(04-17-2013 11:40 AM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  The Sun Belt needs to take a step back and not make an expansion decision like Liberty or Jax State that will eventually rip the league apart. Even though I don't like hybrids, the SBC is already a hybrid, so maybe the best longterm decision is to make a deal with the MAC to take UMass off their hands as a football-only. Doing that means more money for the MAC's 12 prime teams. The Sun Belt could commit to keep UMass for something like five or seven years while waiting for more attractive Southern options to become available. Identify a program which fits the East Division and can upgrade to FBS in five to seven years like ETSU or Chattanooga or Whomever and add them for basketball and minor sports right now. Furthermore, keep working on James Madison and Missouri State for the longterm, with a plan to make them #13 and #14 in football when they are finally ready.

Benson evidently knows how much less the SB would make with 11 football teams it seems, so he is determined to have 12 by next year's BCS set up.

(04-18-2013 11:27 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(04-17-2013 05:20 PM)JMU Wrote:  Both Mo. St and JMU appear similar but from a pure ranking standpoint (US News) JMU is the 6th best regional and Mo. St. is the 60th. This includes all regionals. More specific to regions: in the south, JMU is #2 (ahead of App State at #3) and in the Midwest Mo. St. is tied with a bunch at 16. Admission selectivity favors JMU 59.9% vs. 83%. Endowments are about the same and both were founded about the same time.
Here is the link. I know there is more to it than this. But JMU would have the edge. Mo. State would also be a good alternative.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...op-public#

Living in Virginia, whenever I'm asked to discribe App State, I explain its a lot like JMU. Both were founded as teachers colleges to provide teachers to the surrounding rural region, both have evolved into their state's premier undergraduate focused university, and both are consistently ranked among the South's top universities in their category. Both are filled with primarily traditional, residential full time undergrads straight out of high school. I think this setup encourages a passionate fanbase not found at more commuter or graduate focused schools. Georgia Southern is of this type as well. So I think the three just go together naturally.

Agree.

(04-18-2013 11:44 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(04-17-2013 11:40 AM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  The Sun Belt needs to take a step back and not make an expansion decision like Liberty or Jax State that will eventually rip the league apart. Even though I don't like hybrids, the SBC is already a hybrid, so maybe the best longterm decision is to make a deal with the MAC to take UMass off their hands as a football-only. Doing that means more money for the MAC's 12 prime teams. The Sun Belt could commit to keep UMass for something like five or seven years while waiting for more attractive Southern options to become available. Identify a program which fits the East Division and can upgrade to FBS in five to seven years like ETSU or Chattanooga or Whomever and add them for basketball and minor sports right now. Furthermore, keep working on James Madison and Missouri State for the longterm, with a plan to make them #13 and #14 in football when they are finally ready.

Benson evidently knows how much less the SB would make with 11 football teams it seems, so he is determined to have 12 by next year's BCS set up.

What are the rules on that? Don't they just miss out on the extra million that would presumably go to the 12th team anyway? Is there any extra advantage to the 12th team and CCG?

Duke, presumably a championship game is needed to open up TV contract negotiations and get more TV money.

(04-18-2013 10:33 AM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 08:34 AM)DrGonzo Wrote:  I thought we were picking a school for an athletic conference, not deciding where to go for undergrad.

You're crazy if you think the only thing being looked at is athletics.

Of course it's not all athletics. if is was, Georgia State and UNC-Charlotte would be playing in the Big South Conference.

The importane of academic prestige as it relates to the likelihood of a particular school getting a SBC invite is being exaggerated in this thread. That was the purpose of my snark.

(04-18-2013 12:49 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  Duke, presumably a championship game is needed to open up TV contract negotiations and get more TV money.

I thought I read somewhere that even with a championship game, other contracts were locked in. Might've skimmed over it too fast, but that's what I thought I saw.

(04-18-2013 01:36 PM)DrGonzo Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 10:33 AM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 08:34 AM)DrGonzo Wrote:  I thought we were picking a school for an athletic conference, not deciding where to go for undergrad.

You're crazy if you think the only thing being looked at is athletics.

Of course it's not all athletics. if is was, Georgia State and UNC-Charlotte would be playing in the Big South Conference.

The importane of academic prestige as it relates to the likelihood of a particular school getting a SBC invite is being exaggerated in this thread. That was the purpose of my snark.

I don't think it is being exaggerated. I think in regards to two teams that are wanting us to wait, it will be weighed heavily, possibly as heavily as location.

(04-18-2013 01:38 PM)JMUDukeDawg Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:49 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  Duke, presumably a championship game is needed to open up TV contract negotiations and get more TV money.

I thought I read somewhere that even with a championship game, other contracts were locked in. Might've skimmed over it too fast, but that's what I thought I saw.

The contracts are "locked" but there are provisions for renegotiations for certain events taking place. One might be membership changes, but adding a conference championship game supposedly has value and gives us enough changes to our "worth" to open up the negotiations.

(04-18-2013 08:34 AM)DrGonzo Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 07:28 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(04-17-2013 05:20 PM)JMU Wrote:  Both Mo. St and JMU appear similar but from a pure ranking standpoint (US News) JMU is the 6th best regional and Mo. St. is the 60th. This includes all regionals. More specific to regions: in the south, JMU is #2 (ahead of App State at #3) and in the Midwest Mo. St. is tied with a bunch at 16. Admission selectivity favors JMU 59.9% vs. 83%. Endowments are about the same and both were founded about the same time.
Here is the link. I know there is more to it than this. But JMU would have the edge. Mo. State would also be a good alternative.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...op-public#

If you take a look at both schools ..jmu offers very few programs and practically no phd level stuff. mo state offers plenty..state may be #60 regional school in the country while jmu is #6 in their region..I also lean toward state because their location is more westerly..also jmu doesnt seem to want the belt..they are holding out for c-usa.

I thought we were picking a school for an athletic conference, not deciding where to go for undergrad.

well I have a hard time believing that jmu is the #2 university in the south..gee auburn..ga tech..uva..duke..unc..lsu..ole miss..florida...jmu would be ahead of some pretty good schools if that were true..just sayin

(04-19-2013 07:15 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 08:34 AM)DrGonzo Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 07:28 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(04-17-2013 05:20 PM)JMU Wrote:  Both Mo. St and JMU appear similar but from a pure ranking standpoint (US News) JMU is the 6th best regional and Mo. St. is the 60th. This includes all regionals. More specific to regions: in the south, JMU is #2 (ahead of App State at #3) and in the Midwest Mo. St. is tied with a bunch at 16. Admission selectivity favors JMU 59.9% vs. 83%. Endowments are about the same and both were founded about the same time.
Here is the link. I know there is more to it than this. But JMU would have the edge. Mo. State would also be a good alternative.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...op-public#

If you take a look at both schools ..jmu offers very few programs and practically no phd level stuff. mo state offers plenty..state may be #60 regional school in the country while jmu is #6 in their region..I also lean toward state because their location is more westerly..also jmu doesnt seem to want the belt..they are holding out for c-usa.

I thought we were picking a school for an athletic conference, not deciding where to go for undergrad.

well I have a hard time believing that jmu is the #2 university in the south..gee auburn..ga tech..uva..duke..unc..lsu..ole miss..florida...jmu would be ahead of some pretty good schools if that were true..just sayin

There is a difference. JMU is a regional university. The schools you mentioned, along with several universities in the Sun Belt, are national universities.

In case you're curious, here is the break down for the Sun Belt:

National Tier 1 Universities:
New Mexico State

National Tier 2 Universities:
South Alabama, Louisiana-Lafayette, Georgia State, UTA, Georgia Southern, Arkansas Little Rock

Regional Tier 1 Universities:
WKU, Troy, Arkansas State, Appalachian State, ULM, Texas State

(04-19-2013 07:15 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 08:34 AM)DrGonzo Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 07:28 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(04-17-2013 05:20 PM)JMU Wrote:  Both Mo. St and JMU appear similar but from a pure ranking standpoint (US News) JMU is the 6th best regional and Mo. St. is the 60th. This includes all regionals. More specific to regions: in the south, JMU is #2 (ahead of App State at #3) and in the Midwest Mo. St. is tied with a bunch at 16. Admission selectivity favors JMU 59.9% vs. 83%. Endowments are about the same and both were founded about the same time.
Here is the link. I know there is more to it than this. But JMU would have the edge. Mo. State would also be a good alternative.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...op-public#

If you take a look at both schools ..jmu offers very few programs and practically no phd level stuff. mo state offers plenty..state may be #60 regional school in the country while jmu is #6 in their region..I also lean toward state because their location is more westerly..also jmu doesnt seem to want the belt..they are holding out for c-usa.

I thought we were picking a school for an athletic conference, not deciding where to go for undergrad.

well I have a hard time believing that jmu is the #2 university in the south..gee auburn..ga tech..uva..duke..unc..lsu..ole miss..florida...jmu would be ahead of some pretty good schools if that were true..just sayin

You need to read the categories. JMU is classified as a regional southern university and is ranked #2 just ahead of APP State at #3. The universities you list are considered national universities.

Mo St. is classified as a regional Midwest university and is ranked tied for 16th.

Viewing all the regionals as a single category JMU is #6 and Mo State is #60.

JMU will be moving into the national category within 5 years and will be ranked among the top 50 Public schools based on our closest peers.

(04-18-2013 02:28 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 01:38 PM)JMUDukeDawg Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:49 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  Duke, presumably a championship game is needed to open up TV contract negotiations and get more TV money.

I thought I read somewhere that even with a championship game, other contracts were locked in. Might've skimmed over it too fast, but that's what I thought I saw.

The contracts are "locked" but there are provisions for renegotiations for certain events taking place. One might be membership changes, but adding a conference championship game supposedly has value and gives us enough changes to our "worth" to open up the negotiations.

That makes sense. I guess Benson (and the presidents) have to do a cost-benefit analysis on that one. Does the school they are waiting on (whether it be JMU or Mo. St.) add enough long run benefit that it's worth missing out on a year of a championship game?

hrothgar hungry, hrothgar want football. hrothgar not care rank less rank football.

ugg ugg.

(04-19-2013 10:20 AM)JMUDukeDawg Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 02:28 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 01:38 PM)JMUDukeDawg Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:49 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  Duke, presumably a championship game is needed to open up TV contract negotiations and get more TV money.

I thought I read somewhere that even with a championship game, other contracts were locked in. Might've skimmed over it too fast, but that's what I thought I saw.

The contracts are "locked" but there are provisions for renegotiations for certain events taking place. One might be membership changes, but adding a conference championship game supposedly has value and gives us enough changes to our "worth" to open up the negotiations.

That makes sense. I guess Benson (and the presidents) have to do a cost-benefit analysis on that one. Does the school they are waiting on (whether it be JMU or Mo. St.) add enough long run benefit that it's worth missing out on a year of a championship game?

Does JMU or MSU offer enough benefits in the long run? Absolutely. Will one accept? I hope.

Does JSU, Alabama State, or any other team mentioned offer enough benefits in the long run? No. Will we offer them? I hope not.

I'm not even going to say the 'L' word! Lol

Waited a year for JMU or Mizz St is better, but JMU really doesn't have an excuse and IMO is jerking Benson around holding out hope for the MAC.

For App JMU is best but this rubs me the wrong way. They want to have one more playoff run and more importantly an extra recruiting year to get up to speed.

(04-19-2013 07:38 AM)JMU Wrote:  

(04-19-2013 07:15 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 08:34 AM)DrGonzo Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 07:28 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(04-17-2013 05:20 PM)JMU Wrote:  Both Mo. St and JMU appear similar but from a pure ranking standpoint (US News) JMU is the 6th best regional and Mo. St. is the 60th. This includes all regionals. More specific to regions: in the south, JMU is #2 (ahead of App State at #3) and in the Midwest Mo. St. is tied with a bunch at 16. Admission selectivity favors JMU 59.9% vs. 83%. Endowments are about the same and both were founded about the same time.
Here is the link. I know there is more to it than this. But JMU would have the edge. Mo. State would also be a good alternative.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...op-public#

If you take a look at both schools ..jmu offers very few programs and practically no phd level stuff. mo state offers plenty..state may be #60 regional school in the country while jmu is #6 in their region..I also lean toward state because their location is more westerly..also jmu doesnt seem to want the belt..they are holding out for c-usa.

I thought we were picking a school for an athletic conference, not deciding where to go for undergrad.

well I have a hard time believing that jmu is the #2 university in the south..gee auburn..ga tech..uva..duke..unc..lsu..ole miss..florida...jmu would be ahead of some pretty good schools if that were true..just sayin

You need to read the categories. JMU is classified as a regional southern university and is ranked #2 just ahead of APP State at #3. The universities you list are considered national universities.

Mo St. is classified as a regional Midwest university and is ranked tied for 16th.

Viewing all the regionals as a single category JMU is #6 and Mo State is #60.

JMU is actually the #6 south regional university as of the 2013 rankings. We are the #2 public south regional university.
As a general rule, if you're a top 10 regional university, you're usually a pretty good school.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...rsity-3721

No doubt JMU is a good school. Am sure Missouri State is also.
Just wish JMU would go ahead and make the move, especially in football.
If things turn out detrimentally for them their administration has no one to blame but themselves.

(04-19-2013 12:11 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Waited a year for JMU or Mizz St is better, but JMU really doesn't have an excuse and IMO is jerking Benson around holding out hope for the MAC.

For App JMU is best but this rubs me the wrong way. They want to have one more playoff run and more importantly an extra recruiting year to get up to speed.

You're mad because JMU wants to make sure that they do what is best for the school?

So selfish of JMU!

If anything is going on with JSU, the authorities are keeping it super quiet. Personally, I dont think JSU is in the immediate plans for the SB.

Benson could be trying to coax a few others schools into making a move by bring up names that most have assumed are down the list.