(03-09-2013 11:47 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:42 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:36 PM)USACoN2012 Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:35 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  Does the Sun Belt still allow schools to schedule non-D-I schools in the OOC? If so, that's one thing the conference could ban (with some exceptions) from being able to happen.

It's better for the RPI to schedule a non D-1 than a low RPI D-1.

I don't know if that's true. Many leagues have banned playing non D-1 in an attempt to raise the RPI of the league. The CAA has done this for instance.

I think a win over a low RPI school is better than no win at all - and since the RPI doesn't factor in non-D-1 schools - no win at all is what beating a non-D-1 school equates too.

I say this, but I don't have the research to back it up. I just know that many mid-major leagues, like the CAA for instance, have done it. So my evidence is really anecdotal.

If my memory is correct the Sun Belt only allows for 1 non-Division I opponent a year.

Non-Division I opponents do NOT count in RPI, so USACoN is correct. A win or loss against a non-Division I school does nothing to your RPI, while a win or loss against a low RPI Division I will bring your RPI down, even if you win it.

I'm just saying, I don't know if that's necessarily true. Yes, I think it hurts your SOS, but I think the effect is negligible in the RPI - and if anything - win helps your rpi since your own w-l record is a part of the rpi.

Anyway, there are other things that can be done to promote better play. For example the CAA has created an excellence pool for its distribution of NCAA tourney funds, see Section 2.05 on page 1 here: http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/8500/sup...EM_ID=8500

Does the Sun Belt have anything like this in place?

(03-09-2013 11:52 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:47 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:42 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:36 PM)USACoN2012 Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:35 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  Does the Sun Belt still allow schools to schedule non-D-I schools in the OOC? If so, that's one thing the conference could ban (with some exceptions) from being able to happen.

It's better for the RPI to schedule a non D-1 than a low RPI D-1.

I don't know if that's true. Many leagues have banned playing non D-1 in an attempt to raise the RPI of the league. The CAA has done this for instance.

I think a win over a low RPI school is better than no win at all - and since the RPI doesn't factor in non-D-1 schools - no win at all is what beating a non-D-1 school equates too.

I say this, but I don't have the research to back it up. I just know that many mid-major leagues, like the CAA for instance, have done it. So my evidence is really anecdotal.

If my memory is correct the Sun Belt only allows for 1 non-Division I opponent a year.

Non-Division I opponents do NOT count in RPI, so USACoN is correct. A win or loss against a non-Division I school does nothing to your RPI, while a win or loss against a low RPI Division I will bring your RPI down, even if you win it.

I'm just saying, I don't know if that's necessarily true. Yes, I think it hurts your SOS, but I think the effect is negligible in the RPI - and if anything - win helps your rpi since your own w-l record is a part of the rpi.

Anyway, there are other things that can be done to promote better play. For example the CAA has created an excellence pool for its distribution of NCAA tourney funds, see Section 2.05 on page 1 here: http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/8500/sup...EM_ID=8500

Does the Sun Belt have anything like this in place?

I didn't click the link but I can already answer NO. That is something that can change. I know ArkStFan has a model that rewards the basketball members going to the NCAA and for winning games. It's probably similar.

And yes playing a low-RPI team brings your RPI down even if you win, especially if you have a good RPI. In 2008 when USA had a top 30 RPI it would fluctuate every time we played a low Sun Belt team. Thankfully we had a strong out of conference schedule to balance it out, and WKU was a really good team in the same season and we played them twice so it helped keep our RPI low. Ask MTSU about how many spots their RPI fell after beating Louisiana-Monroe by 41 points.

(03-09-2013 11:58 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:52 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:47 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:42 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:36 PM)USACoN2012 Wrote:  It's better for the RPI to schedule a non D-1 than a low RPI D-1.

I don't know if that's true. Many leagues have banned playing non D-1 in an attempt to raise the RPI of the league. The CAA has done this for instance.

I think a win over a low RPI school is better than no win at all - and since the RPI doesn't factor in non-D-1 schools - no win at all is what beating a non-D-1 school equates too.

I say this, but I don't have the research to back it up. I just know that many mid-major leagues, like the CAA for instance, have done it. So my evidence is really anecdotal.

If my memory is correct the Sun Belt only allows for 1 non-Division I opponent a year.

Non-Division I opponents do NOT count in RPI, so USACoN is correct. A win or loss against a non-Division I school does nothing to your RPI, while a win or loss against a low RPI Division I will bring your RPI down, even if you win it.

I'm just saying, I don't know if that's necessarily true. Yes, I think it hurts your SOS, but I think the effect is negligible in the RPI - and if anything - win helps your rpi since your own w-l record is a part of the rpi.

Anyway, there are other things that can be done to promote better play. For example the CAA has created an excellence pool for its distribution of NCAA tourney funds, see Section 2.05 on page 1 here: http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/8500/sup...EM_ID=8500

Does the Sun Belt have anything like this in place?

I didn't click the link but I can already answer NO. That is something that can change. I know ArkStFan has a model that rewards the basketball members going to the NCAA and for winning games. It's probably similar.

And yes playing a low-RPI team brings your RPI down even if you win, especially if you have a good RPI. In 2008 when USA had a top 30 RPI it would fluctuate every time we played a low Sun Belt team. Thankfully we had a strong out of conference schedule to balance it out, and WKU was a really good team in the same season and we played them twice so it helped keep our RPI low. Ask MTSU about how many spots their RPI fell after beating Louisiana-Monroe by 41 points.

What do you guys think of this quote in re: basketball scheduling:

Quote:Look back at Larranaga's Final Four team when he was at George Mason. That team finished 15-3 in CAA play, and went 7-4 in non-conference contests. Mason played five true road games (Wake Forest, Manhattan, Georgia State, Mississippi State and Wichita State) and won three of them. The Patriots also played UC Irvine and American on neutral courts, and had Creighton, Radford, Hampton and Holy Cross at home.

Hardly a buzz-saw of a slate, but it was enough to finish 26th in the RPI and earn an at-large bid.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...miss-start

(03-10-2013 12:11 AM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:58 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:52 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:47 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:42 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  I don't know if that's true. Many leagues have banned playing non D-1 in an attempt to raise the RPI of the league. The CAA has done this for instance.

I think a win over a low RPI school is better than no win at all - and since the RPI doesn't factor in non-D-1 schools - no win at all is what beating a non-D-1 school equates too.

I say this, but I don't have the research to back it up. I just know that many mid-major leagues, like the CAA for instance, have done it. So my evidence is really anecdotal.

If my memory is correct the Sun Belt only allows for 1 non-Division I opponent a year.

Non-Division I opponents do NOT count in RPI, so USACoN is correct. A win or loss against a non-Division I school does nothing to your RPI, while a win or loss against a low RPI Division I will bring your RPI down, even if you win it.

I'm just saying, I don't know if that's necessarily true. Yes, I think it hurts your SOS, but I think the effect is negligible in the RPI - and if anything - win helps your rpi since your own w-l record is a part of the rpi.

Anyway, there are other things that can be done to promote better play. For example the CAA has created an excellence pool for its distribution of NCAA tourney funds, see Section 2.05 on page 1 here: http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/8500/sup...EM_ID=8500

Does the Sun Belt have anything like this in place?

I didn't click the link but I can already answer NO. That is something that can change. I know ArkStFan has a model that rewards the basketball members going to the NCAA and for winning games. It's probably similar.

And yes playing a low-RPI team brings your RPI down even if you win, especially if you have a good RPI. In 2008 when USA had a top 30 RPI it would fluctuate every time we played a low Sun Belt team. Thankfully we had a strong out of conference schedule to balance it out, and WKU was a really good team in the same season and we played them twice so it helped keep our RPI low. Ask MTSU about how many spots their RPI fell after beating Louisiana-Monroe by 41 points.

What do you guys think of this quote in re: basketball scheduling:

Quote:Look back at Larranaga's Final Four team when he was at George Mason. That team finished 15-3 in CAA play, and went 7-4 in non-conference contests. Mason played five true road games (Wake Forest, Manhattan, Georgia State, Mississippi State and Wichita State) and won three of them. The Patriots also played UC Irvine and American on neutral courts, and had Creighton, Radford, Hampton and Holy Cross at home.

Hardly a buzz-saw of a slate, but it was enough to finish 26th in the RPI and earn an at-large bid.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...miss-start

Another article on scheduling (and a quote that support y'alls position):

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketbal...me-the-rpi

Quote:One such coach, Nebraska's Tim Miles, did exactly that in 2012. His Colorado State team had a bafflingly high RPI throughout much of the bubble season, even as it finished a respectable-but-hardly-mindblowing fourth in the Mountain West Conference. How? Luke got Miles and CSU athletic director to outline their strategy. It includes all the usual hallmarks of RPI smarts: The Rams avoided games against really high RPI teams (even preferring to schedule against Division II opponents to avoid a knock against the RPI) went to play Duke at Cameron Indoor in an "all-reward, no-risk" affair, and scheduled as many non-conference games as possible against teams that would finish well in non-BCS leagues, like Montana, Southern Miss, and Northern Iowa. There is also luck involved -- it helps to play teams that play difficult schedules, after all.

Don't laugh because I know it's not possible but the self proclaimed elite programs follow the same model year after year and most teams in their conference do the same. What do they do?

1st - Only play other top teams on the road but they never play a "mid-major" or "low-major" (I hate those terms) on the road.
2nd - They only play top teams at home out of conference or very weak low-major teams at home.

Then when they get to conference play, most teams in their conference, except for a couple really really bad teams, have excellent out of conference records.

Kentucky, for example, played 10 home games out of conference and 2 road games on the road (Louisville and ND) and one neutral court game (MD). With a schedules like that, when you play your conference mates who had similar schedules, your rpi does not drop precipitously throughout the season.

Another example? Duke did not play a single road game until their conference season started. They played 7 home games and 5 on neutral courts.

Another? Indiana played 10 home games and 3 neutral court games and not true road games until conference play started.

I could go on and on.

in the SBC and other lower conferences, we typically play half our games at home and half on the road and the ones on the road are usually top teams or mid-majors. Winning true road games is always tough, regardless who you play.

(03-09-2013 11:24 PM)RaiderATO Wrote:  With every sport at the ***-Major level, rankings and RPI will come and go. Look at a school's overall commitment to their programs. If they competitively fund their sports, they won't always be down.

Bingo! For a school that's committed to improving/maintaining their basketball program, a struggling team is simply the right coach away from becoming a more consistent program. Success breads success.

My $.02 as an App basketball fan:

It has been a struggle recently for our basketball program but we are not that far removed from some good performance on the hardwood. We finished #67 in the RPI in 2007, a not great but respectable #150 in 2008 and #92 in 2010.

There is really no excuse for our hoops performance over the past three seasons. We hired a coach with almost zero experience and while he has recruited fairly well, he's been learning on the job. Jason Capel was not ready to be a DI head coach when he was hired.

However, I do think that we have better days ahead because while he is a work in progress as far as in-game adjustments, Capel has recruited fairly well. Next year is the last season of his contract and will determine whether he is the guy to get us over the hump or not. If he does not have a successful season in 2014, whoever we bring in will have some good young talent to work with.

I'm confident that our football and baseball programs can be contributors from the start and if the rumors of our move to the Sun Belt are true, I don't think it is lost on our administration that men's basketball is the are that needs immediate improvement. We have a nice basketball facility and per the most recent athletic facilities enhancement plan, further basketball facilities upgrades are in the works.

(03-09-2013 11:52 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 11:47 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  a win or loss against a low RPI Division I will bring your RPI down, even if you win it.

I'm just saying, I don't know if that's necessarily true. Yes, I think it hurts your SOS, but I think the effect is negligible in the RPI - and if anything - win helps your rpi since your own w-l record is a part of the rpi.

Your RPI has to be pretty low (low enough for any of our teams to consider it "low") for it to rise after beating a 200+ RPI team. W-L counts, but if you're looking for an exhibition game your RPI is better off with a Div. 2 team.

If rumors are true, and we do have an invite then this may catch some attention. We just let out head coach go. Looks like we can start getting our program turned back around.

Statesboro Herald ‏@boroherald
GSU to discuss men's basketball "change in leadership" at Tuesday presser Athletics Director Tom Kleinlein will... http://fb.me/2it3rMJ3N

The only chance any SBC school that actually cares about basketball is to go to a a 14-16 game schedule.

We get to see what a 20 game schedule does...gives the conference a bunch of average teams. SBC average not RPI average and that is a huge difference. Really limits the better schools from scheduling a OOC schedule that set you up for a higher seed or at large bid.

No matter what conference you play in (best to the lowest) it's going to be harder winning against conference schools than other schools with the same low rpi. That's just the beast of conference play and it set you up to lose the RPI battle. Conference foes know you better than the OOC foes which is why you will see a top 2 or 3 conference school lose to a ULM with a 300+ rpi but most likely beat another team OOC with a similar RPI.

(03-12-2013 05:25 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  The only chance any SBC school that actually cares about basketball is to go to a a 14-16 game schedule.

We get to see what a 20 game schedule does...gives the conference a bunch of average teams. SBC average not RPI average and that is a huge difference. Really limits the better schools from scheduling a OOC schedule that set you up for a higher seed or at large bid.

No matter what conference you play in (best to the lowest) it's going to be harder winning against conference schools than other schools with the same low rpi. That's just the beast of conference play and it set you up to lose the RPI battle. Conference foes know you better than the OOC foes which is why you will see a top 2 or 3 conference school lose to a ULM with a 300+ rpi but most likely beat another team OOC with a similar RPI.

This is SO true.