soccer stadium. And unless a Texas school gets in, it will probably have 12K or less there.

Having gone through the various number of teams in the playoffs,
I agree 16 seems like the optimal number of teams for a football playoff. Hope the BCS realizes that soon.

(06-07-2013 08:00 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  

(06-01-2013 09:14 AM)Buckminster Fuller Wrote:  Looking at it from the outside it looks as if ASU and GS traded a ceiling of competing for a national football championship every year to a ceiling of competing for a minor bowl game every year. I'm interested to hear from fans of those school on how they feel about the move, and what they think are the advantages/disadvantages of the move to the Sun Belt.

As our chancellor said on the day we accepted our invitation, "we are not moving up, we are moving on". AppState fielded more sports teams than any member of the SoCon. The school won more SoCon men's and women's all-sports trophies than any school by a longshot, rattled off 3 national championships in FCS, shared or won outright 7 of the last 8 SoCon football titles, and are at the top of FCS attendance for years. Not to mention building a winning football program that was competitive against FBS schools (including the one you support) while being short scholarships and resources. Our school has grown in population and academic/athletic stature and it was time to move on. Past time.

Instead of challenging our decision (that was more justifiable than any FCS transition in years) perhaps I should challenge you and ask why you think we should stay in a division with schools like Gardner Webb, Alcorn State and Western Carolina? We cram 30,000 people into our stadium to watch AppState play Mars Hill, and when we travel to a key conference game against Wofford, there are 9000 in attendance and 2,500 are AppState fans. We outgrew FCS a long time ago, and quite frankly the facts are there for everyone to see.

Our fans are loyal and deserve to see better teams play in Boone. I'm excited about SBC play and look forward to home and homes with SBC, CUSA, AAC and yes Mr. Deacon, ACC teams in the near future. No excuses now... you are going to have to face us again.

I have no animosity toward ASU for moving on. I was simply asking a question, and looking for input from fans of ASU and GSU. My uncle was a scholarship athlete at ASU and currently coaches there. Glad to hear you are excited about the move. I hope it works out the way you want it to. I simply don't share your opinion.

And, as I'm sure you know, I don't control the football schedule at Wake Forest. They will play ASU again when both schools' athletic directors want to, I guess.

(06-01-2013 10:30 AM)Buckminster Fuller Wrote:  

(06-01-2013 10:15 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  Great move, nothing else for either school to do at the FCS level. We are a school with over 20,000 students and average 21k at ball games. We have long outgrown FCS and this move was long overdue

Thanks for your perspective. That's what I'm looking for. What the schools' fans think.

But in the interests of further discussion, what do you feel the advantages of the move to the Sun Belt are? My understanding is the SoCon is Division 1 in all sports but football, so I do not see a real difference for the non-football sports. What are the advantages you see of the Sun Belt versus the SoCon in football? Is it more exposure, more TV money, or ultimately a spot in the upcoming FBS college football playoff? I'm serious about these questions. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm interested in fans' thoughts.

The SoCon is division 1 for all sports including football, if you are a fan of Wofford the fact you didn't know that is troubling.

Yet provides a perfect example of what the move does from a public perception perspective.

This is a new challenge for us, with over 140 SoCon championships and three FCS titles there wasn't anything new to accomplish.

App and GSU didn't share the same athletic goals any longer.