(04-05-2013 09:43 AM)DollarBill Wrote:  I was somewhat shocked when all this started regarding Liberty U . Guess I was un-informed, and naive, didn't realize such bias existed toward private schools. After 2 or 3 days thinking about and reading this board, . I had concluded that maybe the roots of the criticism could have to do with acceptance of the GLBT lifestyle. What else could it be?? Abortion on demand?? I can't believe it would be racial. But then there is government people, those who despise the private sector in all things. I have not read any other boards so there is a lot I don't know. Wish someone from Liberty would help me out with this.

(04-05-2013 09:43 AM)DollarBill Wrote:  help me out with this.

Like I said I didn't go there but know several that did. You can forget the racial thing right off the bat. Interracial couples go completely unnoticed. LU head coach Turner Gill and is wife are the best example. It's the most color blind place I have ever seen.

I think you hit the nail on the head, right now the country is divided on same sex marriage about 50-50. Christians are about 80-20. Liberty's a Christian school .... so there lies the controversy. Gay's lobby hard against the school. The school "today" prefers to ignore the issue. They just say no pre-martial sex of any kind. Covers it all. We all know kids will be kids and rules get broken, but at a Christian U it seems like a reasonable goal to me .... but I'm married and 50'ish so it easy for me say. ha ha!

I love the school and would send my daughter there in a heart beat! I think the girls out number the guys .... wonder why?

Here are some picture's of Tim Tebow and Christian Ponders visit a couple of weeks ago. Of course Willie from Duck Dynasty made an appearance. I find it easy to be an LU fan, something interesting going on all the time around that campus.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=...290&type=3

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I think the girls out number the guys .... wonder why?
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I suspect it has to do with the no pre-marital hanky panky thing...

(04-05-2013 09:58 AM)eh9198 Wrote:  The controversy comes from Jerry Falwell. If you haven't heard of him look it up. People who believe differently I could care less about. People who blame 9/11 on gays, that is what I have a problem with. BUT upon reflection indicting a whole school because of it's founder may not be fair, unless they continue to push such beliefs.

But if you think I'm pushing a "liberal agenda" and that I'm far left (which I pretty much am, by the way, save one major difference) then you're practicing the same thing you're condemning me of (shoving an opposite belief in my face).

I said on a different thread that I'd like to get back to talking sports. I maintain that position, but when the inevitable pile-up happens when Tea Partiers are challenged I have to speak up.

MJS, please stop rabble rousing. I know what you're doing and you're the master of it. It's that pschology degree of yours.

People who blame 9/11 on gays

That is the 1st time I have ever heard that

But if you think I'm pushing a "liberal agenda" and that I'm far left (which I pretty much am, by the way, save one major difference) then you're practicing the same thing you're condemning me of (shoving an opposite belief in my face).

I am in the middle ground, so I am not pushing my views on anyone, but don't mind calling down the "i'm right your wrong" crowd. We as a country have moved very far to the right and left.

I invite everyone back to the middle ground ask them to understand you are going to have to give to get.

We as a people are going to have to be more tolarant of each other. Reading the posts here, no one is willing to listen to reason or to seek middle ground.

Liberty Fan, you should know by now that you don't have "discussions" with liberals. Liberals don't discuss. They tell you that you that they are right and that you are wrong and they aren't open to debate. If you don't believe that, go back and read some of the anti-Liberty posts in this thread.

(04-05-2013 11:08 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  Liberty Fan, you should know by now that you don't have "discussions" with liberals. Liberals don't discuss. They tell you that you that they are right and that you are wrong and they aren't open to debate. If you don't believe that, go back and read some of the anti-Liberty posts in this thread.

I know .... I'm an old fart and have been around a while. I'd rather talk football anyhow. I was just doing a Google search for Liberty football news and found this thread ... take care guys!

Thanks, MJS!

(04-05-2013 11:08 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  Liberty Fan, you should know by now that you don't have "discussions" with liberals. Liberals don't discuss. They tell you that you that they are right and that you are wrong and they aren't open to debate. If you don't believe that, go back and read some of the anti-Liberty posts in this thread.

Which part was it where I wasn't open for debate? The part where I decided it wasn't fair for me to condemn Liberty because of Jerry Falwell after all? Or the part where I wanted to get back to talking sports instead of dividing our tiny fanbase because of a stupid pissing contest? "Liberals never want to debate" is the same broad generalization that you have very rightly called out in the past.

I would love to have some private schools in our league. I would prefer some more basketball only teams, but if they play football, that's allright too. But I would love to have ORU, Belmont, and even Liberty if they have an athletic program that fits our league. As LRTrojan said, I could care less about what someone believes as long as they don't try and push their beliefs on me. Liberty's facilities look to be first class, and they've grown into a large university. If they meet all our criteria athletically, I see no reason to exclude them.

(04-05-2013 11:25 AM)eh9198 Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 11:08 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  Liberty Fan, you should know by now that you don't have "discussions" with liberals. Liberals don't discuss. They tell you that you that they are right and that you are wrong and they aren't open to debate. If you don't believe that, go back and read some of the anti-Liberty posts in this thread.

Which part was it where I wasn't open for debate? The part where I decided it wasn't fair for me to condemn Liberty because of Jerry Falwell after all? Or the part where I wanted to get back to talking sports instead of dividing our tiny fanbase because of a stupid pissing contest? "Liberals never want to debate" is the same broad generalization that you have very rightly called out in the past.

I've never had hard feeling for Mickey, Jim, or any of the other Shields lovers over whether Shields needed to go or stay, or the status of Mike Newell. We each express our beliefs each time the subject comes up, and I hope we can still be friends.

You and I and are in agreement on the subject of Shields, but we have different ideas about social matters evidently. I don't have any problem with what you believe about God or Jerry Falwell, or any other subject. But don't deny me my right to believe as I do about anything. You made a reference to "Tea Partiers". I'm not a Tea Party member, but do agree with them on some issues. Disagree with them on others. But, what if I was a "Tea Partier"? Wouldn't I have the right to? I'm a conservative, but don't agree with all things conservatives believe in. So, I'm a Independent voter, and not a Republican or Democrat.

You and I and others here are never going to agree about social issues, and/or Liberty University's conference membership, so let's get back to what's important, and that is to get a new men's basketball coach that can get more people in central Arkansas excited about Trojan basketball.

I hope this is my last post on this subject. I'm ready to get back to the things we can control, or wish we could.

-30-

(04-05-2013 12:00 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  -30-

I'm a simple man Doc, and you're going to have to explain that to me.

Agreed, and I'll add to that getting a new Athletic Director. And please allow me to clear up any confusion I may have caused: no matter how much I may disagree with other points of view, I never have nor ever will consciously try to deny someone their right to express that belief.

And I absolutely consider myself to still be friendly with everyone on this board, and I hope everyone feels the same.

(04-05-2013 12:03 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 12:00 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  -30-

I'm a simple man Doc, and you're going to have to explain that to me.

You're far from a simple man, but in literature, or maybe written articles, that signifies "the end". I thought maybe it was time to end this discussion and get back to basketball, as you suggested. And I think we're all still friends. We just need some basketball news to talk about. If we sign someone during the signing period, we can discuss that, and if we don't, we can discuss why we didn't sign anyone. Anyway, it's all good.

(04-05-2013 12:14 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 12:03 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 12:00 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  -30-

I'm a simple man Doc, and you're going to have to explain that to me.

You're far from a simple man, but in literature, or maybe written articles, that signifies "the end". I thought maybe it was time to end this discussion and get back to basketball, as you suggested. And I think we're all still friends. We just need some basketball news to talk about. If we sign someone during the signing period, we can discuss that, and if we don't, we can discuss why we didn't sign anyone. Anyway, it's all good.

Okay. Let's end it with the perspective of a gay student that attended Liberty. Basically, points out that there's good and bad in everybody. Extremism on either side is wrong. Move to the middle like Inside suggests:

Am I trying to convince the world that Liberty is really a gay-affirming school, and that any LGBT student who goes there will have as easy a time as I did? Not at all. For every few really cool students on campus, there's always that one jerk who regularly posts statuses on Facebook about how great Chick-Fil-A is, and how that Muslim Obama wants to turn everyone into a Sodomite. But that student isn't the majority at Liberty, and he certainly didn't feature much into my career there.

Well, what about Jerry Falwell himself? After all, he did blame 9/11 on the gays. He did make that remark during service about "even barnyard animals knowing better than that." He also did make certain to ban Soul Force, a gay-affirming Christian ministry, from stepping foot on our campus.

But what about when he opened the Liberty Godparent Home to take in unwanted children? Or when he hosted a forum on campus about homosexuality, and invited 100 prominent gay leaders to take part in the discussion? Or when he would drive around campus every night at lights-out to blow his horn and wave goodnight to all of us students?

When I think of Jerry Falwell, I don't think about him the way Bill Maher does. I think about the man who would wear a huge Blue Afro wig to our school games, or the man who slid down a waterslide in his suit, or the man who would allow himself to be mocked during our coffeehouse shows. I think about the man who reminded us every time he addressed our student body that God loved us, that he loved us, and that he was always available if ever we needed him

I never told Dr. Falwell that I was gay; but I wouldn't have been afraid of his response. Would he have thought homosexuality was an abomination? Yes. Would he have thought it was God's intention for me to be straight? Yes. But would he have wanted to stone me? No. And if there were some that would've wanted to stone me, I can imagine Jerry Falwell, with his fat smile, telling all of my accusers to go home and pray because they were wicked people.

(04-05-2013 12:14 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 12:03 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 12:00 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  -30-

I'm a simple man Doc, and you're going to have to explain that to me.

You're far from a simple man, but in literature, or maybe written articles, that signifies "the end". I thought maybe it was time to end this discussion and get back to basketball, as you suggested. And I think we're all still friends. We just need some basketball news to talk about. If we sign someone during the signing period, we can discuss that, and if we don't, we can discuss why we didn't sign anyone. Anyway, it's all good.

For a simple man like me, "88 and out the gate" signifies the end. That's how one of the coaches I worked under ended his football practices. And in August when it's a hundred degrees or so, when I heard it, that was the sweetest sound on earth. And I know it had to be for those kids in full pads.

I think everyone has had their say, so I am shutting it down.