(04-30-2013 01:59 PM)gotigers1 Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 12:37 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  This isn't newsworthy. Nothing to see here.

You're right, this should be a non-story.

Wait for the shiz storm when he gets cut from the League 'because he was gay' It's coming, just watch.

And that will be laughable. The guys is terrible. I'm not even sure how hes been in the league this long. I think hes averaged less than 1 ppg in each of the last 2 seasons.

(04-30-2013 07:56 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 06:01 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Mark, people should not have to accept homosexual behavior. There is a difference among between respectful, not discriminating in hiring practices based on sexual preference. Vegans don't have to accept my preference for rib eye steaks, and others don't have to accept a guy slamming his unit up another guy's hole.

(04-29-2013 06:01 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  agreed. looks like you have to be on the gay train or you are a horrible bigoted person. So much for tolerance.

Am I missing something? There is a gay train?

Just because I don't like people to be racist does not make me intolerant towards others, in the same way that just because I don't like anti-homosexual rhetoric does not make me intolerant.

Religion has been used to justify some bad things in the day (slavery for a long time for instance)...hell intolerance towards homosexuals is not nearly the worst of those (that is not to say religion has not been predominately used for good purposes either). If for some reason someone believes religion makes homosexuality bad, fine, that is between you and God...but it should not be reflected in the treatment of others.

I've said this before and a truly believe it... Oppression and discrimination ultimately lose out and are on the wrong side of history. It has been shown time and time again. I am confident that by the time my kids are grown, they will look back at the treatment of homosexuals the same why I look back at issues like segregation and wonder why it took the country so long to get to this point.

Christ hates religion but he loves the Church and it's not that pretty building on the corner, a Church in his eye is when 2 or more fellowship together in his name no matter where you are.

Well Obama said he can bang with shaq.

(04-30-2013 02:37 PM)whitey Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 07:56 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 06:01 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Mark, people should not have to accept homosexual behavior. There is a difference among between respectful, not discriminating in hiring practices based on sexual preference. Vegans don't have to accept my preference for rib eye steaks, and others don't have to accept a guy slamming his unit up another guy's hole.

(04-29-2013 06:01 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  agreed. looks like you have to be on the gay train or you are a horrible bigoted person. So much for tolerance.

Am I missing something? There is a gay train?

Just because I don't like people to be racist does not make me intolerant towards others, in the same way that just because I don't like anti-homosexual rhetoric does not make me intolerant.

Religion has been used to justify some bad things in the day (slavery for a long time for instance)...hell intolerance towards homosexuals is not nearly the worst of those (that is not to say religion has not been predominately used for good purposes either). If for some reason someone believes religion makes homosexuality bad, fine, that is between you and God...but it should not be reflected in the treatment of others.

I've said this before and a truly believe it... Oppression and discrimination ultimately lose out and are on the wrong side of history. It has been shown time and time again. I am confident that by the time my kids are grown, they will look back at the treatment of homosexuals the same why I look back at issues like segregation and wonder why it took the country so long to get to this point.

Christ hate religion but he loves the Church and it's not that pretty building on the corner, a Church in his eye is when 2 or more fellowship together in his name no matter where you are.

That's all fine and good. Church is a great thing for a ton of people. I have no problem with religion/church generally. However, I do take issue when it is used as a reason for oppression, discrimination and intolerance.

Y'all stop using this thread as handle to voice your religious/moral values. Smh

(04-30-2013 03:03 PM)King_WWW08 Wrote:  Y'all stop using this thread as handle to voice your religious/moral values. Smh

This.

This thread should just be locked up. No good can come of it. The news is the news. Its over and done. Lets talk AAC.

(04-29-2013 05:42 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  There is that guy that works down the hall, a cousin that lives with her "friend", a guy I went to high school with, that girl in college I liked but suddenly became uninterested, Pete Townshend ..............so what is the big deal about a basketball player?

For most of us, it shouldn't be a big deal. I had some intolerant and uninformed viewpoints about homosexuality until my random freshman year dorm assignment was in a place where there were two gay guys that lived next door. Once I actually talked to them, I realized that (a) they're not really that different and (b) it's very clear that homosexuality was never a choice for them and they were simply born in that manner. Since that time, despite being a self-proclaimed (albeit increasingly reluctant) Republican due to fiscal issues, I have simply thought that allowing gays to marry and otherwise be perfectly normal citizens in every way is common sense and in line with my belief that the government should generally abstain from interfering with both our personal and fiscal lives.

Anyway, the main deal about a basketball player coming out is that he's still currently playing in one of the 4 major sports leagues here, which is definitely unprecedented. When you think about, pro sports leagues were actually far ahead of their time when it came to breaking down racial barriers, but for various reasons, were far behind the rest of society with respect to the inclusion of homosexuals. I actually think the response over the last day has been fairly appropriate. There seems to be overwhelming support, but it's also not anywhere near the shocker that it would have been 15 or 20 years ago. My sense that it's more of a "It's about time someone came out in pro sports" than a "I can't believe a pro athlete is gay!" response, which is progress for society.

The "this isn't news!!!!1 stop talking about it!!!!1" line is such a cop out. Of course it's news, and of course it's worth talking about. Drew Magary says it best:

Quote:How To Talk About Jason Collins (If You're a Meathead)
BY DREW MAGARY

I was co-hosting a radio show last night and we were talking about Jason Collins' big coming-out party and one caller got really pissy about the whole thing. "I don't really like this topic," he bitched, "This is not sports!" That caller wasn't alone in his exasperation. Both professional napper Mike Francesca and human smoke alarm Chris Russo made a big show of how little they cared about a gay athlete coming out yesterday.

This is the new meathead talking point when dealing with news about gay athletes. They know they can't say they're not wild about queers anymore, so the new strategy is bloated indifference. THIS IS NOT RELEVANT. THIS IS A NOTHING STORY. NO ONE CARES ABOUT WHO'S GAY. It's a neat little trick. Not only do they avoid dealing with a subject they don't care for, but they're also condemning you for focusing on such trivial matters. Oh, you care about gay athletes? MY GOD YOU ARE SHALLOW.

Now, I'm gonna sympathize with these people for just a moment before kicking the **** out of them.

Read More http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2013/04...thead.html

The fact that he is the FIRST one o come out while still playing a major sports, shows that its big news.the younger you are the more likely that this is not an issue for you, since you probably have encountered someone being openly homosexual and seen that they are just like you and won't affect your life.
I have always wondered why those against it call it a choice, I mean if it was then that would mean all of us heterosexuals also made our choice and could have chosen a homosexual lifestyle. I don't know about you but I never remember having to make that choice?

(05-01-2013 04:11 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  I have always wondered why those against it call it a choice, I mean if it was then that would mean all of us heterosexuals also made our choice and could have chosen a homosexual lifestyle.

Would you agree that most sexual acts are the result of a choice by the people involved?

But in any case, if any particular human action is Not the result of conscious choice, does that mean the broader society has no legitimate standing to condemn or discourage such actions?

(04-30-2013 12:37 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  This isn't newsworthy. Nothing to see here.

I disagree. It's newsworthy because it hasn't happened before.

Does that make this guy Jackie Robinson? No, not quite. He's not the first gay player to play in the league-- only the first to come out publicly while an active player. But it IS an important step, it does matter, and it's newsworthy. Professional athletics and the military are two areas where there has been a LOT of pressure for people of different sexual preference to keep quiet about who they are. There's resistance, fear, and shame. This guy is having the courage to stand up to all that publicly, so that it may be more of a non-issue (and less newsworthy) in the future.

(05-01-2013 04:58 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Would you agree that most sexual acts are the result of a choice by the people involved?

Yes, every sexual act is technically usually a choice... just like eating when you're hungry is a choice, going to the bathroom when you need to go is a choice, etc. A powerful, innate, inborn urge, but technically each instance of engaging in the act is a "choice."

However, whom you're attracted to is NOT a choice, neither for straight people nor for gay people. Just like I don't get to decide which women I'm attracted to, a gay person can't just up and decide to be attracted to members of the opposite sex.

It's not just humans. I've personally seen the two pair-bonded male chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo, but there are many, many other documented cases in the animal kingdom. Nobody seems bothered by it except humans.

Quote:But in any case, if any particular human action is Not the result of conscious choice, does that mean the broader society has no legitimate standing to condemn or discourage such actions?

I'd say that society "has no legitimate standing to condemn or discourage" actions that are not harmful to others. We don't get to choose how other people act. That's not our right. If someone isn't hurting us or infringing on OUR rights, then as a self-proclaimed free society, we have no legitimate standing to infringe upon that person's rights.

Finally, just as a note-- we want this forum to be open and welcoming to everyone. It's perhaps against better judgement to allow this conversation to continue, but we'll keep it open for now, with a warning: We will not tolerate bigotry or hate speech of any kind, no matter how subtly delivered, no matter how couched in justifications, rhetoric, or even religious terms. Anything that's said which might make someone feel unwelcome or excluded on basis of who they are will not be tolerated-- posts will be deleted or modified and violators warned or banned as the mod team sees fit. We do not have to protect your right to free speech here-- make any bigoted statements elsewhere. This is not the place. This is and will be a welcoming place for all types of sports fans.

Thankfully, it appears that his twin brother Jarron Collins knew about it already, and was supportive of his brother.

I knew of twin brothers in law school. One came out, and the other had no idea. The story ended tragically.

(05-01-2013 07:33 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 04:58 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Would you agree that most sexual acts are the result of a choice by the people involved?

Yes, every sexual act is technically usually a choice... just like eating when you're hungry is a choice, going to the bathroom when you need to go is a choice, etc. A powerful, innate, inborn urge, but technically each instance of engaging in the act is a "choice."

However, whom you're attracted to is NOT a choice, neither for straight people nor for gay people. Just like I don't get to decide which women I'm attracted to, a gay person can't just up and decide to be attracted to members of the opposite sex.

It's not just humans. I've personally seen the two pair-bonded male chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo, but there are many, many other documented cases in the animal kingdom. Nobody seems bothered by it except humans.

Quote:But in any case, if any particular human action is Not the result of conscious choice, does that mean the broader society has no legitimate standing to condemn or discourage such actions?

I'd say that society "has no legitimate standing to condemn or discourage" actions that are not harmful to others. We don't get to choose how other people act. That's not our right. If someone isn't hurting us or infringing on OUR rights, then as a self-proclaimed free society, we have no legitimate standing to infringe upon that person's rights.

Finally, just as a note-- we want this forum to be open and welcoming to everyone. It's perhaps against better judgement to allow this conversation to continue, but we'll keep it open for now, with a warning: We will not tolerate bigotry or hate speech of any kind, no matter how subtly delivered, no matter how couched in justifications, rhetoric, or even religious terms. Anything that's said which might make someone feel unwelcome or excluded on basis of who they are will not be tolerated-- posts will be deleted or modified and violators warned or banned as the mod team sees fit. We do not have to protect your right to free speech here-- make any bigoted statements elsewhere. This is not the place. This is and will be a welcoming place for all types of sports fans.

Good post NJ1