(03-06-2013 08:06 PM)LouPower Wrote:  Like I said earlier, they're completely ignoring this season. It does not matter.

Just ask them.

Hell ill gladly ignore this season. Slu without this or last year still averages out to a top 100 rpi team. If you remove all of their NCAA appearance ever they are still a top 100 rpi team, and one that played in major conferences with multiple ranked teams. Take away SLU's best season they still compete with the C7

If you give VCU the final four season. They are still a CAA team that had one good run in a tournament. There is nothing special about them or their history that shows that they can compete long term with the C7 + even if you include their best seasons.

(03-06-2013 08:17 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Hell ill gladly ignore this season. Slu without this or last year still averages out to a top 100 rpi team. If you remove all of their NCAA appearance ever they are still a top 100 rpi team, and one that played in major conferences with multiple ranked teams. Take away SLU's best season they still compete with the C7

If you give VCU the final four season. They are still a CAA team that had one good run in a tournament. There is nothing special about them or their history that shows that they can compete long term with the C7 + even if you include their best seasons.

Again, postseason success is more important. No one would care about Butler winning the Horizon league every year without their back-to-back runs to the title game. People aren't going to remember the 2011 Big East champion, but they are going to remember that UConn won it all.

And you cannot say that VCU has just one good run in the tournament. That is simply factually incorrect, as I've shown a couple times already.

Nah it was just 85 SOS after the final four run it was over 100 at the end of the Reg Season

I wouldn't say seemless. Joes got screwed in Richmond, and X was crushing them by double digits until VCU gave X's point guard a concussion. Crushed by SLU and Richmond 1. Loosing to Richmond now, lost to lasalle, still has to play Temple at temple. So they will most likely have 5 losses.

Top that off they have only the 10th best defense in the league. They run up the score a bit though but don't seem to get any points against the teams with better defenses.

Which leads me to question if VCU looses to night and to Temple and then in the first round in Brooklyn and end up in the NIT - do you still want them or is this now a sign of the regression from their one good season?

(03-06-2013 08:24 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:17 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Hell ill gladly ignore this season. Slu without this or last year still averages out to a top 100 rpi team. If you remove all of their NCAA appearance ever they are still a top 100 rpi team, and one that played in major conferences with multiple ranked teams. Take away SLU's best season they still compete with the C7

If you give VCU the final four season. They are still a CAA team that had one good run in a tournament. There is nothing special about them or their history that shows that they can compete long term with the C7 + even if you include their best seasons.

Again, postseason success is more important. No one would care about Butler winning the Horizon league every year without their back-to-back runs to the title game. People aren't going to remember the 2011 Big East champion, but they are going to remember that UConn won it all.

And you cannot say that VCU has just one good run in the tournament. That is simply factually incorrect, as I've shown a couple times already.

So what other good run have they had other than last years 16 with the same team as the final four? What are you going to do when they all graduate? Does winning the sunbelt and a play in game win make a good run?

(03-06-2013 08:26 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Nah it was just 85 SOS after the final four run it was over 100 at the end of the Reg Season

I wouldn't say seemless. Joes got screwed in Richmond, and X was crushing them by double digits until VCU gave X's point guard a concussion. Crushed by SLU and Richmond 1. Loosing to Richmond now, lost to lasalle, still has to play Temple at temple. So they will most likely have 5 losses.

Top that off they have only the 10th best defense in the league. They run up the score a bit though but don't seem to get any points against the teams with better defenses.

Which leads me to question if VCU looses to night and to Temple and then in the first round in Brooklyn and end up in the NIT - do you still want them or is this now a sign of the regression from their one good season?

Nope, the SOS you see is after the end of the Regular season.

even if they lost out VCU has done enough to make the tourney now. 23 wins top 60 schedule- that gets you in the tourney every time.

(03-06-2013 08:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:26 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Nah it was just 85 SOS after the final four run it was over 100 at the end of the Reg Season

I wouldn't say seemless. Joes got screwed in Richmond, and X was crushing them by double digits until VCU gave X's point guard a concussion. Crushed by SLU and Richmond 1. Loosing to Richmond now, lost to lasalle, still has to play Temple at temple. So they will most likely have 5 losses.

Top that off they have only the 10th best defense in the league. They run up the score a bit though but don't seem to get any points against the teams with better defenses.

Which leads me to question if VCU looses to night and to Temple and then in the first round in Brooklyn and end up in the NIT - do you still want them or is this now a sign of the regression from their one good season?

Nope, the SOS you see is after the end of the Regular season.

even if they lost out VCU has done enough to make the tourney now. 23 wins top 60 schedule- that gets you in the tourney every time.

Not even the worst football bias screws that resume.

(03-06-2013 08:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:26 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Nah it was just 85 SOS after the final four run it was over 100 at the end of the Reg Season

I wouldn't say seemless. Joes got screwed in Richmond, and X was crushing them by double digits until VCU gave X's point guard a concussion. Crushed by SLU and Richmond 1. Loosing to Richmond now, lost to lasalle, still has to play Temple at temple. So they will most likely have 5 losses.

Top that off they have only the 10th best defense in the league. They run up the score a bit though but don't seem to get any points against the teams with better defenses.

Which leads me to question if VCU looses to night and to Temple and then in the first round in Brooklyn and end up in the NIT - do you still want them or is this now a sign of the regression from their one good season?

Nope, the SOS you see is after the end of the Regular season.

even if they lost out VCU has done enough to make the tourney now. 23 wins top 60 schedule- that gets you in the tourney every time.

I thought they updated it... but i stand corrected if I am wrong. then they do have one true year in the past 20 under 100 SOS.

I dunno VCU would have 23 wins but an RPI in the 50s that is serious bubble. Just who were those wins against only 4 wins in the top 100 RPI!!!

(03-06-2013 07:53 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 07:48 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 07:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 07:45 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Fair enough... obviously you think that in order to compete over the long haul what you need is to have accomplished some basketball achievement of "note", to you having one good season is enough to show that a team could compete in the future. My question is this if SLU, Creighton , or hell Dayton goes to the final four this year do they now become guaranteed long term competitiveness. For me i say no. I would not be swayed by a one year anomaly. give me a team that has show it can put up a long term winning percentage against high level opponents. I'll leave it at that.

Hate to break it to you- but the Horizon and CAA are equal conferences. So are you worried about Butler?

I can show you 5 years of Butler success against high level competition. Who did VCU beat this year? Butler beat Indiana and Marquette.

Well Butler for one....

And Memphis and Belmont(2 top 25 teams in the RPI).

Right now Butler has a 17 spot lead in SOS. After this week- projected to be down to about a 10-11 spot gap.

Butler, Memphis and Belmont is your proof that VCU can have success against high level competition.

(03-06-2013 08:40 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:26 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Nah it was just 85 SOS after the final four run it was over 100 at the end of the Reg Season

I wouldn't say seemless. Joes got screwed in Richmond, and X was crushing them by double digits until VCU gave X's point guard a concussion. Crushed by SLU and Richmond 1. Loosing to Richmond now, lost to lasalle, still has to play Temple at temple. So they will most likely have 5 losses.

Top that off they have only the 10th best defense in the league. They run up the score a bit though but don't seem to get any points against the teams with better defenses.

Which leads me to question if VCU looses to night and to Temple and then in the first round in Brooklyn and end up in the NIT - do you still want them or is this now a sign of the regression from their one good season?

Nope, the SOS you see is after the end of the Regular season.

even if they lost out VCU has done enough to make the tourney now. 23 wins top 60 schedule- that gets you in the tourney every time.

I thought they updated it... but i stand corrected if I am wrong. then they do have one true year in the past 20 under 100 SOS.

I dunno VCU would have 23 wins but an RPI in the 50s that is serious bubble. Just who were those wins against only 4 wins in the top 100 RPI!!!

with this year and 93-94 and 94-95, it'd be 3 years in 20 under 100 sos.

RPI wouldn't with the teams they'd be playing go up 20 spots.

looking at real time RPI right now- 8 top 100 wins. Belmont, Memphis, Alabama, St Joseph's, Charlotte, UMass, Xavier, and Butler.

(03-06-2013 08:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:40 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:26 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Nah it was just 85 SOS after the final four run it was over 100 at the end of the Reg Season

I wouldn't say seemless. Joes got screwed in Richmond, and X was crushing them by double digits until VCU gave X's point guard a concussion. Crushed by SLU and Richmond 1. Loosing to Richmond now, lost to lasalle, still has to play Temple at temple. So they will most likely have 5 losses.

Top that off they have only the 10th best defense in the league. They run up the score a bit though but don't seem to get any points against the teams with better defenses.

Which leads me to question if VCU looses to night and to Temple and then in the first round in Brooklyn and end up in the NIT - do you still want them or is this now a sign of the regression from their one good season?

Nope, the SOS you see is after the end of the Regular season.

even if they lost out VCU has done enough to make the tourney now. 23 wins top 60 schedule- that gets you in the tourney every time.

I thought they updated it... but i stand corrected if I am wrong. then they do have one true year in the past 20 under 100 SOS.

I dunno VCU would have 23 wins but an RPI in the 50s that is serious bubble. Just who were those wins against only 4 wins in the top 100 RPI!!!

with this year and 93-94 and 94-95, it'd be 3 years in 20 under 100 sos.

RPI wouldn't with the teams they'd be playing go up 20 spots.

looking at real time RPI right now- 8 top 100 wins. Belmont, Memphis, Alabama, St Joseph's, Charlotte, UMass, Xavier, and Butler.

My bad typo on my part 3 top 50 wins... i was looking at one thing typing another...

But to the point 3 in 20 vs 1 in 18 doesn't that give you some concern about the level of opponents they were playing? I mean Drexel has very similar numbers and your not considering Drexel are you? And if you did put Drexel in the league wouldn't you be concerned that they could put up the same number of wins?

That said this looks to be a mute point... reports in are Butler, Xavier, Slu, Dayton, and Creighton.

This thread is closed. All VCU talk can be directed to the new VCU Talk thread. Keep all VCU conversations limited to that thread. No need to have the same conversation in multiple threads.

(03-06-2013 08:00 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Listen i'm not knocking VCU like you guys are knocking SLU. That final four run was awesome. Hell i hate duke, im glad they beat them too. but other than those few things what have they done? they have muddled around low ranking conferences.

The Sun Belt was not a low-ranking conference in the 1980s. They had UAB, who went to the Sweet 16 in 1981 and the Elite 8 in 1982, they had VCU, WKU and Old Dominion all going to the tournament multiple times and getting to the second round. It was a 2-bid league on average.

Quote:SLU has always played against the best and has a winning record doing so. There is no reason to think that a switch to the c7 will change that- as good as you guys think you are your no different that what we have been playing over the years. Therefore at worst SLU will compete.

This is true.

Quote:VCU has never had long standing success outside of playing in minor conferences.

11 tournament bids in 30-odd years, 5 NCAA wins not counting 2011.

Quote:They rarely if ever play a SOS under 100.

You've been challenged on this. Source?

Quote:I'm saying at worst SLU will compete - dayton will compete- Creighton will compete -

No, at worst, one or more of these schools will fall flat on their faces and Depaul all over the conference. Do you have any data suggesting that SLU is a better add in 2013 than DePaul was in 2003?

Quote:VCU has only recently been able to do so. in fact this is there first reg season in 20 years with a SOS under 100. This is VCU at their best .

Again, your SOS numbers have been challenged.

[quote]If you want to build a strong league you get teams that at their worst can compete with you. Not some team that outside of an at best 5 year period you would have used as a buy game.

I don't think you use tournament teams as buy games. And for the past 35 years, VCU has averaged one bid every 3 years.